Mini 574: Portal Mafia: HUGE SUCCESS

[Glork]

Vote Count:

Flameaxe 2 (Ether, Machiavellian-Mafia)
Ether 2 (Gorrad, Miztef)
Machiavellian-Mafia 1 (scotmany12)

Not Voting: Sir Tornado, Flameaxe, populartajo, The Jester, Incognito, Patrick, Your Worst Nightmare
12 alive, 7 to lynch.

Day will end at or before 23:00 EDT on Thursday, March 20. No majority at deadline means NO LYNCH will occur.

[Ether]

I'm vaguely thread-literate, though my reads are kind of in flux. (read: meh, lynch whomever.)

For the sake of placing a vote, I'll

unvote; vote: Machiavellian-Mafia

for a.) already having a vote on him and b.) sneaking that "sneaky 4th vote" into his reasons for voting Flameaxe on

page 8.

The other two reasons would be valid...but due to Flameaxe's meta I'd see Flameaxe more as a policy "shit-we-have-48-hours" lynch than as a #1 suspect.

Having said that, I agree that Ever needs to give his opinions. Gogogo.

He spends his efforts voting flameaxe, with a completely hypocritical reason. He even contradicts his own point by saying flameaxe has made a few good points and that a lot of people are posting one-liners.

To me, this is scum trying to make themselves look good after the lynch happens.

Filtering my predecessor's posts indicates that his most recent vote was on M-M, not Flameaxe--just, apparently unvotes are mandatory. (Now, you

did

filter Akonas's posts on your own to make sure he was indeed low on content, right?)

[Flameaxe]

Hey. St. Pattys weekend is over, and my hellish weekend of no-fun is over. I should get a chance to catch up tomorrow, but then I'm going out of town on Wed.

Spring Break, woooooo.

[Patrick]

Hi Ether. You got any opinion on the early YWN wagon and the Gorrad wagon/claim?

Having said that, I agree that Ever needs to give his opinions. Gogogo.

Eh, his posts aren't that great but there are several worse offenders to my mind. At least I know who he suspects.

Populartajo, I find it irritating how you seem to be tagging on the, "Hey guys, chill, I wasn't attacking you that hard" disclaimer onto alot of what you say rather than giving a straight answer. We've already established that you weren't saying we had to be absolutely scum. But nevertheless you still worked in the suggestion, and I haven't seen you back it up with anything substantial.

What inconsistency? I dont find any.

This is a silly evasive thing to say coming up to deadline. He's clearly explained what he thinks the inconsistency is in your play. Now, you might not agree with him, and you might have a reason why you say the two situations were different, but it's pretty obvious what he wants explaining, and this answer looks almost deliberately obtuse. I don't know if you're scum or you just have a playstyle that drives me nuts, but I don't like it.

Vote: populartajo

. Who do you think is a good lynch today?

I could go for Ether as well, albeit with some guilt because she's just replaced in. Incognito, have you got any further read on Flameaxe?

[Ether]

Tajo's hyperdefensiveness doesn't bother me. His one-twos did--but they were so over the top that they read more as an attempt to intimidate people off of the Gorradwagon than to get Gorrad lynched as town and prepare a Patrick/Incognito/Miztef lynch for tomorrow. Especially because he didn't vote Gorrad himself. If Gorrad's town, I can't see the one-twos as sinister, either.

Too hurried to read into Gorrad's wagon now, but I probably won't anyway without some alignments or results from him or a chance to interrogate him or something.

As for YWN, my answer is again "no, not really." Wait,

did

we ever get out of him why he voted Incognito instead of Flameaxe?

How's what I

have

done?

I could go for Ether as well, albeit with some guilt because she's just replaced in.

You know, I'll have settled into perfectly readable behavior by Day 2.

[Miztef]

I'm not sure if I like the tajo lynch yet, but deadline is approaching rapidly, so I would be willing to go there.

Patrick's statement about Ether is also true for me, I think killing a replacement too quickly doesn't help much, and the evidence against akonas wasn't all that fantastic anyways.

I think the MM vote is a little off the mark. I will lynch him if it comes down to it, but I really don't know how strong the evidence against him is.

[Incognito]

I could go for Ether as well, albeit with some guilt because she's just replaced in. Incognito, have you got any further read on Flameaxe?

I would not be lending my vote to a Flameaxe wagon. I know he hasn't really contributed much in typical Flameaxe fashion, but I'm actually getting a decent vibe coming from him and the stances he's taken with some of the arguments.

Tajo's hyperdefensiveness doesn't bother me. His one-twos did--but they were so over the top that they read more as an attempt to intimidate people off of the Gorradwagon than to get Gorrad lynched as town and prepare a Patrick/Incognito/Miztef lynch for tomorrow. Especially because he didn't vote Gorrad himself. If Gorrad's town, I can't see the one-twos as sinister, either.

I disagree with the above and have a much more sinister read of populartajo. After reading through what populartajo mentioned around the time of the Gorrad-wagon, I don't get the feeling that he was attempting to intimidate anyone off of his wagon at all - I feel like he was ready and willing to lend his support to it:

Basically I agree with a Gorrard lynch. I havent liked for a while and his buddys (Flameaxe and scotmany) seem to have taken a vacation to brawl lands.

But, I'd like a VC before, please.

Asking for the VC before voting seemed like a really bad attempt to seem pro-town to me, especially considering everything he mentioned before asking for the vote-count (voicing concern over Incog, Patrick, and Miztef on the possible Gorrad-town wagon but ready and willing to lend support to it after receiving a vote count?).

Having said that, I agree that Ever needs to give his opinions. Gogogo.

Who's Ever?

Vote: populartajo

I agree with Ether's post 226 with respect to Mach-Mafia and would be willing to lend my vote to lynch him as well but would prefer a tajo lynch.

[Patrick]

How's what I have done?

*Shrug* I haven't paid that much attention to M-M. I agree that he's been taking the Flameaxe 4 votes thing too far, and that on page 8 it shouldn't be a real factor at all. Haven't seen anything else notable from him, and he has at least weighed in on a few other issues. I'd vote him if necessary, but without too much excitement. I can identify with reads being in flux, as I've been feeling rather wishy washy since Gorrad claimed. I'll check your comment on Miztef a bit later, because this background noise at the moment is making it difficult to think straight.

You know, I'll have settled into perfectly readable behavior by Day 2.

Heh.

Incognito, Ever refers to scotmany12.

[Sir Tornado]

Ok, I pretty much believe the Gorrad claim, because I can't see someone claiming Gunsmith in a game like that due to it being a very uncommon role. (This could be WIFOM, but it's good enough for me right now).

I would very much like to see if M-M plays like this in all of his games. I can't see why placing a 4th vote on someone in random voting stage is decidedly a scum tell.

At this point, I don't think Populartajo or Flameaxe (the leading wagons) are scum, although I can't see how Patrick over reacted as Populartajo claims he did.

Miztef, do you always refer a lynch as "kill" as you did in 230?

I think, at this point, Patrick and Gorrad seem to be most likely town. No reads on Flameaxe, populartajo and Scot, neutral on YWN, The Jester and Incognito. Ether is slightly scummy due to her predecessor's play. Slightly scummy on MM.

Miztef is a bit problematic case for me. I have played with him before, and he contradicted the hell out of himself then (he was town), so I am giving him a lot of benefit of doubt here.

[Patrick]

Miztef, did you isolate all of Akonas's posts?

Miztef is a bit problematic case for me. I have played with him before, and he contradicted the hell out of himself then (he was town), so I am giving him a lot of benefit of doubt here.

Similar issues here. He's tweaked my gut all game, because he seems like he's trying hard to fit in and buddying up a little, and he does seem to contradict himself a bit, but he gave me the exact same feeling in Communique Mafia and he was a townie there. I might look for games where he was scum if I get time, but no promises.

[populartajo]

Populartajo, I find it irritating how you seem to be tagging on the, "Hey guys, chill, I wasn't attacking you that hard" disclaimer onto alot of what you say rather than giving a straight answer

Answer to what? Really, ask me any questions (or quote them) and Ill give you an answer.
And it isnt a disclaimer. Its just simple, why are you guys suspecting me if the only thing I did was comment in possible suspicions. What about if we're wrong today? How can we find the truth? Easy, lets suspect the ones who were so in favor of doing the wrong thing.
And before you say, "OMG, you said that, you're scum", Im saying lets suspect, not lets lynch.
Fine?

This is a silly evasive thing to say coming up to deadline. He's clearly explained what he thinks the inconsistency is in your play. Now, you might not agree with him, and you might have a reason why you say the two situations were different, but it's pretty obvious what he wants explaining, and this answer looks almost deliberately obtuse.

Why are you basing your suspicions in a conversation and in a current disagreement with another player? I havent seen him asking about this quote of mine. I dont see any inconsestincy and if he wants to ask then let him ask me, Ill be happy to answer.

I don't know if you're scum or you just have a playstyle that drives me nuts, but I don't like it.

Its prob the playstyle. Im still trying to define it. For now, I dont like something, I throw it at the table.

Vote: populartajo. Who do you think is a good lynch today?

WARNING. Theory time;:
Pick one of the followings groups. Big possibility of clearing the group if any of them comes up town. At this moment, and at the rate we're going, I think that we wont lynch a scum today, but lets try to pick the best lynch for today.
Group A : Patrick, Incognito, Miztef
Group B : Flameaxe, Gorrad, Scotmany, maybe Sir Tornado
Group C : M&M, YourWorstNightmare
Group D: Jester and Ether (still dont have a read on them)
You can add this to the current schedule of town or simply ignore it, but I think at this point of the game is a pretty interesting suggestion.
............

I disagree with the above and have a much more sinister read of populartajo. After reading through what populartajo mentioned around the time of the Gorrad-wagon, I don't get the feeling that he was attempting to intimidate anyone off of his wagon at all - I feel like he was ready and willing to lend his support to it:

I was willing to lend my support to it, I found it a decent bandwagon for reasons stated but I simply wanted a VC before voting. Is it wrong to ask for a vote count? I dint know it.
If I really wanted him lynched I simply could have written vote:Gorrad and it would have been fine. But, now you're suspecting me for asking VCs and not voting him? Really?

[Miztef]

Miztef, did you isolate all of Akonas's posts?

Miztef is a bit problematic case for me. I have played with him before, and he contradicted the hell out of himself then (he was town), so I am giving him a lot of benefit of doubt here.

Similar issues here. He's tweaked my gut all game, because he seems like he's trying hard to fit in and buddying up a little, and he does seem to contradict himself a bit, but he gave me the exact same feeling in Communique Mafia and he was a townie there. I might look for games where he was scum if I get time, but no promises.

I think your the 2nd person to ask that... why wouldn't I have, and why does it matter. For clarity's sake, I did isolate them, are you saying that may have clouded my view?

I like to say a lot of stuff, so yeah, I do contradict myself I suppose. Is there anything in particular you find scummy about me in this game?

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

For the sake of placing a vote, I'll

unvote; vote: Machiavellian-Mafia

for a.) already having a vote on him and b.) sneaking that "sneaky 4th vote" into his reasons for voting Flameaxe on

page 8.

The other two reasons would be valid...but due to Flameaxe's meta I'd see Flameaxe more as a policy "shit-we-have-48-hours" lynch than as a #1 suspect.

Your point b.) is a clear misrepresentation. I have made it clear throughout the game that one main reason for my suspicion on flameaxe is the 4th vote thing, so there was no "sneaking" involved at all on my part. And since I have never played with flameaxe, I don't see the meta arguments defending flameaxe holding water.

I'm not sure if I like the tajo lynch yet, but deadline is approaching rapidly, so I would be willing to go there.

Patrick's statement about Ether is also true for me, I think killing a replacement too quickly doesn't help much, and the evidence against akonas wasn't all that fantastic anyways.

I think the MM vote is a little off the mark. I will lynch him if it comes down to it, but I really don't know how strong the evidence against him is.

1. If you are against lynching Ether, why do you stil lhave vote on her?
2. From are first and third paragraph, it seems like you are willing to along with any lynch without firm conviction. Do you find no one worthy of a lynch right now?

WARNING. Theory time;:
Pick one of the followings groups. Big possibility of clearing the group if any of them comes up town. At this moment, and at the rate we're going, I think that we wont lynch a scum today, but lets try to pick the best lynch for today.
Group A : Patrick, Incognito, Miztef
Group B : Flameaxe, Gorrad, Scotmany, maybe Sir Tornado
Group C : M&M, YourWorstNightmare
Group D: Jester and Ether (still dont have a read on them)

I don't see how players who have similarities in the game so far would all be town if one of them in the group is town. For example in Group B, if Gorrad is protown gunsmith, I can easily see at least one the other three relatively inactive players as scum.

Wagons:
I'm buying: Flameaxe for reasons discussed tons of times before
I'm selling: Ether for just replaced into game, populartajo for his recent sufficient defense
I could be buying: Relative non-contributors, most notably scotmany and the jester

For my final comment, I find it very disconcerting that half the town is

not voting

when there is only

2 days left until deadline

. Votes elicit vital discussion and provide useful information for current and future scumhunting. Anyone not voting right now is hurting the town.

[Gorrad]

I find C. most likely, then B. minus myself, then D., then A. I also like how you left yourself out of all those groups then asked people for opinions.

[Ether]

I don't get the feeling that he was attempting to intimidate anyone off of his wagon at all - I feel like he was ready and willing to lend his support to it:

Basically I agree with a Gorrard lynch. I havent liked for a while and his buddys (Flameaxe and scotmany) seem to have taken a vacation to brawl lands.

But, I'd like a VC before, please.

I see your point on this bit. Eh. I'd go along with a Tajolynch, I guess, but it still seems odd that a newbie would try to throw doubt on you and then get so

surprised

by the recoil.

WARNING. Theory time;:
Pick one of the followings groups. Big possibility of clearing the group if any of them comes up town. At this moment, and at the rate we're going, I think that we wont lynch a scum today, but lets try to pick the best lynch for today.
Group A : Patrick, Incognito, Miztef
Group B : Flameaxe, Gorrad, Scotmany, maybe Sir Tornado
Group C : M&M, YourWorstNightmare
Group D: Jester and Ether (still dont have a read on them)
You can add this to the current schedule of town or simply ignore it, but I think at this point of the game is a pretty interesting suggestion.

I don't think that this these groupings can clear anyone.

Answer Patrick's question.

For clarity's sake, I did isolate them, are you saying that may have clouded my view?

I asked because you accused my predecessor of hypocrisy over his reason for voting Flameaxe--but a glance through Akonas's posts would have shown that he was trying to vote M-M at the time, and just making an observation.

(Incidentally, hypocrisy is not a scumtell.)

I have made it clear throughout the game that one main reason for my suspicion on flameaxe is the 4th vote thing, so there was no "sneaking" involved at all on my part. And since I have never played with flameaxe, I don't see the meta arguments defending flameaxe holding water.

The use of the word "sneaking" was just to make me look ironic and witty; this defense does not counter my actual point, which is that you're still using a random fourth vote as an attack on someone two weeks into the game.

Even if you haven't played with Flameaxe, other people have. (This doesn't really prevent you from being stubborn town, but I still don't like it.)

I'm selling: Ether for just replaced into game,

Did you seriously just try to paint me as a mercy lynch?

Like,

seriously?

Wagons:
I'm buying: Flameaxe for reasons discussed tons of times before
I'm selling: Ether for just replaced into game, populartajo for his recent sufficient defense
I could be buying: Relative non-contributors, most notably scotmany and the jester

Buying/selling should be switched here:

Ether 2 (Gorrad, Miztef)
Machiavellian-Mafia 2 (scotmany12, Ether)
populartajo 2 (Patrick, Incognito)
Flameaxe 1 (Machiavellian-Mafia)

Not Voting: Sir Tornado, Flameaxe, populartajo, The Jester, Your Worst Nightmare

[scotmany12]

I really haven't seen him do much scumhunting either. He has mostly focused on pushing this 4th vote thing. Everyone but two on his analysis are either neutral or protown. So yeah, happy with my vote on him now.

I could say pretty much the same things about you, scotmany:

I really haven't seen scotmany do much scumhunting either. He has only focused on me pushing this 4th vote thing. At least I announce my positions on everyone , while he has no positions on anyone else except me, so I can't even tell who scotmany feels neutral or protown about. So yeah, happy to

FoS: scotmany

now.

Yes, but you not scumhunting wasn't part of my attack on you. You attacked flameaxe for what you are also guilty of. That is why I said you were hypocritical with your attack on him.

I encountered a gunsmith in a large normal once. I don't doubt Gorrad's claim right now. I'm still ok with a lynch on MM. Mainly, I find his attack on Flameaxe opportunistic and

hypocritical.

See, reading is key. Anyways, Ether, do you want like me to do a list on the players in the game? Pretty sure you know I don't do that. Anyways, I plan on rereading tajo sometime. No time really now.

[Ether]

I did not know that, actually, but I didn't explicitly request a List. Still give opinions on a wider variety of people.

(On a note unrelated to my own vote, hypocrisy continues to not be a scumtell.)

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

Scotmany: I don't see how I'm hypocritical with respect to my attacks on flameaxe:
Did flameaxe make a sneaky and suspicious vote? Yes
Did I do that? No
Did flameaxe post mostly fluff? Yes
Did I do that? No
Is flameaxe not helpful in scumhunting? Yes, zero serious votes or FoSes
Am I not helpful in scumhunting? No, I have made clear who I'm suspicious of, plus I expressed positions on everyone else.

Ether:

you're still using a random fourth vote as an attack on someone two weeks into the game

The whole point of my fourth vote suspicion was that I thought flameaxe's fourth vote was not random.

Did you seriously just try to paint me as a mercy lynch?

No, I believe in replacements having a clean slates unless there is overwhelming evidence against predecessors. Since obviously there isn't for Akonas, I don't find you suspicious right now and thus don't support your lynch.

[Incognito]

I disagree with the above and have a much more sinister read of populartajo. After reading through what populartajo mentioned around the time of the Gorrad-wagon, I don't get the feeling that he was attempting to intimidate anyone off of his wagon at all - I feel like he was ready and willing to lend his support to it:

I was willing to lend my support to it, I found it a decent bandwagon for reasons stated but I simply wanted a VC before voting. Is it wrong to ask for a vote count? I dint know it.
If I really wanted him lynched I simply could have written vote:Gorrad and it would have been fine. But, now you're suspecting me for asking VCs and not voting him? Really?

*HEAD-DESK* *HEAD-DESK*

No comment.

I see your point on this bit. Eh. I'd go along with a Tajolynch, I guess, but it still seems odd that a newbie would try to throw doubt on you and then get so

surprised

by the recoil.

What makes you think he was just surprised and not some other such emotion?

I find C. most likely, then B. minus myself, then D., then A. I also like how you left yourself out of all those groups then asked people for opinions.

I lol'ed.

[Miztef]

ok so, what do we have here?

Flameaxe: Unhelpful but no real evidence for being scum (mostly because his meta is unique)

Tajo: good lynch for today, there has been inconsistencies in his play and evidence for scummy behavior.

Ether: I'm liking him. I'm thinking pro-town for now. No lynching him (hence,

unvote

)

MM: Evidence against him is overused and shallow, Neutral for now.

Scotmany: Not liking his behaviour. Not giving out suspicions and giving out low levels of content. Not sure if this is scummy, but it is unhelpful at the least.

Sir Tornado: Although a bit lacking in content, I find what he does have to be well thought out. I'm leaning towards scummy (accurate and lurky) but I like him for now.

Those seem to be the people of interest right now , and that's what I think about em.

I'll vote shortly.

[populartajo]

*HEAD-DESK* *HEAD-DESK*
No comment.

Time for unvoting, I guess. Any more questions or doubts?

I don't think that this these groupings can clear anyone.

I see where you (and others) are going. Let me explain this grouping.
a) First of all, its obviously not 100% accurate and is going to varya ccording to the course of the game. Of course I can be wrong, like with Gorrad, assuming we're believing his claim. I should have added in that group, "Gorrad is an special case since we're puting him in the town side"
b) This list is based in some interactions D1. You can read my posts to find some.
c) This list is not based in similarities in the game. Simply, its made of interactions and bizarre agreements that pinged my scumdar. Like Flameaxe and Scotmany going hard against M&M, or Incognito and Patrick going hard against everything that moves, or M&M and YWN going after their lynchers.
d) As I said, we can simply ignore it. It was only a suggestion and it'll be in my notes for the time necessary.

I find C. most likely, then B. minus myself, then D., then A. I also like how you left yourself out of all those groups then asked people for opinions.

Duh. Why would I put myself in my own scumhunting analysis?

I don't see how players who have similarities in the game so far would all be town if one of them in the group is town. For example in Group B, if Gorrad is protown gunsmith, I can easily see at least one the other three relatively inactive players as scum.

Good point.

[populartajo]

Tajo: good lynch for today, there has been inconsistencies in his play and evidence for scummy behavior.

Again, what inconsistencies? what scummy behavior?
Im not a good lynch. seriously. You came late to the party.

I'm not sure if I like the tajo lynch yet, but deadline is approaching rapidly, so I would be willing to go there.

Pattern? Can you explain what do

you

think, whats

your

case against me?

[Gorrad]

Ether's better than Akonas, for sure.

Unvote, Vote: M-M

. I'm willing to give Akonas the terrible Townie doubt, but only so far.

IGMEOY: Ether

.

[Miztef]

Alright, because tajo is at least being active and useful, I will not go into further detail about his lynch. I think that's better to wait until tommorow at least.

Today, I will agree to a

unvote vote: M-M

lynch.

[Ether]

Tajo, still who's scum?

No, I believe in replacements having a clean slates unless there is overwhelming evidence against predecessors. Since obviously there isn't for Akonas, I don't find you suspicious right now and thus don't support your lynch.

Oh. Um. I misinterpretted "selling"; fair enough.

What makes you think he was just surprised and not some other such emotion?

I'm unsure what you're getting at. His "hey, don't take this so seriously!" is sloppy enough to make me think he wasn't anticipating a backlash, which I find townish, but I don't think that that answered your question.

Ether: I'm liking him. I'm thinking pro-town for now. No lynching him (hence,

unvote

)

(I am a girl Cake Core.)

Tajo: good lynch for today, there has been inconsistencies in his play and evidence for scummy behavior.

Again, what inconsistencies? what scummy behavior?
Im not a good lynch. seriously. You came late to the party.

[...]

Pattern? Can you explain what do

you

think, whats

your

case against me?

Alright, because tajo is at least being active and useful, I will not go into further detail about his lynch.

You should answer him.

You should answer Patrick and me, too.

unvote; vote: Miztef

; I'll still be around to secure a lynch.