Mini 566: Justice League Mafia Game Over

[Singing Librarian]

Welcome, Sethaniel. You've come in at an interesting time, so I'd love to hear your thoughts on what's going on (and I'm sure everyone else would as well, but I didn't want to put words in their mouths!).

And thanks, Mr Gnome It All, for the deadline extension. Time to re-read the thread methinks.

[Sethaniel]

Hi, thanks for having me. (Am I replacing actr?)
unvote
just in case.

So, let me make sure I understand what's going on:

The big debate is related to mass nameclaiming? Whether or not pushing for people to reveal their "secret identities" is a sign of scum?

If you think about it from a fanboy perspective, then yeah, sure I'd love to know which characters are in the game.

But, think about the way the comics work-- the good guys have secret identities for a reason. Half the plots of those old cartoons revolve around the bad guy trying to figure out who the good guy really is. The rules and strategies of Mafia aside, it's good superhero play to keep your identity a secret.

That's my immediate thought, anyway.

[Sethaniel]

Oops, mistake already.

unvote

[Sierra]

Sorry for not posting the last few days. I'll be online plenty between now and the deadline.

Roffman's vote (thanks for your input! ) put Khel at L-2. The most votes anyone else has is 1 vote, so as it's looking Khelvaster is the lynch for today. I'd like to hear a claim from him, even though I doubt there would be enough time to avoid a lynch with the deadline so close by.

[Mirth]

Roffman voted Khel? I totally missed that.

Roffman, do you have anything at all to add? Like a reason? Because you didn't state one. At all. At least WhoMe, whose vote also bothers me, was "well, he's not my main suspect, but I don't like him either and it'll be a lynch."

Now I usually don't harass nonplayers. Except when they ignore multiple attempts by other people at questioning them.

[roffman]

sorry about the no reason, i was having trouble for the last couple of days getting enough time to even post basic things. My main reasons on voting khelv is that i think he was pushing for mass claiming mainly to dump the entire thing on caps. while i don't agree with caps methods, i believe that he is at least less scummy than khelv, and that khelv just tried to revive the whole thing to get caps lynched.

[Haschel Cedricson]

I'm on 56k dial-up Internet this week, so I may not be able to check the thread very often.

That said, thanks for replacing in, Sethaniel. I look forward to seeing more of your thoughts.

[Singing Librarian]

It seems increasingly likely that Khelvaster is indeed one of the scum, but in the interests of allowing him time to claim should he wish to, I won't add my vote to the pile, in case someone jumps in and hammers.

It seems like Capricious has been keeping very quiet as well - keeping his head under the parapet?

[Mirth]

Roffman, that's all well and good for the last couple of days, but this has been pretty much your entire time in the game.

[Mr_Gnome_It_All]

Vote Count:

roffman

(1) : Capricious

WhoMe?

(2) : Thesp

Khelvaster

(4) : Haschel Cedricson, ZONEACE, Mirth, WhoMe?, roffman

Capricious

(1) : Sierra

actr

(1) : ooba

Not Voting:

Khelvaster, Singing Librarian, Sethaniel

With 12 alive, it's 7 to lynch. Deadline <2 hrs away.

[Mr_Gnome_It_All]

Everyone went silent. They knew their time was up. Everyone turned to the one who called himself

Khelvaster

. They jumped at him, and...

Khelvaster fell dead on the ground. It was then that everyone finally saw his true form. You all recognize him as

The Phantom Stranger

. You then realize he probably would have been able to see everyone for who they really were. Too bad he's dead now.

Dead:

Khelvaster - The Phantom Stranger [Character Cop]

It is now

Night 1

. Choices are due Saturday, March 29 at Noon cst

[Mr_Gnome_It_All]

You get up after a restless nights sleep. The first thing you notice is the significant lack of others getting up. Time to check on the night's damage.

The first body you find is of

WhoMe?

. Upon closer inspection, it would seem WhoMe? had been chocked to death. It also becomes obvious what WhoMe?'s true identity is. It is the

Black Canary

, who's canary cry could paralyze anyone. She will be missed.

Soon after that you find another body. The one called

roffman

had been beaten to death. Time to look at who he is. Hmm, green clothes, green mask, empty quiver. There's no doubt it's the

Green Arrow

. But a quick search of the area reveals no arrows. Guess, he must not have had any.

After you finish with the bodies, you notice there's still one person missing.

ZONEACE

is nowhere to be found. All that's left is a note scratched on the ground that says "Gone to serve justice. Good Bye.

Atom

." Well you know the Atom was able to shrink, but how could he have gotten out of here? No use thinking about that now. It's time to try to fight some evil.

No Longer With Us:

WhoMe? - Black Canary [Roleblocker]
roffman - Green Arrow [Townie]
ZONEACE - The Atom [Hiding Townie]

It is now Day 2. With 8 alive, it's 5 to lynch.

[Mirth]

Well...I guess that publically confirms that we do have vanillas in this game.

I'm a little confused here. What is a hiding townie? I have not seen the role before, so if someone could be a dear and explain it, that would be great. (Does this mean if certain conditions are met, Zoneace can come back?

Also 2, possibly 3, kills. Choking and beating and disapearing? What do we have at play here? Mafia, SK, Vig? Was Zoneace actually killed or did he do it to himself? I'm going to guess Roffman was probably a vig kill because he was one of the most suspicious players yesterday. The other two, not so sure...that and now we can't know who WhoMe targeted (I also have to once more repeat, WTH did he have to soft claim?)...so we might have another killer loose if Zoneace did it to himself, assuming he's dead and not coming back. Hmmm...

[Capricious]

I think it's very likely that Zoneace is not dead, and will be back sometime in the future. His role is a hiding townie, and being the Atom, it makes sense for him to be able to shrink himself, and hide for a day or more, losing the ability to post while preserving his immunity.

The death by choking seems to not be the handiwork of any justice league superhero.

The death by beating might be a vig kill.

[Capricious]

It seems increasingly likely that Khelvaster is indeed one of the scum, but in the interests of allowing him time to claim should he wish to, I won't add my vote to the pile, in case someone jumps in and hammers.

It seems like Capricious has been keeping very quiet as well - keeping his head under the parapet?

I was keeping quiet because I couldn't find words to express the frustration at people bandwagoning Khelvaster and lynching him, when he was obviously town, and when I had already expressed why he was obvious town.

[Capricious]

It should be obvious now that mass name claiming was the correct play.

[Mirth]

It seems increasingly likely that Khelvaster is indeed one of the scum, but in the interests of allowing him time to claim should he wish to, I won't add my vote to the pile, in case someone jumps in and hammers.

It seems like Capricious has been keeping very quiet as well - keeping his head under the parapet?

I was keeping quiet because I couldn't find words to express the frustration at people bandwagoning Khelvaster and lynching him, when he was obviously town, and when I had already expressed why he was obvious town.

He was *not* obviously town. He was half-advocating a faulty line of reasoning, that, we can in retrospect say would have given him an advantage since he was the cop, but he was *not* playing in a very protown manner.

To your comment on choking, well, almost any superhero (save Aquaman) is probably strong enough to strangle...so it doesn't really tell us anything, but I woulg agree that WhoMe is not a vig kill because a vig wouldn't target a claimed powerrole.

And Mass claiming is still *not* the correct play. (Look at how WhoMe, who could have been useful, is now probably dead from softclaiming) Yesterday I just thought you were probably misguided. Not so sure now that you still won't stop.

[Capricious]

Read up, Khel was a rolename cop, and his name of Phantom Stranger doesn't fit with his role. Roffman was a vanilla, and his name of Green Arrow wouldve led the scum to believe he was a vig. If we had actually mass claimed, Whome? wouldnt have been the target of choice for scum.

[Capricious]

To your comment on choking, well, almost any superhero (save Aquaman) is probably strong enough to strangle...so it doesn't really tell us anything, but I woulg agree that WhoMe is not a vig kill because a vig wouldn't target a claimed powerrole.

Choking is a dishonorable way of killing, so I'm assuming that that was the scum kill.

[Singing Librarian]

Got to agree with Mirth there. If I understand Khelvaster's role correctly, it's obvious why Khelvaster was pushing for a mass nameclaim yesterday, as his own role would have allowed him to see if people were lying about who they were. However, as we now know that there are vanilla townies in play, a mass role claim as things stand is a really stupid idea. Mass name claim is less stupid it's true, but I still think it's more likely to help scum than town. Khelvaster's role combined with the nameclaim would have helped town had we known it, but on its own, not so much.

I agree with both of you that Zoneace will quite probably be able to come back, judging by the wording, but we shouldn't count on it. I also wonder whether there's any significance to both Green Arrow and Black Canary being dead, seeing as the characters have been lovers for much of their superheroic careers. Probably just freaky coincidence, though.

The night's activities pretty much make most of the questions I had re-reading the thread pointless. Thesp's unexplained suspicion of WhoMe and Roffman's general lack of helpfulness stood out.

I've noticed that it does tend to be one of the first orders of business on a day 2, but I'm not sure that an examination of everyone's attitudes to the Khelvaster lynch will help us much. I think pretty much all of us, apart from Capricious and maybe ooba, expressed a feeling that he was scummy. The degree of scumminess we each attributed to him varied, but whether we voted for him or not, the majority of us expressed suspicion.

[Singing Librarian]

EBWOP

I said "Khelvaster's role combined with the nameclaim would have helped town had we known it, but on its own, not so much." The 'it' in 'on its own' is mass name claim, not Khelvaster's role. Sorry.

- - - - -

Also, Capricious, although I wouldn't necessarily have paired the Phantom Stranger with that particular role, it does make sense. When the character has interacted with the JL, he tends to supply information to the heroes rather than actively participate. Black Canary as a roleblocker makes sense as well, but again, retrospectively. [My first post was being typed as you made your post.]

[Mirth]

Read up, Khel was a rolename cop, and his name of Phantom Stranger doesn't fit with his role. Roffman was a vanilla, and his name of Green Arrow wouldve led the scum to believe he was a vig. If we had actually mass claimed, Whome? wouldnt have been the target of choice for scum.

You can't say that. What if we have Batman around? Batman would be a *much* more likely vig than Green Arrow. (I could give more examples here as to why you're wrong, but it wouldn't be in the best interest of the town if I took this to superhero meta.) Unless you're scum yourself, you can't predict what scum would have done based on names. You also can't assume that name alone would play into it. WhoMe softclaimed having a power role. Soft claims outweigh name-based mod-outguessing any day.

Choking is a dishonorable way of killing? And beating to death isn't? What *is* an honorable way of killing then? Do you like have a post restriction not to make sense or something?

I'm also not going to go down the "if Khel were still alive road." Its pointless now that he's dead, and even if he claimed cop yesterday, I, at least, probably wouldn't have believed him. Especially since his power is very specific and begs the question of another investigative role existing. (This is something I'm *not* going to go into in depth speculating about and suggest no one else does either)

SL, that was an interesting point about them being lovers in the comics. Didn't know that...would agree that its coincidence though since Roffman's manner of death doesn't suggest suicide.

[Haschel Cedricson]

I return to high-speed Internet tomorrow, so I'll be able to reread the game then.

Until then, I'm not sure that ZONACE is coming back, because if he did, he'd be mod-confirmed town.

Other food for thought: how many scum are we looking at here? I know the standard amount is three, and if we also have an SK, and the third death makes me believe that we do, that puts the town close to a dangerous situation.

Right, be back tomorrow.

[Thesp]

However, as we now know that there are vanilla townies in play, a mass role claim as things stand is a really stupid idea.

I'm not sure how vanilla townies affect this, and I'm not sure why we should presume

any

game doesn't have vanilla townies.

Thesp's unexplained suspicion of WhoMe and Roffman's general lack of helpfulness stood out.

If you think my suspicion of WhoMe? was unexplained, I'm not sure you've read at all. WhoMe? said I didn't give reasons, but that doesn't mean he was

right

.

You can't say that. What if we have Batman around? Batman would be a *much* more likely vig than Green Arrow.

This line of discussion is specious at best, unhelpful at worst.

Until then, I'm not sure that ZONACE is coming back, because if he did, he'd be mod-confirmed town.

I agree on mod-confirmed likely-town if and only if dead scum show up in other colors than blue. (I've had a scum that could feign death in a game before.) Either way, I think such speculation is unhelpful until his return (if at all).

Vote: Sierra.

[Mirth]

However, as we now know that there are vanilla townies in play, a mass role claim as things stand is a really stupid idea.

I'm not sure how vanilla townies affect this, and I'm not sure why we should presume

any

game doesn't have vanilla townies.

Thesp's unexplained suspicion of WhoMe and Roffman's general lack of helpfulness stood out.

If you think my suspicion of WhoMe? was unexplained, I'm not sure you've read at all. WhoMe? said I didn't give reasons, but that doesn't mean he was

right

.

You can't say that. What if we have Batman around? Batman would be a *much* more likely vig than Green Arrow.

This line of discussion is specious at best, unhelpful at worst.

Until then, I'm not sure that ZONACE is coming back, because if he did, he'd be mod-confirmed town.

I agree on mod-confirmed likely-town if and only if dead scum show up in other colors than blue. (I've had a scum that could feign death in a game before.) Either way, I think such speculation is unhelpful until his return (if at all).

Vote: Sierra.

First, your reasons on WhoMe weren't all that great actually and invalidated by your persistence after he softclaimed.

Second, My comment is not anything that has not already been said (go back to the beginning of the massclaim discussion.) I am simply *yet again* trying to point out that Capricious is spouting nonsense.

Third, WTF? WHY are you voting Sierra?