Mafia 105 - Caught in the Crossfire (Game Over)

[popsofctown]

Vote Count, Day 1

hiphop ( 0 )
Budja ( 1 ) - SpyreX
charter ( 0 )
crypto ( 4 ) - Hoopla - Energetic Penguin - roflcopter charter
CSL ( 4 ) - RedCoyote - sigma - Pads - idiotking
elvis_knits ( 1 ) - Vi
Energetic Penguin ( 4 ) - hitogoroshi - popsofctown - hiphop - imaginality
hitogoroshi ( 0 )
Hoopla ( 0 )
Idiotking ( 1 ) - idiotking
imaginality ( 1 ) - crypto
Infinis ( 1 ) - RayFrost
EtherealCookie ( 0 )
Maemuki ( 1 ) - Infinis
Pads ( 0 )
popsofctown ( 0 )
Psychologic ( 0 )
RayFrost ( 0 )
RedCoyote ( 0 )
roflcopter ( 0 )
sigma ( 1 ) - sotty7
Sotty7 ( 0 )
SpyreX ( 1 ) - Budja
Vi ( 0 )
Unvote ( 4 ) - EtherealCookie - Psychologic - Maemuki - CSL
Total Votes ( 24 )

With 24 alive, 13 needed to reach a majority.
Deadline is at December 1st, 11am EST

So anyway guys, sometimes i post before i finish reading a page. It's funner that way.

But reading the rest of the page, I saw Crypto quote himself and Charter's paraphrasing seems way too strong. As it actually was, Crypto never waffled and there's nothing wrong with crypto as far as the last two pages go at least.

[imaginality]

he used it to accuse idiotking of exactly the same thing - not taking a stance on anyone and leaving himself room to adjust his views to get in line with what other people are thinking.

More scum points to Imaginality for softly accusing like fifty different people of scumminess.

Not seeing either point. In that post:

People I said look scummy: EP, EK, Mae, IK, CSL
People I was ambiguous about: Hoopla, rofl
People I said look towny: crypto, charter, Pads, RC, Sotty

[crypto]

D'oh, ctually, you're right. I'm not used to the inflated number of scum in a twenty-five-player game.

Vote sticks, though, for other, more important reasons.

Choo, choo.

[imaginality]

Re. Sotty, I like her style. She makes some helpful points e.g. iso 3 iso 5, and strikes a good balance between pressuring her suspect (sigma at the mo) and still noticing and questioning other people. Her playstyle seems pro-town to me and she hasn't done anything scummy that I can see, so.

[Idiotking]

I'm also keeping a close eye on IdiotKing - his fence-sittingy post (652) gave him ample room to join the wagon but makes him look good if it goes nowhere.

I like how you say this without commenting on the fact that I repeatedly tried to point out that it was an assumption. I made it very clear that I thought it was stupid for people to vote for that reason.

[charter]

Crypto said the same thing about there being two scumteams in 577. Why didn't people pick up on it there? Makes it seem more likely that this wagon was a case of people jumping on charter's point.

Crypto didn't make that post, and it doesn't say anything about teams. Is that the correct post you are thinking of?

Vi is starting to rise fast on my scumdar because she keeps throwing accusations everywhere but none of them are sticking.

That's because none of the people who are being voted are people I particularly want to lynch.
Why, exactally, does my behavior make me

more likely to be scum

(not intentional) and

more likely to be annoying

(entirely intentional)?

That goes to everyone who has decided to parrot the question. My vote is moving around; my stances are for the most part not.

@charter: How Hoopla is obvTown to you is beyond my understanding; please show me what you see.

Because jumping all over the place with your accusations is a great way to lynch just anyone and a poor way of getting your top suspect lynched. Your play looks like it would benefit a scumyou more than a townyou. That's really suprising that no one being wagoned you wouldn't lynch. I never said anything about you being annoying, I don't think you are being annoying.

Just finished a game with Hooplascum and her play here is quite different. She is much more aggressive and is actually doing dirty work herself as opposed to just posting infrequent snipes and repeating what others say. Guess that won't really convince you of my read, but I'm not really that interested in doing so.

Crypto is also now really flailing, pretty much going for anyone he can.

[charter]

So anyway guys, sometimes i post before i finish reading a page. It's funner that way.

But reading the rest of the page, I saw Crypto quote himself and Charter's paraphrasing seems way too strong. As it actually was, Crypto never waffled and there's nothing wrong with crypto as far as the last two pages go at least.

I didn't paraphrase anything, I quoted his words. Crypto did backtrack.

His quote where he made everything large he said first, then later he said "Again, I would not be surprised if there is only one scum team" after he was called on his claimed fact.

[imaginality]

Looking back at your other reasons for voting me:

1.

I'm now seriously questioning why Elvis's one post was enough to give him a "shifting from town to scum" slant on me ...

The one post was all I mentioned in the stream of consciousness bit, but my gut read was based on having read all your posts. I can do as I did for RayFrost and expand on where that read came from but that post was more about summarising where I was at more so than why.

2.

because I was the one who brought up the case against Mae, and if you look, Imag has a scum read on Mae. If he thinks Mae is scum, why is he so quick to be leaning toward a scum read on me?

Multiple scum groups means this point fails.

3.

I find it especially dubious because I'm baffled that he finds Elvis's case against me so strong, but even without that bias this is a huge red flag. FOS: Imaginality.

Exaggeration: I didn't find elvis's case against you 'so strong', or I'd have put you in the clearly scum bracket.

[imaginality]

Crypto said the same thing about there being two scumteams in 577. Why didn't people pick up on it there? Makes it seem more likely that this wagon was a case of people jumping on charter's point.

Crypto didn't make that post, and it doesn't say anything about teams. Is that the correct post you are thinking of?

Ah, sorry, 1 off. 578:

In this game, there are two factions.

[crypto]

Crypto is also now really flailing, pretty much going for anyone he can.

And ONCE AGAIN Charter proves his illiteracy.

FOS: Imaginality.

Imaginality is very scummy, for reasons outlined some time ago.

Vote: imaginality.

Will hopefully come up with something more entertaining later today.

Your Hoopla meta is a load of crap. Her play varies immensely.

Multiple scum groups means this point fails.

Not necessarily, I don't think. But

unvote

. The guy just made a sensible argument following my attack on him. Something Mae and Elvis have not done.

[imaginality]

I like how you say this without commenting on the fact that I repeatedly tried to point out that it was an assumption. I made it very clear that I thought it was

stupid for people to vote for that reason

.

Tempted to vote crypto, but it's

a reasonable assumption to make in a game this large, isn't it?

The 'but it's...' implies that's why you were 'tempted to vote' for him. So you were tempted to vote for him for a stupid reason?

I agree that your following posts were more clearly against voting him for that reason, but the 'tempted' in that first post in the sequence sounds more fence-sitting-y.

[roflcopter]

ok crypto, i'll play along

unvote, vote: elvis_knits

[Vi]

I think I lost a post.

Crypto said the same thing about there being two scumteams in 577. Why didn't people pick up on it there? Makes it seem more likely that this wagon was a case of people jumping on charter's point.

Crypto didn't make that post, and it doesn't say anything about teams. Is that the correct post you are thinking of?

Vi is starting to rise fast on my scumdar because she keeps throwing accusations everywhere but none of them are sticking.

That's because none of the people who are being voted are people I particularly want to lynch.
Why, exactally, does my behavior make me

more likely to be scum

(not intentional) and

more likely to be annoying

(entirely intentional)?

That goes to everyone who has decided to parrot the question.

My vote is moving around; my stances are for the most part not.

@charter: How Hoopla is obvTown to you is beyond my understanding; please show me what you see.

Because jumping all over the place with your accusations is a great way to lynch just anyone and a poor way of getting your top suspect lynched. Your play looks like it would benefit a scumyou more than a townyou. That's really suprising that no one being wagoned you wouldn't lynch. I never said anything about you being annoying, I don't think you are being annoying.

Clearly I'm not doing enough if I'm not annoying you

Your accusation that I am attempting to get "just anyone" lynched falters with the part I bolded above.
With that said, I understand where you're coming from somewhat. (stop laughing, hito) I just don't know what more I can do to lynch people who

I

find more likely to be scum except to jump onto existing wagons or cause a scene to start new ones.

Just finished a game with Hooplascum and her play here is quite different. She is much more aggressive and is actually doing dirty work herself as opposed to just posting infrequent snipes and repeating what others say. Guess that won't really convince you of my read, but I'm not really that interested in doing so.

It couldn't hurt. Please supply a link.

[crypto]

Charter

I truly, deeply apologize I turn out wrong, but until further notice, my money is on two mafia teams, not one.

Again, I would not be surprised if there is only one scum team

What about the similarity of these statements do you not understand?

Imag, that could be a mental error by a townie, 20/20 hindsight, etc. But I do think IK is profoundly scummy.

After thinking it over some more, I'm back to thinking Mae is the single

best

choice, but this works too. (

Unvote

in case that last one didn't register.)

Vote: elvis_knits

.

[charter]

Crypto, enough. You are incapable of having an adult conversation, so I'm done with you. I'll just lynch you and remove your plague from our game and in a double whammy get rid of a scum.

Oh rofl, you are so funny.

[crypto]

Excellent rebuttal.

[roflcopter]

charter, does elvis seem obviously town to you?

[elvis_knits]

Why would my vote on CSL have to impress you, elvis_knits? Is this a popularity contest? Did I at least do well in the swimsuit portion? More importantly, do you or do you not agree that CSL has made less-than-useful posts thusfar?

You did awesome in swimsuit portion, however your interview was the stink.

Your vote had to impress me because you said you don't vote willy-nilly and it's your first vote of the game.

CSL doesn't really seem town to me, so in that sense I guess it's an okay vote. But there's like a hella other stuff going on more important than CSL, and you aren't very involved. Also you voted CSL and said "are you happy now, ray/hoopla?" like the vote was more to please them than because you actually thought he was scum.

Combined with my earlier dislike of how you said we can't learn anything from the confidwagon/kill. And you've really flip flipped a lot on crypto.

[charter]

charter, does elvis seem obviously town to you?

No, but she's not as scummy as others, and I certainly wouldn't follow crypto's suspicions.

Vi, here you go http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12156

[Vi]

vi is making this difficult for me. i want to believe he's town and go on a bender lynching all the bad guys with him, but he keeps doing things i disagree with.

like what

[SpyreX]

@ Everyone who is making excuses to cover crypto: why are you making excuses?

Hi, my name is unnecessarily loaded question, how are you doing today?

LOOK, can we all just come together, hold hands and lynch Budja. Its the right choice, and we all know it deep in our hearts.

[EtherealCookie]

Reading up to page 10...


Things that stand out:

Are we bandwagoning sigma? Okay.

Unvote, vote: sigma

Seemed to be an opportunistic jump on a bandwagon. It was RVS, but it just sort of rubbed me the wrong way.

And then we keep going on, blah blah blah, random RVS crap...

At least ask me QUESTIONS or something or pretend or SOMETHING. Or, we can just skip to the L-1 claim and dance because this may be becoming the awesomest and most mind-boggling wagon I've been a part of ever.

SpyreX under decent pressure, continues to not be serious and just behaves silly.

I encourage more votes on spyrex.

Why is he encouraging more votes on him, when he's just acting silly under pressure? He's obviously not taking this seriously.

C: I happen to like the RVS, as it gives a few players to get a little hilarious.
Response to c: Because RVS is fun.

Someone would love us doing nothing but random silly talk, hm? No scum hunting always helps the scum.

@SpyreX meta for Juls: The take-home point is that SpyreX-Town is, like, really obvTown.
There is nothing even halfway Townish about SpyreX's posts ITT.

Why oh why was ConfidAnon lynched if everyone keeps going on about how different SpyreX was acting? I guess it's up for me to find out when I read further!

Maemuki wrote:
CSL wrote:
ConfidAnon seems like a good lynch target, so I'm going to Vote: ConfidAnon

Why, or is it just to go with the flow?

Reasons already stated by other users

Quote:
Comments/Questions/Complaints/Alerts of aliens?

AN ALIEN (named question) IS RIGHT ABOVE YOU!

Lol

Nobody found this scummy?

Reasons already stated by other users? Really?

Well.
There's up to page 10.
I'll hit 20 tonight, maybe.

[EtherealCookie]

Oh, I knew I was going to mess up that last quote.

[EtherealCookie]

Oh. Just noticed. Confid was daykilled, not lynched.

[Sotty7]

You had stated one reason for voting me: 'anti-RVS is a scum tell.' You hadn't stated anything else. Since you were voting me at the time, either this scum-tell apparently outweighs the scumminess of the bandwagoners, active lurkers, and non scum-hunters (an argument that you just now called ridiculous, mind you, or at least you called it ridiculous when it comes to general scum-tells) or there was something else to the case that you were not mentioning. Does that make sense?

Yes my main reason for voting for you was the RVS thing but there were other factors adding into it as well. Your general reaction to your own vote and basically demanding people pay attention to it. So there was some added gut with the RVS being my foothold so to speak.

You have since implied that I value the RVS scum tell above bandwagoning, active lurking and non scum hunters something I never said. You are making that leap because you look at my vote and see it only for the RVS stand point. The way you called up these three other factors of scumminess just sits wrong with me. It's almost as if you are saying “Okay yeah, I might have done something a little scummy but it wasn't as scummy as

these

guys.”

Really since I have placed my vote on you I feel your reactions just make my vote look better and better. Calling my attacks on you tunneling while I am clearly looking at other players is just another falsehood you have posted in an effort to subtly discredit me. It's not going to work.

---

Elvis what do you think of Vi? Of Sigma? Who are your other scum reads?

That's because none of the people who are being voted are people I particularly want to lynch.
Why, exactally, does my behavior make me

more likely to be scum

(not intentional) and

more likely to be annoying

(entirely intentional)?

Like I said earlier, it just seems out of character, but then I don't think I have ever played a large game with you. Lets say you are the only one who has a say in todays lynch. Who is your pick and why? Picks two and three would be nice too.