Alrighty.
So the first meaningful post i made this game was this post:
In post 11, outoforder wrote:I've always wondered why people actually pick the people they do vote at the start of the game. I don't actually believe anyone ever goes to random.org or rolls a dice or something like that.
I often write posts where my intention is to challenge people to read between the lines and think about why people say what they do rather than what do they say, because i find that important. In this post i was trying to heavily imply that i don't believe RVS is the best way to start the game, nor will i participate. If that is the conclusion one gets from my post, they should automatically assume that they literally gather nothing from voting for me, since (truthfully) i will not feel pressured even if i was mafia, i won't give away my alignment if i am mafia because of some random nonsense votes on me. I obviously understand this is not something like "if you vote for me after that you're scum", not at all, but it STILL gives me information about how people read posts and what do they focus on when reading. In other words, i know what to expect from them in future.
Therefore when MooginSoosy votes for me my initial impression is "wow, she definitely did not think about what she just read at all". Obviously she was joking, that's a no-brainer for anyone with any brain, but her post has literally no way of achieving anything at all. Especially when she doesn't know me, and how i play. What if i am a super newbie townie who gets scared of votes on me? What if i get angry because of dumb votes on me? Like even if you "randomly" vote for someone the vote might provoke a "wrong" reaction and a lot of early game reads for you guys who play here - i think - still come from the reactions to the votes, correct?
So what i do conclude, regarding MooginSoosy (and to havingfitz too), is that if they are town they are probably going to be a pain in the ass to convince of anything i think is true because they will not be getting what i am saying. Or they are mafia, who just like to make people possibly annoyed so they can call them out for that later on. Or for some reason they think it's funny to just fuck around and not pay attention to why people write what they do. Now i didn't expect Rels to 100% pick this up, but IF he does pick this up, he is most likely going to be town in this game since his scumgame (while being quite good), lacks "going into depths of posts", and it's impossible to emulate a townie trait like that as mafia since you are playing from a completely different mindset. That's why i painted actually a possibly very telling question into something that looks like very casual. The reason i directed the question to Rels specifically is because he is the ONLY person in the game whose answer, whatever the answer is, might actually tell me something about his alignment. He thinks very alike me when he is town so there is like no way anyone else would have picked up on that. Also based on the above, and knowing Rels
could assume
(if mafia), that i will need a specific answer from him it boilds down to this:
1) If Rels has put his head 110% into the game and sees what i just explained, i can safely conclude that he is town
2) If Rels makes up some bullshit "this post probably means that", he is probably scum
3) If Rels gives the not-so-in-depth answer of "she was just probably joking", i don't learn anything about his alignment. Which is what happened.
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Now next thing up is KidAm. I honestly believed that writing this:
Answering to that right now would totally make my question to Rels useless now would it?
..to Kop would actually make you people realize i will give you an explanation when i have heard Rels' answer, and then, if someone has something they wanna say about it they do follow up. I didn't think people would actually think like a lot of people apparently do in this game. If i ask someone "What do you think of X", what's the point of telling them (or everyone) what i expect to be a townie answer and/or what do i expect to be a scummy answer? That's just straight up dumb because imagine i am actually poking a mafia and say "Hey, tell me what do you think of X? If you are town you will say Y and if mafia, you'll say Z". What's the point of giving the answers you (will) find townie before the other dude has answered?!?!
I never ever backpedalled from anything, nor did i invent any mini-game, other people did that. I have NEVER said "don't ever talk about this" - the only thing i constantly told doomsfeather is that i wanna hear from Rels first and then he can make a decision if i make sense or not. I wasn't refusing to give answers, i was saying i will delay my answer for the reason in the quote above. Somehow this KidAm dude cannot process that. Instead he makes conclusions from my posts, conclusions that make absolutely no sense since i never did anything even close to what he is telling i did. I kinda hate that, just like i hate many people yelling "OMGUS" when someone votes for a person who made a terribly scummy case on them and explains why the case is scummy. Sometimes it feels like some people think "whenever two people vote for each other the second vote is OMGUS by definition" which is horribly wrong, just as wrong as saying i somehow backpedalled from something since i never did such a thing.
Anyways i believe he is town. I fully understand people don't necessarily share the sentiment, and definitely don't share my reasoning (since you don't know if i am town or not). If KidAm was mafia he would have to know i am town - therefore he would also have to know i am telling the truth about what i am saying. Therefore he would know his "backpedalling" argument doesn't make any sense. I don't believe he would argue so strongly for it as mafia -- especially since it has been pointed out by three different people that he is wrong. It seems like he just actually believes in his argument and for some reason cannot understand the posts i (and apparently other people aswell?) write.
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I also have a town lean on Aubrey, for his psot #117 and the comment + vote on Havingfitz, since i share the same thought about his play. Town lean on doomsfeather, for being actually level-headed (i know this is not necessarly always a town trait), because in the argument we were in, it would have been easy for him to just push it forward as mafia since the thread sentiment was following the thought he was originally pushing. It would have been like a win-win scenario, noone is gonna call you out on it and at worst you just waste town's time on talking about something dumb. I also think Rels has made a couple of smart posts, regarding hapahauli in #109 and pushing Creature to play. It doesn't really seem like he is hard-reading him scum.
Basically everyone else is a complete non-entity. Except for Havingfitz who i have a slight scumlean on for reasons Aubrey outlined, and Hapahauli who i honestly think is mafia.
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Here is the reasoning. I already talked about this here:
This is what i believe to be a fact. You don't tend to participate in RVS / pressure vote shennies at D1 start, especailly towards a player you MUST know to not respond to being "pressured" by giving away his alignment as mafia. I mean like if i was scum i couldn't care less that there are people voting for me over absolutely nothing. You know that aswell so the only conclusions i can come to are that either (1) you actually think i am mafia, or (2) you are mafia.
So why do you think i am mafia? You really couldn't think i could possibly have - at this point of the game - a specific question to a specific player that i would not feel the need to ask you aswell, just because i have played with both of you before? In case there is option (3) aswell, feel free to tell me what that is.
I never did get any answer other than "just for the lulz". I don't believe hapahauli votes (especially votes for ME) just for the lulz. If he is town it's just unproductive and he knows that. I literally just don't believe his explanation, because it doesn't make any sense, and for a highly rational player - who is actually very good as town in this game - it indicates mafia. Furthermore the explanation does not line up with what he was posting earlier.
Another thing is his KidAm read. Now look at this post:
In post 97, hapahauli wrote:
[...]
That being said...
2nd is simply untrue again - as I explained before, the issue wasn't the conversation itself, but the refusal to discuss further with anyone else until the conversation happened, and the issue of backpedalling was that Ooo told DF to back off, then went back in #53 and tried to explain how he wasn't really telling him to back off
This makes sense.
UNVOTE:
Okay so, hapahauli retracts from his scumread on KidAm. I don't think there is necessarily anything wrong in it. The problem lays in what he
leaves unsaid.
Now if hapahauli thinks KidAm is making sense he also MUST think that:
1) my refusal to discuss further with anyone else until the conversation happened is scummy / doesn't logically make sense
2) i backpedalled from something
If those two things are not true, there is no reason for hapahauli to retract from his KidAm scumread. Furthermore, if those things ARE true (in his mind), that should also ALWAYS make me mafia in his mind (because yes - if things KidAm lays out here are true, i am 100% mafia - and hapahauli very well knows that).
It doesn't make any sense for him to back off from a scumread in that manner and not follow it up with a vote on me, since logically he should consider me mafia if he is not lying about the "this makes sense" -part.
VOTE: Hapahauli
Well, at least outoforder gets company.
