Mini 1404 - Monopoly Mafia - Game Over

[Mehdi2277]

How does knowing he didn't target anyone help you in figuring out what his second card is?

[Mehdi2277]

And why did you not reveal the result after the rest of the day's claims were essentially all made?

[Mehdi2277]

Safety 1950 was in relation to 1787. The point was how he gained knowledge on his role from the not tracking not what the role is.

His break of plan can be split amongst the neighborhood since they've said they agreed on it together.

[Mehdi2277]

Yeah smartness isn't relevant. The point is he asked so it can't be blamed simply on him so either the neighborhood as a whole did it for scum motivation (which we don't have 3 scum) or it wasn't scum motivated.

[Mehdi2277]

It's about the worst thing to fake claim unless xis is just the type to bet on I'll wifom the town with horrible power usage. So yeah I'm taking it as a town tell under that logic.

Mhork it's pretty clear the point of me calling myself scum is to try to show the reason not working well since I was expecting cheery to be redirected then which would make the 1 strange result from n1 have a fairly understandable explanation and kill one annoying fos reason on me.

[Mehdi2277]

Admittingly I'm less confident on cheery being town but I'm still at a point where I'd like guille most as a lynch (and if cheery is scum why protect basically his whole neighborhood unless one of them is scum too?).

[Mehdi2277]

I realize that reasoning works for guille to but specifically mhork isn't really lynchable because of the tracker report (if he's scum then there's at least 1 scum not him with him and it'd also imply he's the most town looking scum) and then continued guille is town push vs guille just having both as town. That and honestly my town read on him from day 2 isn't really dying easily.

[Mehdi2277]

Isn't it the same as me asking cheery whether he wanted to have the lynch on lurker now or later? Or really just the fact the lurker lynch took awhile was to help the replacements and it wasn't purely a xis thing (it was also part a un thing which beyond the caught scum thing is also known town).

Xis what did you think the day 1 argument on watcher isn't town and is null was about then?

[Mehdi2277]

And while not asked to me town/scum/weak town.

[Mehdi2277]

It's really null since if things get speculative I'll naturally be willing to argue them that way.

And really the contradiction boils down to a. xis you didn't complain about it and b. it was very obvious sarcasm to most of the game. Being snarky is a personality tell not a scum tell.

[Mehdi2277]

Guille you realize it's impossible for me to be scum with mhork because of roles? (for me to be scum with him then cheery or safety has to be scum which would make 4 mafia + 1 sk in a 13 player game and would make this mylo and I'll go with the easy 5 scum isn't going to occur in this game) You're logic basically says I've run out of people to be scum with except cheery (I see at the end you seem to consider me + jake when you earlier said we can't be scum together so not sure how those two work).

In fact here:

Seriously now, I am not voting Jake because I find Medhi scummy. And today's event has me thinking that Jake and Medhi cannot be scum together.

This means that, from my point of view, it's Medhi and Jake.

[Mehdi2277]

How is that reasoning to vote me?

[Mehdi2277]

So what does the stuff before that mean? A power affecting my cards implies my power was stopped or something so without the track part from yesterday what is the read from?

[Mehdi2277]

The one time I've lied about an action target as scum was when it was an obv scum target (shooting epic in mafiastuck). The rest I've never lied on in any game in my memory. So I start to do so now?

And I'm referring to the end part more that said which also effects your cards.

[Mehdi2277]

If I'm a ninja then I'm basically lying about my target if it effects chance cards. The point of the last post was to say I've only once said something that'd contradict a tracker/watcher's report in any of my games here as scum.

[Mehdi2277]

Your response you'd expect from me as either alignment to the end?

I'd not be doing it since out of however many scum games I've done by now here it's been done just once (I think about 9 scum games). Thinking about it I did lie as a jester as well but for the most part bad memories with cops makes me avoid lying about role stuff as either alignment.

[Mehdi2277]

Ninja scum basically makes 4 prs useless until it dies for sensing a kill (and beyond the kill in a game with powers randomized trackers/watchers aren't likely to see much else incriminating).

[Mehdi2277]

For watcher, and tracker, it's an observation result, not interaction~

There's your answer cheery.

[Mehdi2277]

Jake has your cheery scum read fallen (otherwise why follow him on me?) Going a different route who do you think is town right now?

[Mehdi2277]

Going a different route who do you think is town right now?

Second question is independent of the first (related, but main thing is both answered would help a bit).

And the other thing is if cheery is scum how do I work with him at all? Let's see day 2 he claimed something to kill any chances of me saying safety was RB and pretty much helped in the tracker stuff and has seriously voted me I think day 2 and now. The point of this is mainly re-thinking reads (I'm staying with I don't think cheery is very likely scum and based on poe would desire to lynch guille).

[Mehdi2277]

Safety good luck quoting much I've done that you've pushed the lynch not connected to a. roles or b. deaths.

[Mehdi2277]

Basically I want you to have a read on me for what I've posted. In all of that last post and quite a few others what I've said in thread isn't mentioned much or at all. 400 posts should be plenty to get an actual read on me and not over rely on roles where it's if I flip town then we know we're in lylo for following one result (+ two scum kills). The other result assuming you trust cheery shows me and mhork didn't kill tbg but minimal spec on who killed tbg. There aren't that many people alive in this game to do it.

P-edit: There's no way guille is town and I'm the better lynch? And jal is clear by xis (plus she's a vig with the vig cc dead as scum sk).

[Mehdi2277]

There's the obvious problem that not planning night actions when there's 2 trackers and two watchers is a really bad idea. When night starts there will be seven people alive. With watchers on trackers and cop (by way of watcher a randomly privately picking to watcher either a tracker or cop) the trackers and cop can live and with the trackers and vig all on different people and the cop on another person 4 people can be checked at the same time. You can essentially clear 3 people of doing the night 3 night kill at once if done properly.

[Mehdi2277]

Read the post two before mine for context Xis. P-edit pretty much implies it's in reference to something near that post.

[Mehdi2277]

There's no way guille is town and I'm the better lynch? And jal is clear by xis (plus she's a vig with the vig cc dead as scum sk).

Here's what xis is referring to which I said to you jake.

[Mehdi2277]

Shoot, cop, track, protect both the trackers and cop by watchers. 5/8 of the players can be removed or cleared (assuming the tracker/cop isn't lying). With the amount of power there is the game is better to just use every pr and make sure none of the trackers, cop, and vig target the same person. Watchers (safety and jake) privately pick between the vig and two trackers for who to watch. That means scum shooting any tracker/vig has about 2/3 chance of being caught and should keep the trackers and vig alive. I'll make a table as we move closer to a lynch.

[Mehdi2277]

Move closer naturally works more for a lynch not me (my preference should be clear by now). If it is me I'd still desire to write the table and plan out night actions for next night.

[Mehdi2277]

I've had two orange cards all game. Only power I've had from deeds is 50 percent self watcher (1 shot doc was a chance/chest card).

[Mehdi2277]

I think the fact we need to argue I'm a ninja so that my lack of action on n1 can fit the I must be scum for contradictory report is a problem in itself. Nice lack of response to the heart of 2041.

[Mehdi2277]

I say if I'm lynched then my town flip is enough to say whatever I say for the table goes. If I live then it's arguable.

And it's because I can never remember whether it's a chance/chest card without checking my pms.

[Mehdi2277]

Player	Role Power	Target
Safety	Watcher	Cheery
Jake	Watcher	Safety
Safety	Tracker	Xis
Cheery	Tracker	Mhork
Xis	Cop	Cheery
Jal	Vigilante	guille

I can modify it depending on who's lynched but here's a base for my current idea.

[Mehdi2277]

Oh forgot something.

Player	Role Power	Target
Safety	Watcher	Cheery/Xis
Jake	Watcher	Safety/Xis

That's better for the watcher targets.

[Mehdi2277]

Mod: I'll be on V/LA starting tomorrow until Saturday night.

[Mehdi2277]

I don't think there's any point in me tracking the same person again?

Mhork is only cleared from doing last night's kill and considering 4 players can be checked it's more of a question of who I don't think should be checked. To me safety, jake, and jal are the people I think are the most likely to be town which means the other should be checked with night actions. If we were to lynch from those 4 then I'd have safety be tracked since jal > jake > safety in town read.

@Mehdi

: You're voting him, one presumes you'd like him lynched. I'd like to hear a reasonable explanation as to why, because I strongly disagree.

Also, I think this makes more sense as a cop pool: {Cheery Dog, SafetyDance, Lord Mhork}

Considering safety actions day 2 I think he'd be a pretty bad target. Mhork I wouldn't be against and cheery associations with safety considering I think safety is town along with the way he's treated his neighborhood and how he replaced in and just came in directly make me still think he's town.

And the reason is simple. Primarily PoE. There's 7 people for me to look at. Safety/jal/jake I think are pretty town. That leaves mhork/xis/cheery/guille. I just gave some reason for cheery town. Mhork's actions towards lurker day 1 helps him a bit. There's no reason for you to claim cop. The person left at the bottom is guille. In fact look at guille's reaction to my plan (ignoring the fact he's naturally going to dislike the part on me shooting him). I did try to make the tracks/cop work like a triangle and beyond that for the outlier problem to apply jal/jake/safety have to be scum.

I've broken a game to the point town had a 100 percent chance of winning in one case and I think 80 percent chance in the other case he was with me then (detective mafia). I've helped break another and he was with me then (marketplace mafia). And he seriously wants to make a counter plan even if I flip town when by now he should know I understand set ups well?

He bothers to make a mehdi scum flip thing when I said that only applies if I flip town to have more to attack on it (and somehow the plan works better if I flip scum according to him when as scum I'd make sure to take advantage of what I can do). No watcher should have free realm. That leaves it more to luck and I'm not trying to catch scum with watchers. I'm trying to preserve the most results since I know how many results can destroy a scum team. And again I've shown in the past I know set ups well as town.

I'll finish catching up in a bit but I still prioritize guille > mhork (yes I've glanced at this page to see him vote me and while I can see him as scum for a while I've stuck with guille and still believe that).

[Mehdi2277]

Tennessee and New York avenue are the names of the oranges I have.

And safety do you really want to follow lynch all liars that hard? I know I've said this before but yes it applies. Read me for what I've said. I think I've said plenty and that reading me from what I've said and done is doable. Or am I really a null read without the role stuff? No idea should be blindly followed.

Anyways scum wise currently I'm at guille > xis > mhork (I chose to put mhork above xis mainly for actually pushing lurker after the claim). If we don't have someone scum flip today then thinking on it I don't want xis checking guille or mhork.

[Mehdi2277]

Jake if you help me on guille that would be 3 votes done at once. Add two and that finishes it properly. Or think on what I said this page + what you said to guille last page.

[Mehdi2277]

Mhork you realize for a night action plan to be written then I have to have reads. Do you think I wanted guille shot because I think he's town? I've made my reads pretty clear pretty repeatedly. My votes have been pretty easy to see since the start of the game. I've argued pretty directly with people multiple times.

[Mehdi2277]

I'm against it simply because my goal isn't for watchers to catch scum but keep the trackers alive. Trackers that don't die can actually clear someone from doing the kill which if we lynch scum today clears someone as town while watchers not on the person who dies isn't likely to help much. If we lynch scum and a pr says they have a result that clears someone then that person is fully clear (if the pr is scum that'd make them the last scum so the innocence aspect would remain true). Clear 3 people for tomorrow. Have 1 die by vig, another by lynch, and another by mafia night kill. 5 people alive tomorrow with the potential to have 4 clear which would be a guaranteed win (since jal would be fully clear is someone non xis flips scum and 3 clears with 5 alive is enough to win). Thinking on it lynching scum today plus a plan should guarantee a win although I've changed my mind on one thing. The clears should be alive too so I want it to be more like safety targets cheery, cheery targets xis, and xis targets safety with all 3 being potential watcher targets for the 3 potential clears with jal for tomorrow.

And guille I'm referring to how you wanted to make a counter plan if I flip town. So as the person who helps break two games with you as town you don't just trust the plan. I'm ok with you trying to make a counter plan if I flip scum just find it scummy that you'd bother to discuss one for if I flip town (and somehow it needs more changes if I'm town then scum likely because you know I'm town and just want to find a way to modify it without being obvious and to weaken what it can do).

And VOTE: mhork. Mostly because he's similarly near the bottom and I can only lynch guille with other votes so joining with jake helps.

[Mehdi2277]

Player	Power	Target
Jake	Watcher	Safety/Xis
Safety	Watcher	Cheery/Xis
Safety	Tracker	Cheery
Cheery	Tracker	Xis
Xis	Cop	Safety
Jal	Vig	guille

Swap guille with mhork for vig target if we lynch guille. That'd be my current idea. Mainly maximize clears for tomorrow and if just 3 clears are alive tomorrow when there'll be 5 players then the game is a guaranteed win (the problem being it'd have to be fully clear which having one scum be lynched today makes easy to do, but without isn't as simple).

[Mehdi2277]

It's what I do. It's also got me nominated for a scummy so it has worked pretty well (and that's part of what the guille argument is on the desire to fix my plan if I flip town when he has experience with me breaking games).

[Mehdi2277]

---

Current role list.

Mehdi2277 - Gunsmith
Primate - Tracker
Coron – Day Coroner
OS – Day Coroner
guille2015 - Voyeur
IceGuy - Tracker
Robocopter87 - Voyeur
Syndromeofadown - Tracker

Now here's a list of potential scum if quadz isn't the driver:

Primate - Tracker
OS – Day Coroner
IceGuy - Tracker
Robocopter87 - Voyeur
Syndromeofadown - Tracker

Primate follows ice.
Ice follows OS.
Syndrome follows robo.
Robo targets syndrome.
I target syndrome.

Now cases based on death.

I. I die. Lynch primate to confirm without a doubt bus driver exists. If he flips town then ice can clear OS, syndrome can clear robo, primate can have cleared ice. If ice, os, and robo are cleared then syndrome is scum. If one of the reports incriminates another player lynch the person who has the guilty report on them followed by the reporter for autowin.

II. Robo/primate/OS/Ice dies. I can clear or confirm syndrome as scum. If I clear syndrome that leaves 3 potential scum with 3 lynches leftover. Just kill all three (and reports can clear more which could find the scum then).

III. Coron dies. Primate can clear ice, ice can clear os, syndrome can clear robo, I can clear syndrome. This would clear ice, os, syndrome, and robo with me and guille already confirmed. That means primate is scum. If one of the reports incriminates another player lynch the person who has the guilty report on them followed by the reporter for autowin.

IV. Guille dies. Primate can clear ice, ice can clear os, syndrome can clear robo, I can clear syndrome. This would clear ice, os, syndrome, and robo with me and coron already confirmed. That means primate is scum. If one of the reports incriminates another player lynch the person who has the guilty report on them followed by the reporter for autowin.

V. Syndrome dies. Primate can clear ice, ice can clear OS. Lynch primate. If primate is town then the people cleared would be ice, os, me, guille, and coron. That would leave robo for scum. Lynch him for the win. If one of the reports incriminates another player lynch the person who has the guilty report on them followed by the reporter for autowin.

---

This being the much more simplified plan for quadz non driver.

That's one of the two main plans (technically this one also had some other stuff in it for quadz driver in that thread. Marketplace mafia's main plan wasn't my plan as much as something I helped in (the bois which was kanye and matt would get the most credit for it and I had a tendency to make the tables for auction stuff) although I can quote several a few other tables of player coordination in buying powers and using them that I wrote if you'd like other stuff.

[Mehdi2277]

There's also the doc fake claim plan in dirty dealing mafia (that one isn't found in the thread, but instead in the google document I link to at the end of the game that was me and OS's hydra qt).

[Mehdi2277]

It's primarily made assuming we lynch scum today. Let's say there's 1 scum alive and he gives a clear on someone. Well it'd be true since he's the scum and not the person he said it on. And town reports would be true too. So one of the trackers could be scum and things work out just fine as long as one scum is lynched today (if we mislynch I still think that's one of the better plans you can make but it stops being as ideal as now).

[Mehdi2277]

I don't think I've even bothered to shoot people for suspecting me in any of my games (tbg I'd have honestly shot but simply because I thought he was obvtown) as scum.

And your numberQ read is about 2-3 posts long in a game this size.

[Mehdi2277]

It still weakens when it's that small relative to game amount.

My town reads wouldn't really change if he flipped town (and redirecting it to you do you think anyone looks more likely scum if he flips town associatively?). The simple list of my reads at this moment is:

jal > jake > safety > cheery > xis > mhork > guille (yeah mhork's last few comments has made him below you like the plan outcry and a very vague call of me erratic without much explanation on how it's true)

[Mehdi2277]

Mhork to me has one calling card (lurker push) and beyond that a fairly weak game throughout, the inconsistency on making plans, and going with the erratic which just felt like a way to fos me without really attacking me more directly.

Guille trumps for me but at the moment I'm content with mhork too.

[Mehdi2277]

You won't be with me. I've said most what I need for my reads and opinions to be clear. If this is slot is lynched then my flip should be enough to say follow my plan with past plan success being what backs it. The only modification I'd make is swap xis with jal in jake's targets (so jake target safety or jal) because of jal's new claim.

And biting some pride back and saying sorry both to the players and mod,

I'd like to replace out.

The reason boils down to school over load for likely a while.

[Mehdi2277]

Xis why did you not claim the purple card day 3?

Anyways guille that can be reversed onto me more so considering how I much I tried to get you killed.

[Mehdi2277]

• Xisiqomelir - Ventor Avenue (Yellow), Marvin Gardens (Yellow), Virginia Ave (Purple)

That first appeared under night 2. Day 3 is when people wanted the purple card claim but you didn't claim it til day 4 when jal found out you had it.