Mini 619 - Ramen Mafia (Over!)

[sthar8]

Beyond_Birthday: I haven't attacked anyone yet. What I

am

doing is asking a lot of questions while expressing my opinions on things the town seems interested in. Some of the questions I ask may seem insignificant; I assure you that they are not. The answers to these early, low pressure questions provide a baseline by which we can evaluate the behavior of individuals and groups later in the game. It also gives us a more informed look at the mindset and attitude of each player. Deviations from established patterns in tone and style can be very helpful in determining the motivation behind an action. Since the scum aim to imitate townie behavior, but differ in their motivations, determining motivation is the key to catching scum.

Also, what I said in my early opinion of Kiwi was that he appeared

anxious about being perceived as scummy

. He posted later that he expected to receive attacks based on that post. I said nothing regarding the information or context the tactic generated, other that calling it "fair strategy" at this point, although I don't think it was optimal play.

Is your reasoning on Kiwi based on his assumption that I am town, or something else that I missed?

Food: Hopefully this will help you understand what I'm getting at. From your last few posts, I get the feeling that you think I'm attacking you over stupid reasons. I would like to stress that I'm not really gunning for you right now.

Oman: Actually I wanted to know more about how you disagreed with strife. And I would argue (in a more appropriate place) that LAL is a sound strategy that is often misapplied, as it would have been if anyone had brought it up regarding Food's mistake.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

okay this is just for me, I like to be able to see things and stuff else I will lose my train of thought.

If I am correct, Kiwi is currently at 4 votes and food is at 2. anyone else having a vote is only at one, and food is the only person not voting.

That said I think Food's accusations (if you wanna call them that) at me about calling him on his dice roll first/mix-up seems like he honestly made a mistake, I'm not too worried about that at this point.

Kiwi's play has been a bit off, he (he right?:S) has seemed a bit nervous about looking scummy/messing up.

I am not gonna do my typical uber-conservative voting style considering our deadlined days, however at this point I am gonna

unvote

until I can re-read the past few pages again and look for anything that really jumps out at me.

[charter]

unvote
vote Darla

For hypocrisy and basically waiting for someone to build a case she can latch onto. (That's how I interpret 'look for anything that really jumps out at me')

[sthar8]

Darla, I also like to "see things and stuff" but there are not a lot of ways to do that legally in the US

I'm suspicious of Kiwi for his vote on food, which seemed more like bandwagoning than anything else.

I'm a little suspicious for strife, as his vote on Kiwi was based on a safe topic rather than Kiwi's recent actions. Plenty of people had time to comment on the "appearing scum to catch scum" thing, and strife could have seen that no one was likely to suspect an attack based on it. This is very weak though, there are several other explanations that work.

Windkirby has a poorly justified wagon vote on food, which sets off all kinds of bells. I need a better explanation fo the vote and some other observations from kirby, or he'll get my vote.

We need to hear more from ClockworkRuse before he starts risking modkill. I'd like to hear Liam's opinions on recent developments, and I'm looking forward t Darla's observations. I also have a question for Oman outstanding, but he probably just hasn't seen it yet.

[windkirby]

Oman - I know LAL is a flawed strategy; total joke.

Muerrto - Wow, I'm sigg'd! I

feel

so special... Well, I suppose it had to happen sooner or later.

sthar8 - The thing is that I'm sort of OCD about always having my vote somewhere, even if it's for a tiny reason. I admit the third vote isn't the best, but honestly, his doing dice was the only thing so far that really jumped out. If he gets uncomfortably close to a lynch this early in the game or I get a scum reading on someone else, I will switch votes.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

unvote
vote Darla

For hypocrisy and basically waiting for someone to build a case she can latch onto. (That's how I interpret 'look for anything that really jumps out at me')

First off I'm not waiting, I have a busy weekend and didn't wanna throw out a vote without a reasonably good reason.

Could you please point out the hypocrisy though?

[charter]

I am not gonna do my typical uber-conservative voting style considering our deadlined days, however at this point I am gonna

unvote

Saying you're not going to be conservative with your vote, but then unvote

[Beyond_Birthday]

@Windkirby: Maybe. But, I am in general suspicious of anyone who thinks that a person is mafia over something stupid like dice.

(No change of opinion since last post.

[ClockworkRuse]

I thought my scuminess would get us out of random voting faster and more people would be questioning >.< Is it just that the two who are giving me beef are the most experienced or the only ones really reading or are they scum trying to build off of anything scummy they see >.< I need some time to process the reactions a bit more >.<

Acting intentionally scummy is never good for the town. It veils the real scum while you attempt to "start discussion" by making the town focus on you.

Anyways, I believe that attacking someone over

dice

of all things is no reason to put Food up to four votes. If there isn't at least one scum on that wagon, I would be surprised. There is absolutely no reason to be putting that much pressure on someone for using dice. I chose someone because I like the number seven, so are you going to call me scum for that?

Now then, on to the hunting.


MLF -

aioqwe because he has two suspicions that were equal and put one on me without a strong justification that leaned towards me more that his other suspicion

In my opinion, this is a lousy reason for an FoS. Applying pressure to you when he has two suspects of equal scumminess isn't a cause for alarm. He just picked one of the two. Now then, that said, his reasons for finding you suspicious are flimsy.

Windkirby because he put a vote on me with a flimsy justification, and it just looks like a regular bandwagon.

I haven't seen any big leads yet, but vote: melikefood. Not crazy about dicing.

This may warrant an

FoS

.

WK, can I ask why you felt it was alright to attack MLF for the same weak reasons that others were already pressuring him for?

Charter- Attacking Darla because she unvoted is... rather weak as well. Unvoting until she can re-read and form her own opinions of what is happening isn't something that warrents a vote. I would like you to explain why you find this scummy.

[Oman]

I disagree with "Getting us out of random by making yourself look scum is bad" I feel that its more "Getting us out of random REGARDLESS of the fact you look scummy".

You understand? Looking scummy is an unfortunate byproduct, not a goal to be acheived.


My problem with LAL (lynch all liars) is that it assumes that protown players do not have a reason to lie, and that lieing is immediatly anti-town, neither of which are true.

I have (and will continue to) lied several times as town, and to the towns benefit. The other problem with LAL is that it is essentially a policy in that lynch

all

liars allows for no wiggle room. Look at the intent of the lie, the reasons, and observe whether or not that is scummy, not the fact that it is not the truth.

[ClockworkRuse]

I disagree with "Getting us out of random by making yourself look scum is bad" I feel that its more "Getting us out of random REGARDLESS of the fact you look scummy".

I have to disagree with you here. Someone will act scummy sooner or later, doing it intentionally doesn't help the town.

[Oman]

No you're right, but I doubt he was truly doing it intentionally.

The point is to not be afraid.

[sthar8]

Oman: I read from Kiwi's post 43 that he was intending to bait attacks on his scumminess, but I may have been mistaken.

As for LAL, as I said, it is often misapplied. I also believe it is worded in a nonflexible manner because Lynch Some Liars has no vowels and is less catchy It also creates a meta which avoids some very bad situations for pro-town power roles, which I approve of.

I just looked at your profile and realized that you are younger than me. I do not consider myself to be old, so I disagree with your qualitative judgement in post 49. As I understand it, if you were gay, you would fit into the definition I was referring to perfectly.

[aioqwe]

We can't necessarily wait for later. I had one game where we dragged on practically random voting the entire game. Especially considering the deadline restrictions, I'd rather not wait for later, get in something a tad scummy so people talk. That makes more chances for the actual scum to slip up.

I dismissed sthar because my suspicion for him was based on his fishing for Oman's role. When I realized he was just fitting in with the joke, I wasn't so suspicious.

I called attention to Darla mostly because Food's connection to her. He specified her although there wasn't anything particular about her. I guess for somewhat equal reasons I could draw a connection between food and Oman because he skipped over Oman. That said, it makes no sense for me to pressure Darla, I would pressure the person who is initiating the connections.

Furthermore, it isn't simply "dice voting". He wants to look at interactions yet he's not offering up his own "interactions" he's hiding while pushing everyone else into the open. That seems scummy imo. Tie it in to the connection to Darla he made, I felt it warranted a vote.

As for actually voting, charter's vote was random, who knows how charter will take actions, I can't control if other people vote after me. But I saw something and voted for it. (None of you have played with me, but normally I'm not this active and vote-happy)

My intention isn't to bait attacks. To some degree it is. People who seem overly wagony or are latching on more for other people's reasons rather than understanding the reasons why it makes me scum would be seen as scummy. Someone who legitimately points it out and acts accordingly is scummy. Someone who ignores other scummy actions as long as my wagon is larger might also be seen as scummy. My point is to draw reactions. If everyone just random votes or dice rolls, no reactions are drawn. We can dabble around in normal games but I felt the urge because of the deadline to draw some reactions and get discussion going fast.

Muerrto, where do I include a lot of filler?

[aioqwe]

Kiwi has my suspicion for the same reason as was already mentioned, and he is the best spot for number 2

Unvote vote Aiquowe

I'm not exactly sure I understand this. Your unvote/vote puts me in the number 1 spot, so I'm not number 2? If you think I'm your number 2 suspicion, why not vote your number 1? Or do you mean something else?

[aioqwe]

Wicked OP, I don't get it tho.... >.< (hah, filler XD)

[Oman]

Kiwi has my suspicion for the same reason as was already mentioned, and he is the best spot for number 2

Unvote vote Aiquowe

I'm not exactly sure I understand this. Your unvote/vote puts me in the number 1 spot, so I'm not number 2? If you think I'm your number 2 suspicion, why not vote your number 1? Or do you mean something else?

My 2nd wagon. Wagon no 2

[strife220]

Anybody wanna give me the TLDR version of that opening post? I wasn't in PEGBAM, and I got confused/bored after the first few sentences (sorry flameaxe!). Not sure if there's anything useful or if it's all just flavor.

We can't necessarily wait for later. I had one game where we dragged on practically random voting the entire game. Especially considering the deadline restrictions, I'd rather not wait for later, get in something a tad scummy so people talk. That makes more chances for the actual scum to slip up.

I admit I have no meta here, but this sounds like lying. In the 4 pages thus far you really don't seem like the calculating type. I'd peg you as the type of townie who would just play it as it comes. If I'm completely wrong here, I'd love some meta example of you as town pulling a calculated 'stunt.'

My vote stands for now. I'm actually dead serious when I say I bet there's scum on that previous MLF-wagon. aioqwe and windkirby's votes were so terribly place, and now charter is crawling up my scum-list.

4 votes on MLF is much more pushy than a dice vote deserves, in my opinion. Me thinks there's at least one scum on that wagon, unless there's another reason for voting him that I missed. Aioqwe and windkirby both have pretty crappy reasons for joining a wagon like that.

I'll go ahead and fix this for you.

unvote
vote strife

If you're already going to assume that one of four people is scum, I'll just go ahead and assume you're scum.

Serious now, you're already trying to direct suspicion towards others, hence my vote on you. Not really towards a single person either...

That's just a plain BS attack. Directing suspicion away from a wagon based off of random voting onto two people highlighted for opportunistic bandwagoning is in no way scummy. You also implied that I highlighted the entire wagon which I didn't. The vote also has an air of OMGUS to it since you were on that wagon.


He then takes a bit of heat for the the vote, and leads it up with another crappy vote:

unvote
vote Darla

For hypocrisy and basically waiting for someone to build a case she can latch onto. (That's how I interpret 'look for anything that really jumps out at me')

Darla clearly stated that her unvote was temporary and promised a re-read before she voted.



That's two crappy votes in a row, worded in a way that made those being voted seem much more scummy than their actions warranted. Charter is my #2 suspect, just below aioque.

[CallMeLiam]

Just a few observations...

unvote

No need for that anymore.

unvote
vote Darla

For hypocrisy and basically waiting for someone to build a case she can latch onto. (That's how I interpret 'look for anything that really jumps out at me')

This looked like a pretty soft vote at first, but considering the deadline and the fact that I actually liked Darla's post it comes off as a bit worse.

Serious now, you're already trying to direct suspicion towards others, hence my vote on you. Not really towards a single person either...

This would apply if he was under heavy pressure, but he's not shunting attention away from himself. Like Oman said, it just looks like some nice active scumhunting.


Melikefood wouldn't have earned my vote for the random vote thing, BUT afterwards came this:

D: Oh no, 4 votes on me...

I'm dismissing sthar, and looking at darla and food.

...

unvote, vote: food

These quotes don't seem to agree with each other.
Why did you picked me over Darla?

Which looked a little over defensive and paranoid.

[sthar8]

Strife: The first half of the flavor disposed of the remaining players in PEGBAM, made a few gay jokes about another member of this site, made a couple of remarks at Oman's expense, and established that Jdodge might be our villain. The second half established that we are all Ramen-people and created a setting in which this is normal. It had a nice explosion, a few horrible deaths, and much less rape than I expected. Nothing useful to our game, and I believe the mod when he said he'd keep alignment related information out of the flavor, as anything else would be plain stupid.

On a more serious note, I like your last post much more than the previous ones.

Liam: I agree about food's apparent attitude, but I'm not sure it points to anything.

Oman: I still have a question you haven't answered

I'm going to go ahead and

Unvote, Vote: charter

You have six in-game posts, and three of those have been votes. Two of the remaining three have been explanations for your serious votes. Now, your second point against Darla may be valid (I'll wait till her post to decide) but it seems to me that you are fishing for reactions with these votes, which could be scum trying out wagons to find the easy lynch.

[CallMeLiam]

Liam: I agree about food's apparent attitude, but I'm not sure it points to anything.

In my experience, that kind of stress is common in newb-scum, with the slightest hint of suspicion coming off as "OMG they're onto me!" I probably should have added that onto my post maybe.

I'm going to go ahead and

Unvote, Vote: charter

You have six in-game posts, and three of those have been votes. Two of the remaining three have been explanations for your serious votes. Now, your second point against Darla may be valid (I'll wait till her post to decide) but it seems to me that you are fishing for reactions with these votes, which could be scum trying out wagons to find the easy lynch.

Enh.

Fishing for reactions is one thing, but when the vote is removed before any serious analysis can be done and then dumped on someone else it does indeed look like opportunistic bandwagon hopping. With our days being limited I could certainly see scum trying to heighten the sense of "must lynch quickly!" with some swift poop slinging.

[sthar8]

Oman: I just realized that you've already answered my question. Sorry

[DarlaBlueEyes]

Hi guys! Just letting you all know I will be V/LA this weekend, (holiday) Will try to get a post up per day but I can't promise.

[melikefood]

I guess I have difficulty differentiating between a strong accusation and a mellow accusation.

[Oman]

Wicked OP, I don't get it tho.... >.< (hah, filler XD)

For those who want to know:

In PEGBAM (A mini normal) I played an SK who was NK immune but not Investigation Immune (note: this is also where my title came from). Flameaxe asked me for flavour so that he didn't have to write it. I suggested I interrogate a guy tied to a chaior! And then Bam was all "BETTER IDEA!" And it was the ramen idea and then shit happend and finnaly something happened.

I forgot what we were talking about.