War in Heaven II - Spirit of Vengeance (Over!)

[Kinetic]

FOS: Kinetic

You want to make the day as long as possible, which goes in direct contradiction to this rage point theory.

Yes, as long as possible, but not too long that it becomes horribly detrimental. I've yet to see a game where quick lynching has won the game, and I refuse to quick lynch for the sake of such. This doesn't mean I'm advocating waiting forever, but I'm not going to make hasty decisions either.

You also have to look at the other side of the coin. While the scum are saving points, they aren't using them, which makes them useless until actually used. It does mean that they can dump, and effectively night kill with such a dump, but these rules highly favor the town, not the scum.

By making sure we're not spreading damage we can make it so rage dumps are few and far between.

I don't understand the healing of players that haven't taken damage yet. Somebody explain?

You can go to +1 your "maximum" health, read the rules.

Quick days will only HELP the scum, so I intend to draw out their intentions and actions and refuse to let them cause chaos and push the town into hasty actions.

Wrong. Long days allow scum to accumulate rage points as has been pointed out. Quick days in terms of real life time help the town. Optimal town play requires long day is terms of posts but quick in terms of time.

Not wrong, by your own admission. I judge length more by the number of posts and less by the time it takes to get the posts.

Either way, I think its generally agreed upon at this time not to take too long, but also not to let rage points control us either.

I don't see any need to subvert the hurt/heal mechanism. Just try to concentrate your fire on people who are already hurt, rather than wearing everyone down at once. That will make it harder for scum to suddenly kill townies using secret damage.

As several people have said, a fast-paced game helps the town even more than normal. Expect scum to try to slow it down by lurking.

Something about this post reeks.

FOS:Xyl

If we do choose to focus fire, I think we should avoid mass-firing in a short time and always have a heal cooldown ready for a rage damage dump.

I disagree with this. I think we need to Mass fire so we learn exactly who and how many people are on the "wagon" so to speak. The way this game is set up your "vote" is refreshed every day or so, and as such a small group can kill someone rather quickly.

Perhaps we should make another rule of sorts, Once you harm someone, for the time being, you do not harm them again. I'm trying to think of a way of wording it, but this system is very unique.

Basically I want to avoid a small group leading all the lynches. I want as many opinions on the kills as possible before someone dies.

Also, since the Smallest life pool total is 7, we should never try to hurt someone past that threshold without letting them claim at the very least. It also gives us a little buffer in case they have more HP that 7 and scum try and secret kill them.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I don't understand the healing of players that haven't taken damage yet. Somebody explain?

HP caps at 1 above your starting amount. Bumping everyone's HP up by 1 slightly minimises the effectiveness of scum rage points, which makes sense.

I looked back and couldn't find this rule anywhere. Where are your sources?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Rule 14. Kay.

[Nuwen]

Sure, why not.

Heal: Albert B. Rampage

Don't you warmer and safer already?

I think maintaining a high average health is an excellent idea. The cumulative damage to the town will be identical, but concentrating it on a single player allows us to read hurt actions like votes.

[Kinetic]

Heal ABR

[Kinetic]

rofl, simulpost FTL >>

[Albert B. Rampage]

Kinetic's is unbelievably anti-town.

If we do choose to focus fire, I think we should avoid mass-firing in a short time and always have a heal cooldown ready for a rage damage dump.

I disagree with this. I think we need to Mass fire so we learn exactly who and how many people are on the "wagon" so to speak. The way this game is set up your "vote" is refreshed every day or so, and as such a small group can kill someone rather quickly.

Starting from 3 weeks from this post, we should always have healers on the ready in case of a massive rage dump.

Perhaps we should make another rule of sorts, Once you harm someone, for the time being, you do not harm them again. I'm trying to think of a way of wording it, but this system is very unique.

This is unbelievably stupid.

Basically I want to avoid a small group leading all the lynches. I want as many opinions on the kills as possible before someone dies.

Trying to force-stall a game again.

Also, since the Smallest life pool total is 7, we should never try to hurt someone past that threshold without letting them claim at the very least. It also gives us a little buffer in case they have more HP that 7 and scum try and secret kill them.

Wow!! NO! We don't ask for claims in a game like this, we rape the scum like thunder before they realize what hit them.

I reiterate: no waiting for claims!

Kinetic is trying to stall the game AGAIN. That's 3 times now. After we've all capped off at our maximum hp, we should kill Kinetic right off the bat.

[Cybele]

I agree, in a semi-open game such as this, claims are nearly useless. If we have a target for lynch, waiting for a claim won;t help.

[Kinetic]

Perhaps we should make another rule of sorts, Once you harm someone, for the time being, you do not harm them again. I'm trying to think of a way of wording it, but this system is very unique.

This is unbelievably stupid.

-.- Got it. You realize I HATE being called stupid right?

Stop it now. Explain yourself. Why are my ideas stupid but yours are perfect? How do we even KNOW there is a rage like mechanic in this game like the last one? Hell I can think of 3 or 4 different mechanics which are similar but work on different principals other than time (such as, 1 rage every time someone is killed, or 1 rage every time one of them is harmed, etc etc)

I want to gain as much information as possible from kills.

Tell me, HOW IS THAT UNBELIEVIBLY STUPID OMG< LOL HAHAHA HAHAHA AH HAHA HA HAH AQH REAHGEAGHN AERG $#QTG$#GF AWERGFR.

...

Basically I want to avoid a small group leading all the lynches. I want as many opinions on the kills as possible before someone dies.

Trying to force-stall a game again.

Umm... no. Read what I wrote just a few sentences earlier. I am for mass movements of kills, in a short time frame, but from multiple players, once we've decided among ourselves on a kill.

I am not for having 3 people using hard three times in as many days and killing someone and only those three people having "opinions" on the attack.

Having 7-10 people on a lynch is usually better than 3-4, at least in my experience.

If we have lurkers and people who are non-committal, that needs to be dealt with. But just giving up on those players and going forward with a lynch is hasty and one of the things I'm trying to avoid. We need ACTIVE players who are able to make decisions. And when we have ACTIVE players we can organize a lynch quickly and you don't need to worry about your precious rage mechanics (which I'm starting to believe may not even exist in the way you're all preaching them).

Also, since the Smallest life pool total is 7, we should never try to hurt someone past that threshold without letting them claim at the very least. It also gives us a little buffer in case they have more HP that 7 and scum try and secret kill them.

Wow!! NO! We don't ask for claims in a game like this, we rape the scum like thunder before they realize what hit them.

I reiterate: no waiting for claims!

Kinetic is trying to stall the game AGAIN. That's 3 times now. After we've all capped off at our maximum hp, we should kill Kinetic right off the bat.

After thinking about it for a bit, I realize that claims are not really that big of a deal in this game, based on the types of roles that are out there and the mechanics behind it.

My mistake. However, I can admit when this game trips me up a little bit, but I'm still willing to be active and pro-town.

I'd appreciate it if you would have some courtesy and be civil.

As for the charge of stalling, I think you're being way to hot-headed. This is the way I am. I think, I reason, and I discuss. It is how I play and it is how I win. The mind cannot be rushed and I will not be hasty in my decision making.

[populartajo]

Everyone:

Whats wrong with a fake voting system?

I can keep up with the fake votecounts.
We treat this game as a normal game and we avoid hurting someone that could be town.

Vote : Kinetic.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Kinetic, please.

Stop it now. Explain yourself. Why are my ideas stupid but yours are perfect? How do we even KNOW there is a rage like mechanic in this game like the last one? Hell I can think of 3 or 4 different mechanics which are similar but work on different principals other than time (such as, 1 rage every time someone is killed, or 1 rage every time one of them is harmed, etc etc)

This is a nightless game and the rage mechanic makes perfect sense. The hypothetical mechanics that you suggest here are incredibly broken in favor of town. The only constant factor in this game is total post count and time. I doubt that the more we post, the more we are punished for it, so the only mechanic left is time. The rage theory fits perfectly into a game like this.

I am for mass movements of kills, in a short time frame, but from multiple players, once we've decided among ourselves on a kill.

This is a severely misguided, naive and contrived position. Anyone here can heal another player; if they oppose a lynch, they can directly oppose it by themselves without the help of any "rule".

You are, again, trying to take advantage of future indecisive players. Don't you know how difficult it is to gain a consensus, especially with 5-7 scum counter-acting us? Stop trying to stall the game. If someone doesn't have an input, we carry on and kill off the scummy player without them. We don't have all day to wait for sporadically active players to weigh in.

Vote: Kinetic

Thanks for volunteering to keep the vote count populartajo. Should this system collapse, however, we should carry out our mission of purging the scum from heaven with simple, old-fashioned

pain

.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Make that 4-6 scum. Sounds about right.

[Hoopla]

You are, again, trying to take advantage of future indecisive players. Don't you know how difficult it is to gain a consensus,

especially with 5-7 scum counter-acting us?

Stop trying to stall the game. If someone doesn't have an input, we carry on and kill off the scummy player without them. We don't have all day to wait for sporadically active players to weigh in.

ABR, I think you're being particularly harsh considering how early we are in game. Discussing our options and the possibilities of the game isn't a bad thing - infact we'd probably stupid not too. I think most of us don't really know what to expect yet, or the ideal approach - don't create arguments just for the sake of it.

The last game only had 3 scum, and they happened to win convincingly, I don't think 5-7 is a reasonable figure.

[Albert B. Rampage]

You are, again, trying to take advantage of future indecisive players. Don't you know how difficult it is to gain a consensus,

especially with 5-7 scum counter-acting us?

Stop trying to stall the game. If someone doesn't have an input, we carry on and kill off the scummy player without them. We don't have all day to wait for sporadically active players to weigh in.

ABR, I think you're being particularly harsh considering how early we are in game. Discussing our options and the possibilities of the game isn't a bad thing - infact we'd probably stupid not too. I think most of us don't really know what to expect yet, or the ideal approach - don't create arguments just for the sake of it.

The last game only had 3 scum, and they happened to win convincingly, I don't think 5-7 is a reasonable figure.

The last game had 7 players, and the one before that had 12. 3 scumbags is a standard number for a 12 player setup. This game has 20 players, so 4-6 should be on the mark.

I am not creating arguments where there are none. I am singling out Kinetic for his continued support of anti-town measures.

[populartajo]

You are, again, trying to take advantage of future indecisive players. Don't you know how difficult it is to gain a consensus,

especially with 5-7 scum counter-acting us?

Stop trying to stall the game. If someone doesn't have an input, we carry on and kill off the scummy player without them. We don't have all day to wait for sporadically active players to weigh in.

ABR, I think you're being particularly harsh considering how early we are in game. Discussing our options and the possibilities of the game isn't a bad thing - infact we'd probably stupid not too. I think most of us don't really know what to expect yet, or the ideal approach - don't create arguments just for the sake of it.

The last game only had 3 scum, and they happened to win convincingly, I don't think 5-7 is a reasonable figure.

The last game was totally lost for MM's fault.
Also, its safe to assume that scum have rage points or a secret way to deal with confirmed townies. Rage points is the most logical conclusion since they have been used in the only two games.
Actually I like the way ABR is playing the game.

[populartajo]

Votecount.

Kinetic. 2(Tajo, ABR)
Hoopla 1(q21)

Not voting 17 (Cybele, Drench, DrippingGoofball, Giuseppe, Hoopla, Juls, Kinetic, Nuwen, roflcopter, Seraphim,Shinnen_no_Me,Tenchi,The Fonz,vIQleS,WaltWishbone,Xylthixlm,zwetschenwasser)

Kinetic why did you heal ABR? Heal someone else, plz.

[Hoopla]

The last game had 7 players, and the one before that had 12. 3 scumbags is a standard number for a 12 player setup. This game has 20 players, so 4-6 should be on the mark.

Ah, you're right there. Sorry about that. I think 4-5 seems about right - 6 still would feel too high.

[Hoopla]

Kinetic why did you heal ABR? Heal someone else, plz.

Even though it won't do anything, I think it still counts - if so, then there is a 24 hour recharge wait.

[populartajo]

Kinetic why did you heal ABR? Heal someone else, plz.

Even though it won't do anything, I think it still counts - if so, then there is a 24 hour recharge wait.

I think it fizzles.

Flay, Tally?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Hoopla, will you vote Kinetic?

Its important to me that you bring up any hang-ups, hesitations, or objections with us, so we can figure this whole thing out - and move away from setup discussion towards scumhunting Kinetic and his buddies.

[roflcopter]

healing everyone to one above starting hit points seems like its just going to drag this day out. didn't we already establish that long days in this game are extra bad for the town?

hurt: kinetic

die fallen angel scum die

[populartajo]

healing everyone to one above starting hit points seems like its just going to drag this day out. didn't we already establish that long days in this game are extra bad for the town?

hurt: kinetic

die fallen angel scum die

NO, NO, NO.
Rabbit, read the thread before doing retarded stuff.
The recharge is 24 hours, I dont think a first mass-healing is going to drag the day.
Town lost the other games because people like you started hurting other people, never healed them and scum distributed rage points to finish them off.
If you think Kinetic is scum, VOTE FOR HIM. If there is a reasonable consensus, we start hurting him like crazy.

[populartajo]

Heal : q21.

[vIQleS]

I know the town technically lost last time, but I still think that voting is the best tactic. Random anything at this point has a 75% chance of hitting town.

I was going to agree with this:

I don't understand the healing of players
that haven't taken damage yet. Somebody explain?

I was thinking that it would make sense to save the healing as a defense against sneak scum attacks... But at this point in the game I doubt that scum will have many rage points - if any. (Last game, it took a week before rage started to accumulate).

So - heal, umm, WaltWishbone?

And FOS: Xylthixlm

Just try to concentrate your fire on people who are already hurt, rather than wearing everyone down at once. That will make it harder for scum to suddenly kill townies using secret damage.

Actually - he's already been fosed.

Vote:Xylthixlm

I don't agree with ABR or Kinetic - but I think they both have some good points - what we need to do is sift out the good ideas and come up with a plan / system.

I'll have another readthrough later in the day and get back to you..

[roflcopter]

i did read the thread thanks

i am in favor of everyone who's pussyfooting around with fake votes just hurting him dead instead.