433: Dry, bland, generic mafia: Game Over

[pete d]

My vote was random. Why is it suspicious that I didn't unvote him?

By not unvoting, in effect you are saying that you support the wagon that formed after your random vote. Just because your vote was random when you put it on, doesn't mean that it stays that way; It should be viewed the same as the other contributors to the wagon. Pretending otherwise is sneaky.

[superstring91]

My vote was random. Why is it suspicious that I didn't unvote him?

By not unvoting, in effect you are saying that you support the wagon that formed after your random vote. Just because your vote was random when you put it on, doesn't mean that it stays that way; It should be viewed the same as the other contributors to the wagon. Pretending otherwise is sneaky.

in this case, i'll say that i supported this particular wagon. it did no harm, got discussion rolling, and did some reaction fishing as well. overall, it was a good wagon

[The Fonz]

The Fonz also wrote

I think Superstring gets it. After all, if FOS are preferable to votes early on, why don't games begin with a random FOS stage?

Random voting came in after a few months of the games invention.
It wasn't a planned thing, it just caught on as it was quite dreary just saying Hi.
Once random votes have been placed (which is merely a ritual) then often people unvote and then FOS for a day or two until one or more players get a stronger hunch and vote or scum decide to jump onto someones back. Having said that, any player is free to act as they wish.

But we had

nothing

to go on at that point. Nothing. Overreacting to harmless votes is just a classic scumtell. Classic. If everyone random votes, that doesn't elicit anything, then what are you basing your FOS on? Nothing, that's what.

I haven't voted flippantly. I voted randomly once, once to elicit information (successfully) and once on the guy who acted scummily by falling into the trap laid.

[kilmenator]

Wow, this is the kind of game I like! Discussion on the first few pages!

My opinion about the whole vote thing. I agree that it is dangerous to put someone at lynch -3, but I also think it unlikely that they would be quick lynched, because I would bet that at least 1 scum are on the wagon already, and no scum is going to quick lynch that early on day 1.

I do like how the discussion has been sparked from it and the reactions, while right now may not be valuable, but it will later allow us something to analyze later.

Busy right now, actually at work, but will try to post more tonight...

[superstring91]

My opinion about the whole vote thing. I agree that it is dangerous to put someone at lynch -3, but I also think it unlikely that they would be quick lynched, because I would bet that at least 1 scum are on the wagon already, and no scum is going to quick lynch that early on day 1.

on page 2 day 1, L-3 is not dangerous at all. especially if scum is already on the wagon, and even if no scum is on the wagon. they will not risk giving themselves up.

[Dodgy]

The Fonz wrote

But we had nothing to go on at that point. Nothing.

Exactly my point, so why start a band wagon at this point?

Overreacting to harmless votes is just a classic scumtell. Classic.

Firstly, I think you are the one that is making a big thing of this. My comments were not over reacting at all, I was merely pointing out the obvious.
And secondly, What would you know about

Classic scumtells

?
Correct me if I'm wrong but you have only been playing for a couple of weeks and being privy to all members lists and their IP addresses, I can see that you havn't been a player before that date under a different name, so I ask again, are you really experienced enough to make such a statement?

then what are you basing your FOS on?

I'm basing my FOS on your defensivness which is quite outstanding considering the stage at which this game is at and the comments of mine for which you are reffering to.
Let me elaborate on your last staement by Quoting the entire sentence, which I think sums my point up exactly.....

then what are you basing your FOS on? Nothing, that's what.

"Nothing, that's what? Your angst precedes you!

[superstring91]

The Fonz wrote

But we had nothing to go on at that point. Nothing.

Exactly my point, so why start a band wagon at this point?

to start discussion so that we would be able to watch reactions, and actually have something to go on. if we never started a wagon, or voted at all for that matter, the game would stall.

Overreacting to harmless votes is just a classic scumtell. Classic.

Firstly, I think you are the one that is making a big thing of this. My comments were not over reacting at all, I was merely pointing out the obvious.
And secondly, What would you know about

Classic scumtells

?
Correct me if I'm wrong but you have only been playing for a couple of weeks and being privy to all members lists and their IP addresses, I can see that you havn't been a player before that date under a different name, so I ask again, are you really experienced enough to make such a statement?[/quote]

you have no clue what hes played outside MS, our outside the internet for that matter. now, i dont think its a

classic scumtell

but it is something to look at later on down the road.

[Dodgy]

@ superstring... youre right of course but to my knowledge, there are only 3 sites which play the "Mafia" or such like games and having been in the loop on setting up this one and one of the other 2, I feel I I have rough idea on who is who.
So why are you defending The Fonz so? Could it be that he reffered to you understanding his comments about the "FOS" stuff or could it have more sustenance?

[superstring91]

im not defending him at all.
im calling you out on attacking him for provoking discussion. like i said in my last post, the game would stall otherwise.

also: the wiki had a list of scumtells at one point. he may have read it.

[The Fonz]

I don't want to repeat what SS said, as he largely had it, but:

The Fonz wrote

But we had nothing to go on at that point. Nothing.

Exactly my point, so why start a band wagon at this point?

Because if we don't do anything to provoke reactions, we'll never find scum?

Overreacting to harmless votes is just a classic scumtell. Classic.

Firstly, I think you are the one that is making a big thing of this. My comments were not over reacting at all, I was merely pointing out the obvious.
And secondly, What would you know about

Classic scumtells

?
Correct me if I'm wrong but you have only been playing for a couple of weeks and being privy to all members lists and their IP addresses, I can see that you havn't been a player before that date under a different name, so I ask again, are you really experienced enough to make such a statement?

You have no idea where else I might have played, or how many games I've read. If you're a vet, you oughta know there's plenty of vets who subscribe to the same theory.

then what are you basing your FOS on?

I'm basing my FOS on your defensivness which is quite outstanding considering the stage at which this game is at and the comments of mine for which you are reffering to.
Let me elaborate on your last staement by Quoting the entire sentence, which I think sums my point up exactly.....

I don't mean your FOS on me there. That makes perfect sense either way, since you have to defend yourself. (Though my 'outstanding defensiveness?' Pot, kettle...) I mean, if no-one ever gets a random wagon rolling, then on what on earth does anyone have to base the FOS you are advocating as an alternative to my vote?

To return to your initial, suspect comment:

You two so need an

FOS

to either expose your complete indiscretion or foolishness at putting someone that may be town at such a risk!

What risk? There is no risk in putting someone at lynch -4. You're not going to get four scum (if there are even that many) bandwagonning, and should it actually get to the stage someone puts the -2 or -1 vote on the basically random bandwagon, a) you can unvote and b)you've got blatant scum.

[Dasquian]

I'm not liking Dodgy's move to discredit The Fonz's provenance as a mafia player; I have no idea what the level of veterancy of everyone in this game is, but Fonz seems to be making reasoned arguments I can get behind, and calling him out on his inexperience seems to be a cop-out even if it could be backed up.

I have no idea how many sites on the internet run mafia games, but I'm pretty sure the one I've played the bulk of my games on isn't on Dodgy's list of 3 (though I'm certain I've played an order of magnitude fewer games than most scummers) either.


Anyway,

unvote, vote: Dodgy

. It was only mildly questionable when he objected to the L-3 vote, but now he just seems to have become more rattled by Fonz and SS's responses (which have seemed entirely rational and sensible to me) than I'd have expected.

[Dodgy]

I'm not rattled at all. I agree that discussion has to take place and this certainly got it going but I think some people are taking my comments rather more seriously than they need to be taken.
@ Dasquian, I'm guessing your voting me because you think I'm scum? Well just for the record, I'm not.
As for my

move to discredit The Fonz's provenance as a mafia player

I was under no circumstances trying to discredit him as a player in any way, just merely asking if his "Classic scumtell" comment could be justified with only a couple of weeks under his belt on this site.
Anyway, I have said my bit and discussion has started. Keep your votes on me if you like but I will have the last laugh.

[Dasquian]

Well

that's

rather ominous

Voting you because of scumminess, with usual Day 1 disclaimers of random stabs in the dark.

[The Fonz]

[quote="Dodgy"]
@ Dasquian, I'm guessing your voting me because you think I'm scum? Well just for the record, I'm not.

[quote]

Claiming 'not-scum' is another common scumtell.

[Dodgy]

Quit it with your Scumtells and just play the game mate!
Youre forgetting one other reason why someone claims Town, because they are Town! LOL

[Dodgy]

There is a VERY good chance that we have 3 Scum in this game and my guess is that you've all be outed in day 1.
I think the 3 scum are The Fonz, Dasquian and superstring91.
All 3 of you know that I'm not scum and thats why you are all going in for the kill and to get people onside.
If however you do manage this, please town, remember the mob!
As for your scumtells The Fonz, I hope for your sake you are scum because if by small chance that youre not, youre very bad at reading this game.

[Dasquian]

I can empathise with the level of paranoia you're now exhibiting, and I would say that's actually a town-tell if anything, or a conscientious act.

If you're town, calm down, take a step back. The mafia are

not

all going in for the kill, nor would it make much sense for us to do so if you were right about us, unless we were going for one of those "so obvious you have to discount it" mafia plays.

I'm voting you because you're the most scummy

on page 3 of day 1

. There are a lot of players who I've yet to get a read on and I'm not forgetting them!

[Southpaw]

There is a VERY good chance that we have 3 Scum in this game and my guess is that you've all be outed in day 1.
I think the 3 scum are The Fonz, Dasquian and superstring91.
All 3 of you know that I'm not scum and thats why you are all going in for the kill and to get people onside.

I think it's unlikely that all of the mafia would start working together so early in the game. From my past experiences, mafia typically just ignore each other for the first day to prevent any connections from being made.

[Thestatusquo]

Vote count. Sorry about not getting it at the top of the page, guys.

Southpaw: 2

(thorgot, superstring)

Dodgy: 2

(the fonz dasquain)

gorckat:1

(eletriar)

pete d: 1

(kilmentator)

[Dodgy]

Thats very true most of the time Southpaw but when everyone starts to presume such a thing is when the dinamics of the game can change and scum can do the most obvious things and people just say, nah, thats far too obvious.
Thats the fun of the game, you never know who is telling the truth or not, not for sure anyway.

[Dodgy]

Now how about we hear from some of those peeps that just arn't posting.

[The Fonz]

Quit it with your Scumtells and just play the game mate!
Youre forgetting one other reason why someone claims Town, because they are Town! LOL

Yaaawn. It makes no sense for anyone to claim scum. Therefore, claiming town is just pointless time-wasting. We can't take your word for it. You're apparently a longtime vet, yet you're playing incredibly newbishly. That said, I don't think attacking you further is going to yield much more info right now. You'd have to do summat VERY pro-town to change my opinion.

one of those "so obvious you have to discount it" mafia plays.

I'm voting you because you're the most scummy

on page 3 of day 1

. There are a lot of players who I've yet to get a read on and I'm not forgetting them!

Well said. For starters, I want to know whether thorgot thinks the bandwagon was a good idea or not. Simple enough question, and I think an answer is due. 'It was random' isn't an excuse. Everytime something significant happens with a bandwagon, you have to decide anew if it's still worth supporting.

[thorgot]

I think the bandwagon was an excellent idea, in order to create some discussion about players. Which it did, including about myself.

Sorry I haven't been more active. I had lots of work this week, but I should be able to post more this week.

[superstring91]

Quit it with your Scumtells and just play the game mate!

i have to agree. i dont think pointing out scumtells is a great idea right now keep those ideas to yourself, and maybe analyze them later.

There is a VERY good chance that we have 3 Scum in this game and my guess is that you've all be outed in day 1.
I think the 3 scum are The Fonz, Dasquian and superstring91.
All 3 of you know that I'm not scum and thats why you are all going in for the kill and to get people onside.
If however you do manage this, please town, remember the mob!
As for your scumtells The Fonz, I hope for your sake you are scum because if by small chance that youre not, youre very bad at reading this game.

the only reason you think the 3 of us are scum is because we agree with each other and not you.
i dont like that one bit

I can empathise with the level of paranoia you're now exhibiting, and I would say that's actually a town-tell if anything, or a conscientious act.

If you're town, calm down, take a step back. The mafia are

not

all going in for the kill, nor would it make much sense for us to do so if you were right about us, unless we were going for one of those "so obvious you have to discount it" mafia plays.

QFT

You're apparently a longtime vet, yet you're playing incredibly newbishly.

i half agree with this. i will wait to see more of your posts through the game to actually judge you on it though.
i also dont like you trying to attack fonz for lack of experience. even though you said that you werent trying to discredit him, it came off like you were.

[Sweenytodd]

And secondly, What would you know about Classic scumtells?
Correct me if I'm wrong but you have only been playing for a couple of weeks and being privy to all members lists and their IP addresses, I can see that you havn't been a player before that date under a different name, so I ask again, are you really experienced enough to make such a statement?

On this point, I can only speak for my own experience which is very limited. I am new to this site and to this game in general, so if you'd like to direct comments on noobishness feel free to direct them to me. From the games that I have read on this site, the "classic scumtells" seem far from reliable. A person is scummy who acts too much like town or too little, a person who posts too much or not enough is considered scummy. I'm sure that there are real scumtells certain players exude but those are probably individual matters of meta-gaming. The most effective way of routing the scum seems to be creating discussion (which granted, this bandwagon has done) and examine the logic and the arguments put forward by individuals. That being said, the largest concern I have at the moment is with the discussion being primarily among 4-6 players with the majority of the members flying under the radar. I would recommend that instead of a post such as this,

I think the bandwagon was an excellent idea, in order to create some discussion about players. Which it did, including about myself.

Sorry I haven't been more active. I had lots of work this week, but I should be able to post more this week.

do not help us find scum. I realize that everyone had times when they cannot participate as much, this I will not hold against you. The issue that I have is posting 2 sentences agreeing with an idea rather than providing content does nothing but keeping your name outside of the "lurker" discussion. Everyone needs to participate, and I realize it has been a couple days since my last contribution which is why I am attempting to do my part to contribute now that I have some time. Please, to facilitate discussion, feel free to pose any questions to me which you feel need answering. Please, if you haven't posted in a couple days take the time to provide us some content to continue evaluating that we can weed out the scum presence in this town.