Open 560: Tit for Tat (Game Over, 4/12 alive)

[Julatorium]

Does anyone have any Visine?

/confirm

[Julatorium]

Hello, this is Juls. This will likely be the only post I write the entire game for a few reasons but the main reason is we intend to be one head and my husband's head speaks much more eloquently than I do. We will be conversing probably more regularly than most hydras since we spend every waking-non-working hour together and even then we talk by phone at least 3-4 times and eat lunch together.

Also, we will be V/LA tomorrow returning some time Saturday afternoon. It's our 11 year wedding anniversary

With all that being said, I'm out.

P.S. Nikinor, I remember the name but refresh my memory on why. Also, who is your other hydra head?

[Julatorium]

and my husband's head speaks much more eloquently than I do.

well godddddddoggy, i shure-ah hope ah's able t'live up t'mah ol' ladeeee's speckatashuns

[Julatorium]

ditto mafblack

modbluetext on mafblack is migraineinducing

[Julatorium]

OK, this is Juls. That is a serious and false allegation you are making T S O. Moratorium and Julatorium have never had admin access anywhere on site so, no, that didn't happen. All posts that we have made are still here. What post do you think has been deleted?

[Julatorium]

Well thank you for wasting my time and being an ass hat (see, that's my eloquency). Now if you will excuse me it's my anniversary and I don't want to put up with useless drama from the likes of you.

[Julatorium]

1) To address the TSO post, we can talk about the "spirit of the game" nature of that play post-game. Null reaction to the question based on what we know of TSO, but happy we're out of RVS because of it.

Xfd, insanity, and Hgh came in post game-start and made no comments to the issue, infact appeared to wish to resurrect RVS. Why are you RVS'ing when stuff has happenned?

We also don't agree with the statement from KB that TSO's demeanor changed at all, or that a perceived change even matters, because he had his role when he made the accusation. It would be different if he didn't have his role, made this play pre-roles, and acted different once the game started. Trolls be trolling.

2) Flavor response

Our daughter is going to 3rd grade ACE classes next year, and the kids will have to vote on what subjects they are taught. This is a laughable exercise, because the choices are going to be like... Dinosaurs and Mythical Creatures, or Art and Music appreciation. The classes are inevitably chosen by how many boys and girls are in the class that year.

That said, We dissonantly

choose A

based on rock paper scissors (good ol' rock!).

3) Riddleton's newness: We thought the whole idea behind the Road to Rome wasn't to teach people how to play mafia, but to teach people how to play mafia

here

. His lack of MS experience will inevitably (and has already) waste time. We strongly encourage him to join a newbie game.

Right now, we see him newbtelling more than town/scumtelling (like #74), but of the votes on him, we appreciate the Not_Mafia vote as the only real attempt to pressure with reasoning. We don't like HGH's vote because he fingers everyone who is contributing to the conversation, no reasoning, no contribution of his own.

Tammy, does Riddleton's being a new player change your reaction to him not voting in RVS?

Malakittens, same question?

HGH, what are the reasons for your list in #114?

vote: HGH7193

[Julatorium]

Not trying to hurt your feelings, but calling a spade a spade. You may not be new to mafia, but you are new to the way mafia is done here. We've all been "new" at some point.

[Julatorium]

We are totally no lynching this

day phrase

. I'm totally just kidding. ;D

Anyways for real. No lynching does more harm than it does good. It gives information for town to use in the future.

Do you realize you have been auto-correcting the word

phase

for a year and a half? Search your posts site-wide for "day phrase"

[Julatorium]

I made the list because I feel that there may be one mafia member in there or maybe two because if they post early they will not look suspicious....

Did we join the right queue?

Ok, so... following you here... if posting means scummy in your world, why did you not include Dot Matrix?

[Julatorium]

1) To address the TSO post, we can talk about the "spirit of the game" nature of that play post-game.

Well, you can talk about it postgame, I guess - I have no intention of apologising for trolling, and although you seem to think it's outside "the spirit of the game"... I don't.

Wasn't looking for an apology, nor a discussion to prompt one. We've stated that it's a null-tell. It's your nature, so we can't use it to read you.

Null reaction to the question based on what we know of TSO, but happy we're out of RVS because of it.

Judging from the overwhelming response vindicating me completely, it's blatantly obvious you don't know what you're talking about. Please quit flaunting your ignorance. Atta boy!

Our quote wasn't about the content, or your vindication, it was about your nature. This is where you like to wallow. Therefore it can't be used.

We also don't agree with the statement from KB that TSO's demeanor changed at all, or that a perceived change even matters, because he had his role when he made the accusation. It would be different if he didn't have his role, made this play pre-roles, and acted different once the game started. Trolls be trolling.

Wow, lots of words, but no read at all! Trolling =/= scum.

That's right, and the statement is one regarding KB's views, not yours. Your reaction seems disproportionate to us. I thought you had some measure of pride in your trolling efforts?

2) Flavor response

Our daughter is going to 3rd grade ACE classes next year, and the kids will have to vote on what subjects they are taught. This is a laughable exercise, because the choices are going to be like... Dinosaurs and Mythical Creatures, or Art and Music appreciation. The classes are inevitably chosen by how many boys and girls are in the class that year.

That said, We dissonantly

choose A

based on rock paper scissors (good ol' rock!).

Yes, yes, you're very smart.

She is. We're proud parents.

[Julatorium]

I put the two people on top because they were posting a lot and they were also replying to each other a lot the last two I don't know why I put them there.

What is scummy about posting and replying to each other? Can you use more words to explain why you produced this list, and how you forgot how you put two people on this list less than 24 hours ago?

words and drama

We would bet money that one or both of Malakittens and Tammy are scum. /gut

This bothers me a little bit because first you say that TSO's actions only warrant a null reaction but then you criticize Xfd, Insanity, and Hgh for not addressing it? Can you elaborate on this position for me?

We're not criticizing those three for having a null reaction, we're criticizing them for having no reaction and instead RVS'ing. Everyone should have weighed in with their thoughts on the pregame shenanigans, even if their thoughts were "I don't know". RVS'ing is safe.

You excuse Riddle's behavior as a byproduct of his inexperience, even going so far as to prod Mala and Tammy to reconsider their positions on him, but in the same post you lay a vote down on hgh, whose history (if he is not an alt) would indicate a rather pronounced lack of experience. Could you explain what you find different between the two of them?

First, we aren't asking Mala and Tammy to reconsider their reads, but we expected Riddle's obvious newbness to give them pause. If they pushed without entertaining the idea that he could be newbtown, then they are just tunneling an easy target (if he's town). Second, we see Riddleton as countering Mafiascum-meta. (No lynch D1. No RVS without more information. "If I was mafia, I'd do this other thing I'm not doing.") Typical Newbie-game plays that are not indicative of alignment. Whereas HGH, on the other hand, posted a list of people he would like to chain-lynch without any reasoning. We want more information.

[Julatorium]

Malakittens and Tammy wrote:
words and drama


We would bet money that one or both of Malakittens and Tammy are scum. /gut

No, there's a good chance Tammy was town. I am town, so there's that. Secondly, no bets are allowed.

Consider it a figure of speech.

[Julatorium]

Can you explain how an rvs is safer than posting "I don't know" or having the null reaction you claimed?

The latter two show thought.

So then are you characterizing your vote on hgh as a pressure vote placed in order to illicit this information or are you currently reading hgh as scum?

Identifying the vote as a pressure vote rather defeats the purpose, we would have expected you to parse the meaning without stating it explicitly.

We still want him to speak and explain what he is doing.

[Julatorium]

I guess I have to disagree that either "I don't know" or the claim of a "null reaction" shows thought. My belief is that either of those demonstrate rather directly the absence of thought, or conversely a defensive desire to comment on a given situation without drawing undue attention.

And ours is the opposite, both "I don't know" and null reaction display a willingness to define your stance, therefore the need to acknowledge your stance to yourself. RVS precludes stance definition.

To your second point: Not at all. The purpose of a pressure vote is to illicit an answer. If the answer is not given or if the answer given is incriminating the pressure vote may progress naturally to being a vote in earnest. If you truly believe otherwise I would have expected you in this instance to have answered that your vote was serious based on hgh's action but that you would like to hear his explanation. I also find it rather odd that you would expect me to act in concert with your agenda instead of pursuing my own when I have, as yet, no indication that you are town.

So far, there has been no answer, he appears to have vanished.

As for acting in concert, what I'm expecting is a conversation with him, but instead I'm apparently dealing with this seemingly proxy obstruction. So be it.

[Julatorium]

Spoiler:

A few early things...

I choose

B

.

Hmm...

Oh justin is your avatar from the hush episode?

Nope, it's from season seven when Giles was trying to train the new slayers about the bringers. Here, of course, he's instructing us on how to recognize scum. And Tammy, hope you stay in, I watch Buffy with my kids about once a year. But, and please forgive me for my ignorance, could you explain why I should see you almost as an innocent child?

If he did this on purpose, why would he do so? In other words, why would he intentionally make himself look like mafia before the game has even started?
That would be stupid playing to say the least.

Maybe so that people would say "TSO would never do that if he was scum". In his own post he's pointed out that...

I've made out large cases and relentlessly tunnelled on Town as scum.

...which would also tend to antagonize his target and draw attention to him.

Do you think that scum normally do nothing?

Do you think that the more you do, the less likely scum you are?

Do you think scum frame questions so as to avoid the area where they perceive themselves to be vulnerable? I do. And the heart of what Krystal seemed to be trying to get at (Krystal, please correct me if I'm wrong) was the much milder tone you adopted as soon as the game began, as opposed to your previous more caustic behavior. Now I'm pretty old school but I do like inconsistent behavior within the same game as a possible indication that someone is scum.

That said, wildly exaggerating behavior you've found suspicious when placed under pressure...

I was actually thinking that his play after the game started has been anti-antagonistic. So far he's placed a random vote on a player not in the game and done nothing else but defend himself, despite posting like over a bajillion times.

...doesn't sit well with me either. This is not an accurate representation of TSO's behavior. At the point when this post was made TSO had posted 10 times after the game started. Three of these posts were nonsense/opening business. Three of these posts, all made after your initial case, could be classified as defense. Four of these posts, in a mild, early game manner, could be described as investigative. That's ten posts out of 109, which would also indicate that his posting activity was not too far out of line with the average, especially considering that I hadn't posted at all until now.


Riddle...

From my viewpoint, it sounded like a quick bandwagon. From the mafia games I played, mafioso don't like drawing attention to themselves. They would rather just go along with the crowd in order to not raise any questions. I found your question odd which is why I voted for you.

You'll only catch bad scum that way, and you'll catch a lot of timid/disconnected town along the way. On this topic, though...

If he did this on purpose, why would he do so? In other words, why would he intentionally make himself look like mafia before the game has even started?
That would be stupid playing to say the least.

Riddle

, can you explain to me in what way TSO's pregame tomfoolery made him look like mafia? What about the manner in which he behaved would indicate that he was scum?

This is a terrible post:

Here is the order of how I'm going to vote.

1. Riddleton
2. Krysrtal Bald
3. Not_Mafia
4. T S O

Official Vote: Riddleton

But I've read all of HGH's posts on the site (they're aren't that many). HGH are you an alt or do those posts represent your entire experience playing Mafia?

I was bored and decided to have some fun. It wasn't a reaction test, but it works better to say it's a reaction test than flat-out trolling. How would I reaction test people on something that's impossible?

Sure, it could be that. It could also be taking an opportunity to throw chaff into the air in an attempt to skew accurate reads on your behavior. That's the sort of thing good scum might do.


But once again, Krystal, this is really, really bad...

My read on you has nothing to do with whether or not you were trolling. I don't really give a fuck about that. You are now ignoring literally everything that is happening around you and focusing entirely on this conversation because it lets you get away with not scumhunting. Tell me, what's the town motivation for ignoring everything and not scumhunting?

Boiled down to its component parts this reads as "hey, I find it suspicious that you're reacting to my continuing suspicions of you". Now I'll grant you that TSO has made the pretty standard move of flipping your initial suspicions of him back on you, forcing you to stake out positions that can be looked back on later for consistency at the least or forcing you into an error that would allow him to mount a case on you at most. But that can certainly be a form of scumhunting every bit as much as it can be a sound scum defensive maneuver. Like it or not, the confrontation between you and TSO is the main thing that is happening around us, at least until Julatorium weighed in and then this odd thing blew up between Mala and Tammy.

And TSO? Thank you for this post. I feel like I know you so much better now.

On the whole there is more to dislike in Krystal's shading of the facts and opportunistic attack than TSO's aggressive defense.

Julatorium

, I have a couple questions for you.

1) To address the TSO post, we can talk about the "spirit of the game" nature of that play post-game. Null reaction to the question based on what we know of TSO, but happy we're out of RVS because of it.

Xfd, insanity, and Hgh came in post game-start and made no comments to the issue, infact appeared to wish to resurrect RVS. Why are you RVS'ing when stuff has happenned?

This bothers me a little bit because first you say that TSO's actions only warrant a null reaction but then you criticize Xfd, Insanity, and Hgh for not addressing it? Can you elaborate on this position for me?

You excuse Riddle's behavior as a byproduct of his inexperience, even going so far as to prod Mala and Tammy to reconsider their positions on him, but in the same post you lay a vote down on hgh, whose history (if he is not an alt) would indicate a rather pronounced lack of experience. Could you explain what you find different between the two of them?

Thank you for your answers.

And ours is the opposite, both "I don't know" and null reaction display a willingness to define your stance, therefore the need to acknowledge your stance to yourself. RVS precludes stance definition.

Oh poppycock. The very act of putting down an rvs vote after what happened pregame indicates a stance every bit as definitive as "I don't know" or a null reaction. If anything, slightly more definitive, as it lacks the defensive cover and wiggle room that an "I don't know" or a null reaction offers. By placing their RVS votes those players have, by their actions, made it clear that they did not believe the pregame hijinks were relevant to the game. But the notion that "I don't know" or a null reaction serves as anything more meaningful than a placeholder for a future epiphany is naive in a way that does not seem entirely natural.

And this?

therefore the need to acknowledge your stance to yourself.

Would you be so kind as to explain precisely what you mean by the above? Because in context it seems to indicate that the reason for posting "I don't know" or a null reaction would be to show others that you'd thought about it. That seems more likely to come from a scummy place than a townie one.

So far, there has been no answer, he appears to have vanished.

Does this make you more certainly believe he is scum?

As for acting in concert, what I'm expecting is a conversation with him, but instead I'm apparently dealing with this seemingly proxy obstruction. So be it.

Well...you expected this too.

we would have expected you to parse the meaning without stating it explicitly.

And you're wrong on two counts at the end of your statement. First, that I could obstruct a conversation that isn't happening, as you noted just above. Second, that I'm acting as a proxy, which would suggest that I am offering answers on his behalf, which I am not. So at this point I've not only revealed the secret of pressure votes in the game of Mafia but I've also gotten in the way of you watching the thread in peace for an answer from hgh.

Since you did bring it up, though, would you care to explain how you believe I'm obstructing you from having a conversation with hgh?

So you're a waller. That's awesome. Your questions are generally irrelevant, and you are distracting. Engaging you is zero fun. We think you are town.

I dig out tiny caves, and store gold and silver in them.
I also build bridges of silver and make crowns of gold.
They are the smallest you could imagine.
Sooner or later everybody needs my help, yet many people are afraid to let me help them. Who am I?

You're a dentist who is going to get himself lynched. If you're town you should try to keep that from happening.

Town who is coaching.

Krystal is playing bad scum. Or just a horrible player not sure which yet

Would tend to agree with you here as well. The question is whether it might be just a horrible case of confirmation bias, in favor of Mala and against TSO, based on personal likes and dislikes.

Town who doesn't vote.

[Julatorium]

Anyway, wake's post didnt sound really nice. Dont understand it.

You don't understand that he's asking for what we have to work with so far?

[Julatorium]

Spoiler:

1) To address the TSO post, we can talk about the "spirit of the game" nature of that play post-game.

Well, you can talk about it postgame, I guess - I have no intention of apologising for trolling, and although you seem to think it's outside "the spirit of the game"... I don't.

Wasn't looking for an apology, nor a discussion to prompt one. We've stated that it's a null-tell. It's your nature, so we can't use it to read you.

...what?

You said it required post-game discussion, I said it didn't, you said you weren't looking for a discussion?

What are you even doing?

Our quote wasn't about the content, or your vindication, it was about your nature. This is where you like to wallow. Therefore it can't be used.

Your quote should have been about the content. I enjoy, however, the fact that you are a rank hypocrite. You complain about the levels where the troll named TSO lurks, then post a link to a discussion which you now admit had no relevance other to ...slander my name? Your attempts to take the high moral ground makes me laugh.

We also don't agree with the statement from KB that TSO's demeanor changed at all, or that a perceived change even matters, because he had his role when he made the accusation. It would be different if he didn't have his role, made this play pre-roles, and acted different once the game started. Trolls be trolling.

Wow, lots of words, but no read at all! Trolling =/= scum.

That's right, and the statement is one regarding KB's views, not yours. Your reaction seems disproportionate to us. I thought you had some measure of pride in your trolling efforts?

Not particularly - I've never sold myself as a troll. You're the one who's pushing that I do.

2) Flavor response

Our daughter is going to 3rd grade ACE classes next year, and the kids will have to vote on what subjects they are taught. This is a laughable exercise, because the choices are going to be like... Dinosaurs and Mythical Creatures, or Art and Music appreciation. The classes are inevitably chosen by how many boys and girls are in the class that year.

That said, We dissonantly

choose A

based on rock paper scissors (good ol' rock!).

Yes, yes, you're very smart.

She is. We're proud parents.

Um, no. I never mentioned your daughter. You were the one who was flaunting how you feel the question is useless, before defeating the only purpose you could have for doing that by then participating in the question anyway.

Do you think that scum normally do nothing?

Do you think that the more you do, the less likely scum you are?

Do you think scum frame questions so as to avoid the area where they perceive themselves to be vulnerable? I do. And the heart of what Krystal seemed to be trying to get at (Krystal, please correct me if I'm wrong) was the much milder tone you adopted as soon as the game began, as opposed to your previous more caustic behavior. Now I'm pretty old school but I do like inconsistent behavior within the same game as a possible indication that someone is scum.

My behaviour was inconsistent, yes, because that more "caustic tone" is not my usual. I adopted it solely for people who did and still do get on my nerves (shoutout to you, Julian!). It would be both unenjoyable for me and you if I were to continue to use it. You can simply use my meta to evidence the fact I'm generally a nice guy. I have mean-guy scumgames and towngames. I also have nice-guy scumgames and towngames.

I was bored and decided to have some fun. It wasn't a reaction test, but it works better to say it's a reaction test than flat-out trolling. How would I reaction test people on something that's impossible?

Sure, it could be that. It could also be taking an opportunity to throw chaff into the air in an attempt to skew accurate reads on your behavior. That's the sort of thing good scum might do.

Am I good scum, though? Because if I'm bad scum, this argument falls to pieces.

And TSO? Thank you for this post. I feel like I know you so much better now.

You're welcome - it was enjoyable to show Julatorium why he was wrong. It still is.

But, let's be honest for a second here and I'll cut my condescending bullshit. Julatorium is either a prick, an idiot, or scum. He brought in a topic about verbal abuse, where I was the only example cited, and I was cited from only one game, where I was scum. He saw the quotes of me on the first damn page. Then he comes back, knowing that I can be aggressive and nasty as scum, knowing I'm being aggressive and nasty here, and what does he fucking do? Calls it a null tell! Where's the paranoia? That should set off the alarm bells in his head, because he knows I'm playing to relatively recent scum meta. But he doesn't. If he used that as a Town player should, in an attempt to figure out my alignment, he should be proclaiming wariness of me. He's not. He's probably scum.

You don't take motivation into account, and so your analysis is only surface-deep. Thus, people can easily fool you.

you are wrong with that, speaking on nik's behalf >:I

I disagree - motivation is the key to everything. Words are wind. Everything has a reason, everything is connected.

I would enjoy hearing how Nik scumhunts and pointing out how motivation could a) improve his method or b) factors in his method.

Town.

[Julatorium]

/out of game for a moment
This is Juls.
@TSO - I want to apologize for calling you an asshat. It was inappropriate and I have a quicker temper than my counterpart. I am the one who said we can have a "spirit of the game" conversation after the game. I meant we could have a discussion/debate about it because it is sort of a grey area. I did not intend to insinuate that you did anything wrong but I think talking about it now is a theory discussion not a game discussion. We got off on the wrong foot and I don't want this whole game to be you attacking us because you don't like me. If it's going to be that I would just rather replace out because I'm just not going to enjoy the game. So hopefully from this point forward we can have a civil discourse throughout the game.

/back to the game

[Julatorium]

TSO was misunderstanding what we were saying somewhat, and responding emotionally. He was responding to perceived attacks that weren't necessarily there, but we actually think that makes him more town. It doesn't read as manufactured.

You, on the other hand, are not catching our sarcasm. You appear to want hgh to defend himself, and coached him as to why. Your questions (RVS vs. null, pressurevote vs. scumread) are probes on our state of mind, but then you are just refuting our state of mind (poppycock) even though it's perfectly sound. Voting someone for having a townread is just... odd, but we'll assume you are voting for the lack of explanation, which also seems a stretch in this fluff game with half the players saying very little. Why is our earlier lack of town explanation different than, say, TSO's #257? Or KB's various #238 reads?

We're still waiting on HGH to explain what he is doing. His withdrawal says more than his posts do.

[Julatorium]

#247 is not calling you town. We are not town reading you. You are not being read as town. Usted no está siendo leído como ciudad. Vous ne semblez pas être un villageois.

We apologize for calling your posts irrelevant.

[Julatorium]

OK, so from this point forward, post 8 should be disregarded. This is Juls. I have some rather strong opinions about hydras and I wanted us to present ourselves as a single entity. Here's the problem: hydraing is hard. Moratorium and I have very different playstyles and add on top of that the fact that we are married (i.e., we will tell each other like it is forgoing the pleasantries) has made for what you see in this thread. A hydra trying to be something it's not. I wanted Moratorium to be the sole poster with me supplementing with my reads. Except what it is turning into is Moratorium saying a mish-mash of our thoughts in his words and something is getting lost in translation. So, we are flipping this thing on its head and going to try it the other way. I am going to post and he is going to give me thoughts. He is welcome to come in at any time and post though. We probably still won't sign but you will likely know who is who.

So this is where we are:

Town:

T S O

- The interactions with us pre-game seemed to come from a townie place.

Not_Mafia

- I have been primarily reading him as town. Moratorium is indifferent. Post 50 is in line with our thoughts regarding T S O. Post 75 reads as a properly placed pressure vote. Also, his post 272 shows a town thought process.

Riddleton

- We have already discussed this but he is pretty much newb-telling hard. It's not us trying to be insulting, it's just how we are reading it. Attempting to buck site meta just comes off as newb-town to us.

Null:

Justin Playfair

- We are not calling him town, we are not calling him scum. There is no passive agression here. His post 175 was very townie to us but we didn't like the coaching in post 203 or his nitpicking of everything we are saying. The latter we are trying to determine if we think that is scum-motivated or town-motivated. The long and short of it is that we just aren't comfortable with him yet.

Krystal Bald

- I was leaning town early but some things have seemed to be buddying like here and here but we aren't ready to make an alignment call just yet.

Wake88

- At first we thought Tammy/Mala could be scum together because the argument felt manufactured. But the fact that Tammy replaced out (i.e., followed through with the threat) makes us think she just didn't want to play without SKrew and did manufacture the argument but just for different reasons than we initially thought.

xfdagentx42

- Honestly, I had to look this person up to remember anything about them. That is how unmemorable this slot has been. The only thing of note is the random vote. Otherwise, this slot is completely unremarkable.

Scum:

Malakittens

- Her play is completely off to us. Both of us have played recent games with her, she was town in both of them. Her reaction testing of Tammy feels contrived. The fact that she has explicitly referred to herself as "town" here, here, and here is also coming off as odd/unnatural.

Elmo TeH AzN

- We feel like his vote on us looks like an attempt to grab onto Justin and T S O's agressive playstyles toward us and says nothing about our alignment while calling us scum. Why do we have "no idea" of what is going on? What cases are bad? How are either alignment indicative?

insanity018

- Read her ISO, this is just fluffity fluff fluff with some questions sprinkled in. Moratorium describes it as "inoffensive beige questions that will quickly be forgotten" and I think that pretty much sums it up perfectly.

HGH7193

- HGH is a difficult read for us. We hated the list and his responses to our questioning about the list. And he hasn't done anything that seems town at all. We have struggled with if we should remove our vote or not since he now just seems to be trolling. Our vote was indeed for pressure but it's not working and we have developed more reads but then he hasn't really answered us so....we don't know what to do here. We could really use some help from town in figuring this guy out.

With all that being said....
VOTE: Malakittens

[Julatorium]

Flavor:

Car B (a canteen of water, a flare gun, and a book on counting cards)

[Julatorium]

To be fair the Krystal Bald read is kinda weak. You are going off "pregame" things to give them a null read, since, then they have posted things that are town. Town because while me ignoring that this is my second game with Nik that I have played with and have hydra'd with Krystal (Mantis) to a point that I believe I can point out her scum-play from her town-play. With that, I'm confident to say that Krystal is my strongest town read.

You are hard-buddying Krystal Bald on a null read? really? And stuff that happened pregame is relevant since we all had our roles in pregame.

Obv, you are forgetting in the newbie queue I play absolutely different than I do outside of any game on site and within the micro. I had a decently familiarity w/ half of the players in that game also not to mention my hydra partner and I share a special bond that can not be broken. If you take all those factors into play you can see why my play between these three games are different and has nothing to do w/ any possible alignment speculation on your part.

What does any of that have to do with your play this game? You have made a point over and over to say explicitly you are town. It comes off as forced and unnatural.

Yet, Tammy did the same exact frisking thing through pregame and even during my 'argument' with her yet you are ignoring that.

The difference is 1) Tammy didn't "reaction test" you and 2) I didn't really care for that either at the time thus why we said one or both of you were scum. The fact that she followed through and quit the game makes me think she just didn't want to play the game without SKrew.

Also, I'm going to guess your scum reads/reads in general aren't in any type of strength, right?

They are only in order as far as what column they are in.

What I can't stand is this "Pregame talk" Its pregame does it mean anything and can it be taken at face value? Personally I don't see why you would as anything can be said at that moment to sway opinions.

We had our roles pregame. Everything from the moment we could post is relevant.

What really bothers me about Jules is her list. Its crap. Am I surprised I am picked as scum with them. Not at all if you ever read any of my games Im always on a scum list.

There you go again applying a label ("crap") to our post without any commentary to back it up other than you are in the scum column. The problem with you is you appear to have "little dog syndrome". You are TRYING to sound aggressive and come off like you are on the attack but it's missing the mark because you don't have the reasoning to back it up. Compare that to T S O's aggression which comes off as genuine.

And as for the bad cases Jules Why wouldn't someone like Mala refer to themselves as town? This is just bad case work once again. Yes because the scum are going to come out and say HEY IM SCUM VOTE ME OUT OF THIS GAME RIGHT NOW BECAUSE IM DOING A TERRIBLE JOB!!! I think not.

We didn't notice any unnatural proclamations of town in our previous games with her. Townie is townie by actions, not by self-proclamation.

So my question to you Jules is why not vote Insanity then? Wouldn't you think a pressure vote would be better then placing what you could look at as an easy vote?

Wait, I thought our list was "crap", why are you now saying that information is good? Is it maybe because now two people have mentioned/shown interest in insanity? Which is it Elmo? Are our cases good or bad?

[Julatorium]

So your telling me that I could have said in my first post WOO I'm town and it would have been relevant pregame. Obviously not therefore I say Pregame means absolutely shit. It shows nothing aside you getting your panties in a wad and then saying sorry later. Or did I obviously misread that somewhere along the lines? And beside that why is it relevant? Please enlighten me. Because I see nothing relevant before the first "Official post" Where you can do what you want and vote then.

First and foremost what information have I said was good? Congrats you posted a list and made some waves in this game among all the fluff posting you did. Lets face the facts when you post a list people talk. That's what happens Its not hard. And your cases are still complete shit. Lets put it that way. And Jesus its not hard to look at someones ISO and realize there was nothing there. Moreso what you did was prove Insanity is lurking and boom! Hell I figured I could do something you seem to be unable to do. Not fluff post the shit out of this game and what have you. Sitting here with your vote where it is isn't doing much just proving nothing more useful then not voting.

Oh look someone can read into a Meta. WIth unnatural proclamations. Why not do a meta search on everyone else in this game then? But obviously her self proclamations had something to do with it I'm also assuming or am I just a crazy person.

What's there to back up with your case? You posted a list. It doesn't make you look any more town to me and all it does it get people to talk about reads and look who shows up. Half the town that actually is here doesn't help when you have lurker city up in here.

If you want town credit for the list. Look elsewhere you're not getting it here. And what would being aggressive be moving my vote to you to prove your point? All that would show is something later down the line for people to do a VCA if anything to see if there was a pattern.

Last we checked, conversation in a game is a good thing. Again, all this says is "your cases are shit" (which cases?) "you looked at someone's iso, anyone can do that", and "you didn't vote insanity". I see nothing in these bit of words you threw together that says "Julatorium is scum because....". You ask what I have to back up my case...I have posts! Lots of posts I reference. See if you click those words that are underlined, they go to other posts and those posts are the ones that are my evidence of my cases.

And what would being aggressive be moving my vote to you to prove your point? All that would show is something later down the line for people to do a VCA if anything to see if there was a pattern.

That quote deserves its on block. See, you didn't vote us, in fact you unvoted us. Why, if we are such crappity crap scummy scum scums did you unvote us? You're a funny little monster Elmo.

TL;DR on my last post: Jules is scum grasping for towncred with the list

Well meta me (Juls) then cause I post a town/null/scum list in just about every single game I play in. Scum, Town, whatever. Come up with new ways to say crap though next time you post...k?

[Julatorium]

That quote deserves its on block

own*

[Julatorium]

First, UNVOTE: Malakittens. We feel the act of her watching/noticing that KB was online and not posting could be town and want to move our vote appropriately.

We looked into Elmo's assertion that he always gets voted or is on a scum list and found him to be telling the truth. Look in the spoiler for the raw data. This appears to be focused mostly on day one so it is our expectation that he becomes more townie as the game goes on. It's interesting to note that his only scum game since January 2013 was the only game in which he wasn't voted on Day 1. This was a shallow dive so results may not be completely 100% perfect but it is enough for us.

Spoiler: Elmo's Game History / Meta

Recent Elmo Games, RVS votes not counted.
-----------------------------------------------------------

Completed Open Games

- Open 446 Town: 0 votes D1, replaces out D1.
- Open 432 Town Hydra: 6 votes D1, 1 vote D2, 1 vote D3

Completed Large Theme Games

- Scummies Invitational 2012 Town: 6 votes D1, replaces out D1.
- Always On Town: Replaced in D6, game ends almost immediately
- Meta Playstyle Mafia Town: 0 D1, replaced out D1

Completed Micro Games

- Micro 109 Entire game is 5 pages long, skipped.

Completed Mini Theme Games

- Mini 1366 Scum: 0 D1, 0 D2, 0 D3, 0 D4, 0 D5
- Mini 1336 Town: 5 D1, lynched D1
- Mini 1329 Town: 5 D1, 1 D2, 0 D3,
- The League Mafia Town: 5 D1, 0 D2, 1 D3,
- Mini 1327 Town: 2 D1, nightkilled N1
- Mini 1354 Town: replaces in D2, 0 D2, 0 D3,

Completed Newbie Games

- Newbie 1320 Town: 1 D2, replaced out
- Newbie 1314 Town: replaces in D2, lynched D2,
- Newbie 1233 Town: replaces in D1, 3 D1, 0 D2,

However, 306 and 312 looks like a double bus and the interactions between Elmo and insanity are setting off our scumdar(s). Given that we want to give Elmo at least a day to "become more townie", we want to vote insanity who has become our strongest scum read. As we said in 273 her questions are very vanilla and inoffensive which comes off as trying to appear to be scum hunting while not drawing any attention.

VOTE: insanity

Our mala read has been improved somewhat and our Elmo read is unchanged and contingent on a insanity flip. We worry that HGH is going to slip through the cracks and would prefer a replacement to get a better read on the slot.

Mod: Please prod Justin Playfair

[Julatorium]

Mala, Wake, TSO, Juls and probably insanity and Elmo as well are town.
xfda and N_M are still scum together, probably with Justin, but it could be with Riddleton as well.
No read on HGH for obvious reasons but it looks like he's getting replaced anyway so yay for that.

Forgot to ask about this. KB, you are going to have to explain your town read on insanity and Elmo cause....we....don't....get....it.

[Julatorium]

I'm a she tyvm.

xfda, you are clearly active enough to constantly make posts about your inactivity. Who do you think is town/scum?

He can't because real life.

I can buy that but at the same time just make a list or something stalling helps no one and pushes for you to get replaced or lynched

So now you want lists? I thought you said anyone can make a list? If anyone can make a list why are you encouraging the making of lists? Please list your stances on the use of lists because:
1. You don't like lists
2. You want lists
3. You like contradicting yourself about lists

[Julatorium]

Julatorium's list post bothers me a lot because it is an absolutely defensive maneuver. If you read the list you will see that the actual opinions expressed are more or less in line with Julatorium's previous assessments. The only real difference is that a kinder, friendlier voice is expressing them. And the new definition offered for Julatorium's opinion on me, which is what apparently inspired this change, reads as a pretty obvious offer to disengage without resolution. That sort of thing almost always gives me the willies. The list itself doesn't bother me, though, and I rather like Julatorium's responses to Mala and Elmo. The problem with that, though, is that instead of following up on either of these Julatorium then soft clears both of them (admittedly Elmo for just a day but Julatorium then follows Elmo's taunt and votes Insanity) and focuses on Insanity instead. And the Insanity read seems both weak and a little opportunistic. I'm okay with my vote where it is.

The purpose of the switch was due to the fact that we were not clearly communicating our thoughts and needed to change. We were even having internal conversations about how we weren't expressing ourselves the way we intended or saying the right words to express our stance. I could go into a little more detail about the 'why' of it if you like but I don't know if it really matters. We are not trying to disengage without resolution with you. We stated our opinion as clearly as possible. If you would like to engage further about it, then please ask your questions and we will answer.

We have also not soft cleared anyone. We want to do more research on mala as most of our read of her is at a gut level. It's hard to push a case you can't quantify. Moratorium has more experience with Mala and feels she plays the game at a surface level (i.e, her cases aren't deep/complicated). We have intentions to meta some scum games of hers but

Moratorium

we haven't got around to it yet. We want to specifically look at her ability to manipulate. As for Elmo, Moratorium feels he is more scummy than insanity but insanity's ISO just drips new-scum to me. If insanity does get lynched and flips scum I doubt we would ever remove our vote from Elmo because their "bickering" really reads as bussing.

[Julatorium]

I like this post a lot. It is opportuinistic. Why not go after someone else? And they didn't put there vote there which means they are playing scared. I don't see why a town would play scared about something like that. It doesn't add up at least for me. But I came along and pissed insanity off and look what happens. SHE POSTS THINGS! Granted it was crap posting like the rest of this game but what can you do about it.

This quote made our combined heads explode. First off, the first two sentences are contradictory. How can you like a post and then call it opportunistic? Also, which post are you talking about? Justin Playfair's 366 or our 367? We assume you are talking about us when you say we are playing scared but we have no idea what you are talking about. What are we scared of? How are we playing scared?

IE: We're a hydra who knows nothing about this game and we're going to try and save face with the posts from the rest of the game.

We don't have any clue what you are talking about. You want people to post. Should we assume that you don't want us to post? Every post we make you seem to say we are trying to get towncred or "save face" (whatever the fuck that means). What would you like us to do exactly?

Im calling Bull. Nice way to try to save face

Didn't we tell you to come up with a more creative way of saying crap? If this is it then we are very disappointed.

For future reference. Note the call for an OMGUS. But lets me put it in another way. I bitch at someone for inactivity and why I voted them and instantly it sounds like I bus. Yet I go on yell at you for dumber things and nothing happens? So what you seem to be saying is "oh there's no way we're scum together" Or am i misreading this here? Not only that do you already see how someone is lining up a lynch already based on a flip that is TBD. Let's think about this. Jules pushes for an insanity lynch. Flips scum and instantly heads to me. Almost asking for a short day 2 and heading into D3 with 4 people dead heading into a MYLO or to buy time to a D4 where then it becomes MYLO or LYLO if it gets that far. If Im wrong on the days so be it. My head hurts from work today.

We just put our heads back together and they exploded again. What does this even mean? What "call for OMGUS". What do you mean "nothing happens" when you yell at us? And YES you are misreading...big time. We are saying that if insanity is scum then there is a very high likely hood that you are her partner and you are double-bussing each other.

Let's break down the rest of your crazy talk shall we?

Not only that do you already see how someone is lining up a lynch already based on a flip that is TBD.

Yep, that is exactly what we are doing. If insanity flips scum our vote will be parked on you until the end of time. Guilty as charged.

Jules pushes for an insanity lynch. Flips scum and instantly heads to me. Almost asking for a short day 2 and heading into D3 with 4 people dead heading into a MYLO or to buy time to a D4 where then it becomes MYLO or LYLO if it gets that far. If Im wrong on the days so be it. My head hurts from work today.

OK, stay with me here...If insanity flips scum (and it sounds like you already know she will), going into day 2 we will be down 1 town (maybe) and 1 scum. Then we lynch you. Let's pretend for a brief second that you are town (highly unlikely if insanity is scum). Then we will have one mislynch and at most 3 dead townies going into day 3 setting up a 6 vs 2. That's not MYLO. It would only be "MYLO" for scum if both of you were scum (7 vs 1). Elmo did you just scum-slip?

[Julatorium]

That's irrelevant questions to you, thank you very much.

Actually, I rather like your answer. If you'd be so kind as to tell me what your intended purpose was for #247 I might even be willing to promise not to use the word irrelevant in this thread again.

In post 247 my dear husband failed miserably at sarcasm. I (Juls) admit that I didn't even understand it and he had to explain it to me like 3 times before I got it. The first part where he says "We think you are town." was referring to the spoiler. We both read that post as town even though it was a bit nit picky (thus the "irrelevant" comment) and larger-than-our-liking (yes we are hypocrites). The other two comments were meant to show our struggle in reading you because, as town as that wall felt, we saw you "coaching" and "not voting". The post was meant to display our struggle in reading you but it missed the mark essentially.

[Julatorium]

@Malakittens - are you planning on night killing us and just decided to leave us out of your reads list?

[Julatorium]

We have absolutely zero interest in lynching Not_Mafia today. We are only on board for an Elmo or insanity lynch right now.

[Julatorium]

If insanity does get lynched and flips town, would you still vote for Elmo?

Why say

if

instead of

when

?

If

that happens, we would have to look at him with that knowledge. He has certainly been independently scummy but it wouldn't be a guarantee like it is

if

you flip town.

[Julatorium]

last word should be scum, not town.

[Julatorium]

We don't get the case on Not_Mafia. Can someone explain with lots of words and evidence? Also, we still want an insanity lynch the most.

P-edit: So KB, xfd soft-claims a power role and you choose to lynch?

[Julatorium]

We don't get the case on Not_Mafia. Can someone explain with lots of words and evidence?

Mala do this now.

Also, xfd hasn't really been all that scummy. Certainly shouldn't have been forced to claim. Lurky yes, but we find insanity's active vanilla questioning much more scum-telling. We have Not_Mafia as one of our town reads so the fact that some of you are pushing him as the premier lynch is really concerning to us. Also, KB just moved into the leaning-scum category with that vote-after-soft-claim and the unvote-after-claim. They already softed a power role, you know what the power roles are. You wanted them to full claim and it appeared your intentions were to lynch regardless. But then you unvote?

[Julatorium]

So it is retarded to lynch this person as if it is a fake claim the REAL vig will just shoot them.

[Julatorium]

So many scummy people too few slots for scum....Moonlights post just reads like someone who saw that xfd was run up and wanted to hop on the bandwagon.

[Julatorium]

OK, I just read xfd's ISO and looked at his/her games played. They have only played this game and their newbie. All the talk about voting them for inactivity is just newbness. That was a pretty scummy wagon.

{TSO Riddleton Malakittens, KB, Wake} All people who voted for xfd....you know who isn't in there? Elmo and insanity. Which is pissing me off because I am confused now.

[Julatorium]

Fair enough. >_> I wish I had more confidence in other scumreads. NM's play seems different to the one game I've played with him where he was Town, so I wouldn't oppose that wagon. HGH is also doing nothing while all this is going on, so a wagon on either of these two is fine by me.

This would be the point where you unvote.

[Julatorium]

I don't like unvoting without going after someone in particular and I'm trying to make up my mind. I'm getting confident in my townreads of TSO, Riddle, you and Mala. But other than agent, I have no scumread I'm confident about, and any vote I place would be an obvious pressure vote. >_<

You seem very concerned about the way you "appear" to town. Unvoting is the logical thing to do. This game does not require you to have a vote on someone at all times.

[Julatorium]

Shame there's no doctor in this game >_<

There is one. They are just a roleblocker as well.

[Julatorium]

@TSO - have you read HGH's one other game on site? I get the impression he doesn't know how to play mafia at all. I think this is also a weak player and he needs to be replaced, not lynched.

Mod: please replace HGH

[Julatorium]

Tammy's not in the game anymore, she was replaced by Wake who was replaced by Moonlight.

Since you didn't ask us, we think that your first post was absolutely fine and the posts to the contrary are ridiculous.

[Julatorium]

Maruchan, we agree. Why would you announce it if you were trying to get town-cred for it?

We are now on board for lynching in this order {Malakittens, Moonlight, insanity, Elmo, KB}.

Malakittens because we have just done some analysis of her to back up our suspicions which is that she is doing a lot of vote-hopping/calling people scummy. The only players she hasn't called scummy are us, KB, TSO, and Elmo. We feel like she has done some hard-buddying of KB (see the masons conversation and the white-knighting of our null read on KB). Also, in rereading her we noticed she didn't say anything about Not_Mafia except that she didn't understand someone's town read on him up to the point she voted him (and still didn't say anything about him until we asked her). After we made her describe her case, she quickly switched gears and backed off her scum-read of Not_Mafia.

Moonlight for his terrible terrible terrible push on xfd both before and after the claim. This is also the reason KB is on the list.

We have already stated our suspicions on insanity and Elmo ad nauseum but I'm worrying now about this read in light of recent events.

Spoiler: Malakittens calling the world scum

-73 Vote Riddle for not RVS
-149 Vote Tammy reaction testing
-151 insanity suspicion
-171 tammy may be town
-174 unvote tammy
-189 Vote xvf for 185 (newb post - what's your evidence)
-219 Declaration of KB town
-227 declares insanity scum
-275 Hard defends KB for a null read
-290 riddle is probably town, justin and NM possible scum
-314 Vote N_M (no reason to this point)
-316 KB is lurking but not posting
-381 xfd is active"ish"
-398 votes xfd
-428 back to Not_Mafia after claim
-433 Calls out riddle as having killed the town read on him
-438 Unvotes not mafia
-439 Back to Insanity
-485 Votes maruchan for Amished

Votes on: Riddle, moonlight, xfd, not mafia, xfd, not mafia, insanity, maruchan

VOTE: Malakittens

[Julatorium]

Yes because reads can't change due to new information. I vote for reactions, I vote for pressure, I vote because I think someone is scum. That's playing the game.

Yes, but we find just about every reason you have voted to be bad reasoning and/or opportunistic

Riddle - Voted him because he didn't want to RVS
Tammy - Voted for "reaction test". We never understood what reaction you wanted or were looking for.
xfd - Voted for newb-posting.
Not_Mafia - voted for no reason at all
xfd again - voted for being "activish"
Not_Mafia again - still no reason (later explained as getting "nothing" from him)
insanity - voted for because of process of elimination despite mentioning her alot in your posts
maruchan - for Amished tell that isn't even there. A tell you know for a fact he is aware of (as he mentioned)

Hmmm...also just noticed when preparing this that you have mentioned insanity as scum in 9 posts but only had a vote on her for less than 24 hours during the day.

Strong association to insanity found.

It's one thing to dislike my play, and another thing to find it scummy. The first one, I can understand. The second one? Not so much.

Oh, please don't confuse us. We think your play is scummy as fuck. Your initial post reads as someone who saw a wagon on xfd and was intent on voting them before reading a single word. This to us look like scum manufacturing a case to hop on an easy wagon. We see no town motivation whatsoever to do that.

I now have a completed town game for all you meta people.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=48518

Mini 1570. I was lynched on Day 1 as a vanilla townie.

Hey, instead of showing us this other game where you were town, how about

acting

being town in this game?

Well lately, its like the trio is complete for me...

We think you are town, but we think you are only sheeping other people and aren't independently looking for scum. If you are town (and especially a vigilante), you need to do a better job. As it is, we aren't very confident in you making choices about who to shoot. Nor do we want to direct your shot because scum may keep you alive if town directs you to shoot another townie. All I will say is do not shoot within this block {Julatorium, Justin, T S O, Not_Mafia, Riddle, xfd} everyone else you can shoot.

[Julatorium]

Also love how you say we aren't gonna direct your vig shot to Xdfa yet in a way you did because you narrowed the list down so much.

Narrowing the pool is not saying "kill this person". We believe that at least 2 scum, possibly all 3 exist in the left over pool.

[Julatorium]

We don't have two votes or we would be voting you. And stay tuned...our vote may be there before days over.

[Julatorium]

I hate hydras. On another note I hate my job and the vig being uncced means nothing because yeah I'll explain later

We get it. You don't like us. Are you voting us because we are a hydra? Because that's pretty dumb. Make the case on us other than "they are crap", "they want towncred", "grrr...lists", and "they are saving face". Cause none of that makes any sense. We aren't getting lynched today so you need to put your vote somewhere else. And if you are soft claiming vig and you shoot us then you are retarded.

[Julatorium]

VOTE: KB

This has been your biggest town read all game. Please explain this vote.

[Julatorium]

Hmm, I quite like Maruchan's catchup post and don't think that we should lynch him today.

I doubt Krystal Bald and Mala are both scum. I think KB is more likely due to the timing of their vote and then unvote on xdfa.

VOTE: Krystal Bald

It's mala and insanity and <?>.
That is all.

[Julatorium]

Oh my God! You have broke the whole game open. Everybody quick vote us because holy shit we didn't say KB was scum because he called agent scum. Damnit if you hadn't joined the game we would have got away with it. Sorry scum mates, we failed you.

P-edit: oh man we failed so hard

[Julatorium]

We are now on board for lynching in this order {Malakittens, Moonlight, insanity, Elmo, KB}.

Nothing changed between this post and 600 except we keep seeing associations between insanity and mala

[Julatorium]

VOTE: insanity please lynch this over KB at least. Mala has been calling KB town all game and suddenly she switches to "reaction test" and everyone sheeps her. Mala is super scummy but we will take her partner at the very least. I believe we have been way more townie than Mala and if you want to sheep someone sheep us. We think KB has done some scummy stuff but not near as much as insanity/Mala and lynching insanity helps steer our reads on both Elmo and Mala.

[Julatorium]

Mala is doing one of three things, none of them are good
1) she is a town PR trying not to get vigged. This is dumb because scum are likely smart enough to figure that out.
2) she is scum preparing to fake claim
3) she is town vanilla trying to draw the nightkill by crumbling jail keeper. This is a little better but still bad cause if a real jail keeper were worried about getting vigged they would just jail the vig.

So, we would prefer you stop beating around the bush and just claim.

[Julatorium]

Then don't direct her fucking shot. See, I can curse too.

[Julatorium]

But by posting what you did you reveal an absolute lack of concern at anyone else in town being shot. That isn't working with the vig to select a good target. It is trying to guarantee your personal survival.

This. This is our major problem with what she is doing. We also think she is scum. We debated calling it out but if she is town then scum knows exactly what she is doing.

[Julatorium]

Do you have a fucking argument to make that we are scummy or are you just nitpicking what we say because you are butt hurt that we think you are scummy? Don't pussy foot around it. Cause all you are doing right now is pointing shit out that doesn't matter. Making a passing comment like "oh God don't shoot me because I voted you" and explicitly stating that someone must confirm that they will not shoot them are completely different things.

Justin, the vig should NOT out their target because if they choose a townie then the scum will leave the vig alone. If they claim scum then they will shoot the vig. Plus, the jail keeper may or may not protect/block the vig tonight.

[Julatorium]

So you are saying that you are wasting everyone's time then. noted.

[Julatorium]

Please don't fucking do this. I just went round and round with another player who called me bad. Do you know what he called me bad for? Speculating about who made a night kill which ended up being true. This is not a route you want to take with me. I'm going to ask that you leave it at that.

[Julatorium]

We have 1 day 5 hours until deadline and we have no intentions of switching wagons unless a Mala wagon gets going. Please vote insanity. That is all.

[Julatorium]

Kay at least one of KB and/or insanity are scum for this last minute wagon change.

Mala, we (Mora) just played a newbie game with you where day one there were two wagons that weren't moving and last minute flailing ensued. Those two ended up being town. Why do you believe this case to be different? It is our theory that you are unwilling to vote for insanity, despite "scum" reading her earlier because you know

if

when she flips scum that xfdagent will/should shoot you in the face.

Hint: Don't handwave it away because its a newbie game.

[Julatorium]

Then join me on insanity and everyone will come back.

[Julatorium]

It doesn't look like we're going to get the lynches we want (insanity/mala), so we're going to sheep Maru. We like the logic of his recent posts.

VOTE: Krystal Bald

L-1

[Julatorium]

VOTE: Insanity

Flavor: It's riddleton's bag

@xfdagent - Who did you vig?

[Julatorium]

Mod:

if two entities made the kill on the same person would the kill flavor reflect that?

@xfd - why did you shoot Maru?

No kill flavor, everyone ends up missing in this story so I can write epilogue flavor

[Julatorium]

List all the reasons. Even one reason. There are multiple possibilities for what happened, not just what you list.

1) you both killed Maru
2) scum was jailkept
3) the Jailkeeper targeted the NK target
4) you are scum and the JK targeted the vig

[Julatorium]

Also, I guess scum could have no killed is another scenario.

[Julatorium]

I don't think it makes sense for scum to have no killed.

Flavour C

: I think we should try a different store...

Translation: That is exactly what we did last night but I don't want you to think that.

[Julatorium]

You need to explain with more than 5 words why you chose Maruchan.

[Julatorium]

VOTE: Elmo Teh Azn

[Julatorium]

@XFDAGENT

- why do you keep ignoring our question of WHY you killed Maru?

[Julatorium]

VOTE: insanity
We still would vote Elmo or Mala. Guaranteed at LEAST 1 probably 2 are in those 3.

[Julatorium]

@xfdagent - seriously not trying to be mean but is English not your first language? because we are having a super difficult time understanding you today.

[Julatorium]

Yep... just noticed your vote. Damnitt.

Yep... just noticed your vote. Damnitt.

P. Edit. Really babe? :/

Ahem. *rolls eyes*

WTF! Lemini played in lady's night. Have we been duped?

[Julatorium]

Oh ok. I like her a lot. I was going to be sad if she had a penis.