Open 512: See Nine Plus Plus (Game Ovah)
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CherryDrPepper Goon
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CherryDrPepper Goon
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It's something i picked up recently due to a certain link i read regarding RVS, I think Saki's being a bit flip floppy with his votes, but imma have to consult my other head on that since he played that one game with him since the beginning.In post 14, jmo16mla wrote:I checked your games and realized you didn't vote in rvs just like you said.
Cherry, I take your vote as serious?
-Sakura Hana-
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CherryDrPepper Goon
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Wait... how didn't i notice this earlier
Why would you have yourself as your top scum-pick? i'd understand you having yourself as your only town read (lol at reading yourself) but why are you calling yourself scum?In post 28, Varsoon wrote:@Flench: Get an avatar. Also, it's still pretty RVS, somy top scum-pick would only be myself? I don't know, man.-
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CherryDrPepper Goon
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CherryDrPepper Goon
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CherryDrPepper Goon
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Ok nvm im pretty sure my other head would agree to voting this
VOTE: Saki
-Sakura Hana-
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CherryDrPepper Goon
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DP here. Catching up.
No RVS votes are bad because they deny town of RVS based information. But since its a consistent playstyle thing, its not scummy coming from Varsoon.
Saki's first game here where he was town, he didnt jump votes a lot in RVS and was fairly timid and cautios and a bit of a joker. This got him scum vibes=21640#p4976509]Here it is so I think he could be a possible scumspect based on that. Now off to page2-
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CherryDrPepper Goon
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Link did not post properly
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p4976509
Glass' vote was bad. Why is it odd?
Titus' vote was also bad. RVS on one, legit fos on another. Thats kind of an "Im too scared to vote because people might suspect me of bandwagonning" vibe from me.
Flech's "worst town posts so far" when describing Saki bothers me. You think he's town, thn you vote?
Saki Y U No like me?
Btw, Pasche is probably town for that. Saki gets more scum points for unvoting to appease him. This is not the paranoid town Saki I've seen-
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CherryDrPepper Goon
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Good vote Sakura ^_^
Glass, if you mention twice, it hardly counts as a joke.
Titus explains scum reads. Without voting non RVS. Also gets scum points. If you are suspicious of Saki, why fear for the point of no return, which btw does not really exist. Feels like failed distancing.
Random vote shifting from Glass. Whutt?
I like oriole, but Im having trouble seeing whats wrong with that Titus post.
Thats about it
P-edit. I have not been reading very attentively then :/-
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CherryDrPepper Goon
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CherryDrPepper Goon
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CherryDrPepper Goon
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*raises hand*In post 156, Flench wrote:If there is another person besides jmo and titus who is confused by my posting I will take the time to explain it.
I still think it is clear.-
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CherryDrPepper
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CherryDrPepper Goon
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CherryDrPepper Goon
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CherryDrPepper Goon
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More Saki votes please. He is not playing to his town meta.
I might form a list of reads with Sakura after my V/LA.
Jmo is null for me. I've played with him in my first game and his supposed scum tells are playstyle tells.
And I do have a scum read on Varsoon. I agree with the sentiment that he is trying pretty hard to look town. The whole, not voting for someone on V/LA, even with the explanation, feels like white knighting to me. Voting absent people creates pressure when they come back, if these people are really scummy.-
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CherryDrPepper Goon
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Sakura Hana here, imma go revisiting everyone's ISOs and check for tendencies to form my reads, post links will be given where applicable. Ordered from Towniest to Scummiest
Paschendale:, obvious scum, let's lynch him.... just kidding, but he's conf town, need i say more?Town
Titus:, Best gameplay so far, asking questions, pressuring people, finding issues with people's posts, I don't see me voting him ever unless he does something incredibly scummy.Town
jmo:, Also pretty good scumhunting tho in a more aggresive manner, I like his style a lot, Also I don't see me voting this guy ever unless he does something incredibly scummy.Town
oriole:, Questioning players and good scumhunting, i particularly like his 57 and his 62, but I dislike his vote on Tunnelvision on 133, why did that make you think someone just entering the game would need to vote another player, specially a hydra that hasn't talked with his other head too like i refrained myself from doing early on with Saki until Saki's unvote?.Leaning Town
Varsoon:Null, Dunno really what to think of his posts, doesn't seem to spend much time scumhunting rather answering questions, and then gives a reads with zero nulls/neutrals and just puts people as town or scum, don't see how he has that strong of a townread on all those Town reads and the same could be said about his scum reads, tho I agree with the read on Flench.
Dyslexicon:Null, only 3 posts tho with quite some content, Still don't know what he finds suspicious in me being inactive over the weekend which seems like a weak to reasoning to lay suspicion on someone.
Tunnelvision:Null, Someone without much to go on...
Vote Me:Null, Haven't seen much and the few i've seen isn't enough to consolidate a read on him.
Stubbs:Null, This guy exists?!
Glass:, This guy is all over the place, his Titus vote looks pretty bad, very short replies, also i haven't seen some reads from him either...Leaning Scum
Flench:, His scumslip even if he explained it, if anyone could explain a scumslip then that'd be too easy wouldn't it? he's been fencesitting on the Saki's vote all game, and been defending his vote on Saki who's on V/LA to begin with, do you plan on doing anything else other than just staying there pointing fingers at Saki or are you gonna try to find the other scum...Leaning Scum
Saki:, Most of the read is because of my partner mentioning that he isn't playing to his town meta, the other part is all his jumpyness with votes and unvoting when being called out on it. As if "caught"Scum
Now i'm done catching up, thanks for the patience.-
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CherryDrPepper Goon
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CherryDrPepper Goon
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CherryDrPepper Goon
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It's just a person with multiple heads (in this case 2) hence the name "hydra", obviously the heads of the hydra can communicate, and this is why i think that some people dont like playing with hydras. Is that reason for a policy lynch? I can't really do much if all you do is hate hydras.In post 242, Saki wrote:So hydra heads can talk to each other? And people are willing to take the risk of scum/wolves having such an incredible advantage?
On to your other point, I promised a reads list and I delivered it, what makes you think there was no town motivation behind it? why would there be scum motivation behind it? Why would i be trying to "save face"? You need to analize stuff better imo.
-Sakura Hana
P.S: Btw, you have done nothing to figure our alignment, yet you're assinging us one and going from there.-
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CherryDrPepper Goon
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CherryDrPepper Goon
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I think at this point Saki is just trying to throw shit at the wall and see what sticks. We are scum for providing a read list? By that logic, anyone who has called anyone any alignment, must be scum right? /sarcasm
I am a firm believer in formulating read lists and how they can be perceived as town or scum. The thing is, scum would have no need to form a read list, so its easy to pick out scum from seeing whether or not the read list is genuine or forced.
If you really think we are scum and want us lynched over Varsoon, then changing the vote because youre case isnt compelling enough seems like youre trying to please people. The deadline is too far away to worry about this, sowhy change the vote now?
DoctorPepper-
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CherryDrPepper Goon
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Exactly how was it a fluke to draw us out when I specifically pointed out the flaw in you voting for Varsoon? Seems like a shitty way to save face btw.
Hypocrisy is not a scum tell because everyone can be a hypocrite. Being a hyprocrite does not equate to being scum because its as easy for anyone to act like one.
1) when was it over? It may have been over for you but it wasnt for me, as you have noticed I just re entered the game (we do sign our posts after all)
2) look like they are scum hunting? Great way to save face? Wasnt this my point? They dont need to create a read list, because they know who is town. So the read list they create is fake, which is what we need to look for. You being so against it seems likeyoure afraid of what could possibly happen to you when you are asked for a read list?
Saki is scum.
DoctorPepper
Im not saying its certain btw, Im just saying why theyre useful-
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CherryDrPepper Goon
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CherryDrPepper Goon
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I'd like explanations on all your reads please (except pasch since he's obvious).
Saki how come we give reads with analysis and you find it scummy, yet he gives reads without any analysis or explanations and you don't find it scummy? Do you find reads that disagree with you scummy or what.
-Sakura Hana-
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CherryDrPepper Goon
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I wasn't around during that other weekend either.In post 289, Saki wrote:He was not around, then he comes and gives a readslist after catching up. During the time that he was inactive he could not possibly scumhunt or townread anyone.
afaik you were active before you made yours.
You have trouble reading yourself? (you bolded your name on the list).Saki wrote:I wanted to know about the bolded people in specific because they're people that I have trouble reading.
Idk if you're serious or you're just trying to paint us as scum no matter what, I gave my reads list based on what i read onSaki wrote:@Cherry Besides, his reads don't seem as forced as yours. You tried too hard in yours to make it seem like you weren't just parroting.everyone's ISO, that's trying too hard?-
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CherryDrPepper Goon
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What in the hell? If you're gonna vote yourself to claim why not just claim without self-voting.In post 322, Saki wrote:btw, I will self-vote at L-2 and claim right away
-Sakura Hana-
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CherryDrPepper Goon
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CherryDrPepper Goon
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CherryDrPepper
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CherryDrPepper Goon
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Well time to go into analysis:
TTTT = 2 Goons + Roleblocker <-- minimum for scum roleblocker is 4 Ts, that means that town needs at least 3 non Ts
B = Roleblocker <- 1 B would mean town gets a roleblocker, so that means that there's a higher chance for a town RB than a scum RB, and tbh i dont think newbscum saki would have come with enough math to make a fakeclaim like that
unvote
P-Edit: Was about to unvote, but Titus latest post is making me feel like it might have actually been a fakeclaim.-
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CherryDrPepper Goon
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Actually no, if saki is newbscum do you really think he would have fakcelaimed roleblocker?
UNVOTE:
Don't feel safe leaving Saki at L-1 while we haven't heard the possibility of there being another town roleblocker, which would then drop his claim into the very unlikely territory
P-Edit: I think saki's still pretty new for this, and unless his partners told him to fakeclaim RB on the QT i highly doubt he would come with something like this.-
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CherryDrPepper Goon
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What makes you think that tho?In post 361, oriole wrote:If there's a full roleblocker, Saki's claim is pretty much a fakeclaim, but if there's a 1-shot roleblocker, Saki's pretty much confirmed.
BBB -> there can still be TTTT or am i missing something?-
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CherryDrPepper Goon
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CherryDrPepper Goon
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CherryDrPepper Goon
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*me checks again* Yeah if there's 4 Ts or less there's 1 scum roleblocker, we can't be sure tho yet, and that's just assuming you arent a scum roleblocker yourself, but i still don't think you can fakeclaim something like that.
Also i realized i forgot to sign my previous posts all of them are me.
-Sakura Hana-
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CherryDrPepper Goon
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Ok so we got another roleblocker claim, but we can't be sure he's town, hmm saki scum is looking more likely again but i'm not gonna lay my vote again yet until we hear from everyone else, and specially from my other head.
One thing is for sure, if one roleblocker is scum, the other is confirmed town and viceversa (way too unlikely to be 2 Town RBs)
-Sakura Hana-
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CherryDrPepper Goon
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CherryDrPepper Goon
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Titus: I got a question for you, you say that Varsoon has been acting scummy in order to attract scum attention towards him for being a PR, but why aren't you saying the same thing about Saki?
P-Edit: Varsoon: If you must, you should breadcrumb it somehow, not say it openly. I also agree that is a good idea to make it public.-
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CherryDrPepper Goon
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CherryDrPepper Goon
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I'm willing to think it could go either way, Varsoon is an experienced player, while Saki's probably thinking the same thing i was thinking after getting NK'd N1 on my 1st game when i was Town Doctor because i was "too town", something that a PR doesn't want is getting NK'd N1, so this head, Sakura Hana, thinks that it could still go either way, i'd need to see more from Saki now that his role is out, same from Varsoon, I hope my other head does answer this as well.
-Sakura Hana-
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CherryDrPepper Goon
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Well i mostly wanna see your attitude from now on, same with Saki, but answer me this question, How likely do you think is that scum drew 3T as opposed to 5T? take in mind even taking into account that saki fake claimed scum and is a roleblocker scum we would have
BMXTTTT up to BMXXXXX, while there could be a chance of BBBMTTT?... do you think it's compltely null the possibility of you both being town? Unlikely yes, but i've seen stranger things happen.
P-Edit: jmo what would you say to that ^-
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CherryDrPepper Goon
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This is obviously not a good idea, but you're dismissing the possibility that Saki could have been acting scummy also so scum leave him alive because he could be easy mislynch, which is why i want to see how they act from now that everyone knows their roles, There's also the possibility of both being Town but that's gonna be hard to prove even with NKA.In post 436, jmo16mla wrote:Okay, so lets not lynch either of them and let scum walk over us. Cool.
-Sakura Hana-
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CherryDrPepper Goon
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CherryDrPepper Goon
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I must say I'm impressed Saki, that's quite an interesting analysis, let's look at the chances then if there's 2 town roleblockers we'd have MBBBTTT which means there's a scum roleblocker, and no SK, with a vig it would be MBBBVVT which would mean that there's an SK AND a Vig, the only possibility of it being 1-shot roleblocker which would mean as you said MBBBBVV (No Ts) hence no SK... so i think we will be having either 1 shooter or 3 shooters tonight if roleblockers miss, and i think we more than likely can assume that we got a scum roleblocker at this point, regardless of saki and varsoon being both town or not. The chances are pretty unlikely, but one thing's for certain... there can't be 3 town roleblockers i think? (at least they don't appear on the wiki page).
-Sakura Hana-
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CherryDrPepper Goon
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Ok saki's still assigning alignments instead of trying to figure them out, somehow i think all of you 3 might be town until...
What...In post 490, Titus wrote:Out of curiousity Saki/Varsoon, what are your reads on jmo and Flench?
My townread on Titus is weakening, i'm going to dismiss that as non-intended deflection for now, and im going to trust that your true intention was indeed wanting to know their stance on jmo and Flench, it'd be nice if you didn't ask such things when under attack in the future, it always raises red flags to me.
-Sakura Hana-
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CherryDrPepper Goon
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I think the best CoA would be to let both live and starting on D2 start questioning night targets with explanations from our 2 claimed RBs and check where they don't make sense, then we can start throwing suspicion on either of them, as of right now, there's too much speculation and the possibility of both being town RBs is still there until another PR appears along the game, if it comes to mylo/lylo then yeah...
I dont think a town roleblocker is gonna live long specially because scum cant roleblock them (roleblocking actions resolve at the same time) so they rather kill them.
P-Edit: Fair enough Titus, but i still think this would be the best CoA for D1.
-Sakura Hana-
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CherryDrPepper Goon
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CherryDrPepper Goon
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Best example of WIFOM occurs on one of the most simple games called Rock Paper Scissors.
What would happen if before we start i told you: "I'm going to play scissors"?
You could believe it, or you could think i'm trying to trick you, there's no way of knowing, and trying to think about why i said such a thing will just make you more confused.
that's WIFOM.
-Sakura Hana-
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CherryDrPepper Goon
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Hmm i thought when 2 actions were on the same tier on Natural Action Resolution they resolved at the same time (hence why a vig kill would still hit even if the vig dies from a mafiakill)
-Sakura Hana-
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CherryDrPepper Goon
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Indeed, i'm liking these players, they are very activeIn post 528, StubbsKVM wrote:10 pages since my catchup post? Way behind again!
-Sakura Hana-
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CherryDrPepper Goon
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CherryDrPepper
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CherryDrPepper Goon
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CherryDrPepper
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My fear is that scum will just roleblock the other roleblocker and let them get lynched by town.In post 580, Varsoon wrote:Vote: Saki
I've given Titus enough of a headache.
Saki, you've gotta go.
On the slim chance you're actually town Roleblocker,
then I guess I'll get lynched D2 and we'll have lost two town Roleblockers. :/
-Sakura Hana-
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CherryDrPepper Goon
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Except you doubted Saki's claim way before Varsoon claimed:In post 346, Titus wrote:Why am I scummy Saki, beyond the fact that I find you scummy?
There's about a fifty percent change of a town roleblocker being in the game (.95^11). It's much more likely a scum roleblocker is present in the game. I believe you are a roleblocker Saki, just the scum roleblocker.In post 348, Titus wrote:Roleblocker is an excellent fake claim for a scum roleblocker. After all, you just ask who did you roleblock and the scum roleblocker can give the same answer as a town roleblocker would.
I stand corrected on my math though.
And a few more... then when Varson claimed you used it to cast even MORE doubt on Saki's claim, you would be doubting Saki regardless of Varsoon's claim, sorry but i have a hard time believing you're town now.In post 353, Titus wrote:I'd imagine a scum who isn't a roleblocker fake claiming vanilla townie or doctor. Those two are the easiest to hide as. Doctor, the scum can pretend to be incompetent. Without a tracker, townie can't really be disproven either.
You can't also claim my statistics argument as bad and then claim scum are unlikely to get a roleblocker. Three PRs is possible. In fact, that would be about a 50/50 shot.
Actually, Saki I didn't have you scummy for the whole game. I suspected you due to your opening but that's different than having you as scummy. You kinda volunteered to claim, hardly "jumping in for the kill". I also don't see your behavior as newbie town PR paranoia.
-Sakura Hana-
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CherryDrPepper Goon
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The fact that you didn't wait until Varsoon's claim and continued to suspect saki shows me that you're tunneling on him. Anything he does you will see it as bad.In post 644, Titus wrote:I might have suspected Saki if Varsoon never claimed but I wouldn't be voting him. It's hard to say what I would have done in a different scenario. Lynching an uncced PR is insanely stupid and far too risky so I definitely wouldn't have pushed for Saki's lynch.
Here, I think we should just lynch the scummiest between Saki and Varsoon due to the abysmal odds of having two full roleblockers. I think Saki is the scummiest. If I'm convinced that Varsoon is the scummiest, I have no problem voting him.
Normal town reaction to a PR claim would be "Oh shit! he's a PR quickly unvote before scum quickhammers!" not "You're lying, you're not a PR, go buy a better fake claim" even you said yourself he was 50/50 before Varsoon claimed, you still suspected him, it seems to me like you wanted to go off under the radar and mislynch a PR, which takes me to the most interesting scenario, we might have BBB, let's not go with number probabilties and let's go with scenarios.
1. There's 2 Town roleblockers (which means there's a 3rd scum roleblocker)
2. There's a town and a scum roleblocker.
3. One of them is scum roleblocker and the other is scum lying for town cred.
Scenario wise we have 50% chance that we're lynching townie and all 3 scenarios could very well apply to Varsoon as Saki, yet you're pretty certain Saki's the scummier choice, even before Varsoon claimed, which makes me think there's something you know that we don't, or maybe... something that you want to make us think.
-Sakura Hana-
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