OPEN 663: STACK THE DECK (GAME OVER)
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Desperado Survivor
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Desperado Survivor
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No I'm not. I tried to explain to you more than once why Kop's actions were consistent (and that even if you didn't buy that, that inconsistency didn't necessarily make him scum). You didn't agree with me, and that's fine, but don't sugarcoat what happened.In post 1965, Regfan wrote:@Desperado - I'd like you to sell me on ThingBig being mafia in the best way you can. The logic you presented yesterday still doesn't do anywhere near enough for me alone and I actually find your comments re; your stance on Kop very disingenuous today, you're massively over-exaggerating it.
At this point I don't care if you think my case wasn't good. Nothing has changed, ThinkBig hasn't done ANYTHING except sheep you once you took him off the table. He's just fucking scum, dude.-
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This isn't true. I've given reads on every single player alive.In post 1980, Dunnstral wrote:And desperado is tunneling someone I believe to be town and also won't reconsider his reads and won't give reads on the rest of living players - also there's just something off in general about him... I think he could rather easily be scum (as in, that's an easy read for me to make)-
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Seriously Reg, I know you're reading my posts so why are you just making this shit up??? I have made substantial comments on every slot. I have good reasons for town and scum reading everyone alive. I told you guys Kop was real yesterday, and then the other claimed PR got shot. Literally nothing has changed from the middle of D2.In post 1984, Regfan wrote:@Dunnstral - The point about Supers read on Dave is a solid one and I'd like for him to explain his read there too. I think Desperados tunnel on ThingBig makes some sense as both alignments; As town wanting to go back to his original scum read upon a town flip or as scum wanting to find an easy avenue to push that doesn't create new enemies. It's his attitude while doing such and his comments (and lack thereof) about other players while doing it which I find highly concerning so I agree with you there.-
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In post 783, Desperado wrote:
Ya, Think is scum framing Kop with the SSBM kill.In post 766, ThinkBig wrote:Interesting night kill.
This is damming. Why would ssbm be targeted by the mafia over the innocent child?In post 714, ssbm_Kyouko wrote:but yeah im onto something i think so, completely unacceptable imo. If Kop/AH are both town I thinkif im not here to remind yall about kop in the morning please revisit his last few posts of the dayGamma/Dave/Alisae
HOS on Kop and Gamma. I really don't like how AH derailed gamma's wagon. I'm willing to vote for either kop or gamma.In post 791, Desperado wrote:...did you read what he said?
He thinks you're scum because AH derailed your wagon. He thinks Kop is scum because SSBM is dead.
So yes, just Kop.In post 1226, Desperado wrote:
I'm not ready to flip my interpretation of the game state completely and I don't want to vote dave or Ali. I think they're town, I think scum really thought I was the traitor, and that's why a wagon never materialized on me despite all of the traitor talk d1.In post 1223, Regfan wrote:
Can you run me through your vote placement on Kop over Hans in that case? I mean I certainly don't mind it, I just want to hear your thought process behind it since it's not walked through inside your ISO. Also did you ever take a quick look at TB's meta (If so before or after I replaced in)? Would also like your read on Dunn & Alisea so we can discuss the similarities/differences between our reads there when I'm done reading them.In post 1222, Desperado wrote:@ Reg: I think it was the former and I think Hans has been snowing me all day
I didn't look at his meta and haven't since you replaced in, no. I'm taking your word for it.
For Ali, see above. For Dunn, I can't really point to anything specific, I just feel town emanating from his posts and have all game.In post 1234, Desperado wrote:Why did I select Kop over any else? Let's see...
Gamma - PR claim
Ali - Traitor push
Dave - Ditto
Dunn - Town
Real - Town
ThinkBig - Not happening today
That leaves Kop and Superhans. Don't really think I need to explain why I would make that choice.In post 1376, Desperado wrote:
You still feel confident lynching a claimed roleblocker?In post 1373, Superhans wrote:Yeh, but I don't think the scum case on ThinkBig is bollocks, just I feel more confident lynching Kop today. Your latest scumpush on TB is not compelling.In post 1399, Desperado wrote:In post 1396, ThinkBig wrote:@regfan. Good points. I looked through his ISO and not once did he mention SRing ssbm. He did, however, vote for and SR Gamma. Why would he RB ssbm over Gamma?In post 212, Kop wrote:In post 210, ssbm_Kyouko wrote:
I want to lynch realeo. He's used doctor and cop emojis already, I think he's trying to setup fakeclaim crumbs and needs ropeIn post 200, Dunnstral wrote:I don't want to lynch RealeoIn post 211, ssbm_Kyouko wrote:also if maf didn't recruit the traitor he could be making obvious PR crumbs to try to get his team to shoot him and recruit him if he's the traitor
These are baseless accusations. They hold no truth or any argument that can hold any water, using them emojis doesn't exactly have a warrant to lynch him, based on that.
As for your second point, that's wrong. If I'm recalling correctly, if they shoot the traitor, he dies. I once had the traitor role and mafia shot me, and I died. I didn't join them.
I'd choose to push a lynch between you, or Superhans right now.In post 380, Kop wrote:In post 352, ssbm_Kyouko wrote:AH what's your opinion on Gamma's vote on Desperado, and Desperado's sudden swap from voting Gamma to you?
Desperado, you switched from voting Gamma to voting the player defending Gamma pretty abruptly, can you further explain both of those votes because right now it looks like you're getting onto easy wagons
VOTE: Desperado
Why does Desperados vote steady your hand because it was naked?In post 364, ssbm_Kyouko wrote:@Desperado - Yeah, looked like really bad reasoning to me which is why I'm asking him questions. Didn't see anything specific about Thinkbig that would have made AH pick him off the Gamma wagon which makes me think his motivation there was to derail the Gamma wagon, rather than to find scum on it. I guess your vote makes sense, and I was going to vote AH when I read his TB case and looked into the votes on Gamma, but then I saw you vote AH and that steadies my hand a bit because your vote was naked and had just swapped from the leading (but losing traction) Gamma wagon onto the rapidly growing AH wagon. Anyways, as I write this post I realize there's better reason to vote for him being scummy than there is to not vote him because his wagon is moving fast.
VOTE: Antihuman
You mentioned before about getting onto easy wagons, haven't you done the same?In post 1544, Desperado wrote:I still think Kop is real but any cache I had in this game evaporated a while ago so w/eIn post 1557, Desperado wrote:Not taking at least one of daytalk, recruitment, or the JOAT is just bizarre to me. You can do without the BP and the Role Cop if you aren't taking a lot of power, and I can understand either doing both recruitment and daytalk or neither, but the JOAT deals with every power role the town can potentially get and is extremely powerful.
I think Kop's claim makes sense, I understand why he chose SSBM over Gamma, and I also don't think claiming roleblocked on a living player is nearly as dangerous as you've been suggesting, especially with Gamma having already outed; that leaves only one role left (tracker) that could counterclaim Kop's roleblock. If anything, I think Kop as scum would understand that claiming a block on the dead is going to look suspicious and, already at L-1, it would be optimal to take the 1/7 chance that he claims to have blocked a tracker with a result by accident.In post 1568, Desperado wrote:
AH flipped traitor and everything changed.In post 1564, Regfan wrote:@Desp - I personally consider the JOAT very weak in this setup, it's only 2 1-shot abilities and using them optimally is difficult to do. In regards to Kop claiming to roleblock SSBM I think at the moment it's less fear of what other claims there might have been (Because if he's scum he knows there's no other) but the fact that he genuinelycouldn'tclaim a roleblock on a living player; he would have to explain why he never voted or stated a scum read on the player coming into D2 where he voted Gamma.
I had them as town but I got paranoid over night so I wanted to make sure.
Etc. etc. etc.
Do you often find it difficult to explain night actions as scum?In post 1646, Desperado wrote:And if Kop is real as I suspect then nothing is confirmed, which is why I would have rathered lynching outside of the claims.-
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Desperado Survivor
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Nydus is Alisae and I am the originator of "Alisae wouldn't call me out and push me as traitor as scum."In post 2009, Regfan wrote:You have made no mention of Nydus today and minimal mention of him yesterday.
You have made no real mention of Realeo today at all.
You have very little thoughts on Dunn out in the thread at the moment.
You have limited thoughts on Dave.
The only people I can agree you've elaborated somewhat into today is ThingBig & SuperHans.
Realeo has been town the entire game. I haven't wavered on this.
Dunn has been town the entire game. I haven't wavered on this.
Dave is town for the same reason Alisae is.
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Desperado Survivor
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You'll never see it that way but that was a serious townslip on my part.In post 2017, Regfan wrote:The bolded is a big exaggeration; you had 4-5 posts where you disagreed with some of the reasoning presented for him being scum via his role claim and had a singular post where you called him town, that's the extent of your "defending him". And what you would/wouldn't have done as scum re; picks this setup is irrelevant given you replaced in thus would have had no decision on the matter. The problem I have here is that your play today looks like an attempt to grab town-cred from the Kop flip by defending him when the majority of the time you were defending him via him being a PR/ not buying the PRscumcase rather than actually town reading him.-
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In post 474, Alisae wrote:I'll get to my thoughts about the last 11 pages later, I'm gonna go to bed actually pretty soon.
But yeah, I'm just gonna leave this here
VOTE: Desperado
Obvious TraitorIn post 487, Alisae wrote:
Ye.In post 485, Desperado wrote:
So do you still think Antihuman is scum?In post 474, Alisae wrote:I'll get to my thoughts about the last 11 pages later, I'm gonna go to bed actually pretty soon.
But yeah, I'm just gonna leave this here
VOTE: Desperado
Obvious TraitorIn post 486, Dunnstral wrote:In post 476, Realeo wrote:
Desperado obv Traitor, maybe...In post 474, Alisae wrote:I'll get to my thoughts about the last 11 pages later, I'm gonna go to bed actually pretty soon.
But yeah, I'm just gonna leave this here
VOTE: Desperado
Obvious Traitor
But Desperado + MariaR -> traitor... I don'k think so.
What are you talking about
What does MariaR have to do with itThis. I basicly saw this and thought traitor. Yes it's probably mocking TB, but Traitors want to make it very obvious to their scumteam that they are the traitor. You seriously have no idea how obvious they will be just to show that they are the traitor.
The strength of the push is irrelevant.In post 540, davesaz wrote:Just realized I've been reading but not posting.
In retrospect I think MariaR did indeed crumb traitor. Too late at night to dig further but I can vote at least.
VOTE: Desperado
In post 540, davesaz wrote:Just realized I've been reading but not posting.
In retrospect I think MariaR did indeed crumb traitor. Too late at night to dig further but I can vote at least.
VOTE: Desperado
This post does not come from scum.-
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His point was that I didn't defend Kop hard enough; he just ignored (oh no, playing the victim again!) the other posts where I did explain with clarity why I believed Kop was real when no one else offered even token resistance.In post 2037, Realeo wrote:Since British people are poetic and poem are enemy of foreign speaker, your point is?
But no, I'm scummy because I'm trying to take too much credit. Great job, good effort.-
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Kop claims in 1311. I catch up and unvote/vote back to ThinkBig in 1327. Then Hans and I get in to an extended argument, I vote him, he says he's still fine lynching Kop and in 1376 I question this.
Then Reg says there's a serious flaw in his claim in 1384, we talk about it, and 1397 and 1399 are both attempts to defend Kop. Then we mass claim which takes a couple pages and regfan basically reiterates 1384 in 1453, to which I quote 1397 and 1399; Regfan says my points were "fairly worthless." Kop is at three votes now, then Hans and ThinkBig vote in consecutive posts to put him back to L-1, which is what I see when I come back and post 1544. Despite all of this, I tryone more timein 1557 and 1570 to stop the lynch and Reg shoots it down again.
I went above and beyond what would have been necessary to gain whatever towncred Reg thinks I was trying to get here rather than, you know, NOT being the only dissenting voice (and getting scumread for that the following day anyway!).-
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In post 2108, Superhans wrote:Desperado you have nothing to quote. Answer the question for the first time.-
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In post 2114, Superhans wrote:You have definitely not mentioned who you think town is.-
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Wrong. I have stated who I think is town multiple times.In post 2118, Superhans wrote:If you aren't gonna reveal cos it helps scum, y have u already revealed your top Town reads multiple times already?-
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Desperado Survivor
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Desperado Survivor
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Desperado Survivor
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Desperado Survivor
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Desperado Survivor
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Desperado Survivor
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- Hans spends the first half of D2 cheerleading my Think caseIn post 2143, nydushermain wrote:Can you note or remember anything they said about eachother that was odd? Any instances of hard buddying or ignoring eachother?
- Regfan replaces in and ThinkBig is no longer viable
- Suddenly my case is shit, Reg's case is way better, but ThinkBig still isn't town??
- Now ThinkBig is scum again, based on his D3 content, but he's voting me, even tho he's on record as Think and I not being a team-
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Desperado Survivor
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Who is the You in this?In post 2157, Realeo wrote:My current impression is that Desperado is having a protest action. "You townread ThinkBig for ignoring question? I'm going to ignore question as well. If you scumread me for ignoring question, you have to scumread me for ignoring TB as well."-
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Desperado Survivor
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I thought the RQS was actually pretty important and it set the stage for a lot of my reads. This was one of the townier responses, particularly the last part.In post 43, Dunnstral wrote:Don't know of a favorite open setup, though I've come to dislike double scum setups. I think I'm 4 for 4 getting nightkilled as third party/scum in those
For roles... I'd like to be an innocent child once, but the type that gets to choose when they reveal, or one that reveals late. Getting revealed at the start is pretty lame and kind of drives people to not contribute
Town or Scum... I dunno. I always feel like I playreallywell as scum but as town it's fun to find someone I connect with and figure out that they're town
This is the other side of the Ali/Dave reads--I don't think Dunnscum would respond this way.In post 493, Dunnstral wrote:
First things first: I'm voting desperado and if your theory has any validity and he's the traitor I'd have caught on as scum and not been voting him. Granted, I don't know much of your theory anyway.In post 492, Alisae wrote:Dunn - I can't read this shit. Gun to my head town?
Second: You realize scum can recruit their traitor: in 491 it seems like you're assuming there's a traitor for sure. Why is that?
He consistently pushes this narrative the entire day and it informs a lot of his understanding of the gamestate. It reads genuine.In post 720, Dunnstral wrote:So tb is likely town because the traitor would know who the scum team is and he went rather hard - unless he was bussing but that's pretty risky
Who were the ones saying desperado was a traitor again?
Like hereIn post 804, Dunnstral wrote:I don't know why people think Ah was bussing TB?
I thought he had good points there and went hard and I wouldn't be surprised if it had led to TB'S lynch. Though I still don't understand why everyone turned on AH
And hereIn post 1092, Dunnstral wrote:By the way, nobody can answer who's scum in tb is town. Nobody is even attempting to find scum. Even if tb is scum there's still another one you know
And hereIn post 1146, Dunnstral wrote:I'm glad regfan is getting people off of TB
Even though I didn't agree with his conclusions I connected with this post because if I could understand how, if I thought TB was town, everyone looked scummy at this point.In post 1301, Dunnstral wrote:The kop thing to me looks less about a dumbtell and more like he was trying to back out of his read that didn't make sense (after getting called out). Also, I think last time I saw him lurking/doing nothing like this he was scum. With that said, he got wagoned super fast/hard so that's a little suspicious, but there's only 2 mafia so it's not cause for concern I guess
I noted that while he was throwing shade on TB there, he'sstillvoting gamma which itself isn't a good look as he doesn't seem to care to move his vote to who he's talking about either
I think TB is town, albeit awkward, I think there is scum pushing him; I think Alisae looks bad but I can see that's not happening, davesaz looks worse, and kop looks bad. Desperado's recent posting has me tilting my head and I feel like I should consider superhans more closely for scum
So pretty much everyone is scummy or in my sights
This is not how I would expect scum to react to Kop's claim.In post 1375, Dunnstral wrote:To be honest, I'm not sure how much I buy kop's claim, this is also the second time today my lynch target has claimed a power role to avoid being lynched so I'm a bit more skeptical
Still, I guess night kills will resolve this as well? So:
VOTE: Davesaz
In post 1401, Dunnstral wrote:
I was responding to what regfan was saying, wasn't assuming what scum would takeIn post 1397, Desperado wrote:@ Dunn: That would depend on how much power the scum took. You seem to be assuming that they didn't take away; why is that?In post 1403, Dunnstral wrote:You serious desperado? I say for there to be 3 town prs scum would have had at LEAST 1 power of their own (which is what kop would have been assuming there)
The likely to only be 2 prs was responding to what regfan had said
This exchange with me felt really town at the time and looks even more so on a reread.In post 1407, Dunnstral wrote:
No, I was talking about if he was town there - seeing gamma as goon cop shouldn't cause him concern because the only situation where he 100% can't be goon cop from his point of view is if scum didn't take any powers - which he can't assume. Scum would only need to take 1 power for that to not be a couunterclaim, which isn't unreasonable to assumeIn post 1406, Desperado wrote:If Kop is scum he doesn't need to assume anything.
Of the people who unvoted Kop because of the claim and then revoted because of your arguments in favor of his lynch, this was the least scummy.In post 1459, Dunnstral wrote:Actually, I've got thoughts now:
VOTE: Kop
Think gamma having claimed first so not being able to say he blocked there is a pretty good theory, this looks more like scum fakeclaiming with a lowish amount of prs
Not sure where these thoughts come from, looks like trying to confuse people with his iso rather than figuring things out...In post 1312, Kop wrote:VOTE: Davesaz
I don't think Dunstrall is scum on my wagon, regfan is confirmed town, if I had to choose scum on that wagon, Davesaz, Desperado or Superhans, it's within those 3.
@Kop why don't you think I'd be scum on your wagon? Why is it between Davesaz, Desperado, Superhans?-
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Reg, I think we just read this game in fundamentally different ways.
How on earth does ThinkBig voting Dunnstral for bullshit while maintaining Antihuman as his #1 scum read point to them not being buddies? It was clear that he never believed in that Dunn vote and never planned on seeing it through anywhere. He even leaves Dunnstral out of his next post, a full reads list, and assigns his "scummy behavior" to me instead.
And before you say anything, I still think Dunnstral is town, I just think you have been making errors in your analysis all game and you aren't adjusting. This is two days in a row you've removed one of my scumreads from your scum pool entirely and I don't get.-
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Desperado Survivor
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Desperado Survivor
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at least dusher's agreeableness with dunn has a trajectory.
even if thinkbig really does have a scumread on dunn, which i don't believe, i would still expect town-him to push back on his lynch given what he's said re: hans and I
btw ima leave these two quotes here:
In post 1466, ThinkBig wrote:Updated read list with explanations. I re-read the the game and a ISO'd several people to really make sure I didn't miss anything. Here's where I am.
Regfan
Gamma Emerald
Realeo
Dunnestral
Dave
Alisae
Kop
Superhans
Desperado
Spoiler: Key
Spoiler: Gamma
I think Dunnestral is town. He comes across as genuinely trying to solve the game. I like how he is not quick to jump on easy wagons. However, his response to my wagon comes across as possible buddying. Gun to my head, I think this slot is town.
Spoiler: Alisae
Spoiler: Dave
Spoiler: Kop
Spoiler: Desperado/SuperhansIn post 2275, ThinkBig wrote:Not once has Dunnestral given reads or explained why he reads people as town or scum.-
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Desperado Survivor
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 12582
- Joined: February 18, 2013
- Location: Raleigh, NC