Mini 566: Justice League Mafia Game Over

[Mr_Gnome_It_All]

Vote Count:

roffman

(1) : Capricious

WhoMe?

(2) : actr, Thesp

Khelvaster

(3) : Haschel Cedricson, Sierra, roffman

Capricious

(2) : WhoMe?, ZONEACE

actr

(1) : ooba

Haschel Cedricson

(1) : cicero

Not Voting:

Khelvaster, Mirth

With 12 alive, it's 7 to lynch.

[Capricious]

The bottom line is, mass claim isn't going to happen today, so none of you have to worry about it. Me and Khel were speaking our minds, you don't have to agree, you just have to find scum.

[Mirth]

Mod:

you might want to check your vote count. I distinctly remember unvoting Zoneace.

Capricious: why are you avoiding answering my questions? Also why are you misdirecting the conversation? It should be obvious that finding scum and discussion of massclaims are not mutually exclusive, as you're trying to suggest with the not-so-subtle "leave us alone, go scumhunt" you're trying to pull.

[Mirth]

EBWOP: almost missed Thesp's question there.

Thesp, the Justice League has a lot of members. Scum can just claim some random obscure member or someone not yet mentioned. What town learns from a nameclaim is names of characters, some of which might not be trust worthy. (We don't know how the mod assigned scum roles, whether they're villians or heroes randomly assigned as scum, whether they have safe claims, etc.) Scum learns the same thing, but they also get a head start on the role hunting. To use a nonjustice league example because i really rather not speculate about roles in this game: Suppose we're in a fantasy theme game, everyone has a role. Lets assume townies claim some of the following: elf, ranger, high priest, archer, farmer, etc. Even if the correlation is not one to one, it is more probable that the elf would be the doctor based on the innateness of the character name. And even if the elf is not the doctor, he is probably much more likely to be a power role than the farmer. While we can argue back and forth that character name does not necessarily give away power role, its still too much of a starting point. The scum already have a heads up on town in that they know who is on their side. Why should we do anything that might add to their already existent advantage?

[Thesp]

I see why you

think

town gains less from a massnameclaim than scum do, yet you still have not demonstrated how you

know

town gain less than scum from a massnameclaim. Can you not envision other scenarios whereby a massnameclaim would be substantially more beneficial to the town than to the scum? (I know I sure can.) What we have here is genuine

doubt

about the effectiveness of a massnameclaim. Any assertion of certainty here gives me pause.

Let this not be suggested as an impetus for massnameclaiming - I think it's too much of a gamble for us to do.

WhoMe?, who are your partners?

[Capricious]

EBWOP: almost missed Thesp's question there.

Thesp, the Justice League has a lot of members. Scum can just claim some random obscure member or someone not yet mentioned. What town learns from a nameclaim is names of characters, some of which might not be trust worthy. (We don't know how the mod assigned scum roles, whether they're villians or heroes randomly assigned as scum, whether they have safe claims, etc.) Scum learns the same thing, but they also get a head start on the role hunting. To use a nonjustice league example because i really rather not speculate about roles in this game: Suppose we're in a fantasy theme game, everyone has a role. Lets assume townies claim some of the following: elf, ranger, high priest, archer, farmer, etc. Even if the correlation is not one to one, it is more probable that the elf would be the doctor based on the innateness of the character name. And even if the elf is not the doctor, he is probably much more likely to be a power role than the farmer. While we can argue back and forth that character name does not necessarily give away power role, its still too much of a starting point. The scum already have a heads up on town in that they know who is on their side. Why should we do anything that might add to their already existent advantage?

This is not the situation at hand, the situation is that all of us are superheroes based on the flavor, some might be vanilla, some might be power. No character should be given more weight as opposed to the elf-farmer.

[Thesp]

Capricious, who are the three scum?

[Capricious]

roffman is one

after that, there is a quantum decrease in scummitude. I would be scared if you, Thesp, were scum.

and of course, Khelvaster and ooba are most pro-town to me.

Zoneace could be seen as town for his "village idiot" play.

I can also say Mirth and Whome are town for championing that mass claim is bad.

pick your own out of the 6 that remain.

Mod Edit: Compiled Multi-Post. I would suggest not doing that again.

[ZONEACE]

can we lynch him please?

and MOD can you consolidate those posts?


that was completely unnecessary.

[Capricious]

think of them as books.

[ZONEACE]

ok, well then, i'd like to throw each and everyone one at you.

[cicero]

Capricious, stop being annoying.

Zoneace is this just you. You seem profoundly rconfident about this. What will you do if Capricious comes up town? or do you care? Are you voting him because he's scum or because he's annoying?

[ZONEACE]

If he turns up town i'll go after one of the other people pushing or defending the pushing of mass claim. atleast one of them is scum.

Capricious went OUT OF HIS WAY to push something that is decidedly anti town, that is enough reason to lynch someone in my eyes, especially day one. especially after they kept pushing it after being told and shown with examples over and over it was a bad idea.

[Mirth]

Sigh. I give up on the semantics debate.

Capricious, in terms of superheroes, since you still don't get it, here is a better analogy: Lets say we have a game with Aquaman and Superman. Who are scum more likely to go after based on just name information? My point is not that it is necessary it is that even that smidgen of a hint is *bad*. This is *not* an invitation to try and guess which superhero has what powers. This is just a statement that in the Justice League universe there exist power imbalances, and it more likely for scum, once everyone has name claimed, to go after the more powerful character from comic knowledge because there will probably be a sync up.

Also you still have not answered my questions about why you were suspicious of me before and why you think Roffman is scum. Why are you avoiding them?

[Capricious]

If I were scum I would not go after superman over aquaman. I would be quite clueless about what to do. Mods are intelligent, they always like to throw twists in.

[Capricious]

why roffman is scum? he lurks for a huge while, then slides in with majority and slaps a vote down.

[cicero]

I fel like there is some unspoken role-based motive going on with capricious and/or khelvester. They want this too badly and are far too thick about it. :/

[Mirth]

I fel like there is some unspoken role-based motive going on with capricious and/or khelvester. They want this too badly and are far too thick about it. :/

I halfway second that. At first I thought Khelvester was possible scum going along with the bad idea of a dense townie. Now I'm nt too sure

[Khelvaster]

Sigh. I give up on the semantics debate.

Capricious, in terms of superheroes, since you still don't get it, here is a better analogy: Lets say we have a game with Aquaman and Superman. Who are scum more likely to go after based on just name information? My point is not that it is necessary it is that even that smidgen of a hint is *bad*. This is *not* an invitation to try and guess which superhero has what powers. This is just a statement that in the Justice League universe there exist power imbalances, and it more likely for scum, once everyone has name claimed, to go after the more powerful character from comic knowledge because there will probably be a sync up.

Also you still have not answered my questions about why you were suspicious of me before and why you think Roffman is scum. Why are you avoiding them?

And this is exactly *why* I advocated a mass nameclaim. Let's say Superman can't be nightkilled as his special ability. If I were Superman, I would nameclaim, be targetted by scum, and deny them their NK.

I'm not saying I am superman--this is just an example of why nameclaiming isn't necessarily a bad idea. Also, if we get really obscure claims, that helps us narrow down the scum (Superman probably isn't scum.)

[Mirth]

And this is exactly *why* I advocated a mass nameclaim. Let's say Superman can't be nightkilled as his special ability. If I were Superman, I would nameclaim, be targetted by scum, and deny them their NK.

I'm not saying I am superman--this is just an example of why nameclaiming isn't necessarily a bad idea. Also, if we get really obscure claims, that helps us narrow down the scum (Superman probably isn't scum.)

Unless of course one of the scum has Superman as a safeclaim because there is no Superman in the game. (This is just the kind of speculation I wished to avoid, but your blindness to the possibilities makes it unavoidable). You also can't predict that someone will have the bulletproof townie ability. More likely than not they don't. So then you're just exposing potential powerroles with no guarenteed gain.

[ZONEACE]

This is just blatant fishing/contiunued pushing of terrible plans.

unvote vote kelv

i can live with allowing cap to survive til tomorrow.

(yes i know i said unless there was a drastic revelation, oh well, i changed my mind)

[Capricious]

There doesn't have to be a bulletproof town or any sort of role for mass claim to work. We could be all vanillas, all power, or anything in between and mass claim could still be viable.

Why, if I were scum, would I kill the conventionally more powerful heroes? You can't apply character strength to strength of role in mafia. In your example, I would say it's 50-50 that superman has a more powerful role than aquaman, if he has a role at all. Read any of the past themed games here on mafiascum, and try to guess who has a power/ has a better power solely based on their names.

[Capricious]

You will find that this is possible in some games, but not in others. this doesn't appear to one of the possible ones.

[ZONEACE]

you're either retarded or scum, i honestly can't figure it out. either way you're not helpful to the town.

[WhoMe?]

WhoMe?, who are your partners?

Still waiting for some actual case on me to be presented by you. All I'm seeing so far is you randomly saying that I am scum and need to be lynched. Lets see some facts!