Mini 2273: Science Diagrams That Look Like Shitposts 2 [END]

[Alexcellent]

What's up diggity dawgs?
VOTE: Not_Mafia I got a good feeling about this wagon

[Alexcellent]

Hi peeps. I'm new here.

Do you know each other and respective playstyles well?

Not I. I haven't played here in about 2 years. I tend to play a few games and disappear for a few years at a time. Although I feeeel like I might've played with Not_Mafia before?

Do you have much mafia experience off-site, Vivax?

[Alexcellent]

Gettin scum feels from George Bayleys series of posts as entrance.
Leaving it at that.

May I enquire what gives you the scummy vibes? Also why not vote for George?

[Alexcellent]

Crescent and Gibus are scum together, got it

[Alexcellent]

One thing I will add is the guy who voted me is probably town. I tend to be a magnet for unexplained early votes from people who haven't played with me before, and they're almost always town. It's why I got sus of Gamma last game for openly townreading me for no given reason in the first 60.

I do find this interesting, tbh. Why do you think you are a target for unexplained early votes?
Also, with your previous games off-site, do they tend to have RVS or is that not usual for your games?

[Alexcellent]

Gettin scum feels from George Bayleys series of posts as entrance.
Leaving it at that.

May I enquire what gives you the scummy vibes? Also why not vote for George?

He deliberately split the posts (or in other words, spammed), that looks to me like he tried too hard to appear casual during his joke entrance.
I'm not willing to vote just for that early in the game. We've got time, and instant majority lynch.

I technically did the same thing. I often think of something extra to say after I've already posted something and end up double or triple posting (which I've already done this game, and is part of why my post count was easily #1 in MN2272) One of the fluff posts was baited by a fluff post of mine.

It feels like both a lazy reason and a reason that should include me given I played right into it.

I don't think you did the same thing at all. You replied to a question, then in the next post added something you remembered afterwards. That's not the same as trying hard to appear casual. If anything your intention was to be or appear cooperative.

That said, I think that you are too eager to draw parallels here and assume that Bayley doesn't deserve a finger of suspicion, so if that's Alexcellents reason to call you mafia (which I don't know but if I had one, that'd be it), I think that's a decent reason.

Tbf I was mostly joking when I called her mafia -- but I did/do find it odd to give someone a pass as being probably town there with the limited amount of info out there.
At the same time I'm not getting overly strong scummy vibes from that read at this point.

[Alexcellent]

There is one player in particular that I'd consider voting for but the reason is so moonlogic that the chance of the read being right would be as accurate as voting randomly, so not helpful at all.

Why not vote anyway? Surely your vote has more worth on someone - even if the reasoning is weak - than just nursing it.

[Alexcellent]

Not voting (7): geraintm, GoldfishFromTheMoon, Vivax, Elsa Jay, Eiralox, Crescent, Corwinoid

Scum is in here somewhere

[Alexcellent]

We can always do the age old "vote out whoever posts last" thing. That's worked out before.

I have mixed feelings on this

I don't like political eliminations, but I've experienced incredibly difficult games due to absent players.

It'd be a hemorrhagic pleasure not have to deal with that again, although I still prefer to play the traditional way and eliminate scum if viable.

Bad vibes from this post

I consider it a really bad sign that a 2 day old game is already talking about inactive hunting. This doesn't feel like a discussion that has a place this early in a day.

I like this

[Alexcellent]

Normally strong personalities bust heads first instead and lead to the players taking sides. Generally though it's not 100 percent best for just getting lurkers because even now you listed 4 people and in a 13p game there's 3 scum. So a town lurker already.

But yeah it's still my main plan for now to try and find scum among the low posters first. Or at least force activity. But if you see one of the middle posters not doing anything let me know too.

5 days to solve a game. This'll be fun.

When do you intend to enact this plan of finding scum?

UNVOTE: Not_Mafia
VOTE: Elsa Jay

[Alexcellent]

Not voting (7): geraintm, GoldfishFromTheMoon, Vivax, Elsa Jay, Eiralox, Crescent, Corwinoid

Scum is in here somewhere

Also kinda a stupid thing to do in accusing people who didn't wanna RVS and call them scum. Unnecessary shade there.

Huh?

[Alexcellent]

Not voting (7): geraintm, GoldfishFromTheMoon, Vivax, Elsa Jay, Eiralox, Crescent, Corwinoid

Scum is in here somewhere

It'd be unlikely if there wasn't scum in 7 random people.

Normally strong personalities bust heads first instead and lead to the players taking sides. Generally though it's not 100 percent best for just getting lurkers because even now you listed 4 people and in a 13p game there's 3 scum. So a town lurker already.

But yeah it's still my main plan for now to try and find scum among the low posters first. Or at least force activity. But if you see one of the middle posters not doing anything let me know too.

5 days to solve a game. This'll be fun.

When do you intend to enact this plan of finding scum?

UNVOTE: Not_Mafia
VOTE: Elsa Jay

This is a very awkward progression. Why are you voting Elsa for trying to curb the low activity?

VOTE: Alexcellent

Because she wants interaction but is doing little to create it (at least any that contributes to finding mafia). She isn't asking questions or applying any pressure. 57 reads as though she wants others to do it for her. She is just setting up a policy elimination for a few RL days from now rather than searching for scum, which makes me think either scum or lazy town.
Because 71 suggests there are already posts she apparently dislikes but she's still not actually applying pressure or doing anything other than bringing them up and moving on.
Curbing low activity would be great but there's something that doesn't feel overly genuine to me. I

do

get that the day is going to be short and the lack of early activity does suck. But there's already content here that she is disregarding in favour of going after people who've yet to really say much (i.e.

easy targets

). I'm in the camp of it being too soon to discuss eliminating lurkers when no one has even been prodded yet. If you want to say "let's eliminate a lurker if we can't agree on something" in a few days, then fine, but do something in the meantime that actually applies pressure.
Her vote on me stinks but at least it's better than her passively waiting for other people to play the game for her.

[Alexcellent]

Not voting (7): geraintm, GoldfishFromTheMoon, Vivax, Elsa Jay, Eiralox, Crescent, Corwinoid

Scum is in here somewhere

Also kinda a stupid thing to do in accusing people who didn't wanna RVS and call them scum. Unnecessary shade there.

Huh?

Mathematically it makes sense that there are scum in there because of the sheer number of pieole, but what you said doesn't make sense because you are insinuating that there is a link between not voting in RVS and being scum which isn't true.

A better way to have worded my post would have been "I am uncomfortable with the amount of people sitting on their votes and doing nothing, and find it to be suspicious". But also that just might be me being pigheaded about people not playing the way I expect.

[Alexcellent]

Actually to correct myself from few posts back, I missed that everyone's posted so no prods would be imminent

[Alexcellent]

I mean. When we get those lurkers to post, hopefully. If you wanna fight we can do that. I'm about to fall asleep though so it'll be later.

Let's not call it a fight but a friendly debate.

But also, you don't find value in trying to sort the people who are actively posting in the meantime?

[Alexcellent]

@Gibus, how do you feel about other non-cat people in this game? What is your view on the idea of eliminating a lurky player D1?
And can I interest you in another wagon? There's a new and small one on Elsa but I'm a dog person so you'll be welcome. There is also one on me which you can join and has more people but I unfortunately cannot confirm their favourite animals.

[Alexcellent]

Sick

[Alexcellent]

Us dog people look out for each other

[Alexcellent]

What are your thoughts on the last page or so, Goldfish?
I know you didn't seem to like my whole 81 but what about everything else (me vs Elsa etc). Any reads on anyone yet?

P-edit:

Birds are alright, except for magpies, whom are spawn of the devil

[Alexcellent]

[Alexcellent]

@Elsa --- sum hav town read u for inactive-pointing, should I?

alternatives:
--- u know one or more scum are among inactives, so creating an early distance can aid u in long run.
---- u know one or more scum are among inactives, so your attempts to get them posting are not to aid town but to lessen their sussyness

so the reason some have greened you is the exact reason i'm waryish

I mean that's there perogative to do. People are also scumreading me for it, so it's not like I said a universally liked thing that only would be for townreads.

For your first alternative and your second one for that matter, why in the world would I say it out loud in the main thread for my "teammates" to see?

Scum always have a thread of their own and the Mod confirmed in their rule post that private threads get daychat too.

Kind of liking Eiralox as town for this reason. Feels like a slight townslip if that's a thing.

[Alexcellent]

I'm here, I'm keeping up on things but I've been busy lately also. I'm consciously trying to observe more and drive a little less this game than I have in previous ones while I shake the rust off.

Well. This is an awful apologetic self-conscious post considering the timing and that there's quite a bit to go with already. I'm surprised I got to point that out first.
Somehow you're consciously trying to observe more but you miss to comment on things that seem relevant to many others?

VOTE: Corwinoid

I found Corwinoid's whole observing more thing to be kinda null. Maybe not the most pro-town thing in the world but doesn't feel super scummy either.
Do you have thoughts on others in this game, Vivax? Thoughts on George changed at all from before?

[Alexcellent]

Kind of liking Eiralox as town for this reason. Feels like a slight townslip if that's a thing.

I'd believe this if the account wasn't from 2016, but this feels like such an easy townslip to manufacture.

If you look at Eiralax they have only played 2 newbie games, both from 2016, and nothing since then. And back then newbie games had no daytalk for scum (I believe). Sure it could be manufactured but I'm viewing it as a pretty strong sign that they're likely town.

[Alexcellent]

So to analyze more: Alex's vote on Elsa feels awkward but doesn't particularly come off as scummy. Seems like a "put up or shut up" kind of vote when scum in that situation could've made a much easier vote and gone a lot more under the radar. Unless that's Alex's game it seems like something that just pulls attention.

Alex/Elsa can be T/T but something about the exchange between felt really off.

Can you specify a bit more about what felt off?

[Alexcellent]

Think Elsa/Clidd is where I'd prefer to lynch but starting to doubt my Elsa read, idk. Feeling a bit less okay about Crescent. I'll post more tomorrow.

[Alexcellent]

@alex - the L word is banned on this site.

Oops sorry, my bad

[Alexcellent]

So to analyze more: Alex's vote on Elsa feels awkward but doesn't particularly come off as scummy. Seems like a "put up or shut up" kind of vote when scum in that situation could've made a much easier vote and gone a lot more under the radar. Unless that's Alex's game it seems like something that just pulls attention.

Alex/Elsa can be T/T but something about the exchange between felt really off.

Can you specify a bit more about what felt off?

I think part of it is the pronoun "her" in 79 threw me for a bit because I dropped the context for it, so I thought you were referring to Elsa. George was right that your vote seems oddly placed there. And then she signs off with the OMGUS/"Riddle that vote" post, which goes from 74 that seemed like a mellow promoting activity and avoiding division to 87 a couple of hours later where she's looking for a fight.

I think it's making a mountain out of a mole hill though, I think her progression is more organic than I thought, and I think I misread or was confused by your posts starting the exchange because of the context change.

I think I am conflicted with her reaction to me. I agree on the OMGUS vibe from her vote and she overall came off as very defensive, but I'm not sure if it's town defensiveness or scum defensiveness. Part of me is starting to think that maybe she's just town with a different approach to the game which is leading to me scumreading her, idk.

Think Elsa/Clidd is where I'd prefer to lynch but starting to doubt my Elsa read, idk. Feeling a bit less okay about Crescent. I'll post more tomorrow.

Tell me more about clidd, I'm not seeing it. ELI5.

It's loose but his posts unsettle me a bit. 58 is a bit meh, mentioning a possible slight scumread but he doesn't want to vote on it or talk about it. It just feels like pointless words, but probably not overly alignment indicative.62 put me off a lot, his reaction to Elsa's proposition of eliminating lurkers. It's just very wishwashy and fencesitty and not really committing to an answer. Just comes off as wordy and non-committal, like he's trying to keep his options open. I don't really understand his scum read on Geraintm. Maybe it's coming from a meta read but it just feels a little bit forced to me.

[Alexcellent]

@Crescent, more just for my curiosity - why do you barely ever vote? I'm more just trying to understand the logic behind it and your playstyle

[Alexcellent]

Ugh. Clidd's postings over the last few pages feel a bit more town to me now.
If there's scum in the Eiralox/Crescent back and forth it's Crescent, IMO. But I can see it being town/town.

@Elsa, do you feel better about UNOWen at all since they've made a few more posts?

[Alexcellent]

So basically just ignore his existence and hope he's town.

Never been sure why that kind of player even bothers to sign up.

You could say that it tips the scale a bit in favour of mafia. And it allows them to play scum with low effort.
It‘s sort of acceptable imo as long as the voting is towards win con and it‘s few playing like that.

I‘ll probs change my vote to GB later on.

I think you're right, it does tip towards mafia, and I don't think it's acceptable regardless of how voting is done.

I'm going to summon the deamon
VOTE: Not_Mafia
This is a prod vote, not an indication I think U are scum.

I think you undercut the strength of your vote when you tell the target that it's not serious.
But I'm gonna sheep this anyway.

UNVOTE: Elsa
VOTE: Not_Mafia

Content plz Not_Mafia, otherwise happy to eliminate.

[Alexcellent]

He seriously just put names in random order on a rainbow font while of course putting himself at the bottom.

Why do you people even let this guy sign up for games? How do you read such nonsense

I mean, these could actually be his reads and he's just thrown his own name in for the lols

But also, could just be trolling.

[Alexcellent]

Tbh the big push on Gibus feels bad. His ISO is lacking but I don't see anything that screams scum to me.

Also keen to hear from George.

P-Edit: pretty much what Vivax said. Looking forward to the catch up George.

[Alexcellent]

Crescent and Gibus are scum together, got it

Alexcellent,

considering the thread as it is now, is this pairing more or less probable since start of day one?

I was mainly joking there at the start, but less probable, IMO.
Feels like an unnecessary bus from Cres if they were both scum, given her whole spiel about how she rarely changes her vote after she makes it.

P-Edit: ... and she just unvoted. Nevermind.

[Alexcellent]

Tbh the big push on Gibus feels bad. His ISO is lacking but I don't see anything that screams scum to me.

Also keen to hear from George.

P-Edit: pretty much what Vivax said. Looking forward to the catch up George.

I went with the one who already had a vote. I didn't realize George also had one but I didn't want to split the votes any further.

But.... It did it's job, and got BOTH of them to post. My desire to kill George is still higher than my desire to kill Gibus.

UNVOTE: Gibus

K, I just don't understand this or the motive behind it. Gibus isn't at any risk of immediate elimination, like there's no risk he's going to quickly be rushed to a hammer.
Are you genuinely happy with the content Gibus has provided since you voted him? What happens if he stops posting again, do you vote him again? Like I dunno if this is scummy or just perplexing to me.
Maybe it's a playstyle thing but it feels a lot more like you're being very careful and anxious about what wagon you're on.

Can I have your reads, please, Crescent?

[Alexcellent]

Thanks for your reads. It's good to get things summed up.

Goldfish/Unowen/Vivax are absent from that post, any thoughts on them?

[Alexcellent]

@Crescent, why were you concerned about not splitting the votes earlier if you had no intention of eliminating Gibus and were going to unvote him anyway?

[Alexcellent]

Apologies for the continued grilling of your voting, but I'm trying to figure out if you're scum or if you're town that just has a wildly different playstyle than I'm used to

[Alexcellent]

I don’t know who Scorpious is

P-edit: Fair, I’ll leave this alone now. I got just very bad vibes from your unvote, but I’ll accept prob just different approach for now

[Alexcellent]

I think I’m starting to lean away from NM wagon.
Will wait to see what George has to say, and wouldn’t mind seeing more from Goldfish

P-Edit: he sounds like a smart bloke

[Alexcellent]

Like, if people are too lazy to compare all of GB's 27 posts last game to his all of 9 here then that's on them. This is... 3? 5? minutes of work apparently no one in the game wants to put in. It's honestly kind of pathetic.

A lot of people just don't give a shit about games they're not in.

Remember when Titus kept telling people to read Titus v Alisae to justify her posting?

^^^

[Alexcellent]

@George, what do you think of Crescent's voting?

[Alexcellent]

While i disagree with Alex's read on Elsa, I think his defense comes from a townie perspective.

VOTE: Geraintm

Geraint is my best bet for scum, he's been suggesting anti-town behavior and is actively doing anti-town things. Like:

my vote for clidd was purely random

and

We have less than 3 days left and an 8-way vote split. This is a

nightmare scenario

for town. We have virtually no control over who gets voted off like this and no way of actually pressuring anyone.

I said this immediately when I saw how split the vote is. If you're town and not alarmed by that vote spread that's a you problem.

It doesnt matter who scum is. They've loved how this day has progressed so far. This goes double if NM is town.

then lets just no vote, that surely has to be better than what you are expecting to happen

Literally voting at random is better than a no-vote. No-votes give us absolutely no information.

My problem with Gera is anti-town =/= scum. Only thing of his that feels very gross is his mention of a no elimination today.

[Alexcellent]

Phone posting
I don’t think Corwin is scum. I think Vivax/Corwin is town/town
I agree with Elsa’s remarks about Crescent
Going to have a proper reread of somethings when I get home but i feel like Goldfish/Unowen are flying under the radar a bit

[Alexcellent]

UNVOTE: Not_Mafia

@Unowen, can you expand on your Corwin read? I'm not getting it

[Alexcellent]

Going to get caught up, sorry for lack of postings in last few days
Gut has been going more towards an Owen vote tbh but I'll take a look at this case on Corwin. Have been feeling like he's town though.

[Alexcellent]

Quick post first, l try and throw out some very general reads.

Eiralox is strong town read.
Vivax feels town. I dunno about Crescent, keep flip-flopping there a lot, but her frustration with the game does feel unlikely to come from scum. Gibus is kind of a very slight town read but I think that comes more from how other people have reacted to him.
My town read on Corwin has come more from some early game stuff. 78 - it's hard for me to see scum outright coming out and saying "I'm gonna lurk this game", and then his explanation 196 kind of made sense to me why town!Corwin would play the way he is? Having said that it isn't a strong read and I'll take another look into this case.
Null on Gera, George and Clidd. Slight scum lean on Elsa, a lot based on her push for policy eliminations and defensiveness but that could also come from town.
Feeling scum towards Unowen and Goldfish. Uno feels like he voted Corwin then tried to amass reasons for the vote after the fact, that or maybe he's suffering tunnel vision. Tbh I don't like Goldfish's ISO. Lack of independent scumhunting and a lot of empty posts and what I'd consider, I guess, safe votes.
Not_Mafia is Not_Mafia, nil read.

TBH think I'd vote Goldfish and prefer that wagon if it weren't this late in the day and with this many split votes

Will continue catching up

[Alexcellent]

The only thing I'm actually curious about in everything that happened is why NM voted for GB. GB is now more of a null to me, but his vote is in the right spot.

Given it came with no context at all, was it even a serious vote?

Only person who knows this is NM and I doubt they will give a real answer if asked. Could be town with a genuine scum read on George, or he could've picked a name out of a hat.

The host being in that pile is either a total ADHD moment by town, or it's a major gaffe by scum just pulling names out of a hat to order randomly and accidentally including the host.

Now to somehow figure out which..

Concur with this. I'm not even really sure how the mod gets accidentally added to a reads list unless Elsa is not really thinking about them at all.

[Alexcellent]

How in the hell do you go from me asking someone to make a plain point so we're on the same page and now things, to me suggest we "keep knowing nothing"?

Because you still didn't post a read on GeorgeBayley. Your main goal seems to dismiss arguments, not build them.

Kinda liking this

Buuuuut it also still does absolutely nothing concerning the original reason I called you scum to begin with aka ignoring 150 posts of conversation just to pick out and shade the lowest hanging fruit among all of it.

It does weaken the overall argument, though.

This feels like moving the goal posts a bit.

[Alexcellent]

Thank God someone noticed it after 400 posts. I was gonna townread anyone who noticed it but nobody read my read list. It was "remade" with updated reads too.

If NotMaf can put himself at the bottom, I can put people not even in the game in my readlist. I like trolling too, just not to the extent of others.

[Alexcellent]

VOTE: UNOwen

VOTE: Owen

Yuck

[Alexcellent]

Love that Ger completely ignored my initial and still valid reason for voting him, "locked" his vote on me on false pretenses, and ran from the game.

This feels scummy or bad town

[Alexcellent]

VOTE: Vivax

I hate being confident on D1, but I'm very feeling Vivax/UNOwen/?? as a team right now.

Alright I'm just not feeling this. It feels like a weird team to push as scum though?? At this instant (still catching up), Corwin feels like tunnel vision town.

[Alexcellent]

Like there are so many easier targets to dump a vote on if Corwin is scum. Unless he's hoping people ignore it and eliminate someone else and he can coast by without being on a miselim? Idk

[Alexcellent]

Like there are so many easier targets to dump a vote on if Corwin is scum. Unless he's hoping people ignore it and eliminate someone else and he can coast by without being on a miselim? Idk

You could keep wifoming, or you could see that he's calling me mafia for the jester thingy and not getting the reasons straight at that.
He didn't simply dump a vote, and I don't see why you'd be more convinced he was mafia if he picked an easier target.

I'm not WIFOMing, I find it hard to see the scum there. The jester stuff strikes me as null.

[Alexcellent]

Tbh, between Corwin and Uno, I'd probably vote Corwin due to the info his flip gives. But also I'm uncomfortable with the Uno wagon now. Elsa/Clidd makes me uncomfortable. Skimming their ISOs, neither have really directly interacted with each other. Elsa sheeped Clidd's Owen vote like a minute after. Clidd came in with this wishwashy non-committal agreement to Elsa's policy elimination stuff a few minutes after she posted it. Elsa listed Clidd as a town read, Clidd lists Elsa as a null. Idk, uncomfortable with the whole thing there.

P-Edit: actually yeah, tunnel vision is the wrong phrasing there

[Alexcellent]

We (me and Clidd) did interact earlier on the policy thing. And adding a vote to Owen seemed right since (again) we're in the final day so I was getting a wagon on my scumread.

I was NOT expecting whatever Corwin did. So uh. Guess I may vote there. Still don't know why they didn't just stay on Owen. Isn't it more of a scum benefit to just not do anything there instead of make a stupid argument? Or am I just giving scum Corwin to much credit?

Do agree with this. Which is what I mean. Don't see why scum!Corwin votes town!Vivax there when scum can do literally anything else. Could have kept his vote on NM or on Unowen with no probs. Feels more likely town with bad argument than scum pushing something.

[Alexcellent]

We (me and Clidd) did interact earlier on the policy thing. And adding a vote to Owen seemed right since (again) we're in the final day so I was getting a wagon on my scumread.

I was NOT expecting whatever Corwin did. So uh. Guess I may vote there. Still don't know why they didn't just stay on Owen. Isn't it more of a scum benefit to just not do anything there instead of make a stupid argument? Or am I just giving scum Corwin to much credit?

Do agree with this. Which is what I mean. Don't see why scum!Corwin votes town!Vivax there when scum can do literally anything else. Could have kept his vote on NM or on Unowen with no probs. Feels more likely town with bad argument than scum pushing something.

Why does town have no reaction whatsoever to two people voting for the same person they're voting for?

I don't understand this sentence

[Alexcellent]

Speaking of Gibus, I do find it interesting that Gibus' only chiming in on this was a vote ok Corwin with no words.

Would like to see something of his own argument instead of just plopping down vote #4 silently.

Agree

[Alexcellent]

Here's where I'm at. I'm not vibing with the Corwin train. The jester thing is weak but it doesn't scream scum to me. Only thing is most of the people on it (sans Owen) I'm kinda town reading.
If it were between Corwin and Owen, I'd rather get rid of Owen. but I don't like the look of who's pushing the wagon (no offence).

I'd be open to an Elsa or Goldfish elim today, but with 24hrs left doubt that's likely.

VOTE: George Bailey

Not a super strong scum read, but nothing he's done has particularly struck me as town. Dislike that he sort of tried to discredit my townread on Eiralox (back in 183). If NM stops trolling the game, George's flip gives info there.

Think I prefer this over Corwin or Unowen at the moment.

[Alexcellent]

Corwin has some scum motive to bail off of town Owen, too, if he notices those votes, though it would require a bit of forethought in the moment.

A. Those votes were arguably bad, and would reflect poorly on them later, meanwhile his unvote could be taken as disagreeing with the turn the train made, thus looking better. Corwin only had 2 votes himself at this time.
B. Newbie scum is often shy about leading actual train on town rather than just a "vote".
C. Newbie scum is often nervous about being on an early town voteoff because they are afraid it will blow back on them.

I have seen end of day vote spreads a few times where two town were tied, and a newbie scum was hiding as a splinter vote because they were afraid to be on either one and get caught in a green flip.

I mean I guess these are all possible.

Maybe worth noting Corwin's initial post about the jester thing towards Vivax 542 does come before Elsa and Clidd jumped onto the Owen wagon (literally like 2 mins after he posted). But he doesn't actually move his vote to Vivax til a little while after.

[Alexcellent]

I wouldn't be surprised if Owen was mafia tbh.

He had a golden opportunity to add more fuel to the Corwin wagon but just kinda sits there with his vote on him.

Bus bussy.

Corwin, Owen, GB?

I'd be pretty impressed if the top 3 wagons at the moment are all on scum

[Alexcellent]

Love that Ger completely ignored my initial and still valid reason for voting him, "locked" his vote on me on false pretenses, and ran from the game.

This feels scummy or bad town

Quick catch up, looking mostly for when I am mentioned.

Who is scummy, me or Crescent?

Crescent - felt like a needless attempt to throw shade on you and spinning you not being here as "running away". Just felt unnecessary and her wording of it a bit manipulative.

But also pls do a real catch up if you can

[Alexcellent]

Love that Ger completely ignored my initial and still valid reason for voting him, "locked" his vote on me on false pretenses, and ran from the game.

This feels scummy or bad town

Love that Ger completely ignored my initial and still valid reason for voting him, "locked" his vote on me on false pretenses, and ran from the game.

This feels scummy or bad town

Quick catch up, looking mostly for when I am mentioned.

Who is scummy, me or Crescent?

Crescent - felt like a needless attempt to throw shade on you and spinning you not being here as "running away". Just felt unnecessary and her wording of it a bit manipulative.

But also pls do a real catch up if you can

I cant work out Crescent at all, I got very worked up at them last night because nothing I said seemed to get through to them, and even after I left they still were putting in stupid digs like me running away when I have to sleep. They aren't being like this with anyone else
Today they seem to have dropped me as inthjnk they worked out I was not going to get eliminated today, but I still feel like they are going to curclback to me tomorrow.

There is little point in me doing a catch up today, it is day 1. There are a few players who aren't very engaged, some who are over engaged and the sooner we get to day 2 the better as they'll be some night actions to help us.

Yeah idk. I'm still iffy on her. Some arguments she's made seem forced and not great. The Gibus vote and subsequent unvote was weird to me. Earlier in the day she seemed very aware of where the wagons were and very cautious about what wagon she goes on and where she puts her vote which made me think scum. I don't usually see that level of caution and forethought when it comes to who to vote on D1 from town. But her anger and frustration at the game feels genuine and probably coming from town. (unless, out there theory, she's scum and ended up being on a team with NM and Owen or Gibus or something and her anger is coming from having inactive troll partners )
But overall would rather take a closer look tomorrow

Are you planning on changing your vote at all or just leaving it for the day?

[Alexcellent]

@Alex how are you weary of the people on the Corwin wagon but you're fine with mine?

I am more weary of the people on the Owen wagon. But also I feel Eiralox is probs town and Not_Mafia is ???

[Alexcellent]

@alex
Not planning on changing my vote. I said it was locked and I am not going to break that (I hate liars in mafia games, people who lie about roles are thr worst)

I don't like this, I think this is bad, but I respect it

[Alexcellent]

The corwind scumcase looks good, I'll have to read over his ISO but I'm considering putting a vote there.

Goldfish, have you come to a conclusion re Corwin yet??

[Alexcellent]

I'm off to bed and I have family stuff most of tomorrow, may be able to check in here and there from my phone but probably won't be able to post much more before end of day.
Pls eliminate scum.

[Alexcellent]

VOTE: Goldfish

[Alexcellent]

@Not_Mafia, do you become helpful on D2 or can we expect more of the same?

[Alexcellent]

I'm assuming that the scum team didn't actually know Unowen's alignment given he's a traitor

Clidd is an interesting kill. RIP Clidd and George. Sorry for the bad read on you George.
I'm going to have to review some stuff but I sorta felt weird about Clidd/Elsa throughout D1. Not sure how Clidd's death affects things. Elsa is still high up there for me I think.
Def want pressure on Goldfish today. Felt a lot of apprehension and not a lot of scumhunting from her D1.

Nothing super exciting jumps out at me from a glance at Unowen's ISO. He voted Corwin all day long until he hammered George. Maybe worth noting he asked Elsa for an opinion on Corwin and seemed very interested in the answer to the point of repeatedly questioning her. Maybe that's a traitor trying to find out what his scum companion thinks without being able to directly communicate? But also it's admittedly pretty loose. It just kind of jumps out at me because of him repeatedly directing the question her way. And then there's this:

I don't think Elsa suggesting she didn't give me any further thought until now after my lame response to her initial poke is a good sign for her alignment.

Also this is prob worth noting:

I really want to know what your fascination with me is.

I think you're scum.

Does the traitor super bus his scum buddy all D1 long like this? I know this is WIFOMy but I like getting it out into the open. Felt like Owen would have stayed on that wagon and IMO Corwin was at genuine risk of being eliminated yesterday until George wagon got bigger. I feeeeeel like that makes me slightly more leaning town on Corwin. But yeah, WIFOM.

[Alexcellent]

Eiralox, I am too stupid to understand subtext, I just feel it's important for you to know that

[Alexcellent]

I am going based on the wiki https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Traitor

A Traitor is considered Normal on mafiascum.net, as long as it:

is Mafia-aligned
knows the identities of all of the Mafia team

identity is not known by the Mafia team, although they should know a Traitor exists

cannot be recruited to join the rest of the Mafia team, and (unless Bulletproof) is killed if shot
is endgamed if all other Mafia are dead
gives a "guilty" result to Cops, an "innocent" result to Gunsmiths, and a "Traitor" result to Role Cops

It doesn't really say in the reveal Umlaut posted but that's just the assumption I'm working with.

[Alexcellent]

I'm working off the assumption that scum didn't know Owen was on their team, so very possible that they would vote him thinking he's a good miselimination. Although of the 3 people on his wagon at the end of D1, two are confirmed to have been town.

P-edit: No problemos

[Alexcellent]

There's no universe where scum kills Owen there, unless it's for the WIFOM
Or alternatively if there's a setup where scum have 2 factional kills and they feel confident throwing one away but I doubt it
But yeah, I'll stop speculating aloud

And I don't have anything solid on Goldfish, but think it's a good place for a vote

[Alexcellent]

Speaking of which, does anyone know why this image is in Alex's ISO? ^

Makes me kind of sus of Alex tbh. Could have been a covert attempt at rolefishing by posting a fake crumb. If someone became suspicious of Alex afterwards, it'd give him info on possible detectives.
But it's a long shot.

I still think Corwin is mafia fwiw. Hope that Crescent is on the same page as their presence is pivotal in moving the game into one direction (when they aren't tilting and trying to do too much at once).

Out of all possible normal roles, why would scum!me try to rolefish for detectives there, specifically?

[Alexcellent]

Not even. I posted some crappy Sherlock Holmes clipart in response to Geraint calling me Sherlock. It was a failed attempt at humour.

[Alexcellent]

Could just be rolefishing any investigation, and cop is too obvious of a bait. I doubt that was the intent tho. Probably posted that image to show you were looking into something, right?

I just found the wording of Vivax's post interesting but yeah, fair.

P-Edit: The Riddler avatar is a ruse

[Alexcellent]

Oh yeah fo sho. I haven't read a Batman comic for years but Riddler, Mr. Freeze and Two-Face where were it was at for me. And I'm still waiting for the Condiment King to get his own movie damn it.

[Alexcellent]

What makes you think NM is town?

[Alexcellent]

I mean, considering you lived specifically because we jumped onto George for reasons I still don't get, I thought you would rethink your list. Then again since Owen flipped evil (despite being a traitor who main scum wouldn't know he is it) I guess you'll stick to your guns.

Who would be the remaining 2 scum to you?

With a traitor is it 3+1 or 2+1? I have Vivax, I'm not sure who the third is.

Actually this is a question I've been wondering. I would assume 3 scum still but probs with powers to counterbalance the traitor. That or maybe town has some weak powers, idk.

[Alexcellent]

@Corwin, does your scum read on Vivax stem mainly from his questioning if there's a Jester in the game yesterday? Your read seems super strong and unmoving, I'm just not quite so sold as hard on Vivax as scum.

VOTE: Vivax

I hate being confident on D1, but I'm very feeling Vivax/UNOwen/?? as a team right now.

If this team were correct, do you have any ideas who scumlord number 3 may be?

[Alexcellent]

VOTE: Goldfish, Not_Mafia, geraint

Which of these would you prefer to launch, and why?

[Alexcellent]

Part of me thinks Corwin or Vivax wouldn't be a terrible launch for today, they both seem fairly adamant that the other is scum, a flip there would give a fair amount of info. Thing that gives me pause though is that I can see it possibly being T/T. The one positive is that I strongly doubt there's much chance at all that they're both scum.

D1 Vivax voted Corwin, George, back to Corwin, and finally back to George again. At 732 suggested the scum team may be Owen/Corwin/GB.
D1 Corwin voted Geraintm, Not_Mafia, unvoted briefly and then voted Owen, then voted Vivax for the rest of the day. 595 suggested scum team is Owen/Vivax/???

Probably going to go back and re-read those interactions between Corwin/Vivax/Owen.

Will probably wait for others to catch up. Still haven't heard from Crescent, NM and more or less haven't heard from Gibus. Very keen to see Goldfish's analysis.

[Alexcellent]

Thinking out loud again, is there any chance there's a serial killer in the game or is 13p too small for that?

[Alexcellent]

Ah okay, thanks

[Alexcellent]

Yeah, I think I'm launching Vivax before Corwin.

The Goldfish replace out is all kinds of frustrating.

[Alexcellent]

Eiralox D2 is also very different to Eiralox D1.

I would be open to a policy Not_Mafia elimination if we can't reach a majority on someone prior to end of day.

[Alexcellent]

it's different than calling for policy eliminations 5 seconds into the game, also you were calling for a blanket elimination of whoever has the lowest post count. I'm happy to policy launch NM specifically.
I was hoping D2 Not_Mafia does some stuff with more information out there but he's exactly the same as D1 Not_Mafia, so I'd be happy to not see D3 Not_Mafia

But I would ultimately prefer to launch scum where possible. Will wait to see Goldfish's replacement. I still need to go back and read more into Vivax/Corwin

[Alexcellent]

I guess we'll never get the answers I was looking for from Fish now, so I'll stick with my heart.

VOTE: Corwin

At this point it feels like Cres was defending both Owen AND Corwin's actions earlier. Maybe she realized Owen might've been the traitor and didn't want either of her teammates to die so she uses her voice and momentum to switch it onto George.

Now she wants to launch the significantly townier Vivax over Corwin? Nah. Not buying it.

If Corwin flips scum I nearly garuntee Cres is the third who has tried to take hold of the game after realizing her partners were passive.

I keep flip flopping here but yeah I don't trust Cres rn.

Edit: don't agree with just pointing it out for scum to also see but you do you Vivax.

I don't agree with everything in this post but I think the bolded line is not a bad point.

I've been apprehensive about Crescent but wrote most of it off due to differing playstyles. Also her frustration yesterday about the game activity felt kind of genuine which made me feel better about her being town. But there probably IS a scenario where scum!Crescent's only partner is a passive/low-content/troll player (i.e. Not_Mafia/Goldfish etc) and partnered with an unknown traitor, she may have felt the need to flood D1 with activity to make up for not knowing one of her scum partners and maybe another partner not contributing. Her frustration could have come more from feeling the need to carry scum faction in that regard.
Corwin/Cres is a possible team but I don't think Corwin flipping scum would make Cres a lock to also be scum.
Mostly just thinking aloud here.

[Alexcellent]

Actually for what it's worth, I think Cres/Corwin is highly unlikely.
Cres was calling Corwin scum yesterday and had her vote on him and seemed to move to GB fairly reluctantly. Feel like given the lateness of the day that things shifted to GB, Corwin was at pretty genuine risk of being eliminated. Maybe scum buses D1 but in a 13p game where you don't know one of your partners, it's hard to see scum!Cres keen to throw scum!Corwin under the bus yesterday.

[Alexcellent]

I really don't like that people wanna lock in with 5 more days left tho.

Going to sleep. Hope either NotMaf or Toffee post something nice. Or I guess Gera since they seem to be fading out of my mind again.

Cuz we got me Cres and Eira as the loud ones

, Vivax and Corwin at each other's throats, Alex with the funny commentary, and NotMaf Gibus and Toffee as the silent ones.

So uh. Let's try not to forget anybody today. I hope for Thursday all 10 of us contribute something.

Anyway good night.

Have you paid attention to Eira today? Because they have transformed into an off-brand Not_Mafia.

[Alexcellent]

I'm a bit hectic today but should have time to post over the weekend

[Alexcellent]

Sorry for lack of posting y'all, meat world has been busy. I am catching up and will post tonight.

[Alexcellent]

Yeah so catching up on the last 8 pages, just going to post thoughts on things as I see them.

Sorry for the L-word again. It's really hard to adapt when playing on this site and printing your thoughts quickly. 10 years of using it leaves a mark.
I think if you put the first post from Corwin I pinged into a Quiz, most players would think it's a mafia writing it.

I'm here, I'm keeping up on things but I've been busy lately also. I'm consciously trying to observe more and drive a little less this game than I have in previous ones while I shake the rust off.

Tbh I see that Corwin post way more likely to come from town IMO. I can see why others would see scum in it though.

[Alexcellent]

Honestly though, I never even told Vivax to stop pursuing Corwin, which makes the unvote of a vote he never placed kind of even more bizarre. I just told him to stop *only* pursuing Corwin and to talk about something else for a change.

One thing though... If Goldfish is scum, she at least has someone to like, handfeed her an argument in private. I mentioned yesterday that as bad as her nothingness looks, I felt like scum wouldn't allow itself to be so flagrantly useless - Even NM has more content. The posts today just... Show a total lack of any sort of preparation. For her to be scum means her team was doing absolutely nothing to help her out at all, even over the night phase. Those 3 posts were all horrid.

Also. Can we just.. Replace NM out, too?

This is a good point.

Is entirely possible that Goldfish slot is scum and her partner/s are just not talking or contributing. It's also possible that she was very low impact town. Thing that concerned me was her hesitance to vote D1 and when she did vote NM, she made a point to say how it was not serious (i.e. maybe getting herself ready to remove her vote without suspicion if she needed to).

[Alexcellent]

Insulting the mod doesn't help the game Cres. And that's more a private message issue if you legit have issues there.

Oh I've seen it help games before...

Still a bad reason to antagonise a mod.

[Alexcellent]

I'd say that since I'm supposed to do a lot of legwork and I'm reluctant to do that with NM playing the way he does, this should probably be the day we policy-launch him.
If you disagree, feel free to do what you want. But then I'll do what I want too, which is nothing while I have an unreadable slot.

Kind of leaning scum on Vivax at the moment but at the same time I don't disagree with this sentiment.

[Alexcellent]

Did anyone wanna give a summary so far of the events of the game? Not only for Toffee's benefit, but also I guess a review of important things that happened this game and seeing who played what role day one so far.

Are your fingers broken?

[Alexcellent]

So Vivax's 1107 is actually not bad. I don't know that I fully agree with it all? But I don't hate it and there are a few posts Vivax has made over the last few pages that are starting to make me feel town.

Prior to this I felt like Vivax was more interested in self preservation but going after Crescent there is interesting.

That post was remarkably weak for a change of vote. Disappointing. I do enjoy a good dance sometimes, but it's just rehashing posts from the first 50 posts of the game and making points that were already made long ago.

My town vibe on Gibus thinking it was serious directly parallels my suspicion of Gamma for randomly townreading me very early in day 1 without giving a reason in the very last game. This is all already asked and answered stuff.

Now let's review some places where it failed:

A. Rehashing posts that other players scrutinized long ago that I also responded to long ago is not making an actual case. Quoting the same post multiple times in different spots makes it feel worse. I spent the next 100-200 posts getting occasional flak for the very posts you quoted.

B. It didn't explain how a scum combination of Corwin/Owen/Myself makes

any sense whatsoever

. It ignores Owen's existence (as you have done all day except the one moment you tried to use his red flip to say you looked good), and that I'm the only person in the entire game that took Clidd's argument against Gera seriously. Elsa only said Corwin and I would be scum together based on thinking I had voted you when I never did. Both myself and Alex have pointed out how nonsensical Corwin/Myself being scum together would be.

I and Owen would both have to be spending this game bussing like crazy, but here's the rub.

Scum is not going to leave a high volume poster like me alive if I'm mowing down scum. To play this game the way I have if I'm scum with Corwin and Gera is

suicide

. It's actively throwing the game so badly that it's arguably not even playing to win.

Also the defence kinda stinks. Crescent's style of defending herself seems to be throwing shade and discrediting her attackers (I noticed similar in her interactions with Geraint on D1). Also the defence is weak. Like saying you can't make a case out of posts that other people have already discussed as if they can no longer be relevant.

Also how can Owen/Cres be busing on the same scum team. Owen was a traitor...

Scum is not going to leave a high volume poster like me alive if I'm mowing down scum. To play this game the way I have if I'm scum with Corwin and Gera is suicide. It's actively throwing the game so badly that it's arguably not even playing to win.

I've tried to read this from a few different angles and I don't understand what this line is saying.

[Alexcellent]

Please, for the love of god play this game and not the last one. I literally don't care what happened in every other game you've played, and I can't be fucked to go read through every one that you reference to care.

^^

[Alexcellent]

471 This is such an incredibly bad look I can't believe you're even serious. I have 3 finished games, the last was 6 years ago, and I'm open they were my only ones and I bailed because the IC/SEs in my last game decided to metafuck each other instead of playing their game and you're like "I dunno if Corwin is high tier."

Dumb ass play because you've been on my ass for nothing almost almost as bad as UNOwen is, and now it's seriously starting to look like team play.

Here, the team play part is the scum claim. Because he could just have called us mafia.

That was based off these posts:

Won't say who yet but reading the last four pages made 2 people move up in my town list and 1 down. I'm here to interact all day as well.

Where is Corwin on your list and why?

I really want to know what your fascination with me is. Since your RVS vote you haven't even looked anywhere else or engaged meaningfully with any other slot in the game. Seriously, what's going on here?#
VOTE: UNOwen

Won't say who yet but reading the last four pages made 2 people move up in my town list and 1 down. I'm here to interact all day as well.

Where is Corwin on your list and why?

I really want to know what your fascination with me is. Since your RVS vote you haven't even looked anywhere else or engaged meaningfully with any other slot in the game. Seriously, what's going on here?

VOTE: UNOwen

Scummy post.

UNVOTE: GeorgeBailey
VOTE: Corwinoid

If I look at Owens ISO again, I don't think Corwin had to overreact in that way. Crescent was after all still skirting by and Owen not calling her mafia, though he pinged her once.
Best would have just been to ignore the posts and not get emotional.

Emotional players can be town and scum though, I don't feel this is alignment indicative for Corwin.

[Alexcellent]

Unofficial vote count (pretty sure this is correct):

Vivax (4): Eiralox, Not_Mafia, geraintm, Corwinoid
Crescent (1): Vivax
geraintm (1): gibus
BlueBloodedToffee (1): Alexcellent
Corwinoid (1): Elsa Jay
Gibus (1): BlueBloodedToffee

Not voting (1): Crescent

[Alexcellent]

Aiite so, Cres COULD be scum, but I'm not convinced enough to vote. Part of me did wonder if that VLA was scum!Cres reacting to the votes on her but I think (especially with her coming back) that she's very genuinely angry at this game and the town. Dislike how she defends herself and her overall demeanour and ego doesn't do her any favours. But it overall at least

feels

like she's trying to solve the game. She's either town or she's scum with a deadweight partner. I'm inclined to go with the former for now.

Hot and cold on Vivax. I think Corwin is likely town. Something about the wagon on Vivax feels off though. There's an element to some of his posts that feel like he's more interested in self-preservation, which

can

come from town but I find it to be more commonly a scum trait. His flip gives info, but his push on Cres feels like it comes from town. Was hilarious to me though that both Vivax and Corwin joined forces to vote Cres briefly. End of the day I'm leaning towards Vivax/Corwin being T/T.

I'm having a hard time reading Gera.

D1 Eira and D2 Eira are two different people. I do not understand what's happened and this game really doesn't need another anti-town player.

Tbh I don't like Toffee's entrance. Combined with Goldfish's play I think I'm just going to leave my vote there.

[Alexcellent]

Looks like Crescent is scum, no?

We should probably elim the person not willing to play the game.

VOTE: Crescent

Can we elim Gibus? Seems good, no?

VOTE: Eira

Alright.

VOTE: Gibus

All feels to me like a player looking for a comfortable wagon and not specifically scum.

[Alexcellent]

Crescent strong independent woman with weak scum partners of possibly male origin. Strong Cres strongarms game to her whim. Smart Cres thinks at last second 'oh shit Owen or Corwin might be a second incompetent teammate'. Clever Cres uses line left for later shading to kill George immediately instead as someone she already figured was probably not a teammate. Flabbergasted Cres sees Owen hammer and basically scum claim out loud and then get shot. Annoyed Cres notices useless partner (Gibus/NotMaf/Gold) just not trying. Tired Cres gets voted enough and gets sad and takes a day off. Newly Confident Cres now posts in more casual style.

Anyway off to bed now. That's just one interpretation anyway.

I like this

[Alexcellent]

(Not the gender part I don’t think that’s relevant at all but the theory of scum!Cres with non contributing partners I like)

[Alexcellent]

To speak my current peace:

I still think Vivax and Corwin are TvT, but I concede that if there's scum there it's Vivax.

I would be okay with a NotMaf Elim but it's not a priority.

I want more from Alex and Toffee or they'll go back into the scum pile.

My elims today besides NotMaf would be possibly Vixax (though the one I'd probably fight about), Gibus, or Gera. The other 5 I don't wanna launch today at all.

So basically if I have to vote today my vote will be on (maybe) Vivax, NotMaf, Gera, and Gibus wagons.

The only one of those I will vote today is NotMaf

[Alexcellent]

Oh and if I get shot tonight if there's anyone who doesn't have a vote right now who might be scum it's Elsa by the way.

'Cause I can play the theory game too!


You thought George was your aligned partner, which is why you didn't seem to care even slightly which of Corwin or Owen was voted off - Just so long as it wasn't George. You even went as far as to say he "crumbed" PR, but only admitted you were lying after Owen hammered.

You were set on voting off Corwin before the day started, and didn't stop to factor in what Owen's flip meant. This is why you quick voted him so fast and had to be forced to acknowledge the vote wasn't happening. Vivax, who is town, was all over Corwin, but didn't feel the need to vote him immediately. He even thought he did when he didn't!

You feel like you can't join the vote on Vivax from Corwin, so you pull the "my vote my choice" cringe to stick lazily on Corwin. You wait for a safe place to put your vote that might actually take off.

The moment Gibus gets a sniff, you hop on because its "fun". You feel you established on him yesterday and did not need to explain yourself jumping on him today. You sit back and watch BBT and I grill him for you.


I think every single part of my theory is actually rather reasonable.

Oh man, I like this too!

[Alexcellent]

Vivax is still scum

Why?

Pls respond in something that isn’t a shitpost

[Alexcellent]

Elsa, do you feel Toffee is town?

P-edit: I’ve had the vibe she’s sitting back and waiting for other people to make wagons for her since very early and I haven’t forgotten her defensive OMGUS reaction to me voting her D1. But I’m still mixed there, think there are more suitable launches today.

[Alexcellent]

Cres, please humour a tired and under the weather player who can’t be bothered going through your 9000 post ISO at the moment, but is that the first time you’ve shared that theory about Elsa?

[Alexcellent]

I didn't forget to unvote, I just didn't unvote

p-edit: there ya go

[Alexcellent]

I'm not interested in launching Vivax or Corwin today.
Mixed feelings on Gibus. I would prefer Not_Mafia over Gibus.
BBT's more recent posts are better but I'm not convinced that the slot isn't scum.

I'd launch Elsa/NM/BBT today.

P-Edit: I found Goldfish to be scummy and BBT's entrance didn't do enough to convince me of otherwise

[Alexcellent]

Yeah, these are valid points tbh. Thing that gives me doubt is his posts do come across as someone organically catching up on the game but that might be NAI.
I have seen games where I've read the scum thread afterwards and there's been shockingly little interaction between scum, so I don't think it's far fetched for Goldfish slot to have been scum. But I don't think that wagon is happening today.

I think I'm just doing this and see what happens.

UNVOTE: BBT
VOTE: NotMafia

[Alexcellent]

How did this day suddenly turn to me being -3 and just as suddenly turn into two guys voting for each other and vying for my hand?

This entire progression feels unnatural.

Gibus why did you vote BBT? I think his inquiry was rational.

I've definitely answered all of his queries sufficiently, but he makes no attempt to reconsider. Town is never that confident on scumreads.
It seems like he's doing everything in his power to throw hade at my iso (try hard entry for example, which obviously isn't genuine town thought process)

I am conflicted by this post.

Town is never that confident on scumreads.

Unsure how you can have this mindset and also think Corwin and Vivax are both town. Those dudes have spent 98% of this game confident that each other are scum with the flimsiest arguments and you think they're TvT. (I agree btw, I also think they're probably TvT), but BBT is scum for being confident. The defensive vote with this as the reason is iffy.


The thing here conflicting me is that I feel BBT's push on Gibus is quite forced and I don't mind the rest of Gibus's reaction - but this stands out to me.

[Alexcellent]

BlueBloodedToffee

[Alexcellent]

UNVOTE: NotMafia
VOTE: Elsa

[Alexcellent]

I'm not launching Gibus or Vivax today

[Alexcellent]

Indecision. But also I'm not keen on either Vivax or Gibus launches at the moment. BBT isn't being launched today and it appears neither is NM. Elsa is the compromise.


Here's the thing, like BBT said, 35 hours isn't a long time. I either have to compromise and join a wagon I'm not comfortable with, or vote someone I think is more likely to flip scum and hope some of you lovely people join me.
I'd prefer not to just sweep NM under the rug every day. If we're agreeing on a policy elim now is the time to do it, but I don't think that's happening.

p-edit: nothing changed really, I would prefer an NM or BBT launch over Elsa still, I think.

[Alexcellent]

Gibus is an excellent sorting hat though.

I think Vivax is a better sorting hat

[Alexcellent]

Is Vivax still your main scum read?

[Alexcellent]

It's 4am and I can't sleep. Some thoughts:

Feeling more town on Gibus, tbh. 425 feels sincere. Don't think scum just blatantly says "idk where my vote goes, maybs here?". I do agree with TBT that there isn't a lot of scumhunting in Gibus's ISO, but it looks as though he is trying to sort out town though to me. The worst thing he did D1, IMO, is 781 vote on George.
1298 and 1300 are good but maybe I just think they're good because I agree with the thought pattern there?
Generally don't mind his respond to BBT's push for the most part.

Ultimately also don't feel good about Vivax launch. Of the two -- Gibus and Vivax -- think Vivax gives more info? But still don't like it.
There's stuff I don't like. 785 D1 vote on George, puts at L-1 and doesn't say he's at L-1. Then there's reachy stuff on D2, mainly the stuff around me "rolefishing" with a Sherlock Holmes clipart. General interaction with Corwin feels like a couple of tunnelling townies. Moved his vote around a lot (Corwin>NM>Geraintm>Crescent) which could be read as flailing. But 1107 reads more like a townie who thinks he's genuinely got a good read. I think scum!Vivax stays on Gera? Definitely a feel of self-preservation in Vivax's posts once people start voting him -- I'd normally see scumminess in that except for the fact that he's pretty open about that being the post 1071. 1162 also looks pretty sincere.

I don't feel good about either wagon, and I don't think I'll vote either place today. But if there was a gun to my head I'd go Vivax over Gibus as I feel there's more info to be gained there. But also I'd prefer that neither of these are today's lunches.

[Alexcellent]

Goldish felt scummy to me. Avoided any real hard stances, flew under the radar a lot. Had what I'd consider a "don't rock the boat" approach to the game. 99 and 100 both sort of rubbed me the wrong way but not enough for me to call her out on it because it could have been nothing? Calls out mine and Gibus's interaction as weird -- but not scummy. Felt like she wanted attention brought to it, but didn't want to be the one to openly call it scummy or take a stance there. Very timid approach to the game. 106 reads come with a lot of qualifiers. "Take all these with a grain of salt". Town reads are loose. No real hard stances on anything. Says that Elsa or I could be scum but doesn't want to take a side.
Only real act of doing anything independently that pushed the game forward at all was 260, votes NM but tells him she doesn't think he's scum at the same time. Very weak vote.
Only person at end of D1 to not have a vote anywhere.
Her few D2 posts are bad. Her only firm reads happened to be on people that are now dead -- which is absolutely possible -- but also very convenient. Doesn't defend herself in any of her posts, just kind of admits to bad play and then disappears. I've seen this approach come from newbie scum -- maybs someone who has played very little scum before. Trying to appease people, like I said, flying under the radar. There's like, no firm reads or stances she takes anywhere and only vote once and that was on the no-content troll poster which didn't even have any weight to it. I have seen town play a bit like this before, but it's normally newbie town in their first game, and this isn't Goldfish's first game.
BBT replaces in. Threw a lot of votes around, which made me uncomfortable. (I am well aware that I've been loose with my votes very recently too). I will put some doubt here because his posts do feel a bit like a stream of consciousness where he is catching up and still getting up to date with the game and such. Dislike his push on Gibus though. 1324 and the posts around it ping me as scummy. Gibus has had some anti-town posts and I'd agree at an apparent lack of scumhunting -- but it feels like he's called Gibus scum and now he's trying to find scum motivation in everything Gibus has done all game. A lot of the argument feels soft. It's the sort of attack I see from scum trying to fabricate a case or it's tunnel town, and if it's the latter that's a very short amount of time to begin tunnelling someone. At the same time, idk, maybe he's seeing something I'm not but I just don't like that push which is in turn making me not like the Gibus wagon.

[Alexcellent]

Plus side to Elsa and Cres is that I don't think they can be scum together. But I have a conundrum there since they both present compelling arguments against each other which I kind of agree with. Would not hate a launch here.
Would not shock me if Elsa flipped red. Talk of policy elim only 3 pages in, very defensive reaction to my D1 push on her and overall has appeared on and off throughout the game as though she's wanting others to push the game forward rather than her do much herself. Maybe it's a playstyle thing? I don't think it's a pro-town thing though. For what it's worth, Mafia Traitor Owen refers to and talks of Elsa a lot in his short ISO and appears to townread her? I know we tread into WIFOM territory looking at his ISO, but it's worth pointing out I think.
On the other hand, I can absolutely see a scenario where scum!Cres has been lumped with an unknown traitor and a low activity partner. Lots of frustration over the lack of activity - maaaybe that's originating from her scum partner not being active and that's a cause for her anger. Her taking a break once votes got stacked against her is interesting timing. At times some of her posts have also bordered on feeling a bit appeal to emotion (like more or less implying how doomed the town is if she gives up or dies or whatever). I've noticed when people come after her she tends to aggressively attack and discredit more so than just defend herself. I asked before if her case against Elsa was the first time she had suggested it, because I found the timing of her coming out with that right after Elsa declared suspicion on her to be pretty convenient. But apparently Cres has said it before, I'll probably have to do a re-read and ISO there.
There's questionable stuff that Cres has posted but ultimately I think her frustration with town seems genuine and she does appear to be someone trying to solve the game.

Sorry for the blocks of text, wanted to get my thoughts out into the ether.

I'm still happy with BBT/Elsa launch today. NM as a policy. If you guys need to launch Gibus or Vivax I'd prefer it's Vivax, for the info, and also I dislike who is on Gibus's wagon.

[Alexcellent]

Alex you have contradicted yourself with two reads?

Fish was scummy because 'qualified reads'. Is that not exactly what Gibus did in 425 that you like so much where he says 'Feels rushed and panicky, just a feel though'\

Gibus has had the nerve to actually call some people town in this game. Fish (your predecessor)'s only firm reads conveniently ended up being dead people after they'd already flipped

I'm trying to find scum in everything Gibus does? I have referenced 7 posts out of the 30 he had when I made the case. What are you talking about?

It reads to me like you're spinning null/random early game stuff that's anti-town at best as being a lock for him as scum. He could well be scum but I don't think your push on him is good. This wagon feels off.

P-edit: that's cool with me dude

[Alexcellent]

Actually my brain is working again and you might be right about something.

Gibus’s town reads are easy to fabricate if he’s scum given the info he has.
Goldfish could have just been lost town.
Think I still prefer Vivax in this moment. But maybe Gibus does give more info than I thought.

[Alexcellent]

I’m gonna sleep on this for a bit
Man this game makes me feel dumb

[Alexcellent]

UNVOTE: NotMafia
VOTE: Elsa

Are you just trying to get any wagon started today?
Is one of thr 2 wagons you have ruled out yout partner and the other someone you've built up too much equity as town for you to vote for them without coming across as totally opportunistic scum????

I mean, kinda. If there are only wagons I dislike, I'd rather make a new one. I'm okay with doing a 180 on my reads since they're often wrong but those two wagons just smell bad, y'know?
I DO feel a bit better about BBT's reasoning on a second read through to an extent, I'm just not sure I agree with it all. It all really comes down more to Gibus's safe-ish town reads but that's not exactly a smoking gun.
Tbh I'm kind of surprised that Gibus hasn't joined the Elsa wagon and I don't know what to make of that.

Do you still think Vivax is scum?

[Alexcellent]

UNVOTE: NotMafia
VOTE: Elsa

Are you just trying to get any wagon started today?
Is one of thr 2 wagons you have ruled out yout partner and the other someone you've built up too much equity as town for you to vote for them without coming across as totally opportunistic scum????

I mean, kinda. If there are only wagons I dislike, I'd rather make a new one. I'm okay with doing a 180 on my reads since they're often wrong but those two wagons just smell bad, y'know?
I DO feel a bit better about BBT's reasoning on a second read through to an extent, I'm just not sure I agree with it all. It all really comes down more to Gibus's safe-ish town reads but that's not exactly a smoking gun.
Tbh I'm kind of surprised that Gibus hasn't joined the Elsa wagon and I don't know what to make of that.

Do you still think Vivax is scum?

[Alexcellent]

Oops, ignore double post

[Alexcellent]

Plus side to Elsa and Cres is that I don't think they can be scum together. But I have a conundrum there since they both present compelling arguments against each other which I kind of agree with. Would not hate a launch here.
Would not shock me if Elsa flipped red. Talk of policy elim only 3 pages in, very defensive reaction to my D1 push on her and overall has appeared on and off throughout the game as though she's wanting others to push the game forward rather than her do much herself. Maybe it's a playstyle thing? I don't think it's a pro-town thing though. For what it's worth, Mafia Traitor Owen refers to and talks of Elsa a lot in his short ISO and appears to townread her? I know we tread into WIFOM territory looking at his ISO, but it's worth pointing out I think.
On the other hand, I can absolutely see a scenario where scum!Cres has been lumped with an unknown traitor and a low activity partner. Lots of frustration over the lack of activity - maaaybe that's originating from her scum partner not being active and that's a cause for her anger. Her taking a break once votes got stacked against her is interesting timing. At times some of her posts have also bordered on feeling a bit appeal to emotion (like more or less implying how doomed the town is if she gives up or dies or whatever). I've noticed when people come after her she tends to aggressively attack and discredit more so than just defend herself. I asked before if her case against Elsa was the first time she had suggested it, because I found the timing of her coming out with that right after Elsa declared suspicion on her to be pretty convenient. But apparently Cres has said it before, I'll probably have to do a re-read and ISO there.
There's questionable stuff that Cres has posted but ultimately I think her frustration with town seems genuine and she does appear to be someone trying to solve the game.

Sorry for the blocks of text, wanted to get my thoughts out into the ether.

I'm still happy with BBT/Elsa launch today. NM as a policy. If you guys need to launch Gibus or Vivax I'd prefer it's Vivax, for the info, and also I dislike who is on Gibus's wagon.

I just remember him pestering me for an opinion and when I disagreed and voted him he threw me to the side like garbage. Maybe since we played together he thought I was easy to manipulate or something? I can be manipulated but only through jokes, gaslighting or stubbornness.

I also town read Toffee so it kinda puts us in an awkward moment where I'd have to compromise on you on NotMaf or more preferably Gibus. Think we can do that friend?

Yes, this is awkward. Is your Toffee town read mainly just because he's more talkative than Fish was?

If votes go onto NotMaf, I would join there but there seems to be pretty firm resistance there.
Gibus is a last resort preference over a no-launch, I think.

[Alexcellent]

With 2 days left, I expect the same final crunch we had day 1 to happen again. Maybe even the 8 wagons too. Tho with only 10 alive that becomes significantly harder to do.

I think we can at least agree who we are NOT eliminating today?

Nobody's really going for Alex, Eira, or me today, so I think we can take

those

3 out. Funnily enough the three of

them

are also the only ones not getting voted in the last VC either.

Corwin is more townread then Vivax who is more likely to get elimed between the two so he's safe too. Seems the Crescent stuff has also died now.

So that leaves us with Gibus, Toffee, NotMaf, Vivax, and Gera. Minus Toffee so far it matches what I think we should be between.

If your vote isn't on one of those you should probably get moving soon.

Strangr wording here. Why refer to herself in third person?
Sounds survivalistic while trying not to come off as such.

Can I get other people's thoughts on this?
Is town!Gibus onto something here or is scum!Gibus reaching? I feel like scum!Gibus could have thrown shade at so many other bigger things in Elsa's ISO but this is what stands out to him.

[Alexcellent]

I mean so far it's DEFINITELY a townread on Toffee's actions and only because of Fish do I still have some minor doubts. Like with Crescent, if fish had another lurker as a partner with no Coach she could've just abandoned the game. Demotivated after the traitor is gone. Another certified Elsa theory.

Can you please stop providing sensible theories that I agree with, it makes it very difficult for me to launch you.

[Alexcellent]

The expectation that vig can shoot again isn't scummy.

That's not the slip I care about.

I feel like I missed something here, what's this relating to?

[Alexcellent]

With 2 days left, I expect the same final crunch we had day 1 to happen again. Maybe even the 8 wagons too. Tho with only 10 alive that becomes significantly harder to do.

I think we can at least agree who we are NOT eliminating today?

Nobody's really going for Alex, Eira, or me today, so I think we can take

those

3 out. Funnily enough the three of

them

are also the only ones not getting voted in the last VC either.

Corwin is more townread then Vivax who is more likely to get elimed between the two so he's safe too. Seems the Crescent stuff has also died now.

So that leaves us with Gibus, Toffee, NotMaf, Vivax, and Gera. Minus Toffee so far it matches what I think we should be between.

If your vote isn't on one of those you should probably get moving soon.

Strangr wording here. Why refer to herself in third person?
Sounds survivalistic while trying not to come off as such.

Gibus, why no Elsa vote here? She's in your scumpool. Cres and me are already voting there. We have like a day left. I'm unsure why you are sticking with Toffee here.

[Alexcellent]

It's about 4pm for me tomorrow, so I shouuuuld be around

Even though we're getting close to end of day, probably worth noting again that NM is still on Vivax. Any other wagon that gets to L-1 is at risk of a lolhammer.

[Alexcellent]

Have had the feeling its the leftovers from people taking sides in Corwin vs Vivax but yeah, it doesn't look like a good wagon. NM has called Vivax scum and no reasons provided. Gera's vote on him feels weak and there hasn't really been anything new from him there towards Vivax. Don't really get the vote from Eiralox either.

[Alexcellent]

Happy scumday!

[Alexcellent]

@gibus i mean there's many things but the main shtick is how loose u are with votes, and how recalcitrant regarding providing reasons. the only solid reads i've been getting from you, solid arguments, are from D2 after a wagon started to build on ya. Buuuuuutt... i can still see you as town.

I follow with this, also I enjoyed the use of the word recalcitrant.

But ultimately think I've come around on a Gibus launch today, at least over Vivax now. I'm not a fan of 1587.

[Alexcellent]

UNVOTE: Elsa

Eh, this is my intent to vote.

Gibus, time to claim.

[Alexcellent]

Yarp

[Alexcellent]

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Checker

Learns if the target had a successful action (Gibus can correct if I'm wrong)

[Alexcellent]

May I enquire as to who you targeted last night Gibus?

[Alexcellent]

Oops my b

[Alexcellent]

So we killed a detective D1 and outed doctor D2.

We've got like 15 hours left.

P-edit: oh, I misread then. Gibus, please clarify exactly what you do

[Alexcellent]

VOTE: Elsa

P-edit; "Combined doctor checker" is an incredibly specific thing to fake claim and I would be very surprised if it's fake but I take your point

[Alexcellent]

The wagon that was on Elsa D1?

That was me.

Agree that it's probably 2 scum + 1 traitor.

[Alexcellent]

VOTE: BBT

I think Elsa is the play. If wagon grows on BBT I will move there, but with a bit over half a day left, it's not happening.

[Alexcellent]

Considering I'm a [Redacted]-Enabler Bodyguard, you should probably not vote me either.

How we get two people ready to claim Protectives day 2 is the miracles of RNG.

Why did you do this?

[Alexcellent]

Because if I claimed Bodyguard in a later post then immediately after someone claimed Doctor I would be called a liar.

I come back from YouTube and see that shit.

I... don't think that would have been the case?

Did you crumb this anywhere?

UNVOTE: Elsa

[Alexcellent]

VOTE: BBT

I think Elsa is the play. If wagon grows on BBT I will move there, but with a bit over half a day left, it's not happening.

I would say I echo this sentiment. I'm less on the "automatically give BBT a night" as I was before, though.

This feels like a "scum was blindsided by this claim" kind of moment. Anyways, Elsa's wagon (the 3 of us if Gibus comes back) is almost certainly clean, and Gibus either has 2 scum on him or Gibus/Vivax is split 1/1. No way is this Gibus train pure. I feel like scum's been fighting for this train all day.

I agree about the Gibus train.

[Alexcellent]

What are the odds of there being 2 protective roles? Like how far-fetched would that be?
I'm also assuming scum probably have some big powers.

[Alexcellent]

Combined doctor/checker is such a specific thing that I'm inclined to believe it. But at the same time, yeah, it can be manufactured. I'm way more inclined to believe something with more detail like that than if he just came out and said "I'm the doctor!"

That feels like a big risk for scum!Elsa to come out with that as a counter claim though, especially if we're believing there's only 2 scum left... and I kind of am leaning towards buying it at least for today.

Either case, I agree that neither Elsa or Gibus should be the launch today.

[Alexcellent]

Actually yeah. If we have a vig, then there's potential for multiple night kills, I follow the logic of multiple protection roles to try and counter balance that.

[Alexcellent]

VOTE: BBT prefer this over Vivax.

[Alexcellent]

@Elsa, I see you still have your vote on Gibus, do you have an alternative place for your vote?

[Alexcellent]

Pretty sure this is where the votes are at after looking over the last few pages

gibus (2): BlueBloodedToffee, Geraintm
Vivax (2): Not_Mafia, Eiralox
BlueBloodedToffee (2): gibus, Alexcellent
Crescent (1): Vivax

Not voting: Crescent, Elsa Jay, Corwin

[Alexcellent]

Can I ask why Vivax is the play?

[Alexcellent]

My case on Gibus was good.

Was it though?

[Alexcellent]

Prefer BBT, but I'd sheep a Geraint wagon. I think there's scum in one of those slots.

Tbh I've just been kind of null on Geraint all game. I've been kind of ignoring him because he seems like busy/disinterested rather than inherently scummy, but also very little (if any) pro-town stuff has come from him too. His earlier Vivax vote felt weak and the move to Gibus is convenient. If Gera were to flip scum I would prooooobably feel better about BBT.

[Alexcellent]

@Vivax wou;ld u rather vote toffe or geraintm/?

I suppose Gera, though I think his abrasiveness makes hin town.

I don't think abrasiveness is indicative of alignment unless you have a really solid meta read on him

[Alexcellent]

@Crescent & Eiralox, where are your votes going?

[Alexcellent]

I feel Gera and Toffee are wasting their votes RN. We should go on Vivax, Toffee, or NotMaf since nobody'll complain there.

No to Vivax, yes to Toffee or NotMaf.

No idea why we have people not voting this late in the day.
Gera hasn't chimed in since the claims but would be very interested to see where his vote ends up.
I can see Toffee's vote on Gera making sense from either aligment, but unless everyone rushes onto Gera I don't think that wagon is happening. His activity is so sporadic that there's a chance he may not pop in before end of day.

P-Edit: I'd rather Toffee over Gera but I'm starting to think we compromise on a NotMafia.

P-Edit 2: Can we stop bickering over NL please.

[Alexcellent]

It's because scum!Toffee needs to vote there. He's been openly townreading Vivax so him joining that wagon would stink. He's also like the only person NotMafia has claimed to have a townread of so he probably doesn't want to risk losing an anti-town slot that thinks he is town (presuming NM is town - that or he is his partner). Trying to force a last minute Geraintm wagon is his safer option after the Gibus claim.

I DO have doubts and think there's potential that Geraintm is scum, but I feel better about Toffee wagon over Gera.

[Alexcellent]

Also worth noting that there's only two people in this entire game NM has given any sort of read on and that's that he thinks Vivax is scum and Toffee is town. So potential info there.

[Alexcellent]

Actually, yeah, @Elsa & Corwin, can we get off of Vivax? I think that's a bad wagon.

[Alexcellent]

Yep.

I got paranoid because he did have a point about Gibus's apparent lack of scumhunting and the notion that scum!Gibus would share only his townreads because he knows who is town.
But a lot of his shade comes from really null early game stuff that honestly could apply to other players beyond Gibus anyway.

[Alexcellent]

Believe that's 4 votes on BBT now.

[Alexcellent]

I don't think it's a good idea when protective or investigative claims telegraph their targets because it helps scum build a roadmap for how to act at night.

^

[Alexcellent]

IMO I think it's best to not announce who you are targeting given the likelihood of a roleblocker.

[Alexcellent]

Less than 3 hours left

[Alexcellent]

I'm not saying.

Hammer me.

Hard to see this coming from town so I'm optimistic about the flip

[Alexcellent]

Oof.

Thanks for modding Umlaut. I enjoyed the science diagrams.

GG everyone

[Alexcellent]

Yeah I was honestly planning on shooting NM but decided on Owen after seeing his hammer

[Alexcellent]

Honestly I kind of thought his quick hammer there was kinda the right play? You guys don't know who he is so there's already risk that he either gets shot at night or elimmed the next day, I think potentially sacrificing himself to take out a town PR isn't horrid play. He also didn't 100% know for sure that there was a vig (although town detective kind of implies that). He maybe could've done a less scummy looking hammer and I'd have had to think more about who I shot but I think doing what he did wasn't objectively bad or anything.