The Manor: Chzo Mafia (Game Over!)

[Lamont_Cranston]

I don't like the Dramonic wagon at all.

Vote LIght Kun

[Lamont_Cranston]

you being for your lynch would be a problem.

Also, yes, Lamont is the bullet case. However, it's the shotgun that backfired, therefore I don't think he could have known (Though loading an 8-bore Shotgun with a 12 bore-bullet wasn,t the best thing, not that I know anything about guns)

Also, you are voting, what for? I'm not flailing, I simply admit the possibility of myself being wrong based on a previous claim, therefore I vote a player I have considered scummier throughout the game so far, even though you claimed not having the doll.

Also, saying you want the doll to survive is plain bad. It's like saying "hey guys, let's make sure the mind of John DeFoe machetes us all to death!"

I support and endorse the above product.

[Lamont_Cranston]

unvote

Actually no. I don't think rock could have grabbed it. So, I don't think the scum would want a SK alive.

This is flawed?? The doll aligns with the main evil faction in the game. However, I would refine it by saying that scum wouldn't be so in-your-face scummy??

Well I'd have to think about that for a bit. Seems right in line with what Rocka would say...

[Lamont_Cranston]

I'll admit that I totally missed last night and didn't protect anybody

@Pyro: No, I do not have the doll, but how do you come up with zwet, LK, and Siro as probably not having it?

Hmmm, I wonder if these two statements are somehow related...

[Lamont_Cranston]

Long term, the manor was rebuilt to be in the timeline for the last game as well.

Ewww, you see I only played the first one...

[Lamont_Cranston]

Cases agaisnt me (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong)

Stepho's: I voted Siro who made a seemlingly plausible vanilla claim (bad case and answered it)
L-K's: I'm supposedly flailing (bad case and answered it)
Populartajo: ... we need a new shiny wagon/ counterwagon? (no case *coughscumcough*)
ZazieR: Tajo parroting (no case *coughscumscough*)
Setael: I'm not lynching the town (bad case)


Why the hell is there a wagon on me without any remotely decent cases?

My read is your start in the game. You replaced in with some humm-dingers of weird scummy posts and everyone was ready to lynch you. But right after that you changed and have reversed yourself ever since. There was some other wagon that came in and distracted yours; I think you were at like L-2 or something...

[Lamont_Cranston]

I don't believe the assertion that scum don't want the doll holder around. The doll holder is aligned with scum (at least temporarily).

Similar to a evil-sdied politician.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Except I wouldn't be surprised here if the doll holder's NK could be controlled by the scum even.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Oh ya,

Unvote

Can you explain the reason why you unvoted?

Unvote; Vote: Light-Kun

Why L-K?

Both of these got ignored and I want to hear the answers.

Lamont

and

Zwet

, answer.

Ya I purposely ignored it because right after that I re-voted.

[Lamont_Cranston]

I'll admit that I totally missed last night and didn't protect anybody

@Pyro: No, I do not have the doll, but how do you come up with zwet, LK, and Siro as probably not having it?

Hmmm, I wonder if these two statements are somehow related...

I don''t get what you are saying here. Can you explain it?

I'm positing the theory that Amished might actually have the doll which is the

real

reason he didn't protect anyone. Also, notice how he phrases it in such a defensive way...

[Lamont_Cranston]

I don't believe the assertion that scum don't want the doll holder around.

The doll holder is aligned with scum (at least temporarily)

.

Similar to a evil-sdied politician.

Please elaborate on the bolded.

There was a period of time (if I'm correct) that Trilby was briefly taken over by the doll. Then after that the doll was used to summon John Defoe so they could kill him and burn the house down.

I forget what broke the spell actually; all I remember is how Trilby woke up wearing all the equipment and had murdered one of the people in the house.

I also forget how the doll was then used without it again taking someone over...

[Lamont_Cranston]

Claiming townie is NEVER a good thing. It very rarely stops a lynch because you can't counterclaim townie AND in case the lynch IS stopped, it helps the mafia target PRs since they don't have to worry about a VT

I support and endorse the above product.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Is claiming townie scummy or not? Please answer with a yes or a no.

It CAN be so the answer is yes.

[Lamont_Cranston]

I don't believe the assertion that scum don't want the doll holder around.

The doll holder is aligned with scum (at least temporarily)

.

Similar to a evil-sdied politician.

Please elaborate on the bolded.

There was a period of time (if I'm correct) that Trilby was briefly taken over by the doll. Then after that the doll was used to summon John Defoe so they could kill him and burn the house down.

I forget what broke the spell actually; all I remember is how Trilby woke up wearing all the equipment and had murdered one of the people in the house.

I also forget how the doll was then used without it again taking someone over...

If today you have the doll, please claim because based on the above, the town needs it to win and Trilby himself was not held responsible for the murder he commited while under its control.

[Lamont_Cranston]

It doesn't make sense that Amished has the doll unless he's scum. If he didn't protect last night the scum should also have gotten a kill.

QFT.

[Lamont_Cranston]

I'm voting him following my previous scum suspicions on Rock.

QFT.

[Lamont_Cranston]

LOL. Ya your posting sure has improved from when you first replaced in. I don't replace well either.

Btw, I am looking forward to Percy's contributions. Based on my previous game with him, he is a studious and responsible player.

[Lamont_Cranston]

The idea that Pyro is the top of the list is laughable. Neither me nor Dramonic should be on the list. Otherwise I agree with the list 100%.

[Lamont_Cranston]

I can see where an ISO of Zwet could yield much fruit towards a case.

[Lamont_Cranston]

I dont think if a townie has the doll they should give it to LK. The reason I'm considering is the fact that it will then be distributed randomly; which means scum might get it if they don't have it already.

I am still considering the doll to be a way for the town to win just like in the first game and that the SK effects are only temporary somehow (I forget how Trilby escapes its effects).

[Lamont_Cranston]

Because the shell was distributed randomly if dropped.

[Lamont_Cranston]

But I am also open to the theory that the doll is inherently bad but isnt it also an object that must be used to win?

[Lamont_Cranston]

Yes, but I mean once I had the shell the PM said that if it should be dropped it would be distributed randomly.

[Lamont_Cranston]

I want to be investigated. /wifom. (like this Zazie?)

In all seriousness, am I the only one that thinks that Lammont has the doll?

Lammont, why did you assume the doll worked like the matches and not like the shell?

Exactly what are you saying? I only said that the doll works like the shell and I said it because I am of the theory that the doll will be used as part of the town wincon. This theory is based on the first game where it was a part of the final scene where Trilby summons the boy to kill him.

[Lamont_Cranston]

I read it as zwet asking for opinions on having another no lynch (I think the "just saying" at the end reinforces this idea) but Im prob not the best source since english is not my first language.

Anyway, in more important news, I just checked Light profile and his last post in the site is in this game, two days ago, so

mod prod him, please.

Waiting for a plausible/non plausible claim before starting the "I give ma doll" operation.

LOL. Tajo always comes up with the best expressions.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Likely doll holders:
Lamont

This is a blatant attempt to confuse things. I need to see a better defense to overcome the terrible performance of your predecessor.

[Lamont_Cranston]

I'm not familiar with a jester flavor really. I can't think of anyone that would win by being killed.

But then again, I've only played the first two games...

[Lamont_Cranston]

Anyone that idiotically scummy TWICE IN A ROW has to be a jester. Or just really, really bad at the game.

LMAO. This post should get him to live 'till endgame.

[Lamont_Cranston]

I don't like how L-K is soft claiming power role.

What? I didn't see that... If he DID do that he needs to full-claim otherwise its the rope.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Because partial claiming a PR is a perfect place for scum to hide. You either claim nothing or full-claim. Partial claiming is not allowed.

[Lamont_Cranston]

I don't like how L-K is soft claiming power role.

What? I didn't see that... If he DID do that he needs to full-claim otherwise its the rope.

There is now reason for a vanilla townie not to claim. There are some slight disadvantages to VTs claiming, but not enough to not do it at L-1.

Actually a VT claim even at the rope is bad because it accomplishes nothing AND gives an unprovable place for scum to hide if for some reason they are not lynched while giving the scum a better chance of killing a town PR.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Give doll to LK

[Lamont_Cranston]

Ok in that case let me be more specific:

Give Doll to Light Kun

[Lamont_Cranston]

Ya her solid gold analysis the beginning of this day is the only thing holding me back from aggressively pursuing her.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Ya Percy specifically requested us to wait until tomorrow.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Lamontand Zwet, stop being jerks, and answer the questions.

This.


Quote Pyramide, until Lamont and Zwet have answered.

Look I think your question is extremely stupid. I've already explained that I re-voted right after my unvote and that's all I'm going to say.

[Lamont_Cranston]

I like the Percy catchup post except for two things that I think need clarification:

1) I didnt fuel the Light kun lynch with my doll plan. I was clear enough that the plan for the day was to give the doll to the lynch of the day, didnt matter which player. Its a fact that Rocka active lurked and I just dont find any protown motivation in Kun refusal to claim (when this could have been the only way to at least try to clear him) and in his vote, so what fueled Light lynch was this and not my plan.

2) Do you think Light kun refusal to claim is scummy? What about his plan and his vote for me?

Ya I'm basically supporting this. Rock gave me very bad vibes with his disruptive, anti-town posts and I'm not finding that LK has changed this feeling.

Also, on a separate note, my vote for Nyx was only a pressure vote to get him to come back and go through with the vigging before the deadline. He had shown some early indications of not wanting to do this that I attempted to clarify and then when he started to lurk I just did what the town has to do to get lurkers to stop.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Lamontand Zwet, stop being jerks, and answer the questions.

This.


Quote Pyramide, until Lamont and Zwet have answered.

Look I think your question is extremely stupid. I've already explained that I re-voted right after my unvote and that's all I'm going to say.

Btw, I support Percy's read on you (severe town PR het) although I would like his opinion on:

1) The chances of scum making the excellent NK analysis that you did at the beginning of this day

2) Your extreme PM rolefishing expedition

[Lamont_Cranston]

1. Populartajo is being voted by me for mostly omgus reasons.
2. Claiming is not the best play for me.
3. Dramonic, that' cute, but you stil haven't explain how my plan is flawed.
4. Percy, God bless you and your willingness to actually read the game.
5. In case I didn't make this perfectly clear, I'm not reading he entirety of the game. I am simpling entering, using the list of confirmed and cleareds and going from there. However, since the doll enters now, I would think it is obvious that whoever has the doll is potentially a serial killer now.

Therefore,

all

previous reads are pretty much invalid

.

There are a few humm-dinger posts like this that really get me wondering. It seems like a point that is just purposely designed to screw with the town. Rocks posts were there same way.

Btw, we really need Amished to come back. He could help us understand this doll better and how Trilby escaped from its power. This is what leads me to believe its SK properties are temporary because as I recall Trilby just wakes up in that outdoor supply room free from the doll's effects.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Point #1: Begins the game off on the wrong foot regarding myself. I realize this does not qualify as a main argument or anything but it

IS

part of the overall case and needs to be noted:

Let me get this straight:

Lamont was the leading wagon for a while yesterday

He (by his own admission) made up a story about how the shotgun shell was growing increasingly hot and potentially even threatened to kill him

The Cranston Wagon folded up like a cheap suit and the day ended in a no lynch

Lamont was miraculously saved by healer who visited him in the middle of the night. He then MENTIONED THE FACT THAT HE WAS HEALED IN THREAD and reminded the healer to not come out

yes, keep going...

Spoiler Alert:

You're probably scum

Point #2: He makes several posts which are an anti-town attempt to (1)derail the vig vote and (2)minimize the potential importance of items and item-town interaction. I point out how it is an anti-town sentiment:

How did it survive 'till today intact? It IS an obvious vig item right, a SHOTGUN shell...??

I don't think it's an obvious anything. There's been entirely too much WIFOM speculation about what items might do and whether someone who chooses to use an item is/isn't scum.

The mod clearly stated that day-drop items have to be used that day.

The shotgun shell was a day-drop item that was not used the day it was found.

So of course, what we end up doing is devoting 85% of the discussion to who should be vigged.

Good job, carry on.

Point #3: This is a simultaneous attempt to both sound town-like in defending a town power role but also cast suspicion against both roles:

As problematic as Naomi's claim may be, why is she being wagoned when she's claimed power villa and hasn't been counter-claimed or peeked nor recanted her claim?

I'm also glad to see some people finally questioning Amished's claim. As loathe as I am to speculate on roles, a self-protecting doc seems so overpowered as to be implausible. I think Amished's claim is less believable than Naomi's. However, neither of them should be wagoned yet.

Of course I see this ending like weird claims usually do, with one or both of them living to LYLO and then saying "lulz, I was just kidding" and wondering why they have to be lynched.

/soapbox

As for today,

vote lamont

A final note. In my research I came across a post that might of cleared Rock. He mentions the town role PM. It took me an hour but I finally tracked down that it was Zazier that discovered this and made it very plain for everyone to see. So the point here is that he was only following along and not leading the way and so it doesn't at all clear him.

On a separate note, I no longer suspect Zazier at all and I think she is town. I wish she would stop role PM fishing though.

Unvote

Maybe Dev isnt the best lynch today.

Wait a minute... You're buying a vanillager claim??

You see no reason to believe Deves his claim from any post on this page?

I can claim Bozo the Vanillager Clown and make the same post...

There are two things that aren't right in that post.
If he's an Innocent, it should say an Innocent and not "you're innocent" and the 'brain' is called differently. All the other things fit with my flavor.
So the only thing is that he didn't claim an Innocent, but said "you're innocent". As it's paraphrased, it's not a point against him.

Dev came about as close to quoting the Town role pm as he could without getting modkilled. Unless scum were given copies of it (and why the mod would do that rather than just quote the town role pm in the rules is beyond me) then he is town.

Ok there isn't much to look at from Rock which is another point against him; his lurking.

Overall his entire profile is of someone who doesn't care about the town or town goals. Not only that but

actively attempts to subvert the town in its efforts to accomplish those goals

. This is why I suspect him.

Now for the case on his replacement.

[Lamont_Cranston]

He's certainly a player to watch, and the refusal to RC

must

yield results

soon

. I'd also like for him to explain this "plan" of his, because it's not clear to me what he is proposing.

Right. He needs to explain it more because there seems to be alot of confusion regarding it.

There are far stronger lynch candidates today. They are zwet, dramonic, and Pyro.

I can see a Zwet. I cannot see the others; I think they have both been town assets.

@L_C: Of those who have been confirmed or semi-confirmed as town, who do you think are still confirmed in spite of the doll complication?

1) I would of preferred a post that helps the town deal with the issue rather than a carte blanche "all reads are off".
2) I believe the doll SK properties are temporary and I think this can be used to help the doll holder claim and help the town. I believe the doll needs to be used in the final scene to kill the dispossed boy before the manor is burnt down.

But to answer your question, I think scum faced with a confirmed self-protecting doc and an unNKable powerrole cleared by a cop may be tempted to do something about it. Her arguments don't make much sense, either - saying Amished may be scum/vanilla begs the "what happened to hohum N1" question, for example, and claiming

three incredibly powerful PRs

with

confirmable actions

would be an incredibly gutsy and probably fatal scum move. Desperate scum or tilted town are the ways I can read ZazieR, but I'll have to see more of her "live" (so to speak) before I can make up my mind.

I no longer suspect her and consider her conf-town.

[Lamont_Cranston]

#1: I don't like how he advocates destroying important items needed for a town win:

Hm... how would you suggest eliminating the doll?

FYI, I agree about saving the matches. From the flavor people have suggested, we can't use the matches in order to win, but as to the doll, how should it be destroyed.

@zazier:

Oh, in that case... hm...

Who thinks that destroying all three things is a good thing? a bad thing? Why?

#2: Making a claim that is not a claim..

I know I am the wrong person, and were it an earlier day, I would be relatively okay with being given the doll

and flipping innocent

.

However, that would be stupid now since we already lost 7 and only one scum flipped among them.

I know I am the wrong person, and were it an earlier day, I would be relatively okay with being given the doll and flipping innocent.

However, that would be stupid now since we already lost 7 and only one scum flipped among them.

That is not a claim

No, it's not.

If it is not a claim what is it exactly?

I am witholding my analysis on all posts after the ones I quoted until he explains his plan in detail. Too many people are confused over it.

Right now I can see a profile of caught-scum trying desperately to divert focus from himself to anything else. I have other reads but I don't want to go into those atm.

[Lamont_Cranston]

2) I believe the doll SK properties are temporary and I think this can be used to help the doll holder claim and help the town. I believe the doll needs to be used in the final scene to kill the dispossed boy before the manor is burnt down.

Errrm, on second thought

claiming

might not be the best idea...

I'm not actually sure what is in fact...

[Lamont_Cranston]

Let's do a post analysis of Rock

1. Attacks Lamont with his reasons for voting being ridiculous.

2. Speculation about how the shotgun shell is apparently not a vig item. Of course it's to be used as a supository

3. Accuses Xtoxm of flooding the thread with item speculation without actually bringing an intelligent explanation to the shell (mind you, it's a pretty obvious item)

4. Plays victim

5. vigvote dev without ANY explanation

6.

Also, someone just have me prodded once all this vig nonsense is over with.

Nice way of not participating. He's not even V/LA, he's just running away. Useful way to avoid suspicion, when you don't say anything.

7. Use of fail logic to push more of his illusions on the town about lynching Lamont

8. Fails to understand basic logic when faced with it

9. Twists people's intentions to fit his needs.

10. Lurks hard.

11. L-K refusing to claim

12. L-K not bringing any town play after Rock's play

Yeah, he's scummy alright.

12 reasons to lynch Rock/L-K

I support and endorse the above product.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Set has been cleared.

Also, I notice you joined over a year ago. I actually had to check because from the way you are defending yourself, I expected that you might be new.

Since this is NOT the case I now expect that you are scum.

You haven't changed a thing about how I feel concerning Rock. In fact, Rock at least

tried

to look town with solid town-like posts here and there.

Your defense is so convoluted I can only support your hammer.

[Lamont_Cranston]

LOL

[Lamont_Cranston]

Errf. We need a votecount.

Mod votecount please.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Vote Count:

Light-Kun (6) - Dramonic, Lamont_Cranston, Zwetschenwasser, Dev, Tajo, Stepho

Dramonic (2) - ZazieR, Light-Kun
Zwet (1) - Percy

Not Voting - Pyromaniac, Amished, Sajin

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Dam. Kicks self.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Stupid votecount error. Well I guess we go into night now. Looks like we got scum.

[Lamont_Cranston]

We can't replace Amished. He has played all the games.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Hmmm, 1/2 Gelus -- I guess that means two people occupy the same account for modding purposes...

Just to be clear, I am new but I've read through several games and your defense doesn't remind of the experienced defenses I've read.

An experienced town defense will usually consist of crisp, logical, pro-town ideas not confusing, convoluted hard to understand reasoning that has loopholes the size of swiss cheese and appear to help scum.

[Lamont_Cranston]

LOL

[Lamont_Cranston]

Right its best to let Modkill here. I didn't want to say anything but I bet he is the junior part of Gelus. The senior one I am familiar with and would never of let this happen imo.

[Lamont_Cranston]

O my.

[Lamont_Cranston]

HA HA! I got the Mod joke HA HA! But durned if I can put into words what it means...

[Lamont_Cranston]

My guess is that SOMEBODY has the matches now. And for the record, its not me.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Great, so we might now be unable to win the game and to top it off, odds are we are currently in MyLo


Also, update to the list!

dramonic

Cleared by Stepho

Stephoscope

Cleared by Naomi

Devestation

Cleared by Naomi

Amished

Cleared by Hohum/Elmo

Lamont_Cranston
zwetschenwasser
Sironigous
Pyromaniac
ZazieR
Populartajo

If we have 4 scum, which still sounds like a plausible amount to me for a 19 player game, we are now in MyLo

My gut says Tajo, but at this point in the game the scum can quickvote and lynch, so I'm not voting yet

Sironi cleared himself with the town PM. Zazier cleared hersel the same way.

That leaves:

Lamont_Cranston
zwetschenwasser
Pyromaniac
Populartajo

There is no way I'm voting for Pyro. That leaves Tajo or Zwet. I think we need to ISO these folks and figure out what is going on with them.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Great, so we might now be unable to win the game and to top it off, odds are we are currently in MyLo


Also, update to the list!

dramonic

Cleared by Stepho

Stephoscope

Cleared by Naomi

Devestation

Cleared by Naomi

Amished

Cleared by Hohum/Elmo

Lamont_Cranston
zwetschenwasser
Sironigous
Pyromaniac
ZazieR
Populartajo

If we have 4 scum, which still sounds like a plausible amount to me for a 19 player game, we are now in MyLo

My gut says Tajo, but at this point in the game the scum can quickvote and lynch, so I'm not voting yet

Sironi cleared himself with the town PM. Zazier cleared hersel the same way.

That leaves:

Lamont_Cranston
zwetschenwasser
Pyromaniac
Populartajo

There is no way I'm voting for Pyro. That leaves

Tajo

or

Zwet

. I think we need to ISO these folks and figure out what is going on with them.

[Lamont_Cranston]

My gut says they are both scum.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Hey Lammont, you should also check who got cleared by the town PM.

I have checked in great detail.

Lammont, why are you not going to vote for Pyro?

Because I have gotten town vibes from him all game.

Ftr, can we lynch Zwet now?

[Lamont_Cranston]

Hey Lammont, you should also check who got cleared by the town PM.

I have checked in great detail.

Lammont, why are you not going to vote for Pyro?

Because I have gotten town vibes from him all game.

@Tajo:

Ftr, can we lynch Zwet now?

[Lamont_Cranston]

Well based on the above post I am saying that there is only 3 scum and they MUST be:

zwetschenwasser
Pyromaniac
Populartajo

We just need to figure out which one we want to go first and we have this game locked.

[Lamont_Cranston]

So I admit I was wrong about Pyro. I am wrong alot is seems...

[Lamont_Cranston]

To get this ball rolling:

Vote Pyro

[Lamont_Cranston]

Tajo its over. You, Pyro and Zwet are scum.

Scum will unvote townies so what. That doesn't clear you.

I did alot of research much later than the post you quoted of me. Of course Vanillager claims are suspect, that's obvious.

Face it all 3 of you are done.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Tajo its over. You, Pyro and Zwet are scum.

Scum will unvote townies so what. That doesn't clear you.

I did alot of research much later than the post you quoted of me. Of course Vanillager claims are suspect, that's obvious.

Face it all 3 of you are done.

1)

Tell me why dodesnt your logic apply to me?

No. YOU show me where you referenced the town PM like the others did. I haven't seen it and NOBODY else has either.

2)

Also tell me why did you change your mind so radically when me and Amished asked for why you thought Pyro was town?

I said I had town vibes from him all game. That means when confronted by a list of potential scum he is the last I would vote for (or not at all). Out of the four of us, I am the only one that is town aligned and therefore you three ARE the scum.

[Lamont_Cranston]

I'm very uncertain about his alignment, although I'm more interested in a Zwet lynch. But we must be careful, for all we know scum might have a copy of the VT role PM.

Yeah this is a good point.

My problem with Lammont is that he is

a) clearing people based on the vanilla PM.

b) he is not even consistent with this. He thinks Zazie and Siro are town for this but he avoids my unvote at the time and he manages to get a three scumteam (zwet, pyro and me) out of nothing.

Also that 180 flip regarding Pyro is scummy as hell. I dont think Im the only one seeing this.

This is so illogical and totally condemns you.

Your crappy quote has NOTHING to do with the town role PM. The reason why you cant even put together a proper defense here is because YOU DON'T HAVE A TOWN ROLE PM.

[Lamont_Cranston]

One thing we can say here though, Tajo IS trying. Got to give him points for that.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Ok so you haven't

positively

referenced the town role pm like the others.

Your unvote remains unexplained.

I will examine this in-thread and post my opinion.

[Lamont_Cranston]

For everyone's easy reference, here is the quote in-thread:

Tajo's Highly Vaunted Unvote

[Lamont_Cranston]

He just unvotes and disappears and never says anything about it again.

Does anybody really believe that the scum have the VT role PM??

If they do we are really screwed because being at potentially MYLO and having many potential suspects is really bad for the town.

I do not know the actual value of this suggestion, but I will at least make it so people can comment on it:

It is possible that we can No Lynch and let Stepho clear another person.

Based on the recent events:

Unvote

[Lamont_Cranston]

Now, I'm as down for a zwet vote as the two of you but what about the scum having the town role PM?

Isn't it possible we are just being lead around by the nose here?

[Lamont_Cranston]

Ya the timing of it was so perfect though. I mean of course I agree with you but he himself even brought it up like he was conscious of it and did it on purpose. It kind of scares me.

How sure can we be that our list is really correct? Two people are being cleared solely because of the town role PM and now we have a third person that really, has to be scum, with the same info..

It just scares me.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Lammont, you havent still given a valid answer to this:

Out of the four of us, I am the only one that is town aligned and therefore you three ARE the scum.

Why so eager to form scumgroups? Can you explain your logic in clearing Zazie and Siro? Can you explain, now that youve reread post 3617, why the same logic isnt applied to me?

That means when confronted by a list of potential scum he is the last I would vote for (or not at all).

To get this ball rolling:

Vote Pyro

Contradiction much?

Why are you voting Pyro over zwet or me?

Now, if you two will stop bickering, this conversation is about as useless as it is crap. we have 4 suspect. We lynch Zwet who has no defense, investigate Lamont, lynch him if he's scum, if not we lynch Pyro and investigate Tajo.

It's not rocket science <<

Well, I dont think its useless. Lammont keeps contradicting himself and using circular logic to make me look bad. But I see where you are going with this. Fair enough.

Unvote Vote: zwet.

Also, I'd like to make it clear, specifically for Tajo, unvoting someone who states the town PM doesn't make you town-confirmed. Scum knows who is town, therefore they can confirm any claim from a VT without being shown suspicious.

Yeah I never said that will make me 100% confirmed townie. I was trying to explain that Lammont is being very inconsistent here. He says that Zazier and Siro are confirmed town for this but that now I am scum having the vanilla PM.

See the bad logic?

It doesnt stop there:

How sure can we be that our list is really correct? Two people are being cleared solely because of the town role PM and now we have a third person that really, has to be scum, with the same info..

Lammont, your basic premise to reduce the pool of suspect was that Zazier and Siro were cleared because of the vanilla PM. Why cant Zazie and Siro be scum and I HAVE to be scum in this scenario?

Look, I have accepted your defense as it is. You don't have to rub it in. If you ARE scum though (and the scum have the town role PM) then we are sunk and Zwet is prob-town.

The problem here is that Tajo can't be town here based on what we know about the town role PM but he's claiming a part of it with the post he referenced. This is a problem because we must have 3 scum and one of them is claiming first hand knowledge of the town role PM!

[Lamont_Cranston]

I am spooked by this entire situation. I'm going to take Tajo's basic reluctance to vote Pyro and his eagerness to vote Zwet as a sign for the safer lynch:

Vote Pyro

[Lamont_Cranston]

The problem here is that Tajo can't be town here based on what we know about the town role PM

Why cant I be town based on what we know about the role PM?

Well based on all the people that

positively

cleared themselves with the role PM, we have a list of 4 people of which 3 must be scum. However, one of them is now claiming that same first hand knowledge of the town role PM.

1. You said that Pyro gave you townie vibes and that he would be your last suspect based on process of elimination. Yet you vote him first before zwet or me. Why?

I am not going to keep addressing these silly points. I was only narrowing down a list for my vote. Once I found out that there had to be 3-4 scum I saw that I must of been mistaken about my "town vibes" for Pyro.

2. Why Zazier and Siro are confirmed town and I am confirmed scum based on the PM situation. What diferentiates me from them? Why I am the scum in this group? Why do you think there HAS to be scum in this group?

This is the scary part. The only thing that makes you different is that you didn't EXPLICITLY say anything about the town role PM where they did. It is very scary that you are bringing it up becuse IF it is true there is something very wrong with our calculations.

Lammont, no comments of the zwet vote?

I commented. I said the safer vote appears to be Pyro whom you did not appear eager to vote for.

[Lamont_Cranston]

We should MC, imo. Or no lynch.

And MC why? To add more confusion?? To aid scum in their NK??

NL I can see...

[Lamont_Cranston]

We're supposed to have confirmed scum but we've ended up with one too many town role PM claimers. This would indicate they are lying or we have made a big mistake somewhere...

[Lamont_Cranston]

Basically Zazier was the leader (following Deves). Technically Tajo unvoted first but he never really said

specifically

why. He had no prompt to unvote. He unvoted IMMEDIATELY after the claim but with no explanation. It was Zazier that provided the explanation.

Yes his claim is the weakest but again the scary part here is the fact that he is bringing it up like he did it on purpose and he knew it. If he is lying he is one of the best liars. If he is telling the truth then we have made a big mistake somewhere...

[Lamont_Cranston]

Right, well in my mind that is Zwet. But, dam I hope we're right...

[Lamont_Cranston]

What scares me here is Tajo is oh so willing to lynch Zwet but only wants to question why I think Pyro is town. This makes me want to lynch Pyro and not Zwet...

[Lamont_Cranston]

Oh and btw based on our data Pyro HAS to be scum...

[Lamont_Cranston]

HA HA! You know what?? I think Tajo is BUSSING Zwet!!!

[Lamont_Cranston]

[Lamont_Cranston]

Tajo's claim is the weakest of the bunch though, since he approves a town PM, not produce it, if you get what I mean.

And Zaz confirmed it before he did, right?

So he could (as scum) safely say "yeah, I have that too" and unvote, knowing he's not suspicious cause someone who he KNOWS is town confirmed the PM before him.

So... Pyro, Tajo, Zwet and You.

Sounds about right?

I was the first unvoting Dev and "reacting" to his claim. If it isnt obvious by now, what he claimed is extremely similar to what I have on my PM.

I obviously didnt explain why I unvoted because I wanted to evaluate what kind of reactions Dev claim was going to produce. Zazie was good and thats why I think she is pretty much town. Lammont didnt react good at all and he was even asking why a vanilla claim made me unvote. He obviously doesnt have the same PM Dev claimed to have.

Yes his claim is the weakest but again the scary part here is the fact that he is bringing it up like he did it on purpose and he knew it.

Of course I unvoted with a purpose. Dev claimed a PM that is extremely similar to mine.

Why do you keep asuming that I am scum? Why cant you assume Im town with the same PM? Why did you react like you reacted to Dev claim?

Ok I will finally be very plain here:

Initially I didn't think to check my role PM and so I didn't catch it like some others did. As soon as it became obvious and I checked it I realized how it is a great rolefishing tool for scum and so I purposely remained silent -- even to the point of ignoring Zazier about it. I refused to cut a profile either way; that way scum wouldn't know for sure if I was vanilla or not.

That's it.

[Lamont_Cranston]

like how currently scum can easily pinpoint the remaining PRs, yes?

Right. If they see someone claiming Vanilla, they know to NK elsewhere.

[Lamont_Cranston]

However, if Pyro isn't lying, which the precision of flavour would "prove", then we can coordinate the protections accordingly.

I'd say if Pyro is honest, Zaz is the final scum.

There is no way Zazier is scum here. She has the town role PM of a certainty.

[Lamont_Cranston]

If Tajo had the town role PM then we have made big mistake somewhere. At this point I am only saying Tajo is claiming to have the town role PM. The fact that you say he DOES doesn't make me feel any better about you either. In fact you, Tajo & Zwet are the scum we are looking for.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Great, so we might now be unable to win the game and to top it off, odds are we are currently in MyLo


Also, update to the list!

dramonic

Cleared by Stepho

Stephoscope

Cleared by Naomi

Devestation

Cleared by Naomi

Amished

Cleared by Hohum/Elmo

Lamont_Cranston
zwetschenwasser
Sironigous
Pyromaniac
ZazieR
Populartajo

If we have 4 scum, which still sounds like a plausible amount to me for a 19 player game, we are now in MyLo

My gut says Tajo, but at this point in the game the scum can quickvote and lynch, so I'm not voting yet

Sironi cleared himself with the town PM. Zazier cleared hersel the same way.

That leaves:

Lamont_Cranston
zwetschenwasser
Pyromaniac
Populartajo

There is no way I'm voting for Pyro. That leaves

Tajo

or

Zwet

. I think we need to ISO these folks and figure out what is going on with them.

Looking at the above list, we've made no mistake. I say hang 'em all high!

Unvote, Vote Zwet

[Lamont_Cranston]

I have a question? Do we have enough votes to lynch Zwet?

[Lamont_Cranston]

Ok we have two confirmed town that can drop the hammer. We need to do what needs to be done. :/

[Lamont_Cranston]

Every claim we've had this game has been like this -- shrouded in confusion.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Someobody has been lying to us OR the scum have the town role PM.

[Lamont_Cranston]

dramonic
populartajo
Lamont_Cranston
Sironigous-Percy
Stephoscope
Devestation
Amished
ZazieR

[Lamont_Cranston]

Cleared

Stephoscope

dramonic

Amished

The following people claim town power role PM knowledge:

populartajo
Sironigous-Percy
Devestation
ZazieR

Which leaves only:

Lamont_Cranston

So therefore the town role PM is horsecrap and the scum have it.

[Lamont_Cranston]

* vanilla role pm

[Lamont_Cranston]

Vote Zazier

She was the number one role PM rolefisher and the first one to explicitly identify the significance of the town role PM. I think she did it in attempt to clear herself but as scum she was give the town role PM.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Wat about devestation though?

[Lamont_Cranston]

Cleared

Stephoscope

dramonic

Amished
Devestation

The following people claim town power role PM knowledge:

populartajo
Sironigous-Percy
ZazieR

Which leaves only:

Lamont_Cranston

So therefore the town role PM is horsecrap and the scum have it.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Btw there are only 3 scum.

[Lamont_Cranston]

populartajo
Sironigous-Percy
ZazieR

[Lamont_Cranston]

We have this game locked. gg town.

[Lamont_Cranston]

The only way the town loses is if they lynch me.

[Lamont_Cranston]

We don't need his protections. We win because we know who the scum are.

[Lamont_Cranston]

and this time its not based on the VT role PM which the scum have

[Lamont_Cranston]

When Zazie flips scum you'll have a really good idea honey.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Well pudding cakes we really don't have to worry about this because Stepho has a scum peek or has cleared me anyway.

[Lamont_Cranston]

You see there blueberry Stepho peeked one of the scum last night (see my list in red) or peeked me. So the game is lock for town. GG town.

Oh Percy? You can give up now.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Oh.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Well time will tell there sweet stuff.

You know the scum are going to be railing against all the town docs that are bullet proof.

I mean where else can you miss scum every day and yet pull off an unstoppable town win?

[Lamont_Cranston]

I mean BP doc of course.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Sorry Percy we all know you're scum. It won't help to try and discredit the town cop.

[Lamont_Cranston]

I mean Percy is trying his best but truly its a lost cause here. The town has an auto-win.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Well even then we know there is 3 scum and can agree on one of them I am sure.

[Lamont_Cranston]

I mean we have 75% chance of being correct just by throwing a dart.

[Lamont_Cranston]

LOL, run it through random.org XD

[Lamont_Cranston]

Yes but as I've stated, the difference here is that now we know that you and Zazier and Tajo have the VT role PM. So none of our reasoning is based on that anymore. This is why now we are certain.

I'm sure you must be kind of miffed having to replace in and work so hard on that re-read only to have a BP Doc that auto-wins for town. I feel you there.

You did inspire me to study more and I want to thank you for that.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Ok so you're not going to give up. That's fine, we'll let Stepho handle this. Your continued attempt to discredit the town Cop noted.

[Lamont_Cranston]

WTH!?

This is NOT freaking possible!


OMGOSH. The town has lost. There is nothing I can do but there is NO WAY Tajo is town.

The reason why the town has lost here is because we have some PR lies going on OR Tajo is a GF.

That must be it. Tajo is a freaking GF. Shit.

[Lamont_Cranston]

We need some level heads here to work this out or its auto-win for scum.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Btw Stepho, if you turn out to be scum here I mean you deserve some kind of award, I mean something by your name for awhile I mean dang if you're scum you just totally won this for the scum faction. I mean you have done so well I won't vote you under any circumstances and I think anyone trying to weaken your role here is anti-town; I'll defend you to the death.

[Lamont_Cranston]

We need some level heads here to work this out or its auto-win for scum.

He's catching on, folks.

No, I think you are catching on. Before Stepho reported in it was a clear win for the town.

Stephoscope is scum, playing a brilliant game.

I am not willing to consider this as there is nothing we can do to salvage a win for town here.

Stephoscope is naive, making all her results invalid.

How does this fit flavor though? Without the flavor I think this idea is terribly wrong.

One or both of dramonic, Dev and populartajo are immune to investigations.

I think it makes sense to conclude that there is one GF amongst the scum. I think it will be impossible to determine who short of a lynch.

Percy, ZazieR and L_C are the remaining scum.

I don't see how this makes sense. You can't include yourself in your own list. Why would you do this? Are you just reaching too far to appear as town? Clearly your list here SHOULD read Tajo, Zazier & L_C but you put yourself instead. Please explain as I think it looks scummy.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Because we know for certain there has to be a GF we are screwed and we will just have to take our best guess.

Mod votecount please.

[Lamont_Cranston]

I think Percy is right and we should start voting in blue non-bolded or something which means an intention to vote.

Unvote

Vote Zazier

I think we just have to face the fact that one of our innocents is actually a guilty. Seeing that is the case I am guessing that it would be best to vote for someone that doesn't have an innocent peek yet (obviously).

So that leaves:

Zazier
Percy
Lamont_Cranston

HAHA! I just got Percy's post! LMAO. Dam that puts a whole different light on it.

The question is: Is there room for BOTH me AND Percy to be town here...

The answer is no, not with only one GF. One of us has to be scum because we have lost if Stepho is scum anyway and it doesn't fit flavor for him to be naive and so this means Percy MUST be scum.

So our votes are safe with either Percy or Zazier here.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Give me a good reason for not believing the scum is Percy, LC and Zaz

One of our innocents is a GF. That could be Tajo or anyone else that has been declared innocent by a cop.

[Lamont_Cranston]

At least we can be sure that Percy, Zazier and L_C are NOT GF's.

[Lamont_Cranston]

And just for clarification:

The safe votes today are either Percy or Zazier.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Eventually we are going to get down to the small list of innocent peeks and we will just have to guess and that will decide the game.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Well, one thing I CAN tell you. Stepho's peeks will be reliable from now on because we've already hit our GF on the peek list.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Of your list Tajo and Zazier are the most scummy. This excludes entirely the VT role PM.

1) Zazier -- Severe Role PM fishing
2) Tajo -- Scum lurker

I think your suggestion that there is more than one GF is absurd.

Tajo could easily be the GF here. But we aren't voting for Tajo. I think anyone that advocates a Tajo vote is scum.

Therefore the vote MUST be Zazier which is where my vote is.

[Lamont_Cranston]

1. There must be some cognitive dissonance going on in your brain, because you said:

Yes but as I've stated, the difference here is that now we know that you and Zazier and Tajo have the VT role PM. So none of our reasoning is based on that anymore. This is why now we are certain.

Why criticise ZazieR for fishing for a role PM she already has? Therefore, it must be:
2. The only instance of "non-VT PM fishing" I could find was when she asked Steph what her flavour was. Is this what you're referring to? If so, I am unconvinced as to why this should earn my vote, and why it is "severe". It doesn't look great, but neither does dramonic asking for how many protections Amished has. So, yeah, try some evidence and reasoned logic, kthx.

3. More than one scum who is immune to investigations is not absurd.

4.

Tajo could easily be the GF here. But we aren't voting for Tajo. I think anyone that advocates a Tajo vote is scum.

Elaborate, now.

Did you really just bring this up?? Are you just skimming?? It has been clearly proven now that the scum have the town role PM and therefore all scum lists have been purged of this consideration. Dear goodness. Well I shouldn't be suprised because you have to be scum anyway.

Zazier has been rolefishing for full page after full page over and over as she drills on the role PM in minute detail. I mean everyone and their brother has seen it. Since you must be scum I would expect you to try and cloud things here too...

Do you not see how that since we have a GF that it only MIGHT be Tajo but that it doesn't HAVE TO BE?? Therefore because only the scum know for certain, ONLY SCUM WILL VOTE FOR TAJO at this stage. In the final stage when we are forced to guess, a Tajo vote will be possible but only then. First we have to get rid of the confirmed scum:

Zazier
Percy

[Lamont_Cranston]

It has been clearly proven now that the scum have the town role PM

Where was this proven?

Zazier has been rolefishing for full page after full page over and over as she drills on the role PM in minute detail. I mean everyone and their brother has seen it. Since you must be scum I would expect you to try and cloud things here too...

Drills on

whose

role PM? Where?
I already mentioned the Steph instance, but I couldn't find it anywhere else. Show me.

Do you not see how that since we have a GF that it only MIGHT be Tajo but that it doesn't HAVE TO BE?? Therefore because only the scum know for certain, ONLY SCUM WILL VOTE FOR TAJO at this stage.

Yes, I can see that it doesn't have to be Tajo. I don't know whether there even is a GF, or if all scum come up vanilla to Steph's investigates, or whatever else may be going on in this game.
Your logic seems to go like this:
1. All the Innocents should believe that Tajo is Innocent
2. Anyone who doesn't is therefore not Innocent.
Is that seriously what you're proposing?

Also, when did I become "confirmed scum"?

The town role PM is moot and no longer being used to determine the scum so you bringing it up is useless.

She drills on EVRYBODY's role PM over and over specifying the EXACT words used and gauging reactions. That is exactly what she was doing; everybody saw the witch hunt she pulled it went on PAGE AFTER PAGE -- you can't possibly tell me you missed it!

Ok so you still posit the naive theory. Where is the flavor to fit that? Also if he is naive we lose anyway.

Tajo is NOT guaranteed innocent. Tajo is PROBABLY the GF but he is not certainly so; he shares that probability with several other people that have come up innocent. ANYONE THAT VOTES HIM

NOW

IS ACTING ANTI-TOWN. This is clear because there are two players that MUST be scum that cannot be GF (the idea that there is more than one GF is insane). The time to vote Tajo (if we do) is after we get rid of the two confirmed scum:

Percy
Zazier

By process of elimination you are the only two left.

[Lamont_Cranston]

You have to admit Percy is pretty dedicated scum. He doesn't want to leave the scum win to the chance of a random vote (when we have to play "guess the GF"), he wants to end it early ftw.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Dramonic its not just Stepho. It also is Naomi. But you are right, I haven't sat down and figured out the list, but ONE of the people that have been declared innocent by our cops is a GF.

[Lamont_Cranston]

I'd rather keep things simple and just focus on the two confirmed scum right now and then decide from that list when the time comes.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Btw, screw this blue voting crap.

Vote Zazier

[Lamont_Cranston]

hmmm. All of a sudden your logic is starting to flake. If there is no GF we have lost anyway because the nightmare of a naive Stepho is too horrific to rectify; let's remember that it was an idea posited by confirmed scum though and not let it deter us.

Using your logic there is no confirmed scum. Any one of the three between Zazier, me & Percy can be the innocent.

I'm only telling you because I know who the scum are and I'm the only one of the three of us that has been saying it and I will continue until the end of the game. You will find no effort to confuse the issue from me and no delay in explaining it -- no need to "hunt around" and pretend I'm town just trying to understand things. I have no need to pretend.

[Lamont_Cranston]

She drills on EVRYBODY's role PM over and over specifying the EXACT words used and gauging reactions. That is exactly what she was doing; everybody saw the witch hunt she pulled it went on PAGE AFTER PAGE -- you can't possibly tell me you missed it!

If you actually go and read the game, you'll find that she does talk about the town PM a bit, but you already ruled that out.

So I ask you, once more, kindly and patiently, to show me where she PMfished a PM that was not the vanilla PM, and which was not the brief exchange with Steph about hers that I already pointed out.

Ok so you still posit the naive theory. Where is the flavor to fit that? Also if he is naive we lose anyway.

Where's the flavour in the GF theory? Otherwise, since we're already talking about sanity of investigations, we might as well analyse everything. If you want me to discard a theory, tell me why.
If he is naive, we don't

lose

. Don't be dense. If we can honestly determine that we have no way of knowing if Steph's results are at all accurate, we throw them out and hunt for scum the old fashioned way. It won't be as easy, but it's not lost. Stop overreacting.

Tajo is NOT guaranteed innocent. Tajo is PROBABLY the GF but he is not certainly so; he shares that probability with several other people that have come up innocent. ANYONE THAT VOTES HIM

NOW

IS ACTING ANTI-TOWN. This is clear because there are two players that MUST be scum that cannot be GF (the idea that there is more than one GF is insane). The time to vote Tajo (if we do) is after we get rid of the two confirmed scum:

Percy
Zazier

By process of elimination you are the only two left.

RANDOM capitalization DOES NOT make your argument ANY more CONVINCING.
You're saying that since Tajo has the chance of being a GF, it is worse to vote him? Surely if there was no chance that he was the GF then it would be bad to vote him, but in a LyLo situation where nothing makes sense, tajo is worth a look, as is everyone else.

I don't understand why you're so insistent on narrowing our search based of information you do not have or can't be bothered looking up.


3 votes on ZazieR in LyLo. I don't know how these people are so certain. This lynch is so important, and I can't see the case. *is very frustrated*

Stop bringing up the town role PM it has nothing to do with how you are confirmed scum.

Stop trying to discredit the town cop in order to sway votes from the confirmed scum list.

Of course its anti-town to vote Tajo because he's not the only one that can be GF; the list includes everyone that was cleared by a town cop.

Haha you are trying to confuse the facts. How many times am I going to have to tell you that the town role pm has NOTHING to do with how you are confirmed scum so quit bringing it up.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Believe what you want but so far he hasn't been saying the right things. He should be CERTAIN of the facts. Instead he is putting on this acting job like things are just so confusing and really need figuring out.

As far as I am concerned you just might be the GF we're looking for but I can't be bothered with that right now. We can divine those facts after Percy and Zazier are down in flames.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Stepho will be getting accurate results now and so Percy will come up scum and solve your "dilemma".

[Lamont_Cranston]

Then we got pretty gosh dang lucky in lynching scum with Zazier and I don't even want to think about the lynch at that point.

But realize this is only a hypothetical and it can only confuse the town because it is totally irrelevant at this point.

[Lamont_Cranston]

I strongly believe Zazie has the highest odds of being scum when compared to the two of you. She has done nothing in the whole game to make me believe otherwise.

So you're voting based on a null read?

Believe what you want but so far he hasn't been saying the right things. He should be CERTAIN of the facts. Instead he is putting on this acting job like things are just so confusing and really need figuring out.

What facts? There are no facts. Conjecture backed up by faulty reasoning and no evidence. These things are not facts

.



Just did an ISO of ZazieR. I can see Zazie-scum, but I'm not going to vote until others have had a chance to weigh in.

See. He is just trying to confuse things. He should be certain right now that I am scum as well as Zazie but he refuses to do that because:

1) I am town
2) He is scum
3) Zazie is scum

[Lamont_Cranston]

Ok Dramonic that's better. I agree with you there.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Hmmm...

Ok so by lack of the hammer we have narrowed it down...

I welcome an investigation on those terms.

[Lamont_Cranston]

He should be certain right now that I am scum

Um.... wow. Nice slip, buddy.

LMAO! You can't be serious. Ok by now the whole town should know Percy is scum for trying to pull that amateur analysis -- that crap is fine for a newbie game but c'mon man we're playing with the big boys now OK?

[Lamont_Cranston]

Zazier is a she and therefore its OK to keep your vote on her.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Are you through?

[Lamont_Cranston]

No its very simple. You ARE scum. There is no other option (unless you believe in some bizarre double GF theory or our town cop being naive with no flavor to match it) and it has nothing to do with what you think type or don't think or don't type.

The fact that you haven't acted as a townie in the face of the facts just reinforces the fact that you are obv-scum -- but you are scum either way.

The difference between me and you is that I've consistently pointed it out and you haven't.

Nice try Percy but too little too late.

[Lamont_Cranston]

I've played Nation States but not under Lamont Cranston.

Why is the town considering anyone other than those not cleared by cops and PR performance?

The list is only:

Lamont_Cranston
Zazier
Percy

Everything else is just mumbo jumbo.

Yes the evil players (Percy, Zazier & one more person) know that I am the last town aligned player. You can see Percy doing his best to confuse the town. The 3rd person may also try. Zazier when she shows up will also try.

But regardless of all this distraction we need to vote either Zazier or Percy today.

Anyone foolish enough to buy the multiple GF theory or that somehow Stepho is naive deserves to lose.

[Lamont_Cranston]

After all that you throw in the cop question (the only thing that matters) at the end. Your post should of been shortened just to that line alone.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Sorry to quote that whole thing just to respond to the last line.

However, I disagree with Lamont...I appreciate your going over the flavor, regardless of what your intentions are.

I am very strongly leaning toward a ZazieR lynch, but it's only fair to allow her time to speak.

I am not in favor of a massclaim.

Truthfully I appreciate the analysis too but I also understand that it is nothing more than just razzle dazzle and have a duty to say so.

[Lamont_Cranston]

I advanced the theory of there being only one scum group. This seems unlikely, as it would mean the scum killed one of their own.

However, a 2v1v16 game is actually quite plausible, especially if we need to kill the "1" faction more than once and there are dangerous items floating around.

If it's currently 2v1v5, then we could potentially be down to 2v1v2 tomorrow. Whilst it may not be LyLo, it's not looking good at all.

Of course, it could be 3v1v4, in which case it's still not LyLo, but could become a loss for the town after the night kills.


@L_C:

1. Can you put together a case against ZazieR, rather than just insisting that it's obvious and that anyone who doesn't agree with you is obvscum?

(In fact, I'd like dramonic to do the same)

And before you spout your tripe about how I'm obviously scum from the numbers game, I'll point out that yesterday you were insisting that Pyro, zwet and tajo were scum. Also,

rule 13

means you need to use your brain and that this is difficult for the town. Not only is your theory about me being scum not true, but given the nature of this game isn't even

likely

to be true.

2. Can you indicate to me why you think the scum have the Innocent PM?

(I think there is one piece of information from the Innocent PM that I believe has not been made public knowledge)

OMGOSH. Are you STILL bringing that up?? The role PM is a red herring and you need to stop bringing it up because it has nothing to do with the scum list anymore. It has nothing to do with anyone agreeing with me. It has only to do with the town agreeing with the cleared persons from our power roles and you trying to confuse things. Not only is it likely that you are scum its CERTAIN unless you want to believe that other garbage you floated about Stepho being naive or there being more than one GF.

[Lamont_Cranston]

I've got no case on Zazie. What I have is fact.

1-The only unconfirmed players are you three
2-The odds of only one of you being scum is... almost null
3-Zaz is alive. Wether scum or town, the right move for you would have been to hammer. I think you are both scum.

Thank you finally some logic. Look at my post record. I am the ONLY one that has been saying this the whole time. Percy should of known this if he was town and been saying it too. Instead he has tried every way from Sunday to confise things by discrediting the town cop, saying there are multiple GF's, saying there is only 2 scum, I mean what's next??

[Lamont_Cranston]

Lamont, dramonic has already retracted that post.

Your record is not good, don't appeal to it.

You've already been saying that the only way for me to be a good townie is to say you're scum. That is, if I had been agreeing with you from the start and saying "Lamont is obviously scum!", that would make you more likely to agree with me and accept the fact that I'm town.

There are only two conclusions to draw from this:

1. You are an Innocent and, without even realising, acknowledging a huge flaw in your analysis of the situation.
2. You are scum, and slipped big time.

---

I don't see why the role PM is a red herring. As far as I can tell, Dev quoted it, populartajo unvoted, and ZazieR was the first person to confirm most of the details. Just because ZazieR-scum makes sense in you're little world doesn't make it obvious, unavoidable fact.

If it's true that the scum have the role PM, I would be more inclined to believe you

and

ZazieR are scum. Your reaction to Dev's claim is not good, at all. Whether you-as-scum have it, or you-as-town have it, it's important to note that ZazieR prompts you multiple times to look at your PM. Apparently you just forgot to look at it, and then never touched the subject again for "tactical" reasons.

The most interesting thing from that exchange is that ZazieR did not jump on you, and essentially let you not address the issue. Scum coaching other scum is a great fit for that back-and-forth.




As far as I'm concerned, the assumption that the scum have the role PM is not an irresistible conclusion. Not yet. Perhaps after this:

@L_C: If the scum have the role PM, then I'm sure you wouldn't mind providing me with the few details that haven't already been publicly aired. If you can, I'll throw out this theory. If not, why not?

1) He didn't retract the portion of the post I referenced.
2) My record is perfect, yours however is the opposite.
3) Yes. If you are town you should of been calling me and Zazier scum without question but you didn't and that is because you are scum. It is you who have slipped.
4) The town role PM is useless and unnecessary to determine the scum. You want to look EVERYWHERE other than our approved power roles to somehow distract the town from the obvious truth; you have tried everything possible to do this. I on the other hand have remained consistent based on the facts that we clearly have.
5) I don't care if the scum have the town role PM or not. At this point it is 100% irrelevant and only a distraction to the discussion (something which you have been doing all day but who can blame you? I must say you are playing it much better than I would of if I was scum).

[Lamont_Cranston]

1) LOL. No he didn't but seeing that you're scum it makes sense you would grasp at straws here.

2) LOL. Once again you try to confuse things. This is TODAY not yesterdaay. Get with it. You're way behind here.

3) WTH!?

4) The role PM means NOTHING. Our cop peeks mean EVERYTHING.

[Lamont_Cranston]

You retracted the part about the hammer which had nothing to do with my comment. I don't need the hammer to know Percy is scum.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Sorry that's all that would come to mind in reaction to a statement that was so piss poor.

[Lamont_Cranston]

This is all mumbo jumbo. The town knows TODAY not yesterday who the scum are because of cop peeks and confirmed town PR's. All of this yesterday garbage about the town role PM is just being used to try and confuse the town.

Remember how long it took the supposed town Percy to roll around to finally accuse somebody. He should of been on it immediately. I think it is clear now why he wasn't.

[Lamont_Cranston]

There is no way to prove it but since we know that Percy is confirmed scum, it would appear that Tajo is acting as the GF here. Again, there is no proof that Tajo is the GF but he is acting as if he is.

Zazier and Percy are the lynch for today.

[Lamont_Cranston]

That would be:

Mod could you please put the suntan lotion down and give us a votecount please...

[Lamont_Cranston]

Btw, every one of Percy's arguments are crap here. I dopn't expect Percy to admit that of course (he's scum) but anyone else can question me on any one of his arguments and I will happily explain.

[Lamont_Cranston]

The reason Tajo appears to be acting as the GF here is because he embraces the same sound town logic that I have but then votes me instead of the obv-scum Percy or Zazier!

See, Percy has yet to embrace the proper logic, instead he obfuscates and confuses things by saying there are multiple GF's or that Stepho is naive whereas I have consulted the cleared town roles

ALL ALONG

.

Tajo should be voting Percy or Zazier and the question is: WHY ISN'T HE??

[Lamont_Cranston]

Look its simple. We have 4 people left that are unconfirmed. One of them is town. There ISN'T anything to figure out. If you call that bluster and back it up with a vote then you deserve to lose.

[Lamont_Cranston]

There is one GF Dramonic. It could be Tajo or anyone else that has been peeked.

[Lamont_Cranston]

The reason I'm the only one saying that is because I'm the town among Percy and Zazier. Seriously.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Scum would love to have this to be rocket science but it isn't.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Devestation, surely you have an opinion on whether Percy's assertion that there's a section of the Innocent PM that Lamont (who has absolutely claimed vanilla) should know but doesn't?

OMG. This is so much razzle dazzle from scum. If you're going to quote that post then quote the ones where I refuse to participate in obvious rolefishing by Zazier.

Besides, this is such a red herring issue -- he has been looking at EVERYTHING other than the fact that we have only 3 people left uncleared. I mean this is SO scum aware its sick.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Or that he should be able to clear up inconsistencies...whatever it is that Percy's saying.

This would be a hell of a risky gamble for Percy if he's scum.

What?? NO this is desperation by Percy! Can't you see he has no choice?? See he knows Zazier is scum and he is scum. So he is forced to pretend like its SO confusing and he has to stumble around and eventually pick the townie to vote for. I mean if he was town he would just be voting me as obv-scum and end game.

I mean its so obvious he is not town here.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Are you saying Stepho or Dev is scum now?

Devestation could be the GF. Stepho can't be scum or we've lost anyway.

[Lamont_Cranston]

I mean if he was town he would just be voting me as obv-scum

I am voting you. You lied about your claim. You are obv-scum.

LOL. And it took you HOW LONG to actually get there?? The fact that it took you so long is why you are confirmed scum. It is scum aware to try and confuse things as much as you did. A townie would of just voted properly.

Everybody needs to get that through their thick sculls so the town has a chance of winning today. Again, it does only come down to a chance even though we know who 2 of the 3 scum are. Its the GF where we will have to guess.

After we lynch Percy & Zazier it will be "Guess the GF time".

[Lamont_Cranston]

I am 100% certain that Percy is scum but I understand the dilemma the town is in. I advocated NL earlier but I wasn't sure about it becaue I was thinking the town might still lose. If the town can benefit from NL it would mean that we are in MYLO and not LYLO.

Can we discuss this a bit before I change my vote? Because if it is LYLO we will still lose if we NL.

Also, ftr I'm not 3rd party here.