Mini 1438: Gonzo Mafia (Scum Win)

[Wisdom]

Nacho might actually be scum, keep that in mind.

[Wisdom]

Not just you, anyone who might be townreading Nacho.
Just a feeling.

[Wisdom]

Anyone might, but I'm talking about Nacho.

[Wisdom]

bulder, elaborate on 952 please. What about Remembrance's statement makes you think I am scum?

[Wisdom]

And what does this have to do with what Remembrance said? Do you agree with him that Se-Asians is mislynch bait?

[Wisdom]

When can we lynch Fate please?

[Wisdom]

Why do you like that better than the one we're doing?

[Wisdom]

HD, I am thinking IAI might be town now. His last posts looked good.

[Wisdom]

Also quite sure that one of Nacho or Fate is scum. Or both.
Never understood why Nacho unvoted so easily after his push on Bacde either.

[Wisdom]

I'm ignoring you because I see nothing worth responding to.

[Wisdom]

It doesn't, I was mainly referring to his input on the plan.

[Wisdom]

I had not thought of the fact that after the cops report the rest of the PRs damage the town because they won't be targetted anymore, and IAI bringing it up looks like town concerned with it.

[Wisdom]

Nacho more likely than bork. Fate more likely than bork.
The only certainly genuine push on me was buldermar.

[Wisdom]

I think the best thing we can't do is only make the cops claim, so all the available docs for that night if any, will know who to protect but scum will be in the dark if there is any doc for that night or not so they have to take even higher risks.

This was your remark, which is related to Nacho's plan. What I'm talking about was related to bulder's, where everyone claims PR. So no, it was not brought up before.

In any case I'm not saying that talking about the plans automatically makes someone more town; I am just saying that his last couple of posts made me feel better about him. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe not, but not my top choice anymore.

[Wisdom]

fate's (bacde) vote

The vote was Fate's, not Bacde's. Not sure why you put the reminder that Fate is Bacde here, given that the action was Fate's alone and has nothing to do with Bacde.

[Wisdom]

Which is unrelated to what you were saying.

[Wisdom]

Do you still think Nacho is town?

[Wisdom]

I also ignored him in a newbie that I was scum

[Wisdom]

oh wow a normal votecount that doesnt feel weird

[Wisdom]

mollie, how do you feel about Fate?

[Wisdom]

mollie, how do you feel about Fate?

[Wisdom]

Look at how he is focusing on "I'm tired of people attacking obvtown!" as opposed to "SE is obvtown because...". There's no frustration, only opportunism.

I do NOT think SE is town. How do you expect me to defend/white knight/whatever someone that I don't think is town?
I can vote and unvote whoever I want, for any purposes I wish. This does not make me scum.
Opportunism? Tell me more about how any of my votes have been opportunistic. The one who's being opportunistic is you, trying to exploit people who don't know me like buldermar (and possibly Fate, if he's town) to paint me scum and push me. But it will not work.

I also ignored him in a newbie that I was scum

hehehe look at the things i wouldn't say as scum!

How the hell is this "things I wouldn't say as scum"? I can ignore you as town and I can ignore you as scum; ignoring you means completely nothing and you know it. In fact you've seen me doing it as town too.

[Wisdom]

I can be quicker.

[Wisdom]

@Rem
Bork could be, but not that likely.

[Wisdom]

It does when there is clear scum motive behind it, yes.

Oh, do explain what my scum motive is behind my votes. Quote them all and explain so I can laugh at you thinking that you can understand my motives.

Your votes have been opportunistic in that none of them go anywhere and you are setting up for the hop onto whatever wagon you like later. No vote you've made has had anything real behind it. You don't usually avoid me as town. The one time I've played with you as scum, you ignored the shit out of me even after I reached out to you. You aren't playing that game twice, but the lean towards playing that way was definitely noted. The "you are painting me as scum because people just don't understand me!!" is also a bullshit defense. I can't bring up something that doesn't exist since all it would take is a few links to diffuse my attack.

None of them need to go anywhere. They serve their purpose and I can retract them. Tell me this; do I need to have once voted someone if I want to vote him later? Won't it in fact make me more contradicting if I later vote someone who I unvoted earlier? Do I need to setup in order to hop on a wagon? Wouldn't it take the same amount of scuminess from someone to attract my vote, regardless of if I have voted him in the past or not?
Find something else to accuse me with, this won't work.
For the "ignorance game", you are blatantly lying. We've played two newbies together, in both I ignored you at some point. In one I was town, in the other I was scum. I can ignore anyone I want as either alignment and this is is no way a tell for me.
Links you want? Links you will have. Town Wisdom ignoring Nacho, Scum Wisdom ignoring Nacho
It's also funny that you want to call me scum based on meta; I assure you that I play differently each time, as either town or scum; accusing me on meta tells will be hard to do.

Mantis brought up that I didn't like being ignored, you are quick to point out that in your last scum game you decided to ignore me. Why?

Mantis brought up that you might be like that because

she

ignored you. I told her that this is not the case because there's something much more related,

me

ignoring you.

[Wisdom]

No, how many?

[Wisdom]

Me? Why would I read? I know exactly whom I voted and why. You claim you do, go and explain yourself.

Yes, they are perfectly comparable. In both I ignored questions you posed to me because I didn't feel like answering them.

[Wisdom]

Sorry... Apparently 1 of our heads didn't want to post when the 2 of use were in V/LA

I can guess which

[Wisdom]

Yes, they are perfectly comparable. In both I ignored questions you posed to me because I didn't feel like answering them.

In fact the town one is way closer to the current situation. It was early, you thought you were into something because I wouldn't sheep you and vote McD, while in fact I was holding my vote to see reactions from the town. I didn't want to answer since this would ruin it.
In the scum one, I eventually answered to you because you were getting suspicious. It was slightly different.

So yeah.

[Wisdom]

UNVOTE:

[Wisdom]

From I am innocent

Fate didn't vote IaI, did he?

[Wisdom]

What was your read on Bacde?

[Wisdom]

Will he ever come back?

[Wisdom]

The conditions won't be bad. Don't take the game personally. It's okay if people accuse you.

Yes, I'd like to hear what was your read on Bacde.

[Wisdom]

So you're voting Fate without having discussed it?

[Wisdom]

Okay. What are your reads?

[Wisdom]

The biggest one, he was planning about the plan, but he didn't use his own plan. There is no reason for scums doing this

What if Nacho realized that Bulder's plan is more exploitable(worse for the town) than his own?

[Wisdom]

Yeah, you have a point. But maybe the plans are similar enough so that only few changes had to be made. In any case, don't be so certain that Nacho is town.

[Wisdom]

What exactly do you mean by passivity btw? Can you quote a few examples?

[Wisdom]

mollie, what Remembrance said. Probably not a good idea to lynch a claimed N1 PR.

[Wisdom]

The biggest one, he was planning about the plan, but he didn't use his own plan. There is no reason for scums doing this

What if Nacho realized that Bulder's plan is more exploitable(worse for the town) than his own?

Explain your facepalm. Do you disagree that scum-Nacho would gladly follow your plan instead if it's worse for the town than his?

[Wisdom]

I still feel Nacho's was the best. So scum Nacho was really putting himself out there by introducing a great plan that might not be countered....Not seeing it.

Then why did he follow bulder's and didn't insist on his own?

[Wisdom]

hell yeah, let's go with buldey's plan

[Wisdom]

And what does this have to do with what Remembrance said? Do you agree with him that Se-Asians is mislynch bait?

bulder, you didn't answer this.

[Wisdom]

SE-asians is a hydra?

some things just weren't meant to be together

Do you plan on ever contributing anything to the game?

[Wisdom]

flynching you is the best contribution I can make atm.

the rest of my reads are still invprogress

Only if by contribution you mean "contribution to my scumbuddies".

Waiting for your reads.

[Wisdom]

HD, unless you're a 3-shot Day Cop you cannot be sure your 3 suspects are scum, and as such there is absolutely no reason to ignore all the other players and/or not ask questions to them. For all you know, you might be wrong about all 3 of your suspects.

[Wisdom]

I agree, and Remembrance is town for claiming he intends to do that.

[Wisdom]

Yeah, but as scum he wouldn't openly say that that's what he will do.

[Wisdom]

It's a fucking awful assumption because it's so extremely unlikely that Nacho somehow noticed a flaw in my plan that nobody else happened to notice.

Why? If he had already found flaws in his own plan (we're assuming Nacho is scum, I remind you), he could easily find flaws in your plan too. It's not like the two plans aren't similar.

[Wisdom]

And what does this have to do with what Remembrance said? Do you agree with him that Se-Asians is mislynch bait?

bulder, you didn't answer this.

I didn't answer it because it's a retarded question. He couldn't have been mislynch bait because he willingly did what he did himself.

Yeah but I still don't get how Remembrance's statement was related to you thinking I might be scum.

[Wisdom]

Good, but you still have to answer them.

[Wisdom]

I've never played with scum-Nacho. Why?

[Wisdom]

(Except one game that he replaced in while I was already dead, so I guess I won't count it)

SE-Asians (L-4): I Am Innocent, Human Destroyer, kuror0
Nachomamma8 (L-6): pirate mollie
Wisdom (L-5): borkjerfkin, Fate
Fate (L-4): mantisdreamz, Remembrance, SE-Asians

Not Voting: AngelusW, Wisdom, Nachomamma8, buldermar

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Deadline is April 13th at 9:30 PM EST

[Wisdom]

That's not what I am saying. Of course he proposed the plan to gain cred. But that doesn't mean that he does not have some ways that it can work to his benefit in mind. Then you propose your own plan, which might be better in that aspect for him. So he supports it. Do you find this so unlikely?

[Wisdom]

mkay.
So who is scum?

[Wisdom]

Mantis, what exactly do you find scummy about Nacho?

[Wisdom]

i find others townier, just so far. possibly i need to just hear more from him.

i don't think the plan makes him town.

You find

everyone else

townier?

[Wisdom]

What do you mean "quite a few"? You voiced intent to lynch Nacho. I ask you what do you find scummy about him and you tell me that you find others townier. If you want to lynch Nacho, this means you find everyone else townier.
But now you admit this isn't so.

[Wisdom]

Hey RachMarie ^^

[Wisdom]

49 pages on friggen D1

My fault mainly

[Wisdom]

mollie I'm starting not to like Mantis too much, am I reading her wrong again?

[Wisdom]

So I'm taking it that you don't have scumreads and you just want to lynch someone that you are unsure about?

[Wisdom]

You didn't give any reasons for your "scummish read" though. You only said that others are townier.

So again, reasons?

SE-Asians (L-4): I Am Innocent, Human Destroyer, kuror0
Nachomamma8 (L-6): pirate mollie
Wisdom (L-5): borkjerfkin, Fate
Fate (L-4): mantisdreamz, Remembrance, SE-Asians

Not Voting: RachMarie, Wisdom, Nachomamma8, buldermar

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Deadline is April 13th at 9:30 PM EST

[Wisdom]

Why should I?

[Wisdom]

What do you make of Nacho's accusation on me and the wagon that followed?

[Wisdom]

So you didn't like Nacho and Fate on my wagon. What about bulder and bork?

[Wisdom]

So you didn't like Nacho and Fate on my wagon. What about bulder and bork?

he's the one that stuck out more.

bulder and bork

have posted a bit more

, i think... and a higher quantity of their posts look townish.

Does activity equal town, Mantis? Do you want me to start telling you the same things I've told you before?

also you shouldn't have to ask why i'm asking about your vote. you know that scum like to lay back and wait to put their vote, in just the right place at just the right time. so it makes me (ppl) wary when you're sitting back not voting anyone... or in other words, not putting yourself out there to show who YOU find the most scummy.

and it would be nice if you could answer who you are at least leaning as being most likely scum.

... yes, apparently you do. You're still assuming that all scum play the same and all town play the same.
Anyway, I don't have a major scumread right now. I find Remembrance, buldermar, kuror0, IaI and HD town (not in this order), and I am null on everyone else.

[Wisdom]

Fixed tags

So you didn't like Nacho and Fate on my wagon. What about bulder and bork?

he's the one that stuck out more.

bulder and bork

have posted a bit more

, i think... and a higher quantity of their posts look townish.

Does activity equal town, Mantis? Do you want me to start telling you the same things I've told you before?

also you shouldn't have to ask why i'm asking about your vote. you know that scum like to lay back and wait to put their vote, in just the right place at just the right time. so it makes me (ppl) wary when you're sitting back not voting anyone... or in other words, not putting yourself out there to show who YOU find the most scummy.

and it would be nice if you could answer who you are at least leaning as being most likely scum.

... yes, apparently you do. You're still assuming that all scum play the same and all town play the same.
Anyway, I don't have a major scumread right now. I find Remembrance, buldermar, kuror0, IaI and HD town (not in this order), and I am null on everyone else.

[Wisdom]

Okay,

why

do their posts seem townish? Which posts exactly?

[Wisdom]

Okay, you're town, drilling over.

[Wisdom]

Guess the fact that when I am confident in my reads they always turn up wrong has something to do with that

[Wisdom]

Not really, just two votes on me atm.

[Wisdom]

This is you still not producing content.

[Wisdom]

If Nacho continues like this I might consider lynching him despite his claim.

Why the hell are you voting me again?

[Wisdom]

Also,

VOTE: Fate,

since deadline approaches and we've still seen nothing that resembles content.

[Wisdom]

The only better thing I can do is vote you.

[Wisdom]

(@Nacho)

[Wisdom]

I'm not going to have support on lynching a claimed N1 PR, so why bother.

[Wisdom]

Because you're either scum or terrible town and you're not usually terrible as town.

[Wisdom]

For starters, you're voting me.

[Wisdom]

This is not the reason I am accusing him of being scum. He asked what is wrong with his play, I had to tell him.

[Wisdom]

Ok, then please show me the reasons why you believe he is scum.

The first vote on me was nonsensical and opportunistic. His "case", if there was any, was terrible and felt contrived; all it had was dislike for my playstyle this game (my voting-unvoting pattern) and meta. I shot down everything he accused me of, and he unvoted - I thought he understood he was being dumb but no, now that we're approaching the deadline he suddenly finds another weak reason and votes me again.

And honestly, if you look at his ISO the only thing Nacho has done in this game is the plan (which he didn't follow because he supported another plan), and finding someone to push (myself). He also unvoted Fate despite his previous push on Bacde, and this was never explained; and after that he stopped caring about Fate.

And now he acts like he's tunneled town on me when he knows full well that I am not scum.

[Wisdom]

Yeah, as if my votes on various people in attempts to read them can be compared to your tunneling on me.

[Wisdom]

Literally all Nacho has done this game is

-Hi, x,y are town
-Bacde is scum, I won't tell you why
-Hey I found a great plan, who agrees?
-Oh bulder's plan is better, forget my plan.
-Bacde? Who is Bacde? Let's lynch Wisdom.

[Wisdom]

Now if that isn't scum-Nacho looking for a mislynch I'll be damned.

[Wisdom]

And in fact I don't care about his claim.
VOTE: Nacho

[Wisdom]

@Nacho and Wisdom, what do you think of IaI's recent post?

If you mean 1277 I don't find anything particularly telling about it. I read IaI as town now anyway.

[Wisdom]

I was in a game with you where we had some strong tunneling from a couple of players yet you never mention you find that scummy.

Go read that game again then, because you're having memory problems.

[Wisdom]

you contradicted in a couple of answers and overall your answers had holes on them.

Please show me where I contradicted or where I had "holes" in my answers.

[Wisdom]

As for voting a lurker; I said it many times that I don't have a strong scumread on anyone. The closest thing to a strong scumread I have is on Nacho, who prolly won't get lynched because of his claim. The deadline is coming and I am pushed to vote for one of the wagons, which are Fate and Se-Asians. Imo, Fate is scummier for lurking and refusing to provide any content, so I don't see what's wrong with my vote.

[Wisdom]

If you find Nacho scummy for not doing much this game, why you find IAI town? Imo he has done A LOT less.

lol, if we disregard the plan, what has Nacho done this game? IaI has done some decent posts which have given me town vibes, and even if he still supports that SE-Asians is scum, he's certainly not pushing for his mislynch like Nacho did, first with Bacde and now with me.

[Wisdom]

First time I've seen you name tunneling as scummy

That's a lie, and you know it. In the newbie we played together I said a couple of times that one out of Zaicon and Belisarius is scum because I wasn't buying that both were tunneling on me so hard, and I also called Zaicon scum for pushing the limits of tunneling numerous times. So don't tell me you haven't seen me being annoyed by tunneling.

[Wisdom]

lol, if we disregard the plan, what has Nacho done this game? IaI has done some decent posts which have given me town vibes, and even if he still supports that SE-Asians is scum, he's certainly not pushing for his mislynch like Nacho did, first with Bacde and now with me.

So you are saying that Nacho is scummy for trying to push lynches? Or because they were all mislynches? But it can't be because you were voting Fate aka Bacde till a few posts ago, so are you willingly voting for a mislynch?

If you don't think Fate is a mislynch then you find Nacho scummy for pushing for lynches. Which is kind of silly imo. OR did I terribly misunderstood your post?

Given the fact that Nacho suddenly stopped pushing Fate, I don't know if he's a mislynch and he probably isn't. I know that I am a mislynch though.
So yes, all Nacho is doing itt is trying to seem town by producing a plan (and not following it) and searching for someone lynchable to push.

[Wisdom]

HD, which slot of your awesome certain scumreads will you sacrifice for me?

[Wisdom]

What changed your read?

[Wisdom]

Can you explain me now, what does make you believe IAI is town or is it just "the vibes"?

Yes, it's just the vibes. More than enough given I can't get reads on half the player list.

[Wisdom]

And then you said, Wisdom will get mislynched anyway, I'm fine doing nothing for the rest of the day.

[Wisdom]

We both have 3 votes, and two people have expressed they're starting to find me scum. So I don't think so.

[Wisdom]

VOTE: Fate
Back to this

[Wisdom]

Both Remembrance and SE-Asians look town to me from that exchange.
Remembrance shows genuine intent to try and read the slot with his questions, while SE-Asians also tries to answer the questions as effectively as he can, without giving out information that might be better kept hidden.

[Wisdom]

mollie, what are your current reads?

[Wisdom]

-I see it as scum hydra. Why being a hydra if you are not even discussing your reads with the people you know have the same alignment as you? I guess the whole point of being a hydra is that one. If they are not doing it, it means there is no real interest on scumhunting (not showing in the thread and not on their QT according to Lincolm) which means scum to me.

That's a null point considering it's their first time as a hydra. It's not like we're talking about an experienced hydra who usually discusses in length.

[Wisdom]

mollie, what are your current reads?

not sure to be honest. I have borky and buldey as town and that is about the only thing I feel really good about at the moment.

Well deadline is close. Who do you want to lynch?

[Wisdom]

Does that mean you intend to push a kuror0 lynch? Because if not, that's not what I asked.

[Wisdom]

Shouldn't you be deciding though, given we have like 3 days left?

[Wisdom]

I will not lynch:
Mollie,

Do you townread her, or just because she's claimed N1 PR?

Also remind me why you townread bork.

[Wisdom]

I don't really like the fact that mollie had her vote parked on bork and then on Nacho while intending to lynch neither of them. I think town-mollie usually makes her vote jump around in attempts to read people better - in this game it feels like she isn't really interested in doing so.

But it's true that almost nobody can have confident scumreads this game. I still don't know who to lynch either.

[Wisdom]

so who do you feel comfortable lynching, bork?

[Wisdom]

@bulder
No. Nacho, mollie and Remembrance have claimed N1 PRs.

[Wisdom]

There's also RachMarie, who isn't even voting anyone yet.

[Wisdom]

Also @1481/1482 - you can always ask me for my reads instead of speculating.

[Wisdom]

To be fair, she seems town to me too. But I have no idea how she plays as scum.

[Wisdom]

Oh... I'm probably voting Wisdom if it comes town to either Fate or Wisdom.

If everyone continues to passively wait for the deadline to draw closer it will most likely be Fate or SE-Asians.

[Wisdom]

SE-Asians' last posts and esp. the exchange with Remembrance have brought them more to the town side of things. Not a confident read, but not my prefered lynch.
Fate on the other hand is still doing nothing useful and probably doesn't plan on doing.

[Wisdom]

Since the only people I'd prefer to lynch more than Fate have claimed N1 PRs, yes.

[Wisdom]

Yeah.

[Wisdom]

@Wis: Why do you want to lynch Mollie? What has she done?
You said you would give your reads if asked(I think?), can you give them?

I have already answered that - She does not seem like the town-mollie I know that makes her vote hop around and try to form reads. She feels passive and her vote has stayed on people she doesn't intend to lynch. It's still on Nacho, despite clearly saying that she doesn't wanna lynch Nacho today.

Reads:
bulder, HD, IaI, kuror0, Mantis, Remembrance => Town
RachMarie, SE-Asians, bork => Nulltown
Fate, Nacho, mollie => Nullscum

[Wisdom]

So Remembrance/Asians, scum have day talk huh? That little Q&A wreaks of it. Let me reiterate, WHEN ASIANS FLIPS SCUM, YOU ARE NEXT REMEMBRANCE!!!

what?
Do you realize SE-Asians is a hydra (which has a QT) or did you forget?

[Wisdom]

And why is that? (in regards to IaI and kuror0)

[Wisdom]

...yes? Go on.

[Wisdom]

Why are you willing to keep Fate in this game, HD?

[Wisdom]

Fate's reads almost look like he randomly put some names under each category.
No idea how kuror0 makes sense as scum with Mantis or how either makes sense as scum with me.

[Wisdom]

Also town read on Se-Asians despite the initial push.

[Wisdom]

This is horribly stupid but I have no idea if it's indicative of town or scum. This really seems like scum-Wisdom squirming out of fear away from a plan he sees as threatening because I don't see town-Wisdom so actively refusing to engage with the setup. When I put forward a couple of plans in Chosen Mafia, Wisdom was one of the main people who engaged them and used me putting plans forward as an avenue to scumhunt me from. Here he's dismissing them and being like "if good plans exist, someone would've caught it by now" which is just fucking stupid and may be scum refusing to see what could potentially hurt them.

What is this load of bullshit? First of all, what plans did you put forward in Chosen? I don't remember you mentioning any plans regarding to the setup, except "lynch me/Majiffy if we make it to lylo and chosen haven't died" or something similar, which is completely different to a breaking strategy that you're attempting to do here. Here we're talking about a breaking strategy, which I don't like at all, firstly because it looks like cheating and secondly because I am not sure if scum can benefit from it in a way I haven't thought. I don't like this stuff and I prefer just playing the game.
But it's interesting how you begin this with "I don't know if this means town or scum" yet you end up "yeah, scum". It's clear you don't want to wonder about my alignment, you want to make up reasons to accuse me.

[Wisdom]

And this? Wisdom does scumread the shit out of people to tunnel him, but that's usually when they tunnel him. He also doesn't have the tendency to pussyfoot around suspicion, which is a disease he's had the entire game. Remembrance brought up the point that scum-Wisdom would pull something like this a hell of a lot more subtly, but what I was getting at is that there's not a whole lot of options. He can go toe to toe with me, or he can toss out the "hey, Nacho could be town shit". I've been goading him this entire game to attack me directly because it's definitely my favored option, but that's not what Wisdom would prefer. When he attacks me in an underhanded way, he doesn't have much to defend. You can't make someone explain "just a feeling", right? But the fact that he has me as his TOP SCUM READ and yet can only explain me as scum by "he's voting me and I'm town" and "he hasn't done anything this game" and "he's tunneling" and "he gave up his plan too easily" while meanwhile attacking Fate far too fucking hard for something that amounts to nothing more than lurking while not really looking elsewhere speaks volumes. His attack on Fate is also reading as incredibly shallow; everything is "he's lurking, he's flipflopping on reads"... neither of which mean very much, which Wisdom knows, but he's in the position where he has to push that as scum.

Actually, I have you as a nullscum read. I am not convinced you are scum. I am not convinced anyone is scum. This is what is hard with this game. But yeah, when I see you tunneling on me like this I am going to suspect you, because you've played with me as town and all your meta arguments are bullshit. The strongest reasons I have for calling people scum right now are those simplistic ones - mollie is playing in a similar behavior to you too, as I pointed out, while Fate keeps avoiding posting content and hoping to lurk till the end of the day. I cannot "look elsewhere" because everyone else looks more or less town. You accuse me of not putting together stronger reasons, stronger cases, when it's apparent that nobody actually can this game and everyone is forced to compromise for a lynch because of the deadline. That includes you; all the reasons you can manage to accuse me of are quoting me and speculating how it makes sense for scum-me to do that - which is incredibly inaccurate and weak, but there is nothing else you can find. See how it applies to you as much as it applies to me?

[Wisdom]

As for mollie, please lynch her tomorrow if I actually get lynched. This opportunistic vote on me, without reasoning, just sheeping Nacho, after having done nothing all game herself, having sat her vote on two people she later considered town, speaks volumes. She didn't even know who to lynch earlier that I asked her, she didn't even mention me as a suspect of her, yet now she sheeps Nacho. Sure, Nacho is able to convince others to sheep but still mollie was convinced so easily; especially considering she was suspecting him earlier and arguing he "has not dropped his town tell" and other sorts of bullshit.

[Wisdom]

RachMarie, you still need to vote btw.

[Wisdom]

Remembrance your vote won't do anything on IaI.

[Wisdom]

IaI scum don't have daytalk in Diffusion. Stop speculating and stop tunneling.

[Wisdom]

ONE OF US HAZ TO BE SCUMZ

Where does this conclusion come from?

[Wisdom]

actually it might

what's iai at?

Only Remembrance's vote.

[Wisdom]

IaI prolly isn't scum, Remembrance. What you're accusing him of can be done by stubborn town too.

@HD
Remind me why you townreaded Bacde.

[Wisdom]

Given he is still trying to argue that Lincolm's claim was a scumtell, I'm more inclined to believe he's dumb town who doesn't pay enough attention to the game rather than scum.

[Wisdom]

That doesn't mean anything.

[Wisdom]

@HD
Your scumreads on his wagon do not constitute a townread on him, since you may be wrong about the scumreads or scum might be bussing.
But quote some of his posts that you read as genuine please.

[Wisdom]

@Remembrance
Yes, if we accept that he's ignoring 90% of the game (classified half the playerlist as "who the fuck are you"), then his reads make sense. Is that a player to keep alive?

@HD
Doesn't matter how many, you might be wrong about all of them.
Please do remind us which posts they were when you can, because if you're so strongly against Fate's lynch despite him being so useless then you must have a damn good reason.

SE-Asians (L-4): I Am Innocent, Human Destroyer, kuror0
Wisdom (L-4): Fate, Nachomamma8, pirate mollie
Fate (L-3): SE-Asians, Wisdom, borkjerfkin, buldermar
Human Destroyer (L-6): mantisdreamz
I Am Innocent (L-6): Remembrance

Not Voting: RachMarie

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Deadline is April 13th at 9:30 PM EST

[Wisdom]

He's not paying enough attention, but he is reading it and he has produced some content, unlike Fate.

[Wisdom]

Wisdom because he sheeped Nacho who he town read.

huh?

[Wisdom]

So you DO want to policy lynch him Wisdom? I asked him if he will do better tomorrow, pending response.

Yes, I believe I have made that clear.

I'm explaining his reads and why they make sense.

Please explain that particular read again because it doesn't make any sense to me.

[Wisdom]

@HD
Have you played with Bacde-scum before?

[Wisdom]

Do you think Bacde isn't capable of being relaxed as scum?

[Wisdom]

Fate thinks Nacho is town. And voted you because Nacho voted you, and also voted you because of his supporting evidence posts in which he said you looked like you were "cracking" additional to Nacho's vote on you.

Right. And you think that this makes sense.
Do you usually sheep whoever you townread?

[Wisdom]

Do you think Bacde isn't capable of being relaxed as scum?

I don't think he is.
I went back and looked at Banjo Kazooie Mafia for the heck of it...and nowhere does he really fart around and crack jokes like this; mostly he just talks about how awesome and town he is.

This thing that you "go and look at games" in 2 minutes really is weird.
I bet you don't.

[Wisdom]

Does NO ONE ELSE seriously see Wisdom spam posting every angle he can to discredit me?

Am I discrediting you, Fate? What part of what I am saying about you is wrong?

SE-Asians (L-4): I Am Innocent, Human Destroyer, kuror0
Wisdom (L-4): Fate, Nachomamma8, pirate mollie
Fate (L-3): SE-Asians, Wisdom, borkjerfkin, buldermar
Human Destroyer (L-6): mantisdreamz
I Am Innocent (L-6): Remembrance

Not Voting: RachMarie

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Deadline is April 13th at 9:30 PM EST

[Wisdom]

Bacde is capable! HOW DAREYOU UNDERESTIMATE HIM

That was actually my point.

[Wisdom]

What info do you want, Remembrance? We're not lynching IaI.

[Wisdom]

Please don't lynch SE-Asians tomorrow. Lynch mollie and Nacho.

[Wisdom]

So, Remembrance, it's me or Fate. Wanna lynch me? Vote me. Otherwise vote Fate again.

[Wisdom]

Fuck no they're like my untouchable super townreads

We don't care about your townreads, scum need to be lynched.

[Wisdom]

Except they're completely wrong.

[Wisdom]

Remembrance you don't make sense. As scum I would do the same as now, urge people to vote Fate, my counterwagon, not some guy with one vote.

[Wisdom]

Because he's likely town. You need to lynch scum. aka mollie/Nacho.

[Wisdom]

I have answered that earlier, you are not such a good reader after all.

[Wisdom]

What discredit are you talking about?
And why would I link? You are supposed to have read it when I posted it.

[Wisdom]

Eh no, I just thought that you aren't actually reading the games that you say you're reading. Or that you're just skimming them without getting any actual info. I didn't want to imply that this made you less town or anything.

I see no reason to try and convince you that SE-Asians is town because you're tunneling and you won't be convinced until you see him flip. I have pointed out that I started finding him town because of his exchange with Remembrance, which looked genuine to me.

And no, I'm not dodging anything.

[Wisdom]

When pressured you stop being logic as you usually are

What is anti-logic about my posts?
Do you agree that town should decide who to lynch based on HD's townreads?
I feel mollie and/or Nacho are scum, and no matter how much HD townreads them I see no reason for town to let them live tomorrow.

[Wisdom]

I don't see why you can't give your thoughts on everything Wisdom. You've probably been paying the most attention out of everyone.

What did you think of Buldermar and Bork exchange when they voted Fate?

Where did this come from; I don't refuse to give my thoughts.

Nothing in particular, I guess they decided it's Fate or me and found Fate scummier.

[Wisdom]

....Is Kuror0 really town?

Tbh I feel like he's trying to build up a reason to vote me, and this makes me start getting paranoid.
But I'll still say, probably yes.

[Wisdom]

Point stands regardless.

[Wisdom]

@kuror0
The difference is that I'll probably get lynched so I won't be here tomorrow to make you sheep my reads. While HD will still be here and try to make you sheep his.
Get this

logic

?

[Wisdom]

Long posts Wisdom. I want a long post with all your reads in them and reasons why. If I have to directly ask I'd like to know about: Mollie, Mantis, IaI, and Rach. Just restate your position on them and fill it out. I just need to think about this more.

mollie - Has put her vote on two people, bork and Nacho, only to later find them town/sheep them/accept she doesn't want to lynch them etc. Not like usual town mollie who votes everyone she feels like, and uses her votes and the reactions to form reads. Terribly opportunistic vote on me after not even having included me in her suspects.
Mantis - Probably town, however I usually read her incorrectly so don't take my word about her. My read comes from my exchange with her - I liked how she found my "drilling" annoying and how she didn't care to explain her townreads in 1242; scum-Mantis will try to appease people who question her more. I think. 1244 also looks good.
IaI - As I said already, I read him as town who doesn't bother to pay enough attention/overanalyze, and as such still has some terrible ideas like still believing that Lincolm's claim was a scumtell.
RachMarie - I don't really know about her. She still hasn't voted. But to be fair, she replaced into 60 pages or so. Don't know what to think, but certainly don't allow her to lurk without giving reads/commiting.

[Wisdom]

Not necessarily, scum can also point out scummy looking things that their "townreads" posted, and slowly change their reads on them.
And since it's me or Fate now, kuror0 basically just declared that he will vote me.

[Wisdom]

Umm sure, I am not saying that you should just blindly follow my wishes. Just don't ignore those people and lynch others who possibly are mislynch fodder.

[Wisdom]

Because it happens a lot.

[Wisdom]

Why do you townread mollie again?

[Wisdom]

1. Because she claimed Pr. I like her stories. And she seems natural enough.

She claimed PR - good, tomorrow she won't claim more PR.
You like her stories - awesome towntell, yeah.
Natural enough - Have you seen how she is when she isn't natural?

[Wisdom]

You voted me.

[Wisdom]

Read the not bold for that.

[Wisdom]

We're not lynching IaI.
If you want to compromise, vote Fate.

[Wisdom]

mollie, since you're "compromising", explain why I am a better lynch than Fate please.

[Wisdom]

For starters, because I know I am town while I don't know what Fate is. Thus he's a better lynch.
Now objectively speaking, yes, he's useless, he doesn't provide content, he doesn't bother to read the game, he openly admits he doesn't care. He has casted opportunistic sheeping votes, and he has null reads on half the playerlist - while the non-null reads are mostly unexplained.

[Wisdom]

@mollie
That thing is bullshit, because as I've said multiple times it's not easy to get scumreads this game. It's not only me who's having difficulties getting reads.

[Wisdom]

I like mollie for scum if Wisdom flips town.

Listen to this guy tomorrow

[Wisdom]

see if you would fucking NOT POST FOR ONCE I could add content like why mantisdreamz is also scum.

"I would do this but I am still not doing it"
Where is the content? You're more busy trying to make me look bad than adding content.

[Wisdom]

Also I don't get how my posting prevents you from making a content post, really. Just stop refreshing and make your post.

[Wisdom]

and I really am not liking rememory

Rememory is like the towniest player in here.

[Wisdom]

Your reasoning for me being scum is garbage, so no you're not adding content. I don't think anyone considers "oh look this guy is spamming" as a valid reason for me being scum.
Do you know what content is? Post your reads, and post reasons.
And you don't have to refresh while doing that. Just make your post. Nobody will ninja you this way.
Make sense?

[Wisdom]

why was that a bad post in the first place, wisdom?

Which post?

[Wisdom]

Fate thinks Nacho is town. And voted you because Nacho voted you, and also voted you because of his supporting evidence posts in which he said you looked like you were "cracking" additional to Nacho's vote on you.

okay how does fate have a town read on nacho if he didn't read the game it seems like I asked this at some point was there ever an answer

You tell us that. You raised an eyebrow at me when I said that Fate just put random names under each pile.

[Wisdom]

why was that a bad post in the first place, wisdom?

It had a lot of theory talk/WIFOM (town does this, scum does this) plus it annoyed me because it didn't take into account that it's totally like Lincolm to say "no your vote is good, keep it on me", which of course was normal for someone who doesn't know Lincolm. So I instictively considered it a bad post at the time.

[Wisdom]

Please don't lynch SE-Asians tomorrow. Lynch mollie and Nacho.

and why exactly?

how super duper awesome that while I was v/la you did this 180 on me cos I...voted you

Yes, you voted me, and you sheeped Nacho in doing so - Nacho that you weren't trusting, Nacho that you were voting, Nacho that "didn't drop his towntell". You didn't even include me in your suspects when I asked you who you want to lynch. It looked opportunistic, fake, and hypocritical.
Furthermore, I had already pointed out that I am starting not to like you before you voted me. So no, this is not an 180.

[Wisdom]

I care about hd's town reads cos they match my own. your case on bc is complete and utter shit and you have since only wanted that slot lynched cos fate subbed in

I am not lynching fate cos of my earlier bc read. the only thing I don't like about fate is his immediate town read on nacho

The reasons that you townreaded Bacde for are arguably as utter shit as my case on Fate, which isn't even utter shit. Bacde-scum is better than you think.

[Wisdom]

and I also have posted further about it

Yeah, you have posted that Wisdom is scum because he cannot get scumreads easily like basically almost everyone else in the game.

[Wisdom]

When pressured you stop being logic as you usually are

What is anti-logic about my posts?
Do you agree that town should decide who to lynch based on HD's townreads?
I feel mollie and/or Nacho are scum, and no matter how much HD townreads them I see no reason for town to let them live tomorrow.

fyp

lolno

[Wisdom]

and I also have posted further about it

Yeah, you have posted that Wisdom is scum because he cannot get scumreads easily like basically almost everyone else in the game.

this is still a strawman

this is still HD being wrong and useless.

[Wisdom]

Can't pretend when I actually am.

[Wisdom]

Except I didn't tailor shit. If people start acting town after I vote them, I'll call them town. mollie usually uses this way more than me and it's hypocritical that she accuses me of this.

[Wisdom]

lol HD, I wonder how many times you need to tunnel on me to understand you can't read me.

[Wisdom]

Discrediting? Show me where I discredited anyone - and don't site the "you're not reading the games" again, because that was not a discredit.

[Wisdom]

@Wisdom are you investigating your wagon right now?

wtf does this mean. I've told you who I think is scum on my wagon.

[Wisdom]

It's funny how you made three posts that start with Remember.
True Remembrance.

pedit: Four

[Wisdom]

and I also have posted further about it

Yeah, you have posted that Wisdom is scum because he cannot get scumreads easily like basically almost everyone else in the game.

this is still a strawman

this is still HD being wrong and useless.

This is a big one, for starters.

Rather than attempting to show me why I'm wrong, you simply ad-hom it. You use it to discredit me so my voice holds less weight.

Because as I said, there's no fixing tunneled HD. If I've seen you don't understand you're wrong even after wall wars, why bother?

[Wisdom]

mollie - Has put her vote on two people, bork and Nacho, only to later find them town/sheep them/accept she doesn't want to lynch them etc.

yep that is what I did.

We know.

Not like usual town mollie who votes everyone she feels like, and uses her votes and the reactions to form reads.

isn't that what I did? but thanks for saving me the trouble of disproving your point cos you just did a great job doing it for me buddy!

Nope?

Terribly opportunistic vote on me after not even having included me in her suspects.

there was nothing opportunistic about my vote and you are starting to look panicky here

Your vote was the definition of opportunism but I trust town won't forget it after I flip.

so is rach your scumbuddy?

Obviously. Because me expressing my honest read on Rach is too mainstream.

[Wisdom]

@HD
I don't defend myself against garbage, sorry. When you fix your tunneling issues and have real reasons to accuse me, call me.

[Wisdom]

mollie, since you're "compromising", explain why I am a better lynch than Fate please.

cos you smell desperate like the need to survive desperate

nacho isn't around and I have been slowly catching up so it looks like you are trying to ensure a fate lynch today but line up lynches for d2 and d3 with a sorry ass cases. I am not scum and that you are even trying to push this while I was away is very "opportunistic".

Umm nope. The only reason I want a Fate lynch is because there's no alternative, since you and Nacho claimed N1 PRs and are so untouchable today. And I don't even care if you were away or not, lol.

[Wisdom]

@mollie
That thing is bullshit, because as I've said multiple times it's not easy to get scumreads this game. It's not only me who's having difficulties getting reads.

how can you say this with a straight when you do not seem unsure at all in fact you are speaking of your reads in absolutes

this is pure misrepresentation...of yourself

Nope.
I am pretty sure you and/or Nacho are scum.
I can't lynch you today because claims.
Therefore I have to form another scumread.
Which is hard.
Make sense?

[Wisdom]

Btw did we break largest D1 yet?

[Wisdom]

Nah I post like that regardless.

[Wisdom]

wisdom is doing the exact same shit that adam did in the last majiffy game

And what exactly is that shit?