Mini 2293: Death Note. Postgame!

[Black]

VOTE: Gimli

Read any good books lately?

[Black]

Thoughts on skills?
I don't see any kind of obvious partial skill claiming plans, I think any advantage to open claiming a skill is probably not worth reducing Kira NK info, but keen to discuss if anyone feels differently

Well I'm obviously Incognito which becomes kinda useless after D2. I don't think claiming skills is a good idea at all

[Black]

VOTE: Lorne Malvo

[Black]

Why are we claiming skills? I feel like that type of info benefits Kira more than the taskforce

[Black]

Lorne claiming Nothing. Let's think about this

There are 14 skills possible and 10 are in play. Kira/followers know what 4 skills are not in play

This has the possibility of being a fake skill claim

[Black]

Kira followers fake claiming is actually genius the more I think about it. The followers don't know each other and Kira doesn't know them, but they all know what skills aren't in play. Claiming a skill that isn't in play let's your two buddies know you're with them

[Black]

Nevermind, I misread that. Back to this VOTE: Gimli

How did you read it?

[Black]

Yeah I don't think Lorne is Kira. Follower maybe. Also this might get confusing because "Kira" is the name of the Mafia but Kira is also the name of the Mafia leader

[Black]

I agree with Kokichi here

[Black]

I'm on mobile and didn't see the milestone! Do I get cake?

[Black]

Well...you. I think it's a fine reason to vote for someone tbh

[Black]

Sorry! Let me clarify. I agree with Kokichi that voting over that is fine

[Black]

4. You can't discuss this game somewhere else, but in main thread or any PT i create for this purpose. You can't discuss other games as well.

Normally when I see this rule it is specified that we can't talk about ongoing games but does this mean we can't talk about past games either? Just need some clarification please

[Black]

Ongoing games. Games no longer going are fair.

Ty mod! <3

[Black]

Lorne claiming Nothing. Let's think about this

There are 14 skills possible and 10 are in play. Kira/followers know what 4 skills are not in play

This has the possibility of being a fake skill claim

Just Kira who knows which skills aren't in play, right?

Good catch! I think you're right. I read "Kira" and thought the whole Mafia knew

[Black]

Yeah I'm brand new here so no one can read me

> . >

< . <

[Black]

UNVOTE:

[Black]

Yes but not any that have existed in the last 15 years

[Black]

Lorne... when you wrote 28 did you know that only Kira can see what skills are in play and not the followers?

[Black]

Ok fair enough

[Black]

I just want to add, regarding hunting followers/Kira:

If we suspect someone is a follower then we kill them. We don't keep them around to try to see if we can figure out who Kira is from them. Each follower can use Shinigami Eyes correct? That means scum can get two real names a night assuming the followers don't accidently target the same guy. The quicker we get rid of the followers then the less real names are revealed to scum.

What's cool about this game is that the followers can't tell each other or Kira what their eyes discovered overnight. They're gonna have to figure out a way to push that information in public without getting caught

Slightly suspicious of Gimli for even semi-suggesting we ignore followers

[Black]

vanderscamp is the towniest player I think.

Gimli can you walk me through this read

[Black]

I don't think paying attention is alignment indicative. And reading that I'm not a follower is something Kira/a follower could easily do. Doing it in public is smart because they can't tell other scum what they think in private. They have to visibly narrow the pool of followers/Kira

Just weird reasonings to have him has the towniest player imo but maybe that's because his posts have given me weird vibes so I don't agree. I'll try to elaborate on this in a bit

[Black]

Ok...weird thoughts on Vander so far...a lot of these actions are NAI but they still pinged me

Do we like spoilers? Do we not like spoilers? Will people read this if I put it in tags or will people hate me for not tagging it and clogging up the page? I have Mafia anxiety

Spoiler: Vander giving me the creeps

Thoughts on skills?
I don't see any kind of obvious partial skill claiming plans, I think any advantage to open claiming a skill is probably not worth reducing Kira NK info, but keen to discuss if anyone feels differently

I thought even bringing up skill claiming was weird and it was framed like he definitely doesn't want to do it while also leaving the door open to discuss. Just felt off

I'm on board with all of that!

Vander agreeing with several things that Gimli proposed here. Not much extra input or anything

Just Kira who knows which skills aren't in play, right?

Could be informed but also could just be paying more attention to me which is entirely possible lol

Assuming I'm right about the rules, strong read from this that Black is not a follower

These types of reads are easy to make and I think followers/Kira benefit more from these definitive declarations more than taskforce. I still think it's NAI because Vander could post this as either alignment but I can't help that I felt weird about it

Does scumBlack typically openly advocate pro-scum strategies?

This just seems like Vander is trying to solve without really putting much thought into it. Posting this question and legit hoping to get an answer back seems like a reach

I like gimli's thought process.

More sheeping of Gimli with no elaboration on why he likes the thought process

I thought kokichi might have been scum for the vote on black for the call for skill claims, but his response to me asking about it felt null

Riding the fence on Kokichi. Keeping the door open

Nah, I could see it as Kira who sees what skills aren't in play, assumes that the followers also got the same info, and is just trying to tell followers what to do to identify him.

Not a high likelihood world, and I didn't look at that post and think "this looks like Kira coaching," but I could see it being a thing.

More on the fence stuff

Lorne... when you wrote 28 did you know that only Kira can see what skills are in play and not the followers?

How do you know only Kira can see the skills in play?

VOTE: Kawaii

Why does Kawaii get a vote for not reading the rules but not me, especially when you just said I could be Kira?

So yeah... a lot of this is just me getting a vibe that Vander is trying to seem like a proactive townie while really not contributing much of his own stuff. When he is providing he's arguing why people can go either alignment. The skills comment is probably the most scummy thing here along with the Kawaii vote

VOTE: Vanderscamp

[Black]

they literally put 'i'm death, straight up' in the signature

is this softing to kira

Yeah I'm not liking this either tbh

[Black]

Good analysis. What do you think of Gimli saying they were the towniest so far despite all this?

I thought it was a weird read but I don't necessarily think that someone disagreeing with my read is a scumtell. I will openly admit I don't have the best scum radar. I can see a situation where Gimli/Vander are some kind of follower/Kira mix but that is something I'm not confident in and will have to develop more

[Black]

I'm voting malakittens

Did my thoughts about Vander change your opinion of him at all?

[Black]

unless we wanna go full claiming abilities and do something else to break night actions.

You would be ok with this?

[Black]

I don't mind Vander's response to my suspicion. Actually I would say his answers are pretty +town

I'm not around much on weekends fyi but I'll try to keep up here and there. If not I'll play catch-up on Monday

[Black]

those townreads feel good man

You're welcome Kira

If this is Lorne trying to get Kira Gimli to know he's a follower I'm going to lmao

[Black]

Do we really think kawaii is Kira because they said they would act a certain way as Kira and then acted that way? That just doesn't seem like something scum would do. To assume Kawaii is Kira we have to assume they would just out themselves D1 for no reason

Also Kokichi brought up a Gimli meta analysis that everyone just overlooked. Gimli is definitely acting more confident in his reads this game and it's not just exclusive to the Kokichi read. All of his reads have felt definitive. Just feels weird

[Black]

I am extremely down to daykill Kawaii.

Wait what??? Did you just say the Detective should out themselves and use their dayvig to kill kawaii?

[Black]

Also Kokichi brought up a Gimli meta analysis that everyone just overlooked. Gimli is definitely acting more confident in his reads this game and it's not just exclusive to the Kokichi read. All of his reads have felt definitive. Just feels weird

I'm glad you're the only one who actually bothered to bring it up.

I'm surprised no one else did. Gimli is definitely trying to run this game

[Black]

I am extremely down to daykill Kawaii.

Wait what??? Did you just say the Detective should out themselves and use their dayvig to kill kawaii?

I think they just mean vote out.

Oh I think you're right. My brain isn't working right today

[Black]

Yeah...daykill is such a weird way to phrase it. Why not say vote?

[Black]

Gimli can you scum case Kawaii?

[Black]

I started getting heat by black after I was set with the kawaii flip and whatnot.

That's incorrect. I was already suspicious of you in 165 and 204

I also think it's funny that koki is saying people are sheeping me when everyone that's scumreading kawaii is doing so independently, clearly. it's just a blatantly scum play so far and defending it from the angle of 'gimli is sus' doesn't feel right.

Vander has been sheeping you all game and the vote on kawaii is no different. I don't think kawaii is acting scummy. They weren't posting in the newbie game you linked while they were lurking here so to me that suggests they were busy this weekend. The rest of the points against kawaii are weak imo

[Black]

this is all grasping at straws in a very blatant manner, which points unequivocally towards you being kawaii's follower. it's a bad spot having to defend such overtly wolfy play, and you're outing yourself, imo, by doing so.

If anyone is grasping at straws it's you with your weak kawaii case. I don't consider his play "overtly Wolfy" either and your "scumcase" if you can call it that did nothing to convince me otherwise

Also do you seriously have a read on who the detective and assistant might be? That seems really strange and I'm not even sure why you think it's a good idea to share that. You're opening the door to everyone openly talking about who they think the detective is and that's something I feel like scum might do

VOTE: Gimli

[Black]

Also do you seriously have a read on who the detective and assistant might be? That seems really strange and I'm not even sure why you think it's a good idea to share that. You're opening the door to everyone openly talking about who they think the detective is and that's something I feel like scum might do

Having a read about who detective and Assistant might be, is not a bad thing in itself, don't want to vote them or possibly make them reveal themselves. But outing that is bad, at this point. Do you think he's trying to let Kira know his reads?

Yeah I don't think it's bad to have those reads but why on earth would a town player reveal those reads this early? For me I think it's too early and there's not enough information to tell who the Detective and Assistant might be. No shot Gimli thinks he got it right here

and even if he does think that then sharing that information is incredibly harmful to the town

Right now I'm feeling like Gimli is a follower

[Black]

Like can we not ignore that Gimli is openly revealing who the PRs might be and send him packing?

[Black]

We absolutely vote followers out if we suspect them. One less Eyes ability they can use tonight

[Black]

they're not using any abilities tonight if we flip kira

Good point. I don't think kawaii is Kira though

[Black]

I get you're in tunnel mode Gimli but I don't think you should ignore the various things people are bringing up about you. What are your thoughts on the meta case against you? And do you think it's pro town to try and out the detective and assistant?

[Black]

Openly speculating who the Detective is only benefits wolves here. But at least you got some bragging rights in ig

[Black]

You're so sweet...

[Black]

If I'm right about Gimli being a follower then I think there are some connections between him and Vander. I'm not super confident in this read though

[Black]

I was one of your strongest TRs. Wild how me saying I don't think kawaii is Kira can completely flip that. Your tunnel is really long with no end in sight

[Black]

You think Kira and followers would feel this bold to be the only people on a Gimli wagon? Also it won't stop when you flip Kawaii because we won't know what his alignment is. Once you flip him you will gun for me and Kokichi next. Your tunnel will last until the end of the game and by that point you will have mislimmed enough to win

[Black]

Also I'm surprised you're not just assuming I could be wrong here. You townread me and you know I'm new with a history of bad reads. But for some reason I'm definitely a follower because I don't think you're right about your Kira suspect?

[Black]

I already told you I don't think kawaii is scummy. Your scumcase is no where close to being strong enough to warrant feeling this confident about it. And since your confidence in this game doesn't really match your playstyle I feel like it's coming from an informed place

[Black]

If it turns out I'm defending Kira here then I won't be surprised, but I really don't think I am

[Black]

Well your initial reason for thinking he's Kira is because he said he would fade away as Kira and then he did. I'm having a hard time picturing a scenario where Kira Kawaii thought this would be the best move D1. Also he wasn't posting in our newbie game over the weekend which lined up with his absence here. The whole case feels super flimsy and if you are town I legit cannot fathom why you are so confident in it

[Black]

I don't know if he's a townie but the reasons I just posted make me think he's not Kira

[Black]

Regarding HLE I don't have strong reads one way or the other. I got town vibes from it saying we shouldn't use the dayvig, but I'm getting wolf vibes from this post:

This one normally wouldn't be super opposed to killing someone scummy right here and now, but due to the nature of the game it believes that maximizing our time to discuss is vital. Anyone pushing to get Kokichi (or anyone, for that matter) to hammer any time short of like, deadline day, is going to be on my radar.

It doesn't make sense for HLE to have this opinion but not suspect Gimli like...at all

[Black]

HPE* ...not sure who HLE is

[Black]

HPE feels weirdly linked to Gimli but as a standalone slot I'm feeling pretty null about it

[Black]

That was incredible timing

[Black]

As to why I'm disengaged with this game, this is intentional, I want people to think I'm Kira to see how Kira/followers react to me

HPE do you seriously believe what kawaii is saying here?

Wait. I missed this from kawaii somehow and this seems weird. I was thinking Kawaii wasn't around much this weekend and that they might have felt overwhelmed due to this game having a much different ruleset and mechanics than the newbie games. I was not expecting this response

[Black]

I don't think this gimli wagon is pure

Go on

[Black]

Nooo Kawaii that's a bad post

Do you really think kawaii's post was worse than Gimli's?

[Black]

Nooo Kawaii that's a bad post

Do you really think kawaii's post was worse than Gimli's?

I don't read Gimli's posts, they're too long

Gimli's post is literally in the kawaii post you quoted

Maybe Lorne is just Kira

[Black]

My skill is Nothing

Kira probably makes this fake claim early D1 btw

[Black]

Kira will play like a normal person, just hang the followers, read their ISO and hang Kira later, it's not that complicated

I want to hang Kira day 5 so we get maximum playing time

Wanting to hunt followers and keep Kira around is weird

[Black]

If I ever get a chance to hammer anybody - I will

You saw me starting to question my kawaii read and moved your vote there pretty fast. Had to get in before it got to the hammer huh? Seems weird because didn't you literally just say you didn't want to hang kawaii?

[Black]

If Kawaii was Kira, I would not want to be a follower right now

I do not approve a Kawaii hang

I got your back Gimli
VOTE: KawaiiKame

VOTE: Lorne Malvo

[Black]

Black and I basically made the same post, why only call out Kawaii's?

He needed a reason to jump on the mobile wagon

[Black]

He also gave some fluff bs answer when I asked him about Gimli's post. I think Lorne is just scum

[Black]

I don't read Gimli's posts, they're too long

Yeah? I think you read all of his posts tbh...

Gimli is making some bangers, too bad they will likely not result in anything juicy

Gimli is my top townread and I can definitely see a difference between him and Kokichi

[Black]

He also gave some fluff bs answer when I asked him about Gimli's post. I think Lorne is just scum

How confident do you feel in Lorne being scum? Time to IS0

I won't lie to you my reads have generally sucked since coming to this website, so you'll probably have to decide for yourself

[Black]

While I agree he made a 180, I would want to see his reason why it was a bad post for Kawaii and not for us.

And also why he thinks Gimli's post is a good post...

Gimli's post IS a good post...for Kira

[Black]

He will probably go like usual though. His slot hasn't really done anything this game

[Black]

Gimli you are reading all of this and you have nothing to say about it? Just right back to kawaii huh? lol

[Black]

I love when the tunneler ignores other important stuff being discussed and finally jumps in when they can go back to their tunnel

[Black]

yes its just kawaii

Towncase Lorne for me

[Black]

As to why I'm disengaged with this game, this is intentional, I want people to think I'm Kira to see how Kira/followers react to me

Kawaii were you serious when you said this? I don't get this vibe from you and I also think you revealing this is pretty weird if that actually is your plan

[Black]

yes its just kawaii

Towncase Lorne for me

my lorne read: playing too political, could be scum. could even be kira! but I'm killing kawaii, because kawaii has associatives that work.

its a never changing read. if im wrong on kawaii we can all kill lorne tomorrow. today I'm never moving my vote.

Why do you keep suggesting that we will know what kawaii flips?

[Black]

That's fair. And if it doesn't you will be down to help me push Lorne tomorrow?

[Black]

@Gimli

Why do you think Lorne could be Kira now after posting twice earlier in the game that he's not?

[Black]

My skill is Nothing

Kira probably makes this fake claim early D1 btw

He sure does
Except why haven't you realised that it was a joke lol

You claiming Nothing was a joke? What kind of joke is that? Someone could definitely have this skill. And if no one else does then you (as Kira) would know this and claim it

[Black]

Actually I don't mind dying tomorrow since I suck ass in this game format, so you're good to go Black

Why not today?

[Black]

The fact that we don't even get flips sucks, I could've been helpful otherwise

This is just an excuse to not do anything. Also earlier you said you suck at scumhunting D1 I think. You are postering yourself to be useless and worst case scenario we vote off someone not willing to solve or help the town win

[Black]

Yeah all jokes all the time. Cool playstyle ig

[Black]

Counterpoint: Lorne is town

Source: Trust me

Honestly I think this kind of reasoning is much more towny than people trying to come up with some bullshit and put some mafia terms in it lol

Like what even is this opinion? Do you really believe this or are you joking again? I don't mind people that play to have fun but this type of playstyle is just not good for the town. No solving, all jokes. We can't even tell when you're being serious

[Black]

Walk me through your opinion Lorne. Why do you think Meg's reasoning is more townie?

[Black]

People have every right to play how they want, absolutely. And if their playstyle makes them harder to read then good for them because that's a great trait to have here I think. BBT just won a newbie game by flying under the radar and doing nothing. So if it fits your playstyle then why deviate? If it is a playstyle thing though then obviously I'm less confident in my read

[Black]

Lorne, do you have any reads we can work with?

[Black]

Also, same question to Malakittens

[Black]

UNVOTE: Lorne Malvo
Thinking it can semi-safely write off Lorne as just being a goofball townie here now that he's given SOME form of explanation to his actions. Its on the fence about if it wants to slap even a pressure vote onto Gimli because his push is bad but his persistence is intriguing and this one feels like even followers would have more self-preservation than to keep pushing a wagon that is teetering on the edge of backfiring and killing them.

Well even if I'm wrong about Lorne at least I got him to do something

I'm still leaning Gimli over kawaii but I'm not as sure as I once was

[Black]

Also, if you don't think Kawaii is acting scummy, what do you think of them saying they're intentionally trying to look like Kira?

I don't buy it either. At the time of that post I didn't even realize kawaii had said it

[Black]

Why are you convinced Kawaii isn't Kira?
Like Gimli can be wrong about you with Kawaii being Kira and the game ending.

I didn't see anything that pointed to kawaii being Kira. I didn't like the case and how it was pushed. I realize I could be wrong though

[Black]

i feel like black is wound a little tightly

I won't disagree

[Black]

I'm probably going to take more of a backseat this game. It feels like no one is really seeing what I'm seeing in regards to several of my reads so I'm starting to feel self-conscious about how good they actually are. I probably need to reread at some point and get better footing here

I think kawaii's responses have been ok. It seems like they are more determined to contribute and help solve but part of me feels like that might be because they were scumread for not doing that before. Their answer to my question about pretending to be Kira felt genuine

StD posturing to vote for kawaii and then doing it felt opportunistic. StD, question for you. Originally you said you didn't feel like kawaii was solving/hunting. Has this opinion changed in light of kawaii's recent flurry of posts?

Mala feels really lurky but I read that it's a playstyle thing, and other than that her posts feel pretty town to me

Right now I still think it might be Gimli, but I'm just not confident in anything I feel right now and I need to refresh before I feel like I can effectively contribute

[Black]

it might be nai it just seems like the "what kind of joke is that?" could be fake indignation for example

Skill claiming as a joke is a dumb idea imo. If someone else counterclaims then Lorne looks scummy and now we are starting to reveal who has what skill. I felt like I had a decent read on Kira fake claiming this skill only for that to be squashed by Lorne calling it a joke. It was a little frustrating and yeah maybe I let my emotion seep in

[Black]

It feels like no one is really seeing what I'm seeing in regards to several of my reads so I'm starting to feel self-conscious about how good they actually are. I probably need to reread at some point and get better footing here

What are you seeing? I want to know your thoughts/emotions, people doubting you doesn't mean they're not valueable, you might be right in solving, want you to feel I value your input, speak your mind, it only helps town

I feel like I'm getting wolf vibes from widely townread players. Vander, HPE, Gimli, Lorne. And I was given advice after a recent game of mine that I need to do a better job at figuring out wolf motives. So I'm just not really confident in a lot of what I'm feeling now

[Black]

some people seem really town but i think it's possible kira is on their best behavior trying to look town.

This from StD seems weird. I feel like it's more than possible Kira is on their best behavior trying to look like town....I think it's highly likely. But the lack of confidence in this statement makes me feel like StD wanted to leave the door open to continue pushing kawaii who is self-admittedly not trying to look like town

Not confident in StD's alignment either way but I didn't like this comment

[Black]

StD posturing to vote for kawaii and then doing it felt opportunistic. StD, question for you. Originally you said you didn't feel like kawaii was solving/hunting. Has this opinion changed in light of kawaii's recent flurry of posts?

probably would have voted earlier were it not for kokichi so i'm not sure if this applies

i think kawaii is trying harder for sure but i'm not sure it's hunting/solving besides a lot of questions and "okay this post is good". the vote for me was not great if their goal was to try and solve tbh not because it was on me but because of the way they approached it, voting me for playstyle reasons. i think they could have been testing the waters to see if people jumped onto it.

i feel like the whole gambit thing is just a lie and it's hard to change my opinion on that. maybe i'm tunneling but i just am having trouble overcoming that despite whatever effort might come after.

That's fair tbh

[Black]

What was your motivation as wolf in the last game we played? Think back to your goals, your desires, your thoughts, your emotions
I specifically know you kept saying how someone being a wolf would act in specific contexts when you = wolf

I wanted to seem like I was town. So that's why I'm confused and I feel like I'm getting flak somewhat for scumreading townie players. In my mind Kira is probably one the towniest players but I don't think anyone else agrees with me

[Black]

I'm keeping vander as a townie in any configuration

If Vander feels hard townie it's pretty likely Vander is Kira

I've had Vander/Gimli linked for awhile now

[Black]

it might be nai it just seems like the "what kind of joke is that?" could be fake indignation for example

Skill claiming as a joke is a dumb idea imo. If someone else counterclaims then Lorne looks scummy and now we are starting to reveal who has what skill. I felt like I had a decent read on Kira fake claiming this skill only for that to be squashed by Lorne calling it a joke. It was a little frustrating and yeah maybe I let my emotion seep in

With time you'll learn to control your emotions in mafia, it comes with practice

I feel like I do a pretty good job at it. If you knew how emotional I was irl I think you would agree tbh

[Black]

it might be nai it just seems like the "what kind of joke is that?" could be fake indignation for example

Skill claiming as a joke is a dumb idea imo. If someone else counterclaims then Lorne looks scummy and now we are starting to reveal who has what skill. I felt like I had a decent read on Kira fake claiming this skill only for that to be squashed by Lorne calling it a joke. It was a little frustrating and yeah maybe I let my emotion seep in

With time you'll learn to control your emotions in mafia, it comes with practice

I feel like I do a pretty good job at it. If you knew how emotional I was irl I think you would agree tbh

Genshin players do tend to be pretty emotional

[Black]

I'm feeling Gimli over kawaii still so I shall return

VOTE: Gimli

[Black]

Kawaii...I've been feeling it's Gimli for a long time. Just read my iso if you want to know why

It's not a super strong read but it's the strongest one I have atm

[Black]

I'm organically townreading meg, vanderscamp and I think I should probably townread black? but idrk if that's smart yet.

Why don't you know if it's smart yet if you think you probably should townread Black?

Probably because I'm so good at wolf

[Black]

Kawaii...I've been feeling it's Gimli for a long time. Just read my iso if you want to know why

It's not a super strong read but it's the strongest one I have atm

I'm never kira. you can think I'm a follower but I wouldn't play kira like this.

you have to realise that kira is not putting their neck outs for anyone.

I just think you are scum. Maybe Kira maybe follower

[Black]

Gimli left his tunnel and is solving the game. Personally I love to see it

[Black]

i don't think that's a good poe, i'm not kira and i don't think it's mala or lorne tbh

i think that post by kawaii just now is potentially trying to buddy it doesn't actually say much of anything new

VOTE: kawaiikame

this is really scummy

VOTE: malakittens

That was StD?

[Black]

Oh I am just dumb. Nothing to see here

[Black]

I think a follower's mindset would be defending kira, not defending necessarily the followers

Followers don't even know who each other are so there's a chance they've scumread each other by now

[Black]

Since we were both wrong, let's change the topic.

Let's all play a game. Which person do you think is most likely NOT to be Kira as of right now and why?

Gimli.

But I would vote Gimli over Black if that were somehow the decision because I think Black is about 0% to be a follower.

Vander can you elaborate why Gimli was your least likely to be Kira? What was it about Gimli's play before this post that made you think no way it's him?

[Black]

I don't think "no way it's him," but I think his engagement level and explanations of his thought process made him the most likely town by a pretty large margin.

Does this mean you expect Kira to engage less? His thought processes all seem pretty easy to fake as scum imo so I'm not sure what made him town to you in that regard

[Black]

Here’s the thing that’s bothering me re: gimli
If he *thinks* I’m decetive than he shouldn’t be voting me.

That's an incredible point

[Black]

It feels like Gimli has been "detective hunting"... Earlier he asked Kokichi several times why they TRed mala. Like he suspected an assistant/detective combo there and really wanted Kokichi to give him a reason not to vote her

And then just recently he said "mala may have a reason to play like this as town"

But then he guns for mala while thinking she could be detective? FeelsWeirdMan

To me it feels like Gimli thinks the Detective is in the lurker pool yet he has solely pushed lurkers this game

[Black]

Gimli, what changed between your mala detective prediction and now that makes you think she's more likely to be Kira?

[Black]

the detective and the kira will play similarly

Knowing this don't you think it would be wise to push people for reasons other than how they are playing? If you think Kira/detective will lurk/not contribute much then why are you using these things as your sole reason to push these people?

[Black]

I just put her there cause std defended her in a premeditaded manner. i wasn't making a detective read, i just put a pair there for flimsy reasoning

That's silly. Assistant might also defend the detective in this way. You're ignoring that when you push

[Black]

you're scumreading me for playing the game imo

Nah, I just think you have underlying motives

[Black]

Knowing this don't you think it would be wise to push people for reasons other than how they are playing?

no.

Cool what about my second question in that post?

[Black]

So nothing changed to make you think mala is more likely to be Kira and yet here you are pushing her

Yeah I think it's just Gimli here

[Black]

I can't parse the difference and because of that I wouldn't push people for having that playstyle knowing they could be Kira/detective. I would find other things to look at. But you're not and I feel like that's coming from a wolf mindset

[Black]

what does it mean 'its just gimli'? there are three scums, and you already waffled this answer before because you think I can be either kira or follower, so how come 'its just gimli' is a real thing you're thinking? flipping me ends the game, thats what 'just gimli' means?

Obviously I'm not using "just" as in you're the only scum. What? I think you're probably a follower though tbh

[Black]

well your kira hunting has been poor, you're playing this like one of your micros and it's not

I'll be V/la for the rest of the week now bye

You think? Funny you agree with me on kawaii and Lorne but my Kira hunting has been poor?

[Black]

idk if your town game is actually this bad

You know my town game is awful actually but we can't talk about that rn. So what are you even saying?

[Black]

I encourage everyone to take a 2nd...maybe even a 3rd look at Gimli. Preferably people with a better town game than me

[Black]

So nothing changed to make you think mala is more likely to be Kira and yet here you are pushing her

Take note that Gimli dodged this observation twice

[Black]

I just don’t see the full motive on either alignment for what he’s doing.

The wolf motive is pretty clear imo. Stick your neck out D1 and try to control the game so no one suspects you. Try to vote for people that are lurky while pushing the idea that lurky probably means detective, but cover it up by saying Kira is probably lurky too. This also clears himself due to his own aggressive behavior. Push wagons to try and pressure the lurky detective to claim. Hop off and push someone else that might be detective after you drop the read on the other player

Idk. Makes sense to me?

[Black]

So nothing changed to make you think mala is more likely to be Kira and yet here you are pushing her

Take note that Gimli dodged this observation twice

I stand corrected here. Gimli said he thinks mala is Kira because he townreads kawaii. That's not a good reason to move someone from "probably detective" to "probably Kira" and then push them though

[Black]

What is the case on gimli

He's pushing people for being lurky/unproductive while acknowledging that the Detective would probably play this way. It would be one thing if these pushes had other reasons like, ya know, they're acting scummy? But the push on kawaii and now Mala is all based on a playstyle that could fit the most important town role in the game. He mentioned associatives but then admitted Assistant/Detective could have these associatives too

If Gimli thinks Detective/Kira will have similar playstyles and associatives like he says...why does it make sense for town!Gimli to push these players on playstyle/associatives alone?

There's more, like the meta case earlier, and a few other things but this is the jist of it for me

[Black]

Oh and Gimli said it's not a good idea to push people for reasons other than their playstyle. Lolwut

Knowing this don't you think it would be wise to push people for reasons other than how they are playing?

no.

[Black]

so many words

Yeah that's kinda the thing about forum mafia huh

[Black]

Now I'm wondering why Gimli doesn't think Meg could be Kira. Half of their posts came over 4 days ago. I'll have to check his ISO for his thoughts on that slot

[Black]

@Kawaii

the detective and the kira will play similarly

the followers and the assistant will play similarly

I'm not detective hunting

[Black]

the detective and the kira will play similarly

0kay I see now

I'm pretty sure he's said this other times too but this is the most recent and I can't ISO atm because I'm on mobile at the gym lol

[Black]

@Kawaii can you explain again why you don't think Gimli can be a follower?

[Black]

This is the post Gimli is attributing to Meg definitely not being Kira? It's so easy for Kira to write this and actually smart. If Meg does get investigated she can just say Kira gave them the Death Note, and she's talking about using the DN here which would set her up with a guilty read for the rest of the game. How does this clear Meg from being Kira at all?

Spoiler: For kira's eyes only

You should definitely swap with me so I can kill people with the death note tonight.
I known it seems silly but consider the following pros and cons.

Pros

- If I am VT, it frames me and you appear innocent.
If I am a Kira follower, I would kill a townie and you would be fine.
If I am a power role, I'm likely killing a townie instead of whatever I'm supposed to be doing.
The frame is permanent.
It would be funny.
Literally noone would believe you actually did this and I would likely be limmed tomorrow for claiming it happened, assuming I am town.

Cons

There is an incredibly low chance you die to your own Death Note, although this would be a funny outcome.
You don't choose who dies n1.


Pros seem to be outweighing the cons here.
And I got my fanciest pen <3

Obviously I could be wrong here because I suck at the game but if Gimli is a follower then Meg might be a good candidate for his Kira

[Black]

@Kawaii can you explain again why you don't think Gimli can be a follower?

I think Gimli can be a follower, I'm focusing in on Kira

You just said you have a hard time believing he could be a follower

[Black]

vanderscamp is the towniest player I think. lorne trolled a bit too much to be kira.

but the one player with nearly no kira equity is hopefully meg. cause of that thing meg posted.

I don't really wanna talk about it too much, but I feel that meg might have openclaimed kira alignment, and it's still not a good flip because we should be focused solely on kira hunting.

Really? Meg is the one player with no Kira equity because of a post that Kira could have and would be smart to have written?

Now I'm thinking we just win if we flip Meg but them being Kira is mainly an associative feeling I have with Gimli being a follower. I'd be down to vote for either of these two today

[Black]

I want to know Gimli's defense to this, I'm having a hard time believing Gimli is Kira/follower but you have good points giving me 2nd thoughts...

he is scumreading me for playing the game, I don't have much to respond to that post. yes the detective and kira will have similar associatives, but that's not what I'm solely basing any reads of mine on. I'm townreading you and other players who are playing in a way that feels to come from a genuinely solvey place.

Can you explain your TR on Meg? Like walk me through it and paint me a beautiful picture how you reached this conclusion?

[Black]

I think that thing meg posted that I'm townreading feels like trying to bait kira into giving the death note to a townie. and I don't think that sort of gambit is something actual kira is gonna think about.

Idk...Kira!Meg clears themselves for the entire game if they pull it off. And no one is going to scumread their message to Kira so why not take the chance?

[Black]

What Meg posted has an extremely high reward with very minimal risk and I'm having a hard time seeing why you don't think they could be Kira for that alone

[Black]

@black re: meg, that's reading into it after the fact though

what's more likely, that meg thought that as a townie/follower, or as kira just to get a weird angle in which people think she is unlikely kira? with the possibility of drawing horrible attention to herself and getting hanged over 'you're a follower' type of accusations?

Super low risk. Super high reward. It's definitely possible

[Black]

It feels like Gimli has been "detective hunting"... Earlier he asked Kokichi several times why they TRed mala. Like he suspected an assistant/detective combo there and really wanted Kokichi to give him a reason not to vote her

And then just recently he said "mala may have a reason to play like this as town"

But then he guns for mala while thinking she could be detective? FeelsWeirdMan

To me it feels like Gimli thinks the Detective is in the lurker pool yet he has solely pushed lurkers this game

Do you really think this is the case?

I think Gimli is a follower so yeah I think these are his motives

[Black]

@Gimli would you mind doing this for me before you fade away?

I want to know Gimli's defense to this, I'm having a hard time believing Gimli is Kira/follower but you have good points giving me 2nd thoughts...

he is scumreading me for playing the game, I don't have much to respond to that post. yes the detective and kira will have similar associatives, but that's not what I'm solely basing any reads of mine on. I'm townreading you and other players who are playing in a way that feels to come from a genuinely solvey place.

Can you explain your TR on Meg? Like walk me through it and paint me a beautiful picture how you reached this conclusion?

[Black]

This specifically feels town to me, getting Kira takes precedence to everything else, though this can be a soft claim/signal saying he is a follower wanting to get to kira

I don't think it's town at all tbh. We should flip scum when we can, regardless if they are assumed to be follower or Kira

[Black]

but, sure, it's okay. I could be meg's follower. it makes sense from your point of view.

out for a few days now hopefully

pedit: I just did, it's a simple thing but you won't acknowledge that I could be townreading her for it. it's fine. you have your point.

Gimli you and I both know you don't TR Meg for just their post to Kira. You have been dropping "I TR Meg" bombs all game with no reasoning other than you naturally TR them. What are you TRing about their posts that's not the Kira post?

[Black]

Out for a few days? Conveniently til the deadline?

[Black]

Now I'm thinking we just win if we flip Meg but them being Kira is mainly an associative feeling I have with Gimli being a follower. I'd be down to vote for either of these two today

I'm willing to vote Meg > Gimli

Why though? You just said you think Gimli is probably town, so what makes Meg Kira/follower to you?

[Black]

Like for me Meg is pretty clearly one of the most likely options to be Kira if Gimli is follower. But what is your reasoning if you don't think Gimli is follower?

[Black]

you (black) shrug everything off as 'easy risk reward blablabla' because you're not reading things properly, imo.

I read it multiple times and I explained why Kira could easily write that. I mean look at the effect it had on you? "Meg is definitely not Kira for this" ...so yeah. The risk is minimal compared to the rewards which is literally coasting through the game being mechcleared from the most dangerous form of catching Kira (the investigation ability)

[Black]

I would like some thoughts from players not named Gimli. Do we think this post could come from Kira or nah?

Spoiler: For kira's eyes only

You should definitely swap with me so I can kill people with the death note tonight.
I known it seems silly but consider the following pros and cons.

Pros

- If I am VT, it frames me and you appear innocent.
If I am a Kira follower, I would kill a townie and you would be fine.
If I am a power role, I'm likely killing a townie instead of whatever I'm supposed to be doing.
The frame is permanent.
It would be funny.
Literally noone would believe you actually did this and I would likely be limmed tomorrow for claiming it happened, assuming I am town.

Cons

There is an incredibly low chance you die to your own Death Note, although this would be a funny outcome.
You don't choose who dies n1.


Pros seem to be outweighing the cons here.
And I got my fanciest pen <3

[Black]

you (black) shrug everything off as 'easy risk reward blablabla' because you're not reading things properly, imo.

I read it multiple times and I explained why Kira could easily write that. I mean look at the effect it had on you? "Meg is definitely not Kira for this" ...so yeah. The risk is minimal compared to the rewards which is literally coasting through the game being mechcleared from the most dangerous form of catching Kira (the investigation ability)

Wdym by the investigation being the most dangerous form of catching Kira/being mechcleared by it?

The whole reason I think it's smart for Meg to write their "give me the Death Note" post as Kira:

Assume Meg is Kira. They make this post as their 2nd post in the game asking to get the Death Note. In this post they confirm that they will use said Death Note. This means if the Detective investigates Meg tonight

or for the remainder of the game

then they will get a guilty read on Meg. But Meg can just say they got the guilty read because they were handed the Death Note and used it. It clears them from the Detective for the entire game

[Black]

I'm just asking if this post could come from Kira. I want to see if Gimli is in the minority here in thinking it absolutely can't

[Black]

you know what I changed my mind lets hang meg sorry meg

VOTE: meg

leggo all votes on meg

Why are you playing so weird right now. Or are you trying to mimic that's you're being all over the place now that I've called you out of being too sure on your reads?

He also got less confident once you called him out on his meta earlier fwiw

[Black]

If Meg is town then I'm sure their post comes from a genuine place of wanting the DN. I'm in a place where I feel like Gimli is scum and I'm looking for his Kira. Meg is the first associative that I've explored and their "give me the DN" post is alarming when you think of the implications of Kira posting it

[Black]

1. Gimli is town that thinks Meg isn't Kira - he would vote them here out of spite that we are probably wrong
2. Gimli is a follower and Meg isn't his Kira - he would vote them here to take pressure off of his own wagon and try to say "see? told you!" tomorrow
3. Gimli is a follower and Meg is his Kira - he would vote them here to make us think there is no way Meg is his Kira
4. Gimli is Kira? - doubtful at this point

[Black]

I find it weird that Gimli declared v/la in the middle of me saying it might be him and Meg but has continued to post here

[Black]

when I die and the game doesn't end, you could probably wagon STD tomorrow and it'd might be a good thing cause he might be your kira

The game won't end when you die. You're a follower silly

[Black]

If Meg is town then I'm sure their post comes from a genuine place of wanting the DN. I'm in a place where I feel like Gimli is scum and I'm looking for his Kira. Meg is the first associative that I've explored and their "give me the DN" post is alarming when you think of the implications of Kira posting it

Who do you feel is Gimli's Kira if not Meg? I feel Meg wanting the DN as town too

Umm I haven't explored other options yet. Vander seems a bit too obvious. Idk I'd have to take a look through the thread later

[Black]

Could be you Kawaii, honestly

[Black]

But I don't have strong reads yet and will need to expand on that another time

[Black]

The conversation has spun WILDLY out of my comprehension. Can this one get an update or two?

I think reading the last 5 pages would be better than any recap tbh

[Black]

I'm not down to eliminate Gimli this day phase, it seems too convenient, like think logically, why pursue me being Kira so much if he believes I am Kira as a follower? That feels ultimately town to me

What do you mean here? I thought he was pursuing you because he thought you were Kira?

[Black]

I'm not down to eliminate Gimli this day phase, it seems too convenient, like think logically, why pursue me being Kira so much if he believes I am Kira as a follower? That feels ultimately town to me

What do you mean here? I thought he was pursuing you because he thought you were Kira?

Precisely, why would a follower of Kira pursue to eliminate me if he believed I am Kira?

Maybe I'm just dumb but I'm not following. If Gimli is a follower and you are town, why would he not push you if you're acting like Kira?

[Black]

Guys... it's in the first post...

The followers know who Kira is. The followers do NOT know each other, and Kira does NOT know who the followers are

[Black]

So you still feel like Gimli is town even though your main reason for TRing him was you misunderstanding the rules? You just changed why you think Gimli is town after the rules got cleared up. What

[Black]

I need to take a break. My brain hurts

[Black]

I don't think it's reasonable to assume that if you think Kira and the detective are going to play similarly, it follows that you should just start not hunting Kira for how you think Kira is going to play.

That's not what I said. I don't think anyone should stop hunting for Kira based on playstyle. In this setup, I don't think playstyle should be used as the sole reason to vote someone and adamantly rally others to follow through with the elimination because that playstyle could apply to the Detective and Kira. There should be more to it don't you agree? It's Gimli's definitive confidence in pushes that are just as likely to flip town's losing role as town's winning one that is making me think he's not playing from a town perspective

Let's assume for a second that Gimli is scum. Think of the wolf motive behind pushes like these, using the reasoning Gimli has used for them. Then think about his Kira pool of {Std, mala, Lorne} and formerly kawaii. He's running up players that follow his own definition of how a Detective would play in order to get a Detective claim. He'll hop from kawaii to mala, to StD, then maybe Lorne until one sticks

[Black]

Now I have to go back and read what just happened because idek

[Black]

I legit didn't read the opening role spoilers until now, I always knew of the possibility but I didn't know the followers knowing who Kira is as a hard game mechanic

Now this can't be true right? If you didn't read the spoilers at all and just assumed this was a normal-type setup then why would you then not assume Kira and the followers know each other? Why would you immediately assume they don't know each other if that's not how Mafia normally works?

[Black]

Also Kawaii, why did you not read the spoilers way earlier when we told you that only Kira knows what skills aren't in play?

[Black]

Gimli/kawaii is suddenly really interesting to me now and Gimli is trying to brush the kawaii stuff under the rug. It would have to be Gimli Kira though right? It seems so weird the other way around

[Black]

I feel Vander > Gimli to vote if we pursue this

I'm willing to vote Meg > Gimli

These are weird. Kawaii has tried to pull me away from Gimli multiple times

[Black]

Thats the worst tinfoil you could possibly come up with congratulations

I'm just thinking out loud. I'm not convinced this is reality but I'm looking into it, as I should

[Black]

This is such a weird interaction from a few pages ago...

I want to know Gimli's defense to this, I'm having a hard time believing Gimli is Kira/follower but you have good points giving me 2nd thoughts...

@Kawaii can you explain again why you don't think Gimli can be a follower?

I think Gimli can be a follower, I'm focusing in on Kira

You just said you have a hard time believing he could be a follower

Good eye, I meant to say I find it hard to believe he's Kira and I find him being a follower less likely than a town, it's the least likely he's Kira, less likely he's a follower, most likely he is town

[Black]

I know it's okay you're just rly exhausting to deal with but you're just playing and that's okay

Dude, if you are town, I cannot be the first person to play bad around you. Why are you calling me out like this? Why am I even exhausting? Because I suck? smh

[Black]

Playing on this site is so frustrating sometimes

[Black]

I had some conception of a disconnect between Kira and the followers, I knew Kira/followers didn't know of each other, I didn't know if it was the Followers not knowing Kira/if it was Kira not knowing the followers, the separation implied they didn't share the same role pm, I kept reading one didn't know who the 2nd was

Where did this conception come from?

What do you mean by "the separation implied they didn't share the same role pm"?

And how did you pass the pre-game test without reading the spoilers?

[Black]

This one thinks that if it had to vote then it might just choose Gimli. A vote count would be highly appreciated first.

Why Gimli after 992?

UNVOTE:

[Black]

This one admittedly still isn't as caught up as it'd like to be but it feels like something about him and his reads has been... off. It'll try and do an actual proper ISO read later but this food poisoning has been keeping me mostly in the bed and bathroom and it's been hard to keep up properly. Apologies.

(I hope you feel better <3)

[Black]

0h right, now Ik how Ik Kira and the followers didn't know each other, Enchant stated in 3. "Kira does not have a role PM", implying Kira/the followers as seperate thus it's likely one doesn't know about the other

What do you mean by "3" ? Sorry, my brain is fried

[Black]

I think you can paraphrase but not quote. I didn't think you were talking about role PM or else I probably wouldn't have asked

[Black]

I think you might be a follower though

VOTE: KawaiiKame

[Black]

That's e-2 btw

[Black]

I guess he could be Kira too. There's nothing in the Kira PM that says anything about followers/Kira not knowing each other

[Black]

If I'm a follower this means me not reading my own role pm...

If I'm Kira this means me not knowing/reading my own followers game mechanics

0nly way this makes sense is if I'm town who failed to read the in game set up mechanics,
I am town who failed to read the in game set up mechanics...

Do we think this is out of the question when we're talking about someone that didn't read the spoiler tags?

[Black]

UNVOTE:

Sorry. Maybe I'm rushing. I want to look at things again before we do anything tbh. We still have 3 days and I need at least one more to think about this

[Black]

At least we hit page 50. Maybe we will get to 60 before day ends.

Especially if you keep making posts like these...

[Black]

I can get back on the Gimli wagon. Something is up with kawaii but I can't figure it out

VOTE: Gimli

[Black]

At least we hit page 50. Maybe we will get to 60 before day ends.

Especially if you keep making posts like these...

Especially if you keep making posts like these...

Especially if... wait

[Black]

I can get back on the Gimli wagon. Something is up with kawaii but I can't figure it out

VOTE: Gimli

I struggle to find it more likely that it's an intentional false dumbtell over actually just missing some of the setup information.

Yeah that's kinda where I'm leaning after reading over a bit this morning. Still want to keep the possibility of him being Kira in my head though

[Black]

That's a great question and I think I would have to comb back over the thread to look for associatives. I've been under the impression Gimli is more likely to be a follower so I've been thinking more about who his Kira could be

[Black]

malakittens never plays this game like this as vt. she is either kira or one of the PRs.

that's my last thought for this game if you really wanna kill me. mala is my last answer as to who kira might be. flipping me is fine im just a vt, im a safe option.

This is either a wolf post or a town post coming from someone that doesn't care about losing the game D1

Can we just send Gimli packing here?

[Black]

Why would town!Gimli be totally cool with losing the game D1?

[Black]

malakittens never plays this game like this as vt. she is either kira or one of the PRs.

that's my last thought for this game if you really wanna kill me. mala is my last answer as to who kira might be. flipping me is fine im just a vt, im a safe option.

This is either a wolf post or a town post coming from someone that doesn't care about losing the game D1

Can we just send Gimli packing here?

the only reason why we're gonna lose is because you're thread captaining the game

Stfu. I really don't like you

[Black]

like you dont grasp the difficulty and then you punish me for playing

You're getting punished for not caring about losing the game D1 in your bloodthirsty attempt to win the game D1. Assuming you're town of course

But I think you're scum. And you admitting you don't care if you push a PR to claim makes me more than ok voting you off here

Like, we don't understand the difficulty? I don't think you do tbh. If you are town then the last thing we want D1 is the Detective/Assistant to have to claim. We can win the game if we don't catch Kira here but we more than likely LOSE the game if we force a PR to claim

[Black]

Kira claims Detective. We force them to use the vig to prove it and then we kill them when they can't. GG

[Black]

Kira claims Detective. We force them to use the vig to prove it and then we kill them when they can't. GG

^

Game solved

Wanna vote Gimli with us?

[Black]

This is either a wolf post or a town post

Yes, the big dilemma.

I hate you

[Black]

This is why I hate this day 1 lasting so long cause it makes me question over my reads too much

Isn't questioning your reads a good thing?

[Black]

No, but it should mean that you know the scum case for Gimli already. It's been repeated like 5 times it feels like

Ik, I keep doubting Gimli is scum too
Hardest evidence is the outing thing

I thought you hard TRed Gimli?

[Black]

This is why I hate this day 1 lasting so long cause it makes me question over my reads too much

You should question your reads constantly
My only consistent read is Black is town

Ngl I kinda like that you sheep me in every game we play. It feels like I have a little mini-me