Mini Theme 2022: Trapped! [Gameover]

[Myloninja13]

I'll be blatant here, my head is screaming to go for Kokichi but my gut is screaming to go for Feysal.

On one hand, objectively Kokichi is far more suspicious lol. Like, if I had a list of stats on what happened this game and nothing else I'd pretty easily go for Kokichi. But the thing is, players can't be defined by a list of stats and I know that Feysal is very capable of acting towny as scum. Kokichi doesn't seem to be behaving like I'd expect them as scum to do so, but not in a direct way. It's just lots of little things that don't make sense in my head for Kokichi!Scum.

But, I also know from experience that as scum sometimes you DON'T have a reason for doing things. You can just do a thing because "why not?". So it could easily be Kokichi!Scum just doing whatever.

Buuuut then my gut screams that Kokichi has to be town even though so much of the evidence is against them?!?

[Myloninja13]

8

Testing to get away with shit is dumb too. Why spend your social capital on low-value targets?

VOTE: Pine

Like this is one of those posts that goes strong both ways. I can imagine both Kokichi!Town doing this off genuine scum-suspicion but also I can imagine Kokichi posting in their scum thread "Okay so like I'm gonna target you for that Pine" "Cool cool".

[Myloninja13]

52

67

my goodness if KO didnt feel like scum who had been told PEdit wont come up if they are submitted at the same time. :Eek:

Or I was reading what I missed and responded to the first post with the quote post. So read nothing but that post and the previous for the number
At a stop light.

32

kokichi jumped in, dropped some numbers with minimal content, and didn't even post a normal number of posts before "needing to go"

OR I just got on my fucking lunch break and wanted to post before getting in the car. You guys are being ridiculous and making the game unfun. I want to contribute but every time I try you guys say some bullshit that is over analyzing. Please realize that people have lives and sometimes can't post 6 times in a row or whatever you're doing because they need to go and just want to post something then go. I think we still have at least 3 days? I dont get the panic. Like I'm legit waiting 20 minutes to post this post. The one quote above was 15 mins ago but I'm waiting for this spamming bullshit.

And I'm honestly not waiting anymore I dont care if you lynch me for it. I have to go and want to post this before I eat.

[Myloninja13]

2

That was 13 posts, Irrelephant.

For the record, I'm not holding this against Pine. It is early, and it is possible he has not yet read how this challenge works, so I can give the benefit of doubt.

@Mod:

What happens if the count is messed up and no one notices until much later?

Also, is the limit of 13 posts per page ever reset? As in, would further posts by Irrelephant on this page reset the count again?

Ahhhhhh this is another post that has the head vs. gut aspect. My head says Feysal as scum doesn't bring this up so early, but my gut says that giving Pine a benefit of the doubt is really suspicious and the "For the record" bit is like an out on starting the convo on him.

[Kokichi Oma]

Placeholder question just in case I don't get to this today lol:

Why do you think the other person made the night kills?

Which? You mean GL over you? Well guiltylion had a townread on me early in the game. Probably why he died

[Kokichi Oma]

You're free to look at my scum games. I'm way more involved in games as scum.

[Kokichi Oma]

Look at my town games and scum games. You'll see this is clearly the town. Pokemon mafia is my recent scum game.

[Kokichi Oma]

I defended my partner in that game even though it was nico who is so easily lynchable. As scum wouldn't I be more likely to protect or not go after pine here

[Myloninja13]

ahhh see my gut says you're right here (I'm reading that game right now) but my head says this also is kinda a flimsy excuse but like AHHHhhhh

[Kokichi Oma]

Not sure what else to tell you then

[Myloninja13]

I am not very good at, you know, DECIDING who the mafia is. Aside from that one game where I called out the scum team day 1 lol.

Anyway, whoever out of you is scum is playing an amazing game btw. But now I need to find out who it is!

[Myloninja13]

Feysal flipping from going for Kokichi to Ofrhz is sus as HELL but at the same time Koki flipped from Ofrhz to Feysal so...

[Myloninja13]

AHHH what am I even talking about?? Koki is Obv!Town here, and Feysal is Obv!Town, and really I'm scum here!

[Kokichi Oma]

Reminder that Feysal never voted scum once this game

[Kokichi Oma]

I'm fine with NK15 being the lynch target. Wanting to lynch Pine for not posting five times in succession is not exactly compelling, even if it were true.

End of day 1 when we were deciding between pine and NK15.

[Myloninja13]

How do people deal with the pressure of having to pick between two people!?!? EEK this is so tough.


Thought Dump (Click at caution, this is a giant mess and is mostly unreadable):

Spoiler:

Like, I've already said this but I find Koki scummy on a basic level, but past that I don't find them that scummy. For Feysal, it's the opposite, as they've really done nothing that can't be explained as towny but past that I've played with them and I feel like they've played like that before? And then they both flipped yesterday, but for Feysal it was to someone who could be lynched and for Koki it was someone who was less likely to be lynched which I think is scummy for Feysal? But at the same time it could be Koki preparing for the next day? And what about the fact I'm alive over Guilty, where as Feysal would prefer to have Guilty here as he didn't weirdly townread Koki like I did but also maybe that's Koki framing him or maybe I could drown in WIFOM??? But also like it could've just been a reasonable NK, like Teacher/FAQ/Irelephant? Oh, and what about that Enigma kill? Sus? Maybe? Weird kill with Guilty still there, way more lynchable than him. Unless..... was Enigma right on KOKI :O Or maybe Feysal did that to frame him or MORE WIFOM. The Pine VS. Koki point is cool but the problem is like their point for being town is that WAIT sorry hold on I just found a super duper suspicious line from Feysal "The funny thing is, before today I was leaning toward Kokichi being the last scum. I was still thinking that way after looking at interactions with flipped scum. And then Ofrhz opened his big mouth and talked himself into my prime suspect. Nicely done." That is NO NO NO! This just PINGS ME so much and I honestly may lynch Feysal just for this tbh. But also maybe not because maybe I'm reading too much into nothing? Or maybe Koki has a point about them as town not bussing their teammate like that. WAIT STOP HOLD ON I need to check something else YEP I found it so Koki said that they'd not bus their partner, but in the game they linked to they did on day 3 and actively pushed for their lynch. But Feysal's point about the meta thing holds up pretty well and having the 'vte' instead of 'vet' is also pretty strong for them being town. The problem is that their explanation for what they'd do as scum IS BASICALLY WHAT THEY DID this game lol. Like, they did mimic their town play and helped with challenges, especially the easy ones and when your explanation as to what you'd do as scum is what you're doing then like I dunno where to go from there. And their response to their biggest regret; hell honestly both theirs and Koki's BOTH sound kinda meh but particularly Feysal's. But at the same time, it's all surface-level towny but gut-scummy so AHHHHAHHHHAHAHAHHHHHHHHHH

So yeah, those are just a few of the thoughts from me lol. Thankfully there's no specific deadline so there can be plenty more coming lol.

[Kokichi Oma]

new and improved reads
{Irrelephant, NSG, Mylo, Kokichi}
{Pine, Feysal, Prof Fridays}
{Enigma, ofhrz, Chickadee}

He tr me

[Kokichi Oma]

latest reads
{Irrelephant, Kokichi, Enigma}
{ofrhz, mylo, Feysal}
{Prof Fridays, Pine}

honestly I doubt these will change much today but I've said that a few times before and been wrong so

[Kokichi Oma]

Like it is obvious why he died.

[Myloninja13]

True but like I also strongly townread you at the end of yesterday lol.

I'm

leaning

Feysal right now but there's so many points that can be made either way

[Myloninja13]

Going to sleep for tonight though

[Kokichi Oma]

How do people deal with the pressure of having to pick between two people!?!? EEK this is so tough.


Thought Dump (Click at caution, this is a giant mess and is mostly unreadable):

Spoiler:

Like, I've already said this but I find Koki scummy on a basic level, but past that I don't find them that scummy. For Feysal, it's the opposite, as they've really done nothing that can't be explained as towny but past that I've played with them and I feel like they've played like that before? And then they both flipped yesterday, but for Feysal it was to someone who could be lynched and for Koki it was someone who was less likely to be lynched which I think is scummy for Feysal? But at the same time it could be Koki preparing for the next day? And what about the fact I'm alive over Guilty, where as Feysal would prefer to have Guilty here as he didn't weirdly townread Koki like I did but also maybe that's Koki framing him or maybe I could drown in WIFOM??? But also like it could've just been a reasonable NK, like Teacher/FAQ/Irelephant? Oh, and what about that Enigma kill? Sus? Maybe? Weird kill with Guilty still there, way more lynchable than him. Unless..... was Enigma right on KOKI :O Or maybe Feysal did that to frame him or MORE WIFOM. The Pine VS. Koki point is cool but the problem is like their point for being town is that WAIT sorry hold on I just found a super duper suspicious line from Feysal "The funny thing is, before today I was leaning toward Kokichi being the last scum. I was still thinking that way after looking at interactions with flipped scum. And then Ofrhz opened his big mouth and talked himself into my prime suspect. Nicely done." That is NO NO NO! This just PINGS ME so much and I honestly may lynch Feysal just for this tbh. But also maybe not because maybe I'm reading too much into nothing? Or maybe Koki has a point about them as town not bussing their teammate like that. WAIT STOP HOLD ON I need to check something else YEP I found it so Koki said that they'd not bus their partner, but in the game they linked to they did on day 3 and actively pushed for their lynch. But Feysal's point about the meta thing holds up pretty well and having the 'vte' instead of 'vet' is also pretty strong for them being town. The problem is that their explanation for what they'd do as scum IS BASICALLY WHAT THEY DID this game lol. Like, they did mimic their town play and helped with challenges, especially the easy ones and when your explanation as to what you'd do as scum is what you're doing then like I dunno where to go from there. And their response to their biggest regret; hell honestly both theirs and Koki's BOTH sound kinda meh but particularly Feysal's. But at the same time, it's all surface-level towny but gut-scummy so AHHHHAHHHHAHAHAHHHHHHHHHH

So yeah, those are just a few of the thoughts from me lol. Thankfully there's no specific deadline so there can be plenty more coming lol.

Also day 3 I pushed my partner only because I needed to distance or I'd be jailkept and lose. Also as you said day 3 I did. This game I wanted pine immediately. Which would be different to my scum meta

[Kokichi Oma]

*crickets*

[Feysal]

Why do you think the other person made the night kills?

I don't think most of them require much explanation. Most of them were widely town read, and therefore difficult or impossible to mislynch, which is reason enough to kill them. Enigma is the only exception that stands out. GuiltyLion speculated that he could have slipped or crumbed or hinted at being fortunate, but if he did, I never noticed. I think that would have been a weak reason anyway, with a high risk of hitting an unfortunate instead, as he was. The most likely reason I can think of is that he suspected Kokichi. Enigma last voted Kokichi before being killed, and was the only person to do so besides Creative, who was lynched. Apart from that, you can see the suspicion in multiple posts from Enigma, including 1138, 1289, 1326 and 1416.

Throw Feysal in there. I definitely TR Elephant, Ofrhz and Feysal the most.
Conf is a strong word unless its mod or mechanic confirmed haha, I like townread better, so I don't embarrass myself end game.

Don't mind if I'm not conftown though, just would be nice not to be lynched haha.
My lynch pool is {Pine, Fridays, Kokichi}

Not only was Kokichi the last one left in Enigma's lynch pool when he died, I challenge anyone to explain why I would kill Enigma over GuiltyLion after he said this about me.

AHHH what am I even talking about?? Koki is Obv!Town here, and Feysal is Obv!Town, and really I'm scum here!

Why not vote yourself then?

I am joking, but I actually considered this yesterday. We have two fortunates and one scum left alive. If we could organize a three way tie, because of the special voting powers of fortunates, the scum would automatically be lynched in a tie without having to draw straws. Only problem is there is no way to guarantee a three way tie.

Scratch that. I'm not joking. I just had an idea as I was writing this which would increase the chance of town victory from 1/2 to 2/3.

Here is how it works. You must choose randomly who to vote, and include

yourself

in the lynch pool. Roll a die or something. 1 or 2, you vote me. 3 or 4, you vote Kokichi. 5 or 6, you vote yourself. This works because scum does not only need to convince you to vote town. Scum needs you to vote the

same

town scum is voting! By including yourself as an option, you will force scum to guess who they should vote, which increases town odds considerably.

If you vote yourself, and scum votes you, scum wins. Probability of this is 1/3 * 1/2 = 1/6.
If you vote town, and scum votes town, scum wins. Probability is 1/3 * 1/2 = 1/6.
If you vote yourself, but scum votes town, scum loses. Probability is 1/3 * 1/2 = 1/6.
If you vote town, but scum votes you, scum loses. Probability is 1/3 * 1/2 = 1/6.
If you vote scum, it does not matter who scum votes, because the other town always votes scum. Scum loses, and the probability is 1/3.
In total, this gives town a 2/3 chance of victory.

Just to make sure I got this right, I need to ask the mod.

@Mod:

What happens in a three way tie between two fortunates and one scum? Does the scum get lynched without having to draw straws?

Is self voting allowed?

[Feysal]

Some thoughts about that thought dump... I don't know why you would be troubled by my switch to Ofrhz. If you knew me better, you might even view it as a town tell. If I were scum, I would need to worry about appearances, and try to be reasonable and consistent with my reads. As town, I would be more likely to change my mind, being free from such concerns. Besides, I thought I had explained why I switched. The reasons Ofrhz suspected me for were so bad I did not believe they came from town, I thought he had an agenda to have me lynched. I was also pissed off. I try to be calm and logical as I play, but I'm not above getting angry. That was something Ofrhz was wrong about in his final analysis by the way. I don't think I have ever tried to appeal to emotions. If I sound angry, it is because I am. That post he quoted was in fact a bah post, written when I thought I had been speedlynched straight out of V/LA, and being unable to do anything about it because there was not even enough time for me to catch up.

As for my scum play being similar to my play here, well, you asked. I don't like to talk about my own meta, since it has gotten me in trouble with people who disagreed with my interpretation, but I have in fact never lied about it. Anyway, just because I mimic my town play as scum does not mean there are no differences. I already mentioned my level of effort and motivation as examples. As scum I also might not share my best ideas with the town. My first post in this game, where I said people should say in their last will when they became fortunate, is something I might keep to myself if I were scum. The post above about the merits of voting yourself, definitely.