Mini #893 - Dollhouse Mafia (Game Over!)

[DeathNote]

The flaw of your plan is that scum would never be stupid enough to use a kill ability if they were the only ones imprinted that day.

[iamausername]

-=Vote Count #1=-

Montana (1) - Alaska
Nevada (1) - Virginia

Not Voting (10) - Arizona, Colorado, Florida, Georgia, Hawaii, Iowa, Kansas, Montana, Nevada, Ohio

7 to lynch.

-=Imprint Count #1=-

Alaska (2) - Alaska, Nevada
Virginia (2) - Alaska, Nevada
Arizona (1) - Nevada
Colorado (1) - Nevada
Florida (1) - Nevada
Georgia (1) - Nevada
Hawaii (1) - Nevada
Iowa (1) - Nevada
Kansas (1) - Nevada
Montana (1) - Nevada
Nevada (1) - Nevada
Ohio (1) - Nevada

7 to imprint.

[Pug89]

I'm definitely for being conservative in regards to imprinting. The imprint everybody plan would certainly result in an exciting night, but there is no way to tell how that would turn out. We don't know what powers will be given (except possibly a killing power) and this early in the game determining who is scum can be difficult. On the other hand, imprinting everyone would give us a lot to go on the next day, but if scum get a killing role they can continue to use it because the potential pool of players to be imprinted with it will be everyone. With Limerickx's plan, or even imprinting a few people as opposed to just one, a night kill doesn't seem likely to me early in the game since it will automatically bring suspicion onto the everyone who has been imprinted.

[Messiah]

I don't think the point of his plan was to catch scum that way.

FWIW, I rather like Limerick's plan.

[Vala Mal Doran]

Why hello there.

@DN: Let's say we go with imprinting everyone. How many townies do you think need to be confirmed in the night for it to be worth giving scum powers indefinitely? I don't think confirming one townie is worth it at all.

[DeathNote]

I understand Limerick's plan and fully willing to try it out, however... his plan is essentially the same as not imprinting at all. What we are counting on is that we picked a town player to imprint and hope that he gets an investigative role and then uses that one shot cop to find scum. The odds are, needless to say, incredibly slim.

[DeathNote]

A confirmed townie means a confirmed person that we can imprint.

[Limerickx]

But not just an investigative role. It would also help to get information about how the game is set up. What goes on 'behind the scenes.'

There are obviously things we dont know in regards to what sort of roles will be given out. This is just a way to gain information, what possible roles can be given out?

Its just a thought, and there are downsides, we could, of course, give scum a power on accident, but the plus is that the longer we keep a handle on who were given powers, and what powers they were, the easier it will be to narrow down possibilities when a kill is made, and keeping things clear and organized would be a huge bonus to townies in catching scum in lies.

[Pug89]

@DN: Let's say we go with imprinting everyone. How many townies do you think need to be confirmed in the night for it to be worth giving scum powers indefinitely? I don't think confirming one townie is worth it at all.

I agree, and if scum do manage to get a killing ability the confirmed player is likely to be killed the next night.

[DeathNote]

Whatever route we choose, the outcome is unpredictable in this game. If we go Limerickx's route then we are playing the safe game and what we are hoping for is a cop for town. If we do happen to target a scum player then the only way that could hurt us is if he gets a killing power. Even then, he will be unable to use it until a few days after he gains it or else we will know who it was.

[Vala Mal Doran]

A confirmed townie means a confirmed person that we can imprint.

I take it this is your answer to my question? <_<

[TheButtonmen]

If the scum don't have a NK until we give one to them I don't think we can hand out powers democraticly. My reasoning is this fully 33% of the game is scum, thus any vote we do to determine who gets imprinted is largely in their favour due to having a 4 person voting block. So if / when we are handing out powers I think it needs to be done via dice roll for at least the first day or two.

[Limerickx]

I'd be down for a dice roll to determine imprints.

[Vala Mal Doran]

How is a dice roll any better? If people vote for an imprint, that's information and discussion we get out of it. If people vote to imprint someone who's later found out as scum, we can take a closer look at the people in favour of imprinting that person, which is essentially a gold mine of information we would not have if we determined an imprint by dice roll.

[DeathNote]

A confirmed townie means a confirmed person that we can imprint.

I take it this is your answer to my question? <_<

yes.

I think dice roll could work.

[Vala Mal Doran]

A confirmed townie means a confirmed person that we can imprint.

I take it this is your answer to my question? <_<

yes.

That's not much of an answer then, you know. I asked how many confirmed townies do you think it would take for it to be worth permanently imprinting all scum.

[Messiah]

Dice roll is a terrible idea for exactly the same reasons that VMD(Is that an acceptable abbreviation of your name, btw?) stated.

DN, why haven't you removed your imprint votes yet?

[TheButtonmen]

How is a dice roll any better? If people vote for an imprint, that's information and discussion we get out of it. If people vote to imprint someone who's later found out as scum, we can take a closer look at the people in favour of imprinting that person, which is essentially a gold mine of information we would not have if we determined an imprint by dice roll.

Problem with that is the town-scum ratio, with 8-4 if we mislynch today then give the scum a NK we start day two with 6 town and 4 scum. Now the problem with imprinting everyone is that the we don't know which people to lynch is people start dying as we don't have enough spare towns people to last the days it would take to lynch until we found the scum with the NK ability.

Basically theres a whole lot a scum and not that many town, thus voting is tilted in scum favour, so by randomizing we remove that. Now if we randomly chose a player day 1 and repeatedly imprint them and vote NL until they find scum we have a 66% of winning right now and honestly with a 2-1 town to scum ratio that's a hell of a lot better win % then playing the game straight up.

[Limerickx]

VMD makes a good point, which in hindsight makes perfect sense.
While I don't think the dice roll is as terrible an idea as Messiah thinks, I agree that dice rolling would take away a lot of information, which is kinda the entire point.

Problem with that is the town-scum ratio, with 8-4 if we mislynch today then give the scum a NK we start day two with 6 town and 4 scum.

The scum wouldn't use the NK even if they got it, they'd just be lynched the next day as a result. Also, it would be vote to implant, then vote to no-lynch. If we gave a NK to a scum during the night, they'd never use it, they'd just get lynched the next day. That would be stupid.

Basically theres a whole lot a scum and not that many town, thus voting is tilted in scum favour, so by randomizing we remove that. Now if we randomly chose a player day 1 and repeatedly imprint them and vote NL until they find scum we have a 66% of winning right now and honestly with a 2-1 town to scum ratio that's a hell of a lot better win % then playing the game straight up.

That assumes you know what the possible powers are. I don't recall it being mentioned anywhere what the possible imprints are.

I can see the arguement for both sides of a diceroll/vote, and its a matter of risk/reward. By voting, you get the risk of mafia working together to get the vote on them, but the reward of more information.
Dice roll you reduce the risk of picking a mafia, but reduce the information gained as a reward as a result. At the moment, I'd be more in favor of a vote, but I can see the merit of the dice-roll.

[elvis_knits]

Up until I learned that scum can not night kill, I was still for my plan.

@Those that apposed my idea-
I addressed the fact that scum gets power roles as well and know that they can keep them, however, trying to dodge giving them a power is going to be really difficult. With my idea, at least we know more town people have powers for tonight then scum. We won't be able to mass imprint any other day cause each scum having two powers would be insane, but hopefully we wouldn't have too. Night 1 results should confirm at least

one

town and we can just give that person(s) imprints from then on.

This is a really bad plan. If scum get atleast one kill power the first night, they can use it pretty much undetected and continue for the rest of the game.

On N1, when everyone has a power, it's going to yield a town of complicated interractions which is going to be hard to sort out. We might be able to catch the kill, we might not.

And then, you want to confirm one person and have them be the designated power role for the rest of that game? First of all, how are you going to confirm them? You're hoping someone gets cop? What if the person who claims cop is faking scum who "confirms" a buddy, or what if the cop is insane?

And second, it does not seem like good odds to have one town power role against a four-man scum team where every player has a power! You're totally putting the scumteam on steroids, and then giving the town the least power possible.

[elvis_knits]

Limerick's plan is good, except...

DICE ROLL IS CRAP!

We need to play this game like normal and decide who we think is scum, lynch them, and in the process, decide who we think is town, and vote for the imprint based on that.

Dice roll gives little info to us. We need to ELECT people to be imprinted based on who we think is town. Then we will have a record of who voted for whom to be imprinted. We can look at why they voted for a person to be imprinted and such. That way, we can see more easily who is connected to whom. Let's say that at some point we find out somebody is scum. And that person had been elected to be imprinted. Well then we can look who voted to imprint that person and why. It is another important tool we can use to scum hunt.

Dice roll will tell us nothing.

For instance, if deathnote rolled the imprint, I would certainly NOT be okay with it. Not only do I not want him getting a power, I would think it sucks that his buddies didn't even have to vote for him to get it. I want scum to have to work hard to get their powers, not win it in a lottery.

We need to ELECT, not dice roll.

[elvis_knits]

How is a dice roll any better? If people vote for an imprint, that's information and discussion we get out of it. If people vote to imprint someone who's later found out as scum, we can take a closer look at the people in favour of imprinting that person, which is essentially a gold mine of information we would not have if we determined an imprint by dice roll.

I see VMD had the same thought.

^5

[elvis_knits]

So far, Deathnote and The Buttonmen are scum.

Just saying.

[elvis_knits]

Basically theres a whole lot a scum and not that many town, thus voting is tilted in scum favour, so by randomizing we remove that. Now if we randomly chose a player day 1 and repeatedly imprint them and vote NL until they find scum we have a 66% of winning right now and honestly with a 2-1 town to scum ratio that's a hell of a lot better win % then playing the game straight up.

This is wrong. And scummy.

There are 4 scum and 8 town. You're making it sound like town is in the minority. We are twice as strong at the scum right now.

[TheButtonmen]

This is wrong. And scummy.

There are 4 scum and 8 town. You're making it sound like town is in the minority. We are twice as strong at the scum right now.

No we aren't, they have a 4 man group that can vote in concert, we have 8 individuals. 4 man informed minority votes much stronger then 8 uninformed majority.