With 10 alive it takes 6 to lynch.
zeddicus prodded.
i agree with this.Pink Puppy wrote:I think you should read all of a person's posts before putting the hammer on!
I also think the hammer was a bit hasty.windkirby wrote:I don't like the fact that VoD kills moz without seeming all that convinced that he's scum, just that he's sick of dealing with him. Not pro-town in the least.
hadn't i recently said that it was lynch -2?VoD wrote:Guys I didn't realize that that was the hammer
Truth.Cephrir wrote: The darkdude thing is Wifom. So is the fact that he brought it up.
This is basically what i was thinking as well.PinkPuppy wrote: Just because something is an obvious scum action doesn't mean scum try not to do it. They can do it and then say, "oops I didn't realize" or "do you really think scum would be that stupid?" Both arguments are WIFOM because we can't know their motivation.
If we let people get away with scummy play, then we really decrease our ability to tell scummy play from townie play.
why exactly? you said this when he had three votes on him, and yours wasn't. seems suspicious.darkdude wrote: That said I agree with Pink Puppy. I want VoD to claim.
You reminded me of something. Darkdude says he agrees with me that VoD should claim. Except I never said that. He was at 3 votes at the time and that is not the time to claim. I was still discussing things. People shouldn't claim until they're closer to lynch... when most of the town wants a claim.zeddicus wrote:why exactly? you said this when he had three votes on him, and yours wasn't. seems suspicious.darkdude wrote: That said I agree with Pink Puppy. I want VoD to claim.
I am torn between voting for VoD or voting for darkdude.
windkirby wrote:The sudden hammer without a lot of posting beforehand just seems like eager mafiaman who can't say no to finally being able to get out his gun.
darkdude wrote:I find VoD just slightly suspicious, again for using jokes for the deciding vote.
So @ those quoted above are you voting for me because you belive I was aware of putting the hammer on moz and made up the "I didn't realize it was the hammer" as a defence, PLEASE ANSWER! and If you have other reasons/accusations I would like to know so if I havent already explained/defended myself I can do that.Pink Puppy wrote:I don't so much mind that you put the hammer on mozsuggs... or even that you voted him. I only mind that you were happy to lynch someone without reading all their posts, and that you sounded amused/excited. That attitude seems off to me.
"it was an accident" doesn't hold much weight either. It's not much of an explanation, and it doesn't take my suspicion off.thevampireofdusseldorf wrote:hold no more weight than my "I didnt realize that it was the hammer", they are done post event with the knowledge that moz is town, but in these cases niether of them were questioned about there involvment in mozs death and both were pressuring me for my part after I had already exlained my actions.
fair enough. But you should have checked--not to to so seems quite irresponsible.thevampireofdusseldorf wrote:I was genuinely wishing for a response from him, for me to decide if I thought him town or scum.
Wait... but people don't habitually do things that they know will get them labeled as scum. Yes, they do some things habitually, and those are definitely important to look for. But sometimes it's the one slip where scum gives him/herself away.QuantumFruit wrote:@Akonas: I wasn't saying that VoD's post timing wasn't potentially suspicious. It's something to look into if its habitual, etc., but I don't think in and of itself it was necessarily scummy. People make mistakes (yes, that's a truism), and I don't think his action merits a vote. (So, I'm not voting for him.)
I don't see a problem; he's putting a vote on, and we don't want a quicklynch.vikingfan wrote:vote darkdude. I don't like the way he's consistently pressuring vod, especially to claim, without putting his vote where his mouth is.
Ding ding ding, winner!QuantumFruit wrote:@Akonas: Well, did you want him (VoD) to lie?
And fine, they don't always do something habitual. What I'm saying is, if he did this multiple times, it'd be scummy and I'd vote for him. Doing it once is a reasonable mistake - plus, you know my timing with witticisms. Very inopportune. So, I understand VoD and that's that.
Akonas wrote:"it was an accident" doesn't hold much weight either. It's not much of an explanation, and it doesn't take my suspicion off.
I have always claimed I thought it was the L-1 vote (a terrible mistake and I really dont know why I thought that but we all have mental lapses) and I knew it was going to be hard to convince anyone of this but I believed it better to tell the truth about the situation and try my best to defend it than to make up a more convicing defense.QuantumFruit wrote:@Akonas: Well, did you want him (VoD) to lie?
I dont agree with that as a blanket statement: I think both scum and town have equal reason to be cautious especialy around lynch time: scum so as to try and avoid suspicion and town so as to be confident they have got scum.windkirby wrote:The reason my vote is on you because even if it was a mistake as you said, scum is much more likely to be so irresponsible.
So I feel my votees are playing it from both sides:thevampireofdusseldorf wrote:are you voting for me because you belive I was aware of putting the hammer on moz and made up the "I didn't realize it was the hammer" as a defence, PLEASE ANSWER!
Not sure I get this do you mean scum wouldn't get sloppy?QuantumFruit wrote:@VoD: I think scum would be responsible with that sort of thing in fear of being called out on it. Scum would get sloppy.
Thank you for at least trying to answer my question, but you are still using the double contradictory situation aproach to judge me as scum, basicly judging me as scum regardless of if I knew or not, but saying you are more inclined to believe the view I knew.windkirby wrote:VoD, I do not believe one way or the other, but I am more inclined to believe that you did not know you were hammering. However, I still think that it's a pretty scummy thing to do to not even check enough to know you're hammering.
I believe this is what Pink Puppy is doing along with a few others "trying to have it both ways". As I have explained.Pink Puppy wrote:About the nuances....I generally feel that "trying to have it both ways" is scummy, because it signals a person who is molding their suspicions to fit whatever person they want to target. Like they are picking the target first, and worrying about reasons later. Which is what a townie would never do.
You dont mind I hammered a townie or voted for him but you take issue at the nature of the post (jokey) and (your interpretation of) one line in it. Again you are still insinuating I knew I was hammering by "you were happy to lynch"Pink Puppy wrote:I do agree context is important though too. I don't so much mind that you put the hammer on mozsuggs... or even that you voted him. I only mind that you were happy to lynch someone without reading all their posts, and that you sounded amused/excited. That attitude seems off to me.
Now we have a change with ok if it was accidental I will attack you from this perspective. I had already said I thought it was the L-1 vote so I was obviously aware moz was close to a lynch but I had misscounted while skimming over the posts before making mine.Pink Puppy wrote:Even if you didn't know you were hammering, you HAD to know that a lot of people were voting mozsuggs and he was getting close. That might be the time to like... CHECK to see how many votes the guy has on him.
Now it doesnt matter which is more likely as I'm branded scum either way, either I did know and hammered or I thought it was the L-1,Pink Puppy wrote:I still feel the same way, whether is was the lyncher or the L-1, whether you knew it was or not.
Yes you can't "know" but you can make an informed decision based on observations (as others have done) as to what is more likely but as I see it you wish to say I can't know so you can throw suspicion from both points of view.Pink Puppy wrote:he didn't realize his vote was the hammer. And that argument is WIFOM because I can't ever know his motivation.
And you are certainly right... I do assume that you knew you were hammering and I have continued to do so. Maybe that isn't fair to you. But I just can't see any way that it makes sense that you DID NOT KNOW. I try to see it from your point of view, and it just makes so much more sense to me that you knew. And I don't like the argument that I must be scum if I don't just "give you the benefit of the doubt."Pink Puppy wrote:vote: thevampireofdusseldorffor putting the hammer on althoughI think you should read all of a person's posts before putting the hammer on!VoD wrote:Mozsugs, I dont feel like reading through all your recent posts just yet, I may go back to look over them for amusment at some stage.
And saying he might read M's posts sometime for amusement... sounds like he's having too much fun here. I would expect VoD to atleast be a little nervous about hammering. It just seems like he can't contain his excitement.
How are the mafia "turning down one lynch proposal after another" if VoD is the only wagon we've had today? There are only 2-3 of them, y'know (probably).darkdude wrote:I think VoD should claim to at least give us something to work on. Right now I feel as if we've been going over the same thing again for weeks. VoD seems most suspicious right now, so I think it's a good idea for me to ask for a claim. The resulting reactions could be what we need.
Perhaps for some reason I am not reading well enough, but all I see is defense after defense.Everything in mafia is defendable, and WIFOM is so common that it makes little sense not to act on something just because it could go on both ways.In this situation I believe we have to think simple and avoid over analyzing things. Because the way I see it is that the mafia is currently confusing the town by turning down one lynch proposal after another. I guess that's what happens when you lose 3 town in a row. Possibly one third of the players here could be scum. This would explain the lack of decisions.
This has been my only defence and yes it sucks and it is true.........one mistake made and all this attention. I think it is fair for me to try and at least convince people that it was a genuine mistake....and if I fail at this I believe I have not done anything else scummy enough since then to merit all this attention, but it looks like at least some people are seeing this and looking at other people too.Pink Puppy wrote:But I do think it really sucks for both of us if you really did just make a mistake and not realize how many votes were on Mozsuggs, and just tried to be funny at an inopportune time. I mean if that's true, it's basically my worst case scenario that I think is low on my scale of probability.