Open 674: Duck Duck Goose [Game Over]
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KidAmn Mafia Scum
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KidAmn Mafia Scum
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It is my understanding that that is frowned upon.In post 11, outoforder wrote:I've always wondered why people actually pick the people they do vote at the start of the game. I don't actually believe anyone ever goes to random.org or rolls a dice or something like that.-
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KidAmn Mafia Scum
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In post 27, Creature wrote:Ugh when someone wants me to describe "impressions"
...I... you... what?In post 31, Creature wrote:Okay, they aren't very serious, but when I vote in RVS, I vote whom I have a feeling that's most likely scum.
This whole clusterfuck between Ooo, Hapa and creature a) makes no sense and b) is only going to confuse everyone but you three who know each other from "parts unknown". It's not productive in the slightest IMO.
Absolutely none of this smells like town-posting. "For now it's irrelevant what i do think of the post in question" - Uh, nope, you don't get to make that call. You also don't get to tell people to drop it while you play pretend-Sherlock with your buddy.In post 48, outoforder wrote:
You will get an answer to that if you jsut can wait until Rels answers to me.In post 46, doomfeathers wrote:outoforder wrote:[quote="In [url=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum
Ah, but you did see something you thought was AI there or you wouldn't have asked, and since you asked without saying what you thought, I'm willing to bet it was scum-indicative.
To elaborate a little bit further; there is a reason Rels has somewhat earned a nickname, let's call it "mini-outoforder" here, since we both as town think a looot alike regarding certain situations and posts. My question is directed to Rels for a reason that i am trying to get a read on him. For now it's irrelevant what i do think of the post in question and i'd like people to drop it since it's pretty clear to me that you all - if you cling on that - are talking about something you cannot make a decision on in the end since you don't have all the facts. And as i said, i'll elaborate fully on it after i hear from Rels.
Is that fine?
B-b-b-backpedaling! With a healthy dose of "if you're not helpingIn post 53, outoforder wrote:
ofc not lol. I am not even asking you to "back off". I am telling you you cannot get any more information about the matter right now so you might want to focus on something else in the meanwhile. When you hear my explanation you can decide if it makes sense or not and then make your decision. As i said, if you are town, right now this matter does not get you anywhere. I am not trying to "flush you off me", i am trying to tell you what you were doing doesn't help the town right now.In post 50, doomfeathers wrote:You asking Rels that question is reasonable. Your insistence that I back off is weird. Would you be opposed to me following up after Rels has answered?meyou're not helping the town".-
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KidAmn Mafia Scum
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KidAmn Mafia Scum
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Calling it as I see it. Asking questions and then when asked to give his own opinion saying "nope, you don't get that info right now and if you keep pushing it you're not helping town" is not pro-town play.In post 61, hapahauli wrote:UNVOTE:
VOTE: KidAmn
Yeah no. You do not get to call the early situation a "clusterfuck" and then throw fuel on the fire.
Literally my only comment on that interaction was to say it was a clusterfuck and should not continue (and yes, for some reason I mixed Creature in there because I had been quoting him above to snark at his early posting, and because Rels literally hasn't posted this game, so apologies to Creature). I then moved on to a completely separate point about Ooo's refusal to give his own opinions until people have played his little mini-game.hapahauli wrote:Not reading properly =/= mafia.
Reading something as a "clusterfuck", criticizing it as confusing/pointless, and then engaging in said clusterfuck is likely mafia. The story is inconsistent. Posting for the sake of posting, etc.
Elsewhere, and not in a format I can link it.In post 59, doomfeathers wrote:KidAmn, you seem pretty confident. Do you have previous experience on this site or elsewhere?
Unvotesince Allomancer is clearly not plotting global domination via dinosaur wizardry, while I'm here.-
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KidAmn Mafia Scum
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Any other comments to make? Anything at all to say about the last 4 pages?In post 85, Rels wrote:
I don't get if it's a joke or not. It doesn't make sense if it's seriousIn post 16, outoforder wrote:Hey Rels, when you're around, let me know what you think of the MooginSoosy post.-
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KidAmn Mafia Scum
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I think either you're not understanding or I'm not getting it across properly: the issue isn't the existence of the mini-game, it's that Ooo refused to clue anyone else in until it was "done with" or engage the people trying to get answers out of him.In post 87, hapahauli wrote:
I don't understand how that's separate. OoO's "mini-game" has everything to do with the fact that him, Rels, and I have played on other websites.In post 84, KidAmn wrote:
Literally my only comment on that interaction was to say it was a clusterfuck and should not continue (and yes, for some reason I mixed Creature in there because I had been quoting him above to snark at his early posting, and because Rels literally hasn't posted this game, so apologies to Creature). I then moved on to a completely separate point about Ooo's refusal to give his own opinions until people have played his little mini-game.hapahauli wrote:Not reading properly =/= mafia.
Reading something as a "clusterfuck", criticizing it as confusing/pointless, and then engaging in said clusterfuck is likely mafia. The story is inconsistent. Posting for the sake of posting, etc.
Given how determined he was/is to shit on me and dismiss anything I've said as "oh he's just stupid he isn't reading he doesn't know anything" I'm pretty happy with my vote.Rels wrote:
Where do you stand on OOO now ?In post 86, KidAmn wrote:
Any other comments to make? Anything at all to say about the last 4 pages?In post 85, Rels wrote:
I don't get if it's a joke or not. It doesn't make sense if it's seriousIn post 16, outoforder wrote:Hey Rels, when you're around, let me know what you think of the MooginSoosy post.-
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KidAmn Mafia Scum
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My reason for voting for him hasn't changed since I first put the vote down. The fact that his instant reaction was to start attacking a perceived lack of ability and try to brush it off as "lol stupid but townie" instead of actually doing what several people asked and giving the information he was so heavily hinting at prior to getting his 1-line response from Rels... just kind of solidified that.In post 94, Aubrey wrote:Just for clarification KidAmn. Are you happy with your vote because you're actually scum reading him, or because you are frustrated with his comments directed at you, and your lashing out? because at a quick glance your last line of text seems driven by frustration.
Incidentally, going back and doing some re-reading:
Emphases mine: 1st, I never said anything to the effect of "[this interaction] is town", so Hapa is outright lying here. 2nd is simply untrue again - as I explained before, the issue wasn't the conversation itself, but the refusal to discuss further with anyone else until the conversation happened, and the issue of backpedalling was that Ooo told DF to back off, then went back in #53 and tried to explain how he wasn'tIn post 68, hapahauli wrote:Since when does two enthusiastic posts make someone lean town? Town's gonna have a bad time if the bar for innocence is this low.
This makes very little sense first of all, since at that point I had posted once, and Creature wasn't interacting much with OoO at all. It was you (doomfeather) and OoO that were doing most of the talking.
KidAmn calls the whole thing between myself, OoO, and Creature town.
Despite calling the whole argument "not productive" and "confusing", he jumps right into it and accuses OoO of backpedalling.
It does not follow that you can call a conversation not productive/confusing, and accuse someone of backpedalling on the basis of that very conversation.reallytelling him to back off.-
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KidAmn Mafia Scum
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In post 100, doomfeathers wrote:UNVOTE: Creature
Now I don't have any scumreads. Well, at least outoforder gets company.
All townies are 1-shot PGOs. Worst-case scenario is dying without ever arming.Since one scummie is worth about three townies, do we at some point want to all roll d3s to see whether to arm that night?We could force scum to choose between risking death and no-killing three nights in a row.-
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KidAmn Mafia Scum
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May have been missed, but I did unvote Allomancer (and thought I had put it on Ooo but apparently not).In post 201, Tenshii wrote:Votecount 1.2
[L-5] outoforder - Fredrick E Campbell, MooginSoosy
[L-5] Aubrey - Creature, Kop
[L-5] havingfitz - Aubrey, hapahauli
[L-6] Allomancer - KidAmn
[L-6] Frederick E Campbell - doomfeathers
Not voting: havingfitz, outoforder, Rels, Allomancer
With 12 alive, a majority vote is decided with 7 players.
Deadline: (expired on 2017-03-01 23:00:00)
Aghh. I missed it, my bad. I noted that I missed this in the previous Votecounts and the next one. I'll be careful from here on out.Last edited by Tenshii on Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.-
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KidAmn Mafia Scum
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I know, I do have a relatively busy life outside of this site though, especially on weekends.In post 254, Aubrey wrote:Kid needs to make re-showing too.
Far too many people coasting along not posting at all right now. F.E.C.'s complete lack of any content and then suddenly 4 posts in a row attacking Aubrey and Creature is all kinds of weird and feels a lot like someone maintaining the absolute minimum required to stay in the game - whether or not that's "scummy" is hard to say, but it's an incredibly anti-town way to play (and yes, there is a difference between "anti-town" and "scummy".
Similarly something feels off to me about Creature - the rather blasé nature of their posting, throwing out town and scum-reads with little to no reasoning (looking at their ISO, their longest post is a whole 3 lines?)... it just comes across as the opposite of "full of sound and fury, signifying nothing" - and certainly not a tale told by an idiot. It's deliberate and I dislike it, but unfortunately it matches up with looking at their posting in a couple of other games I've looked at. Having Allomancer as one of their scumreads despite them being so inactive they've picked up a prod also feels lazy as hell, as if they're covering themselves by saying "I had a scumread on Allomancer" for if/when a "fuck it, get rid of these lurkers" wagon happens.
In post 265, Aubrey wrote:Look at that crap. You know I didn't buddy in our last game as scum.-
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KidAmn Mafia Scum
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I've been driving the wife around all day, cut a fella some slack on the meme game.
As for the vote - Honestly, right now I could go for F.E.C. or Creature, but I'm willing to give both a chance to respond (Creature more-so as my issue with him seems to just behow he plays). Moogin needs to contribute way more than they have so far, so not disagreeable to putting some pressure there either.-
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I dislike the use of meta in general (outside of posting style - i.e. I don't like Creature's non-committal and... spartan posting style, but I can look at a decent chunk of his games and see it's consistent) but referencing one's own meta as Aubrey did is one of the most glaringly useless things there is - anyone capable of brief introspection can play to or against their own "meta" given enough ability.In post 296, doomfeathers wrote:I voted havingfitz because I haven't seen anybody do anything that makes me actually scumread them yet. I figured that if that's the case then the person who I know is hard for me to read is more likely to be scum.
Nuts, you're right. He is on V/LA. I must have been tired last night. I'll go through the thread yet another time and see if I can find someone to vote.
@MOD: Could you prod Allomancer, please?
KidAmn, when you post a gif but don't explain the faults in anyone's reasoning, it just comes across as passive-aggressive and unhelpful. Could you maybe explain your objections?
PEdit:
Looks like I get to fire a similar question at you: could you maybe explain this for me?doomfeathers wrote:VOTE: hapahauli
Not really scummy. More less not-scummy.-
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KidAmn Mafia Scum
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I don't have any massively strong feelings on you one way or the other - if pushed I'd lean town simply because scum could be coasting through this day very happily without doing much at all at this point, and you're doing quite the opposite. I just dislike the meta comments and wanted to make that clear in a sufficiently wavy manner, as I am reliably informed the kids say these days.In post 299, Aubrey wrote:lol, fine Kid. Let's get on with it. Do you think I'm scum and was budding Creature as Kop suggested? If the answer is yes, bring it. If the answer is no, then move on and get over the meta crap.-
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KidAmn Mafia Scum
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KidAmn Mafia Scum
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Hope things improve. Weakens my scum read on your slot a little to know about, but still hard to reconcile that burst of 4 posts with town motive.
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KidAmn Mafia Scum
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I don't have a ton of time to respond to all this bullshit where Hapahauli runs back to his first scum-reads again to drum up a counter wagon instead of doing anything productive, so I'm just gonna make some things clear:In post 452, hapahauli wrote: He's pretty critical of people "coasting", but that's basically what he's doing himself this game. He has 16 posts, most of which were made while defending himself from my early-game push against him. Scum love to criticize town for fucking up, but do nothing themselves to help the situation.
Secondly, probably the most substantial thing he has in his filter deals with his "read" on Creature:In post 276, KidAmn wrote: Similarly something feels off to me about Creature - the rather blasé nature of their posting, throwing out town and scum-reads with little to no reasoning (looking at their ISO, their longest post is a whole 3 lines?)... it just comes across as the opposite of "full of sound and fury, signifying nothing" - and certainly not a tale told by an idiot. It's deliberate and I dislike it, but unfortunately it matches up with looking at their posting in a couple of other games I've looked at. Having Allomancer as one of their scumreads despite them being so inactive they've picked up a prod also feels lazy as hell, as if they're covering themselves by saying "I had a scumread on Allomancer" for if/when a "fuck it, get rid of these lurkers" wagon happens.
In the first post, he calls Creature mafia for questionable reasons. This isn't inherently scummy - I'd understand why a less experienced townie could call Creature mafia for his posting style.In post 278, KidAmn wrote:I've been driving the wife around all day, cut a fella some slack on the meme game.
As for the vote - Honestly, right now I could go for F.E.C. or Creature, but I'm willing to give both a chance to respond (Creature more-so as my issue with him seems to just behow he plays). Moogin needs to contribute way more than they have so far, so not disagreeable to putting some pressure there either.
However the second post is quite scummy.He mentions supporting a vote on Creature, while giving good reasons to call creature town. He then finishes off by throwing Shade at a 3rd player. It's very hard for me to see this post coming from town.
The thought process of a townie is "I think <player> is mafia, therefore I should vote <player>."
NOT
"<Player> can be town for <reasons>, but I'm cool with voting him anyway."
That's not a town mentality. Town want to lynch players that they're suspicious of, not players who they have reasons to think are NOT suspicious.
There's no mention of why he thinks Creature could be more likely mafia than town. He basically acknowledges that all of his reasons to vote Creature are non alignment indicative, yet he clearly states that he would vote him.
- I'm "coasting" because I work 50 hours a week in an environment where I don't get to spend my time sat at a desk posting walls of waffle about interactions with players on a completely different site, so yes, my posting is sporadic
- The idea that being willing to give FEC and Creature a chance to respond to my issues is scummy is straight up bullshit. If giving people chances to respond is anti-town and making use of the time the town has to discuss things is anti-town then I want a ticket to whatever bizzaro world you're on. You also conveniently ignore that my issue isn't just with his style of posting, I also referred to the fact that he was throwing out town and scum reads with little reasoning behind them AND him throwing a town read on Allomancer who had done nothing of note all game
- You conveniently ignore that my other scum read at the time (FEC) was solidly based on a series of particularly scummy looking posts
PEDIT - as Doomfeather says you literally do the thing you accuse me of where you call kop scum and then list a bunch of reasons he could be town
In summary, bite my shiny metal ass
VOTE: Hapahauli-
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KidAmn Mafia Scum
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You call Kop your second strongest read and then follow it with a list of reasons he might not be scum, one of which is his posting style with bigass walls of text catchup, while criticising me for having a weak scum-read on Creature but admitting that part of my issue could just be his posting style
Do you not see the contradiction there-
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KidAmn Mafia Scum
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In post 474, hapahauli wrote:
Mistype on my part from all these fucking walls of text - should be FitzIn post 472, KidAmn wrote:You call Kop your second strongest read and then follow it with a list of reasons he might not be scum, one of which is his posting style with bigass walls of text catchup, while criticising me for having a weak scum-read on Creature but admitting that part of my issue could just be his posting style
Do you not see the contradiction there
Kop is not my second strongest read. Where do you get that?-
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KidAmn Mafia Scum
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Jfc phone posting. Mistype on my part from all these fucking walls of text - should be Fitz.
Point still stands, and calling you out on your bullshit with actual arguments is the opposite of "OMGUS" - the definition of OMGUS is a vote with no real reason other than 'fuck you' although that is basically my thoughts right now-
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KidAmn Mafia Scum
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KidAmn Mafia Scum
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It's hypocritical. It's saying "Kid doing this thing [giving reasons why my read on Creature might not have been the strongest] is bad" and then turning around and calling Fitz (not Kop, that was a mistype on my part) scum but following it up with "but here's a bunch of reasons my read on him isn't as strong as on Kid"In post 532, Hawk wrote:
KidDamn are you saying it's a contradiction because he gave case for both scum and town Kop or are you saying it's a contradiction because you think it's hypocritical line of thinking?In post 472, KidAmn wrote:You call Kop your second strongest read and then follow it with a list of reasons he might not be scum, one of which is his posting style with bigass walls of text catchup, while criticising me for having a weak scum-read on Creature but admitting that part of my issue could just be his posting style
Do you not see the contradiction there-
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KidAmn Mafia Scum
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In post 542, doomfeathers wrote:
Open 658 was a game I played in which both Aubrey and Creature also played. I was NKed N1. Havingfitz later replaced in and won as scum with BK201 and Gamma Emerald; I don't believe I ever actually interacted with him that game. Unfortunately, day 1 lasted for 42 pages.In post 539, Hawk wrote:
More meta stuff?? Okay BRB gotta go read another game to get a read on a player this gameIn post 536, Creature wrote:He's Open 658ing.
Seriously is that the only reason? also if I'm misunderstanding what you are saying let me know.So you replaced out and your slot died D5 to a lynch. Why exactly would you lie about that?
Not gonna lie my enthusiasm for this game has been fucking tanked by the amount of other games and off-site games and "oh-ho-ho I know what he does because of playing on another site and here is a wall of text about it".-
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Or you're her strongest scum-read and she wants to get the wagon on you to the end on a long D1. Not to mention that the scum having day-talk makes your first point null and void since as the wagon on you grew you could very easily as scum say to your team "bus me while looking for other wagons we can derail on in case the town can't finish the job here". Also, repeatedly stating "there's no real case on me whaarblgarble ur all trash" does not make this true.In post 682, hapahauli wrote:What's more likely here? That I went into this game screaming at my team to bus me? Or that there are quite a few mafia members suspicious of me for super sketchy reasons that don't make sense anymore.
It's very clear that Cassielle is mafia. How she's tunneling me is not confirmation bias. She's suspicious of me because it's the popular thing to do, and never had any interest in figuring out my alignment.-
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KidAmn Mafia Scum
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In post 804, cassielle wrote: kidamn has gone from extremely invested to completely uninvested very quickly with no "warning signs" popping up. this feels like scum trying to redirect, to me. it doesnt feel like townie apathy, as i look into it (esp in context) -- theres missing signs, the whole "back off" thing isnt visible in posts prior. theres townie reasoning wrt his scumreads and people's play, but with daytalk, thats less meaningful because you can always go "hey does this look like obvtown?" in the scum pt
kidamn has the /potential/ (if town) to be a pretty damned good pro-town force. i would rather not ML him but im not seeing the town reasoning for his coasty apathetic play. if he is town, as the wagon fills up he needs to get on top of this game and start being the pro-town player he can be. pressurevoting is an appropriate way to lean on the slot
kidamn's apathy appears (AFAICT) to stem from not being able to push a single scumread -- when there are 3 scum in the game -- without resistance from two other slots interfering
there are very rare cases where you can benefit from digging your heels in and going full lockdown on who you want to deal with -- this isnt one of those cases. due to the setup, any scumlynch is a good scumlynch here (they're all goons), and while you can have /preferences/ you should be willing and able to point at and push a diff scumread if your preferred wagon stalls.
but kidamn is letting two players destroy his case instead of trying to push outside of their circle (and thereby speak to a large group of people who do agree with him)
this says to me that kidamn wants to ml a pro-town player early while the paranoia is rampant and before town can swing associatives, VCA and NKA into play
or that kidamn wants to bus a scum player early and fast for towncred and is feeling nervous/frustrated that townies are derailing that wagon
...or that kidamn is town who doesnt realize how anti-town hes acting -- so heres a wakeup call: dont hit the snooze button, get the hell up
in general i think that kidamn has more of a chance to save himself from the d1 lynch than hapa, due to reading like frustrated town in large part -- pressure and reiterating that i think kidamn can pull himself out of this hole hammers in the idea that he needs to bring his town game to the table ASAP. this is ultimately pro-town because hes an active player who can infodump with the best of them, and i dont think he can smoothly recover from the obvious scumplay if he is actually scum
but if he doesnt step up to the plate, we can only assume that, at best, hes town actively working against his wincon, and at worst, hes scum who took the demotivated townie charade too farAbove post edited with cass own EBWOP
Okay, first off "no warning signs":In post 801, cassielle wrote:hi BV
yeah i would /love/ to lynch kidamn, esp because i tried to engage with him and got totally 100% ignored
but that apathy is townish to me.
lets watch BV for now, i think their play will be highly instructive
In post 54, KidAmn wrote:In post 27, Creature wrote:Ugh when someone wants me to describe "impressions"
...I... you... what?In post 31, Creature wrote:Okay, they aren't very serious, but when I vote in RVS, I vote whom I have a feeling that's most likely scum.
This whole clusterfuck between Ooo, Hapa and creature a) makes no sense and b) is only going to confuse everyone but you three who know each other from "parts unknown". It's not productive in the slightest IMO.In post 466, KidAmn wrote:- I'm "coasting" because I work 50 hours a week in an environment where I don't get to spend my time sat at a desk posting walls of waffle about interactions with players on a completely different site, so yes, my posting is sporadicIn post 469, KidAmn wrote:Also holy crap responding to all these walls of text is literal dicks on a phone.
How much clearer would you like me to spell out my distaste for the playstyle of the majority of this day?In post 548, KidAmn wrote:Not gonna lie my enthusiasm for this game has been fucking tanked by the amount of other games and off-site games and "oh-ho-ho I know what he does because of playing on another site and here is a wall of text about it".
2nd - it's interesting that in these 2 posts your first instinct was to say my apathy didn't "feel" town, then you walk back and forward on that throughout - you say "i would rather not ML him but im not seeing the town reasoning" which I could almost think is a slip; then it's "[Kid] wants to ml a pro-town player early while the paranoia is rampant and before town can swing associatives, VCA and NKA into play, or that kidamn wants to bus a scum player early and fast for towncred and is feeling nervous/frustrated that townies are derailing that wagon" and then at the end we're back to "nah you can totally save yourself from the lynch way better than hapa" (I should fucking hope so). But yeah, this whole post feels really odd and swingy and unwilling to commit either way on me. Not to mention the whole "I would love to lynch Kid but his apathy feels townish to me" thing.
3rd - yes, I've been "tunnelling" or however you want to refer to it on Hapa. He's my strongest scumread, the fuck else do you expect. You want me to look at other people? Look at the people bouncing onto my wagon as soon as someone dropped a pressure vote on me. A wagon that has conveniently outpaced Hapa's wagon, despite the people on mine complaining about how long Hapa's wagon is taking (Creature). Look at the first vote on me, from Rels, whose case on me extends to thinking I'm stretching for pointing out Hapa's hypocrisy in his case on me and quoting a bunch of things without offering any actual commentary (and getting a free pass on this because his post count is really high without saying anything)
4th - I don't give a damn about living any further right now here. If I do end up being the lynch, at least it gets this interminable first day over and gives people something solid to look at when I flip town. So if you're gonna do it, get it the fuck over with already.-
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KidAmn Mafia Scum
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KidAmn Mafia Scum
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So let's talk about how awful phone posting isIn post 877, KidAmn wrote:Mod: a vote count would be nice please and thank you
Mostly because IIRC we don't have much time left?
But for real, Rels' first post back from V/LA needs to be an actual case on me and ooo's lipservice to the Haha wagon while putting his vote anywhere but it as the day drags on is duly noted-
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KidAmn Mafia Scum
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I've already stated my dislike for Rels and tbh Cass is the only thing driving this town at this point, but I'm still not crazy about us going from "Hapa is the lynch but let's look at other stuff first" to "Rels is the lynch and don't any of you dare stall"
That said I'm willing to bow to my strongest town read at this point for now and it's not a lynch I disagree with on its own merits soVote: Rels-
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KidAmn Mafia Scum
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KidAmn Mafia Scum
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"i dont think hap is an acceptable loss as town" - the dude has gone completely silent and is a few hours from being forcereplaced while posting elsewhere
"I don't know where kid is getting the idea me and Rels are going ham on counterwagons" - currently voting Aubrey a completely unviable wagon
Hmmmmmmmmmm-
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KidAmn Mafia Scum
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KidAmn Mafia Scum
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In post 1158, outoforder wrote:Lets lynch the omgusfitz!
Because he's gonna flip scum. Not sold on aubrey being mafia. Kop could be a good alternative to lynch. I dont wanna lynch hapa because i dont really think he is mafia and when he is not mafia his reads are good.In post 1159, outoforder wrote:I have also decided that cassielle is town and i wont be reading any of her posts because they make literally zero sense.
This sequence of posting makes me more than happy with an Ooo lynch. Will do more wordsing when I get out of work.In post 1160, outoforder wrote:If anyone wants some good laughs go read why havingfitz thinks creature is mafia. "All over the place" and "doesnt interact well eith others" != mafia. In fact its way more often the other way around. There is absolutely zero reason to think someone is mafia for that. In fact i dont understand any of his reads. All his scumreads are basically "i dont like how the person posts" which never makes anyone scum.-
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KidAmn Mafia Scum
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KidAmn
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KidAmn Mafia Scum
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First quote - accusing Fitz of OMGUS. Fitz has not voted you since RVS. He has stated he has suspected you, but that appears to mostly be because you won't actually answer with what your case on him is: looking through your ISO, I've seen the following:In post 1405, outoforder wrote:
I am going to wait one day for an answer to this, which is something you promised but never followed up on.In post 1223, KidAmn wrote:In post 1158, outoforder wrote:Lets lynch the omgusfitz!
Because he's gonna flip scum. Not sold on aubrey being mafia. Kop could be a good alternative to lynch. I dont wanna lynch hapa because i dont really think he is mafia and when he is not mafia his reads are good.In post 1159, outoforder wrote:I have also decided that cassielle is town and i wont be reading any of her posts because they make literally zero sense.
This sequence of posting makes me more than happy with an Ooo lynch. Will do more wordsing when I get out of work.In post 1160, outoforder wrote:If anyone wants some good laughs go read why havingfitz thinks creature is mafia. "All over the place" and "doesnt interact well eith others" != mafia. In fact its way more often the other way around. There is absolutely zero reason to think someone is mafia for that. In fact i dont understand any of his reads. All his scumreads are basically "i dont like how the person posts" which never makes anyone scum.
I am especially interested in second quote, not in a sense of where you are coming from since you said it already in your post 895, but in a sense of how on earth you can possibly think the player who is literally most disruptive to the town in this game can possibly be the "driving force" behind the town. It doesn't make any sense.
Or maybe it's just a playstyle thing. But you can also think about it a little by yourself, was it better to actively try to solve the game or was it better to actively shut down any wagons for the last 3 days or so and just yell some random things. Give it a thought.
In post 142, outoforder wrote:
I don't understand this since i am not casing either of them, at least regarding their votes. If i was i would clearly point that out.TL;DR: Your case on MooginSoosy and havingfitz just doesn't make sense to me.In post 340, outoforder wrote:I am townreading him because of his posts on MooginSoosy (who i am also suspicious of for reasons i will outline soon). And because of WHY he townreads you, not just because he townreads you -- since i share the opinion of why you are town as i pointed earlier.
Basically - if you go read MooginSoosy's posts, she gave townreads on me, Rels and Creature.
When being prodded about the townreads she retracted from all of them except for the townread on me. I don't understand why he townread Rels and Creature in the first place, since there is no real explanation. Basically the read on Rels she has shouldn't have been a townread in the first place since almost everything Rels has posted is why she retracted from the read... I don't understand the read - or the change of read - on Creature at all. I don't see the thoguht process. I don't understand the read on me either since she literally said she has a townread on me for a post she doesn't know why i even posted that?!?!?!? I mean like, wtf does that even mean or how can she come to a such conclusion. And i certainly don't like her vote on doomfeathers since i heavily disagree with the case.
fitz' big post didn't change anything for me regarding the read on him. Still think he is likely to be mafia.
hapahauli needs to do more shit, right now he doesn't look good (basically playing way below his town!play level imo). While i am not certain he is mafia i was before, i definitely don't have a town read on him.
Fredrick E Campbell gets a scumlean for what i said before. I don't understand how someone can read the thread in that kinda manner. For me it looks like he is just taking some random things at a random time to cprod on them without actually thinking why people even do the stuff they do.
Basically this is where i stand:
town (in no specific order other than Rels):
Aubrey
Kop
KidAmn
doomfeathers
Creature
Rels
Useless / undecided on:
Allomancer*
hapahauli
Current scumreads (the lower - more scummy):
MooginSoosy / Fredrick E Campbell
havingfitz
- with you initially stating you had a "slight" scumread on him due to something Aubrey posted. That last quote is the only point you've been actively pushing on Fitz on all day; meanwhile Fitz has repeatedly asked you to state a case beyond this with no detailed response from you beyond complaining about his walls having no substance in #1006 (which I strongly disagree with).In post 869, outoforder wrote:Btw i still think havingfitz is scum. I went to reread his filter and what he basically did in his wall of text was this:\
- I don't like wall of texts -> writes a wall of text -> the conclusion he ends up in is "now let me continue and post my reads later".......
VOTE: havingfitz
Second quote: You're literally stating you're going to ignore a player. I cordially invite you to explain precisely how that (and indeed all the other outright personal attacks you have made on players throughout this game so far) is a pro-town attitude.
Third quote is a blatant misrep, that only references "all over the place" in Fitz' ISO #10 (#523) while ignoring
And the fact this line was snipped from a post over 2 weeks ago.He entered the game very reluctant to provide any legitimate responses and/or blew off questions. He has expressed a willingness to vote "almost" anyone. His flips in opinion on me (and his buddy Aubrey) have come seemingly out of nowhere and I fail to see any pro-town content coming from him.
I am 100% behind an OoO lynch even without any of what I've provided above, because the player has been remarkably unpleasant to multiple players, to the point that given what I've read of MS rules I am frankly amazed he is still here. Thankfully, the amount of misrep and ad hom over actual town-posting makes me fairly sure the slot is scum regardless.
VOTE: Outoforder
PEDIT:
What a surprise, as soon as I express suspicion of Ooo I'm back up on his suspect list already, when not too long ago...outoforder wrote:
I kinda think Kop is town too because after Aubrey wagon got derailed i believe scum were trying to lynch Kop. That has to be the case unless we assume scum are playing like complete idiots and didn't even try to get anyone lynched. I also believe there is never more than 1 mafia in the Hawk wagon, so at least one of Hapa and Rels has to be town. For your townreads i do agree.In post 1416, Creature wrote:You, BV, Cass and momo town. Am I missing someone?
Basically i am left with:
havingfitz
KidAmn
(Hapa/Rels)
Rels had some posts that i found out possibly coming from scum!Rels. Hapa wagon was gladly accepted by almost all of the players, so idk.. that probably makes him town? I have to look back and see who actually weren't willing to lynch Hapa and if that could mean something. KidAmn fits as scum though, since while imo he was one of the "easy lynches" for scum to try push on (if town), he wasn't really being pushed while making some posts i found super irrational.
Idk if Rels would vote for Hawk like that as mafia so i am puzzled about that too. I'd have to check back some older games and how Rels has played as mafia when i get a chance to. The fact however is that Rels is usually a player who tries to drive the thread as scum, and there are a LOOOOT of "good" cases to be made (from scum perspective) on D1. I am not quite sure why he didn't take the chance assuming he is scum as he for sure had plenty of those chances.
With a healthy dose of more blatant lying - apparently being at L-2 for a significant chunk of yesterday doesn't count as being pushed v0vIn post 976, outoforder wrote:And btw KidAm is not fucking mafia...-
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YOUR CASE IS 3 SENTENCES LONG AND HAS NEVER BEEN EXPANDED ON. FITZ HAS NOT ASKED YOU TO "MAKE ANOTHER CASE", HE JUST WANTS MORE THAN A GODDAMN PARAGRAPH.In post 1421, outoforder wrote:
So basically in your world when someone makes a case and the person answers "make another case as you don't have one" the first player needs to provide another case?- with you initially stating you had a "slight" scumread on him due to something Aubrey posted. That last quote is the only point you've been actively pushing on Fitz on all day; meanwhile Fitz has repeatedly asked you to state a case beyond this with no detailed response from you beyond complaining about his walls having no substance in #1006 (which I strongly disagree with).
idk how this even... rofl :p
My case is perfectly logical. I haven't ad hom'd anyone. I have called out bad as bad. If that's ad hom in your opinion you have done the same yourself, multiple times. You have literally - yourself - called other players bad and dumb so there you go.
I haven't ad hom'd anyone.In post 55, outoforder wrote:I think you lack a lot of reading comprehension.In post 118, outoforder wrote: I wasn't refusing to give answers, i was saying i will delay my answer for the reason in the quote above. Somehow this KidAm dude cannot process that... It seems like he just actually believes in his argument and for some reason cannot understand the posts i (and apparently other people aswell?) write.In post 1016, outoforder wrote:No it isnt. Maybe you are just not bright but i explained it at least three times....In post 1012, outoforder wrote:Wtf are yoy doing? I want an answer. That is terrible man.In post 1159, outoforder wrote:I have also decided that cassielle is town and i wont be reading any of her posts because they make literally zero sense.
Uh-huh.In post 1413, outoforder wrote:And speaking of talking shit you are getting on my nerves really hard because YOU are the ONLY person who filled this fucking thread with shit for the last three pages or so. So try to get some fucking grip and start playing mafia.-
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In post 1449, outoforder wrote:
At least i am basically waiting for seeing where BlackVoid stands.In post 1447, Creature wrote:BlackVoid will come here and will do a "small fix" on this outoforder wagon.
Also interested in where Hapa and Rels stand after D1 and with the new information on the table.
We are pretty much on the same page and i have not much interest in Kop since based on VCA i don't think he can be scum.
Letting momo to catch up and i don't really think his slot is scum here anyways. Discussing anything with cassielle or KidAmn seems like a dead end and both of them are voting for me because they don't like me so i don't even really feel the need, or care to defend myself against that.
So to misrep and adhom we can now add appeal to authority and false equivalency (this thing would never happen in regular games so it clearly wouldn't happen in a game where everyone is either scum or a 1-shot PGO).In post 1450, outoforder wrote:Creature (or anyone with like over 10 games of experience on this site):
How likely it is that mafia would try to "derail" a D1 lynch on their partner into a no-lynch by making a case on another partner of theirs? Basically do no-lynches happen, and if yes, how often, in IML games (D1)?-
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I'm still trying to work out just what your actual case for me as scum is, because the most you've done is a series of spammy single line posts that have decided on and then dismissed Hapa as scum, and decided I must be scum with Fitz because... Reasons? Which you've never given? And prior to this the most you've done is quote a bunch of my posts and vote me. If anyone deserves to be accused of not caring enough about their wagon it's you imo, your posts say almost nothing in terms of actual reasoning.In post 1537, Rels wrote:yeah that what makes the most sense. Apart from that one Hawk post that made me think Hawk / KidDamn would be weird:
But it makes waaaay more sense than any other scum team.In post 789, Hawk wrote:
OMG the amount of times that this response has been the first lynch in games is ridiculous.In post 788, KidAmn wrote:Like I said, I don't really give a damn about this game, it's more about the three amigos having a circlejerk and apparently someone else backing off means I don't get to have a case so fuck it, do whatever.
Kid come on give a case or if that one's falling through push your second scumread don't just resign to defeat. You're at like what L-4?
Who's been pinging you lately? Who's posts just haven't been up to scruff??-
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KidAmn Mafia Scum
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Deadline was around 3am my time on a workday. Not happening, didn't realise timezones were scumreads now.In post 1539, Rels wrote:
- POE. Almost everyone else is townier than you.In post 1538, KidAmn wrote:
I'm still trying to work out just what your actual case for me as scum is, because the most you've done is a series of spammy single line posts that have decided on and then dismissed Hapa as scum, and decided I must be scum with Fitz because... Reasons? Which you've never given? And prior to this the most you've done is quote a bunch of my posts and vote me. If anyone deserves to be accused of not caring enough about their wagon it's you imo, your posts say almost nothing in terms of actual reasoning.In post 1537, Rels wrote:yeah that what makes the most sense. Apart from that one Hawk post that made me think Hawk / KidDamn would be weird:
But it makes waaaay more sense than any other scum team.In post 789, Hawk wrote:
OMG the amount of times that this response has been the first lynch in games is ridiculous.In post 788, KidAmn wrote:Like I said, I don't really give a damn about this game, it's more about the three amigos having a circlejerk and apparently someone else backing off means I don't get to have a case so fuck it, do whatever.
Kid come on give a case or if that one's falling through push your second scumread don't just resign to defeat. You're at like what L-4?
Who's been pinging you lately? Who's posts just haven't been up to scruff??
- Partner POE. Lots of people don't make sense together as a scum team. You on the contrary makes sense with Fitz. You have talk about him quite a lot, you're attacking OOO for his Fitz read actually, but I don't see you having an opinion on him.
- Your defense against Hapa's pressure. It was scummy. Very scummy. Like a scum who got caught. OMGUS, stretching reasons to attack his opponent.
- Your play since then. Mostly forgettable. Wasn't there for the deadline, didn't vote Hawk.
Why if Fitz town ?
My play is "Mostly forgettable" Come up with something objective and I might actually respond to it.
My main scumread is pushing Fitz for reasons you yourself admitted on D1 had almost nothing tangible behind them. Fitz has mostly been VLA and the whole thing feels like a very desperate and unpleasantly aggressive Ooo trying to push a mismatch on very little case and lots of "omg look at this lurking scum omg his walls have nothing because I say so". I didn't agree with the case D1 and the insistence combined with the attacks on people who disagree from Ooo and yourself feels off. That's why I think he's town, and I would love to hear why you think I would go to bat for someone this hard if you genuinely think I'm in a scumteam with them, having already lost 1 out of 3.
Incidentally, repeatedly calling my calling out of Hapa's hypocrisy in his D1 case on me OMGUS will not make it true.-
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Are you really saying that you wouldn't lean town on someone being pushed by your main scumread?In post 1543, Rels wrote:
So the only thing pointing at Fitz being town is that scummy people are pushing for him ?In post 1541, KidAmn wrote: My main scumread is pushing Fitz for reasons you yourself admitted on D1 had almost nothing tangible behind them. Fitz has mostly been VLA and the whole thing feels like a very desperate and unpleasantly aggressive Ooo trying to push a mismatch on very little case and lots of "omg look at this lurking scum omg his walls have nothing because I say so". I didn't agree with the case D1 and the insistence combined with the attacks on people who disagree from Ooo and yourself feels off. That's why I think he's town, andI would love to hear why you think I would go to bat for someone this hard if you genuinely think I'm in a scumteam with them, having already lost 1 out of 3.
I also don't understand the bolded. "Why would you try to get your teammate out of the lynch when you already lost 1 out of 3" ? Well, the answer is in the question.
Stretching reasons to calling your attacker scum then getting the fuck out of the thread in frustration is actually exactly that.In post 1541, KidAmn wrote: Incidentally, repeatedly calling my calling out of Hapa's hypocrisy in his D1 case on me OMGUS will not make it true.
And again: repeatedly saying a thing doesn't make it true.-
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Nah, that shit didn't fly D1, it doesnt fly now either.In post 1548, cassielle wrote:i have thoughts on the rels/kidamn interaction going on but im saving them while i wait for the big damn mistake that's a-coming down the pipe
someone in this thread isnt paying attention and i won't say whooooo-
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Fair point - looking back you said he was either skimreading or cherrypicking, which is where I picked that up from. The amended question still stands with regards to where Rels has misrepresented, intent notwithstanding.In post 1671, cassielle wrote:
i never ever said deliberately misinterpretedIn post 1669, KidAmn wrote:Would like to see where exactly Cass thinks Rels has deliberately misinterpreted me. FWIW I think most of his arguments have come from a point of good faith so I'm wondering what Cass thinks she's seen that I haven't.-
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Oh, that's it? From the way you talked it up I assumed it was something new, hence the confusion.In post 1675, cassielle wrote:
idk why i need to point it out to you when you pointed it out yourself but i mean lets do thisIn post 1541, KidAmn wrote:
Deadline was around 3am my time on a workday. Not happening, didn't realise timezones were scumreads now.In post 1539, Rels wrote:
- POE. Almost everyone else is townier than you.In post 1538, KidAmn wrote:
I'm still trying to work out just what your actual case for me as scum is, because the most you've done is a series of spammy single line posts that have decided on and then dismissed Hapa as scum, and decided I must be scum with Fitz because... Reasons? Which you've never given? And prior to this the most you've done is quote a bunch of my posts and vote me. If anyone deserves to be accused of not caring enough about their wagon it's you imo, your posts say almost nothing in terms of actual reasoning.In post 1537, Rels wrote:yeah that what makes the most sense. Apart from that one Hawk post that made me think Hawk / KidDamn would be weird:
But it makes waaaay more sense than any other scum team.In post 789, Hawk wrote:
OMG the amount of times that this response has been the first lynch in games is ridiculous.In post 788, KidAmn wrote:Like I said, I don't really give a damn about this game, it's more about the three amigos having a circlejerk and apparently someone else backing off means I don't get to have a case so fuck it, do whatever.
Kid come on give a case or if that one's falling through push your second scumread don't just resign to defeat. You're at like what L-4?
Who's been pinging you lately? Who's posts just haven't been up to scruff??
- Partner POE. Lots of people don't make sense together as a scum team. You on the contrary makes sense with Fitz. You have talk about him quite a lot, you're attacking OOO for his Fitz read actually, but I don't see you having an opinion on him.
- Your defense against Hapa's pressure. It was scummy. Very scummy. Like a scum who got caught. OMGUS, stretching reasons to attack his opponent.
- Your play since then. Mostly forgettable. Wasn't there for the deadline, didn't vote Hawk.
Why if Fitz town ?
My play is "Mostly forgettable" Come up with something objective and I might actually respond to it.
My main scumread is pushing Fitz for reasons you yourself admitted on D1 had almost nothing tangible behind them. Fitz has mostly been VLA and the whole thing feels like a very desperate and unpleasantly aggressive Ooo trying to push a mismatch on very little case and lots of "omg look at this lurking scum omg his walls have nothing because I say so". I didn't agree with the case D1 and the insistence combined with the attacks on people who disagree from Ooo and yourself feels off. That's why I think he's town, and I would love to hear why you think I would go to bat for someone this hard if you genuinely think I'm in a scumteam with them, having already lost 1 out of 3.
Incidentally, repeatedly calling my calling out of Hapa's hypocrisy in his D1 case on me OMGUS will not make it true.
Spoiler: quotedump
misrep because you clearly outlined (TWICE) why precisely your vote wasnt OMGUS, you gave him information that should have jogged his memory ("pointing out his hypocrisy"), you all but started waving your arms at the posts and yelling "LOOK WITH YOUR EYES HERE MAN WTF" and he still said the same things about what you were doing
reminder: not reading is not in and of itself scum (though it has strengthened my PRE-EXISTING scumread of his slot due to being lightly indicative of scum)
but its important to point out regardless
why?
because it sets a baseline for how his slot plays at this point in time, which turns NAI posts into AI strategic play in some cases
so i pointed it out while it was still the case /and/ after it looked like he wasnt going to continue to inflate the amount of evidence of it-
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I'm hesitant because several people I'm leery of are in favour of it, especially the fact that Ooo is posting shit like thisIn post 1749, cassielle wrote:
and so someone doesnt know what nightkill analysis is or is trying to obfuscate and redirectIn post 1746, havingfitz wrote:I get poe....some of my reads are based on it. But how is Aubrey linked to me giving he was pretty much confirmed town? I don't see anyone being implicated by Aubrey's nk.
Now if people want to hold my Aubrey suspicions against me in light of his flip...that's different. Misguided but more valid.
so i ask again: anyone saying no to a fitz lynch?
VOTE: havingfitz
Which is full of alternative facts (Hapa cannot be scum with anyone but Creature and Cass) and "Lynch these 3 and you win the game" which is one of those too good to be true things (especially given I know that I'm on that list as town which means at least one of those lynches is a mislynch). I get very wary of anyone, no matter how strong a townread I might have on them, who presents a list of things YOU MUST DO AND YOU WILL WIN GAME (outside of very specific and obvious scenarios obviously) and Ooo hasn't qualified as a townread in any sense of the word in a long time.In post 1710, outoforder wrote:Hapahauli cannot possibly be mafia with anyone in this game except for maybe Creature and Cassielle and neither of those combinations make any sense to me. So there is that.
If you wanna lynch Hapa i'll put my own game in the line because i actually feel that strong about it right now. If you want to lynch Hapa the only player he really makes sense as mafia is me, so i propose that you lynch me instead of him.
Then you just don't get retarded and lynch. Then you can still lynch both ofhavingfitzKidAmn and Rels.
And that's going to win the game. We can afford 2 mislynches.
I will help you with self-voting if that's the case.
I'd rather lynch mafia though.
The amount of aggro followed by weird roundabout agreement between Ooo and Cass is bothering me too. Not sure if hatef**k or they're doing exactly what Cass purported to believe Rels/Ooo to be doing, but the fact Cass went from
to jumping on the wagon Ooo wanted in the space of ~2 pagesIn post 1711, cassielle wrote: the problem with this is WIFOM
would scum say this to get the towncred of saying it? we dont/cant know
i mean i know you put effort into this post and all but all im thinking atm is "sure, lets do that" because that possible-bluff almost deserves calling
VOTE: outoforder
So yeah, to answer your question, right now I emphatically do not want any part of this wagon.-
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Yeah, I get it, you see all and know all, it's terribly amusing the first dozen or so times and all.In post 1758, outoforder wrote:IT doesn't really surprise me you are not in favor of this....-
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In post 1164, havingfitz wrote:
I suspect cass and still think this post is scummy.In post 1159, outoforder wrote:I have also decided that cassielle is town and i wont be reading any of her posts because they make literally zero sense.
You have ignored repeated questions by me to you...I have seen no case by you on me...and you have a tendency to ad-hom players and/or disparage their ability.
OoO wagon would work as well.In post 1207, havingfitz wrote:
You have ignored repeated questions by me to you...I have seen no case by you on me...and you have a tendency to ad-hom players and/or disparage their ability.In post 1176, outoforder wrote:I seriously believe we should murder fitz, or possibly Kop. Maybe hawk is the third scum but idk. I am not too confident on that.
Can you guys please go read fitz' filter and tell me how any of his reasoning for scumreads ever makes anyone mafia?
OoO wagon would work as well.2) This is a misrep...I do not believe I have laid out why I suspect you. And if I inferred reasons somewherethey certainly did not include suspecting you because you're a dick. That's NAI. You say I list that as a reason for you being mafia....show me where I say that. You are LYING once again.
Hapa's willingness to skirt around the prod, avoid attracting attention and promise content without delivering any, after coming damn close to the noose D1 with damn good reason, are even more good reasons than they were 3 days ago to put up a wagon there IMO. However, seeing as how Fitz has just been caught in what I'm fairly sure is at least one lie... I'm willing to hear a response, but the most Fitz waffles and the more things like this pop up, the less emphatically I'm against the wagon.Creature wrote:havingfitz seemed bad, but I'm not certain he's scum.
hapahauli I'm somewhat certain, he's pretty under the radar and seems happy with havingfitz' lynch.-
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KidAmn Mafia Scum
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The two posts quoted have, as part of Fitz' list of grievances prior to the statement "Ooo wagon would work as well", accusing Ooo of Ad-hom and disparaging others abilities. I don't think it's a stretch to say that falls under inferring that Ooo is a dick as part of why Fitz wants him lynched.In post 1804, Creature wrote:What is his lie?-
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KidAmn Mafia Scum
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Inclined to think Fitz is tunnelling on Ooo with his counter-case and hapa just straight up doesn't want to post anything more than a prod-dodge.In post 1805, Creature wrote:
You know what? Atleast one of them should've been voting the other.In post 1793, Tenshii wrote:Not voting: hapahauli, havingfitz-
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KidAmn Mafia Scum
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