Mini 1891: Fat Boy Mafia [Over]

[Persivul]

VOTE: Grey

Let's just kill him now and save 10 or 20 thread pages.

[Persivul]

Could say the same about FB actually...

[Persivul]

VOTE: Grey

Let's just kill him now and save 10 or 20 thread pages.

And that's just D1...

[Persivul]

I'm a commuter!

Yeah that's why we have to lynch you, vig can't take you out.

[Persivul]

When will we be friends persivul?

Never. I don't come to a mafia site to make friends. Makes playing the game more difficult.

[Persivul]

WTF I can't even make a post without seeing 6 previews.

[Persivul]

grey is bringing snacks.

Yeah but they're carrot and celery sticks because he's not a Fat Boy.

[Persivul]

Grey
Pine
Implosion

Nosferatu
Fire
Prana
Persivul
TwoFace
Wheme

---------<--- line of lynchability

Desperado
Alz


VOTE: desperado

Does anyone know this person? Is this normal for them? It feels awkward af. Also the double voter joke felt forced.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: pieg

[Persivul]

i don't know "pieg" but i know a "pieguyn"

I thought of that but why would you make an alt if it's so obvious?

Unless the alt itself is a wifom play...

[Persivul]

Why vote for page 1 content now instead of on page 3?

Because I was just fucking around earlier, then I went back and took a serious look. Seems pretty obvious to me, but there you go.

[Persivul]

I often miss the obvious, so forgive me for asking for clarification because you didn't seem to be fucking around when you put me at L-2.

Actually, yes, it's pretty obvious I was fucking around with that post. What about it do you take seriously? And why are you so concerned with an early L-2?

[Persivul]

The L-2 didn't concern me. You being happy to put the wagon there on page 3 with nary a word of notice did because it put the wagon in lolhammer territory.

Ah, so two more people would have had to vote you without counting for an lolhammer...but it would have been

my

fault as the third-to-last guy for not giving a VC. Got it!

[Persivul]

Fire are you scum

So if grey is scum, check whemestar

Are u scum two face

Amazing scum hunting strategy. Why didn't I ever think of this?

[Persivul]

one of my votes is still on prana obv

The VC shows you with one vote on prana, so why are you still acting like you have 2 votes? With that VC I thought you were just joking about it.

[Persivul]

Post restriction is bullshit. Mod said in the signup thread, "I guarantee no shenanigans etc."

VOTE: Pine

[Persivul]

Just got home from an eight fucking hour track meet
VOTE: alz

Happy Scum Day!

[Persivul]

@nexus

, you missed my vote in the VC (assuming there's no shenanigans).

Desperado remains an excellent vote.

pieg is town. Persivul is town. Wheme looks somewhat town, but not as town as I thought he likely would if he was town so we'll see. massive is likely town. Fire's decently likely town, his early tone felt off but i like his reads.

That's an awful lot of town reads for page 7.

[Persivul]

i did not say i was unsure on the whole.
and it was not for an extended period of time.
those are what fencesitting is. I really have no idea what you're saying right now.

Desperado, what do you think of me right now? Are you getting a scumread on me from this?

Scum can't really scum hunt. So, throw out some town reads and give a weak reason on one of them to look like you're doing something. Yes, scum would do that.

[Persivul]

Spoiler:

Curious what others think.

I think you severely underestimate Persivul.

I think it's easy to rail against someone as scum on day one.

I think it doesn't make a player town if they do.

I think Desperado is still a lovely wagon.

I think you severely underestimate Persivul.

I think it's easy to rail against someone as scum on day one.

I'm not townreading him for railing against you, I'm townreading him because his vote on you makes more sense from town than from scum and in the subsequent exchange he comes off as not caring how he's perceived.

Is Persivul particularly known for scum play? I haven't played with him in memory.

Let's note that I didn't rail against Grey. We had normal mafia interaction.

[Persivul]

PranaDevil (1) - PranaDevil

I don't mind the cutesy self-vote early in the the game, but leaving it there is bad.

[Persivul]

230 is exactly the kind of subtle shading Persivul excels at as scum because he knows he can pawn off his remark as not understanding the context of the post if he's called on it and lay the blame at my feet over it even though I already explained that I was referring to Desperado in the second statement of that post and he completely ignored it.

Or maybe your post was just poorly worded. When you speak of the actions of an unspecified person, and you mentioned person A in the previous line, then mention person B two lines subsequent, it's natural for the reader to conclude that the unspecified person was person A. Note that implosion drew the same conclusion.

[Persivul]

Note that my point was clarified LONG BEFORE you tried to use my post to throw shade.

Note that I was responding AS I READ.

[Persivul]

There's no need to be repetitive.

[Persivul]

Grey, are you seriously trying to sort me at this point, or do you just need to be right on every single minor fucking point in the thread?

[Persivul]

So grey is probably scum.

Why?

[Persivul]

FWIW, Grey's reaction to his wagon seemed normal for him.

p-edit: I don't think so. In my albeit limited experience with him, scum!Grey would have panicked. Grey is generally overly concerned with his own standing as town, so I expect some reaction, but he didn't go overboard.

[Persivul]

I'll have to go back and look at the game I played where grey was scum and lynched. I don't remember that kind of reactions you are saying

That would be good. Mine's from ongoing so I can't say more.

[Persivul]

Without going into detail... do you really think I'd make the same mistake twice?

Sure. People repeat mistakes all the time.

[Persivul]

I was already there and no one seemed to care. Maybe you'll be heard.

What do you think of Pine talking in memes?

[Persivul]

While I hate defending Grey, and he denies it himself, I think a lot of that is just Grey being unable to admit fault in any way.

[Persivul]

pine wagon is shit; zero motivation either alignment for him to do what he's doing.

What makes you think Scum wouldn't fake a post restriction to deter interactions and attempts to sort?

[Persivul]

pine wagon is shit; zero motivation either alignment for him to do what he's doing.

What makes you think Scum wouldn't fake a post restriction to deter interactions and attempts to sort?

Because if he keeps doing it, we're obviously gonna just end up policy lynching?

It's not a policy lynch when there's a reason, and a reason has been given.

[Persivul]

Get to lylo with FB and try to sort him based on 500 posts of fluff, then see how much you like him.

[Persivul]

I hope I do good enough this game where I am not at LYLO.
Persivul who you scumreading Rn?

I'm not crazy about Pine or pieg.

[Persivul]

I wish Pine would stop with the fake post restriction, really makes me want to vote him.

If it's fake (probably) and enough people vote him, he'll probably start talking.

[Persivul]

Fire why Persivul? I don't see anything in his ISO

It's his standard shtick. D1 he asks if we'll ever be friends, then votes me without explanation.

[Persivul]

Fat Boy got straight to work, peeling the lid off of the burger and removing the lettuce, tomato and gerkins.

Lol - Fat Boy don't want no stinking vegetables on his burger! Nice flavor mod!

[Persivul]

vote: Implosion

Getting a really bad vibe from his posts thus far. Same goes for Pieg. Though I'd happily hop on a

Pine wagon

if he doesn't cut out that meme crap.

People say it, but don't do it.

[Persivul]

I realized my read on persivul was such a surface level read i needed to throw it out and reread and then when I read again taking out what i was town reading him for i didn't like his progressionn

This was my explanation btw.

And it doesn't really say anything. Just buzz words.

[Persivul]

Fire why Persivul? I don't see anything in his ISO

It's his standard shtick. D1 he asks if we'll ever be friends, then votes me without explanation.

i don't think this is at all true, but ill wait for pers to give me examples.

You couldn't possibly think I'd dig through games for such a minor point. So, why are you pushing this request?

[Persivul]

I doubt he'd get modkilled for a slip if it's real so he could slip and mod issue an in game warning

If he doesn't get another vote soon I'm moving to prada. That last post was really bad.

[Persivul]

because i am trying to see if you legit think that?

If you're wondering if I legit think that, you definitely don't need links. With my memory I legit think wrong things all the time.

[Persivul]

@Persivul So you don't think this is true?

How in the world do you reach that conclusion from what I said?

BTW I checked the dragons game we were in. You didn't ask about being friends, but you did vote me D1 "for reasons."

[Persivul]

What part of that bolded legit don't you understand? You're not really thinking it through.

[Persivul]

More like, I think it's probably true, but if it weren't I wouldn't be shocked.

The more important thing is...so what? Why were/are you pushing it? Bad memory isn't AI, and there's no particular scum motivation for such a throwaway line.

[Persivul]

why do you think pine as scum would fake a posting restriction again?

To avoid interaction. I've never seen his scum game. Maybe he sucks and thinks that, while a fake restriction will draw attention to him, actually talking would be worse.

[Persivul]

VOTE: pieg

[Persivul]

Grey why can't we form a town block?

i should honestly be scum on everyone reads list.

Well there's that.

[Persivul]

Why should you honestly be scum on everyone's reads list?

[Persivul]

Should you not be on scum lists because you've posted good town content, or because you haven't posted anything scummy?

[Persivul]

That was your fifth post joking about being scum. Why do you do that?

[Persivul]

I know you said my reasoning on you was "Buzzwords"

It was.

but i really think your just pushing people who are easy mislynches right now

First, the evidence shows that's wrong. If I were pushing easy mislynches, people would vote along with me.

Second, why in the world would I do that as scum on D1? Do you feel a need to push easy mislynches as scum on D1?

and as pointed out the reasoning on Pine is bad.

I thought he was an easy mislynch?

[Persivul]

That was your fifth post joking about being scum. Why do you do that?

boredom mostly, it keeps me on the whole "this game isn't serious, don't take it serious"
mentality that i need to maintain so i don't be an ass hat.[/quote]
Or you could just take it seriously but not be an asshat.

[Persivul]

5 people are voting Pieg, so you saying its not easy is kind of funny to me.

Four, and wagons at this point on D1 don't last to lynch, so your point is invalid.

And yeah, Pine is easy mislynch to YOU. Not to everyone, maybe I worded that badly, but you seem to be pushing people who everyone doesn't like their posts aka Easy Mislynch, in your mind.

The problem is that you don't understand my mind. You're analyzing my play as if I'm newbie scum.

Again - "why in the world would I do that as scum on D1? Do you feel a need to push easy mislynches as scum on D1?"

[Persivul]

kind of funny to me

Speaking of funny...there's a word for people who are easy to lynch: scummy. You're criticizing me for pushing players who appear scummy.

You're voting me. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you're not a hypocrite, so you apparently think that I don't really appear scummy, i.e. you don't have a solid basis for your push. NTTAWWT at this stage of the game, but it's pretty funny.

[Persivul]

2. the fuck does NTTAWWT mean

Not that there's anything wrong with that. People are pushed for numerous reasons, particularly in the first half of D1. Getting reactions, seeing who gets on, seeing who gets off. FB is ignoring that fact and pretending like scum!pers would just blatantly push for an early mislynch on D1. It's ridiculous.

[Persivul]

whats your scum meta pers?

How can you play the game this long and think so simplistically?

[Persivul]

If you think meta is trash, don't make arguments with meta at me on why you are town/scum.
If you think none of your actions are scummy at all, argue that.

but don't entertain me with meta and then tell me I am being stupid for questioning you on it.

I didn't say you were stupid. I said that your question was simplistic, and it was. "What's your scum meta" implies that the person has a single town and single scum play style. In reality, most people are more nuanced than that. I wouldn't play a cop the same as I'd play a VT for example, yet both are town.

Could you honestly answer the question

What's your scum meta

in a way that captures the differences between all your town games and all your scum games, yet isn't ambiguous to the point of being meaningless?

If so, let's hear it.

[Persivul]

I could see myself lynching Persivul over Firebringer if they decide to 1v1.

Same, don't like his push on fire really

Except...I haven't pushed fire.

[Persivul]

@alz you should mention names in your posts, they're a lot harder to read/follow especially at a glance when you're just listing numbers.

I don't know what to make of persivul. His recent play is very opaque. I dislike the degree to which he's focused towards firebringer, and some of his posts towards him have felt viscerally scummy but I can't really justify why. Like 496. Just a really... idk, weird response. Not really productive, not relevant to the game, idk. And the way he talked about how he wouldn't push an easy mislynch as scum. I think he's telling the truth but it feels off. It feels like he's being too dismissive and that he's focusing his attention in fb's direction to the detriment of other directions (similar to what I criticized desperado of, but he is doing other things). I still think his early play reads gut town even taking experience into consideration (it's certainly fakeable but i think it's a little more likely not to be faked).

You don't know what to make of me...yet you speak of me in the third person instead of trying to interact. I don't know what to think of fire, so I interact with him...and you criticize that. Can't say that I agree with your approach.

[Persivul]

why doesn't grey have more votes on him?

Can you link to his scum game where his reaction to being wagoned was similar to this game?

[Persivul]

I thought that was part of your argument on him.

[Persivul]

See 248 and 251

[Persivul]

Prana ISO:

13 - RVS vote
25 - cutesy self-vote
28 - more fluff
158 - excuse not to post
394 - excuse not to post
409 - votes implosion based on bad vibes. Also feeling bad about pieg and pine.
461 - more excuses for not posting

Seems horrible, but there's a big BUT: I agree with all of those positions in 409. Implosion and pieg aren't controversial, but pine is to some extent.

Null/town for now. Need more content.

[Persivul]

Because several people have told me that the meme posting is NAI.

[Persivul]

all three of those positions were easy as fuck, PARTICULARLY pine. which is why i voted him for it

Prana is easy as fuck too. Does that mean you're scummy?

This game seems to be in bizarro world, where you can't scum read someone for being scummy, because that's too easy.

[Persivul]

massive ISO (a contradiction, but you know what I mean):

48 - RVS (IMO) vote

General comment: ISOing is a lot easier if you quote what you're responding too, even if it's the previous post

87 - applies CW to the grey wagon and grey's response to it
421 - response to wheme feels town - talks back to him but doesn't go overboard
423 - "I'm a D1-2 faffer." Why? Seriously curious about your answer.
463 - Reads well, and I agree on TF, but haven't looked at Alz yet.

What's there is good and I would tend to lean town, but there just isn't much to go on, so null/town.

[Persivul]

Okay then.

How has your read on fire developed as a result of your interactions with him?

It's moved in the town direction. His argument on me is bad, but not scummy bad, and he realized he was beginning to tunnel.

[Persivul]

Twoface is more town than before.

Yes, after twoface v. grey twoface looks pretty town, and I was considering voting grey before the replace out. Will be interesting to see what twoface thinks of alisae (or if he even cares).

[Persivul]

The wagon on pieg is a thing because pieg made a reads list in RVS and people didn't believe it was real? It's still a bad wagon.

lmaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaao okay I'm going to go ISO the people on that wagon.

implosion isn't exactly a universal town read. You're just taking his word on this because...?

[Persivul]

Can someone remind me again why Persivul got away with really easy votes on Pieg and Pine? Like skimming his ISO they just seem easy to me.

It's been discussed at length. It's easy to vote scummy players. We don't get extra credit for lynching more subtle ones first.

[Persivul]

Can someone summarize why things happened that would be reall cool thanks.

You're slot basically claimed scum.

The end

[Persivul]

Kay if you wanna quote the post that would be nice but if it's also in your ISO that's cool too.

Iso me + firebringer.

[Persivul]

game is stagnating

neither of the lead wagons is interesting

twoface vs grey is officially dead so their crossvotes are whatever

if you're reading wheme as town hit me up

I read your ISO and you've been mentioning wheme most of the day, but never giving much substance.

[Persivul]

Competing wagon is nos. I've been scum with nos before and I don't see her as scum here.

[Persivul]

It wasn't intended as a town read. Thought you'd be willing to work with people with null reads or no reads on him as well.

So, instead of making a better scum case on him, you want someone to make a town case on him that you can pick apart?

[Persivul]

I can't see scum literally asking to be part of a townbloc :/

With this kind of town block - just self proclaimed and by mutual agreement on D1 - why not?

[Persivul]

My case is simple and I already stated it. Wheme got a scum PM and doesn't know what to do, which has resulted in his dumpster fire of an ISO.

If someone is townreading him I want to know why.

Thing is that if his ISO were really a dumpster fire, you'd be able to make more than a simple case. It seems like you're saying that he's a hard null to you. I get voting a hard null for pressure. But, by asking if anyone town reads him and if so why, you seem to be moving the burden of proof so that null becomes scummy.

[Persivul]

I don't like giving progressio. I like keeping my thoughts to myself if I can

Key word being "if." You don't have the track record to support that yet.

[Persivul]

The reason I try and keep my thoughts to myself is because I'm afraid of my thoughts being wrong.

That's one reason to put your thoughts out there if you're town - so if they're wrong they get corrected.

[Persivul]

why do people not like explaining to me why they think i am town?

Why are you obsessed with having people explain why they think you're town?

[Persivul]

Would also be nice if darklyn did anything at all before the day ends since the prana wagon sort of spontaneously appeared then spontaneously disintegrated and now we're left with a slot that more or less lurked through the first half of the day and has made three contentless posts since being replaced.

Agreed.

That slot and pine are both mostly unreadable for me right now. I don't understand the strong townreads on pine.

And again. I get it if people see votes on him as policy and don't want to do that, but town reading him is BS.

[Persivul]

I am a tone reading and I don't feel any sense of frustration from Whemes posts tbh.

Neither do I, and I don't feel any sense of caught scum panic either, especially considering he's fairly new. Do you?

[Persivul]

regardless of whether you think you can get a read off pine's actual posts due to them not containing words, you are still able to see who he interacts with and how

saying that you can't get a read off pine's posting is just lazy

Or saying you

can

get a read from it is just BS.

Do you believe the post restriction?

[Persivul]

Thing is that if his ISO were really a dumpster fire, you'd be able to make more than a simple case. It seems like you're saying that he's a hard null to you. I get voting a hard null for pressure. But, by asking if anyone town reads him and if so why, you seem to be moving the burden of proof so that null becomes scummy.

shit pers you're right, when i said multiple teams that i think wheme is SCUM who doesn't know what to do and is trying and failing to replicate what he thinks his town meta is i really meant he's just null

OK, my "to you" wording was bad, so I'll restate: while you take the position that wheme is scum, the reasoning you give is more consistent with a null read.

Also same question I asked FB: "I don't feel any sense of caught scum panic either, especially considering [wheme]'s fairly new. Do you?"

[Persivul]

Sup

who /fatboy/ here?

Hmmm

So why'd you bother replacing in?

[Persivul]

so do you have an opinion on the wagon or what?

It's served its purpose. There's ~3.5 days left. I think we should wagon up

VOTE: Darklyn

for now. If you're really hot on wheme, there will still be time to move back to it.

[Persivul]

huh???

that's not an opinion

Nope. Neither is

[crickets]

an answer to the question, "I don't feel any sense of caught scum panic either, especially considering [wheme]'s fairly new. Do you?"

why did you unvote pieg

I want to hear from darklyn.

[Persivul]

Why?

Feel like he would be defending himself a lot more if he was scum

Wouldn't newbie scum panick and defend himself a lot

Feel like you're just parroting what I said about you.

[Persivul]

VOTE: Aliz by far my first choice today, all his posts are cautious and non-committal

pieg, Alisae, Firebringer and TheRealGin-N-Tonic are all obvtown

Leaning town for Desperado and Nosferatu

Never played with Persivul or Pine before and their play didn't really stick out to me... null

I'm going back and forth on Wheme being scum or town with no motivation

scumleaning massive, his 729 post is just awful and shady

like this post is clearly doing things and trying to move the game forward in a pro-town manner

you didn't engage any of his reads beyond the one on yourself

and are now acting like this post doesn't exist

what's up with that?

First, consider the timing - this post came shortly after I called for a wagon. Prior to that we got nothing.

Second, this is really vague stuff. Only two people got reasons of any sort, and those were just "cautious and non-committal" and "his 729 post is just awful and shady."

It's pretty underwhelming and could easily be scum seeing my vote and trying to head off trouble.

[Persivul]

so do you have an opinion on the wagon or what?

It's served its purpose. There's ~3.5 days left. I think we should wagon up

VOTE: Darklyn

for now. If you're really hot on wheme, there will still be time to move back to it.

[Persivul]

Bold 1: You're telling me a slot is scummy but damning me for voting for something scummy.

When you do your catchup you'll find that's a recurring theme in this game for some reason.

[Persivul]

bc i know his scum meta and he's blatantly trying to avoid me after buddying me failed to work and he's done jack shit all game whereas dark has actually voted scum and dark's wagon composition is disgusting so he's either scum with like massive and pine or he's just a ml

You can of course do whatever you want based on meta, but to say that dark has done more than alz this game is just objectively wrong. Anyone can look up their isos and see that.

[Persivul]

Your kind of shit doesn't fly on this site.

[Persivul]

I dunno man I've seen RC do it pretty often

First - probably not like 1087
Second - and RC's been suspended for it IIRC

[Persivul]

Back in Jan 2016 he got a 2-week timeout for abusive behavior. I suppose he's toned it down now but personally I don't play with him.

[Persivul]

Nice shot Alisae. Sometimes the correct play is also the easy one...just sayin'...

[Persivul]

This game is about 20 pages too long for day 1 in all honesty.

See above.

[Persivul]

Can I vote you too?

[Persivul]

Maybe because I pushed scum D1 while fire defended said scum, and he doesn't want me around as a reminder of that.

[Persivul]

Yes, I did. Pine slipped. In the signup thread, mod said there would be no shenanigans. A meme post restriction seems like a shenanigan. Mod said this after the initial game description where it was easy to miss. Why do you ignore that argument?

Post restriction is bullshit. Mod said in the signup thread, "I guarantee no shenanigans etc."

VOTE: Pine

[Persivul]

because it's not a real reason

Yes, it is. There's no town motivation to fake a post restriction. Mod said there would be no shenanigans. The obvious conclusion is that Pine was scum who didn't see mod's statement.

and you didn't see it through to completion?

You don't get every lynch you want either. Check my iso - hundreds of posts after the initial argument and vote I still wanted it.

[Persivul]

and i was operating under the assumption that pine was faking it to begin with

No you weren't.
In 156 you accepted it - "nice post restriction pine"
In 555 you were questioning whether he was faking it - "prana catching up and ~magically~ being willing to vote implosion (leading wagon), pieg (weird playstyle, multiple suspicions) and

pine (faking?

a pr, multiple suspicions) is what i mean by easy lynches."

[Persivul]

I've never seen town do a fake post restriction like that. I mean you could show me and light up my world but besides that, yeah no I don't see that happening.

I've never seen town do a fake post restriction like that. I mean you could show me and light up my world but besides that, yeah no I don't see that happening.

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=6771

Three town fakes different posting restrictions

Holy crap, Gin asks for a case where town faked a post restriction, and 6 minutes later you have an example from nine years ago? WTF? Looks like you had it waiting in case you needed it.

[Persivul]

why would he have a case waiting for conf!scum?

Because he's scum too. Thought the implication was obvious.

if he had a case waiting he would've used it yesterday?

It wasn't needed yesterday. People bought the excuses made for Pine.

[Persivul]

if he's scum it makes no sense to defend pine's actions as town after he's already flipped scum..?

People who defended Pine yesterday don't look very good today..?

[Persivul]

no mention of that being an obvious conclusion in your iso. didn't call him scum in 226,

Post restriction is bullshit. Mod said in the signup thread, "I guarantee no shenanigans etc."

VOTE: Pine

You don't see a vote after "Post restriction is bullshit" as an indicator that I think the conclusion is that the post restriction is scummy?

[Persivul]

i am baffled that we are talking about how obvious it was or wasn't that pine was scum

When someone flips red, looking at who pushed them, who defended them, who ignored them...that's pretty standard play.

[Persivul]

i'm not shitposting with you anymore fire

i think i pissed dead!pine off enough as is

i am also very upset with this.

Upset because you miss shitposting with him, or upset as in you find it scummy?

[Persivul]

momo will quote post 1496 on their correct account.

It will put the lotion in the basket.

[Persivul]

Momo what's your take on pieg?

[Persivul]

BTW, I see your rank is His Majesty the King, how dd you change it

You can't change it yourself. There's a thread called Title Fairy. You need to be nominated by others and then approved by the fairy. I got this because I was king in a kingmaker game and really hammed it up with royal proclamations and such. Everyone had a good time and they nominated me.

[Persivul]

Nothing. I'm too busy at work to do ISOs but I can talk.

Whemestar (5) - Desperado, pieg, Firebringer, Nosferatu, Pine

What do you make of that. Any scum besides Pine?

[Persivul]

I miss blitz games. Standard length days are usually a flurry of activity to start for a few calendar days, then a week of blah, then a rush at the end.

[Persivul]

you literally haven't even voted today

So what?

You just saw me play a scum game in which the IC had me firmly as town, the babysitter protected me 3 nights in a row, and I won in lylo in just a few hours. You know that, as scum, I have no problem acting town. Yet, in this game, you claim to scum read me for newbie level stuff.

[Persivul]

i don't care

So are you scum, or tunneling town? Open-minded town would care about very clear and recent meta, so you're not in that category.

[Persivul]

and you jumping straight to "i had no trouble looking town in THAT game remember???" rather than explaining why you're town in THIS game is pretty scummy

Why is that? I'm good at scum. You saw my last game. In the game prior to that I was called a shiny golden god of scummery in the postgame. Why isn't that relevant, when people are scum reading me for newbie level stuff?

[Persivul]

and you jumping straight to "i had no trouble looking town in THAT game remember???" rather than explaining why you're town in THIS game is pretty scummy

Further, you're misrepping. I have given reason that I'm town in this game - mainly that I was pushing flipped scum. Yet, in your mind, I was bussing - but not bussing hard enough to actually get him killed - then I got lucky that the vig took him out.

[Persivul]

regardless of whether you think you can get a read off pine's actual posts due to them not containing words, you are still able to see who he interacts with and how

saying that you can't get a read off pine's posting is just lazy

Or saying you

can

get a read from it is just BS.

Do you believe the post restriction?

"holster it and later say that his post restriction rendered him unreadable and attack people for thinking otherwise" is quite a stretch.

[Persivul]

My main suspect is pieg. I'll put together a case when I get a chance, but for now consider the defense of pine D1 and the objection to analysis of pine defenders today.

[Persivul]

who next

Wheme.

Yesterday I started the darklyn wagon. You then got on, and later claimed that you had started it. You unvoted for awhile, then came back on to hammer.
What was up with all of that?

[Persivul]

I would think that a "transparent as hell" game would include answering some questions.

[Persivul]

Ash you think im scum? :/

Awh *

If that's to me - yeah, sorry. I find pieg scummier, but you at least have one vote, so:

VOTE: Wheme

FTR I find pieg/wheme to more likely be an

or

than an

and

.

[Persivul]

regardless of whether you think you can get a read off pine's actual posts due to them not containing words, you are still able to see who he interacts with and how

saying that you can't get a read off pine's posting is just lazy

Or saying you

can

get a read from it is just BS.

Do you believe the post restriction?

"holster it and later say that his post restriction rendered him unreadable and attack people for thinking otherwise" is quite a stretch.

......

no it isn't? thats literally what you did word for word

Holster it: no, as the argument was based on setup and a mod comment, not interactions.
Rendered him unreadable: correct, he couldn't be read based on content. He could still, however, be scum read based on the post restriction ploy and mod's comment.
Attack: This is mafia, "BS" is hardly an

attack

.

[Persivul]

What you're saying is that it's perfectly okay for you to scum read Pine

Yes, when someone pretends they have to post in memes when the mod has said "no shenanigans," I think it's perfectly Ok to scum read them for it, as I don't see town motivation for doing so. You agreed that there isn't town motivation back in 1411 and following.

but no one is allowed to push Pine for what he does.

Yes, I was leery of claims that what could be garnered from some memes overrode the "no shenanigans" argument. You're not? And note that the argument was never detailed. If it had been, and made sense, I might have felt differently about it.

[Persivul]

Why do you SR me

In a nutshell, I haven't seen an original charge out of you all game. I liked the way you responded to pressure D1, but you haven't done anything else. IIRC you said you start to scum hunt D2, but we're here now and still nothing.

[Persivul]

I thought you scumread me pers?

And?

[Persivul]

Pers, why you no analyze the shit I did with Dark?

Two words, first one is "fuck."

[Persivul]

I thought you scumread me pers?

And?

You think my partner is either pieg or wheme or that i am some sort of traitor?
Or is this a completely independent read?

None of the above.

[Persivul]

second word gets you a vote

You or off, take your choice. Are you an RC alt? The playstyle's starting to come out.

[Persivul]

{Ginngie, Wheme, Desperado}
{pieg, AJ}
{implosion, Firebringer}
{momo, Nosferatu}

How I'm feeling.

I think you had me planned, and that's why you "forgot" to include me here.

[Persivul]

Ummmm I think you are pushing a button that shouldn't be pushed....

Is alt speculation against the rules? Serious question.

The playstyle is badgering another to answer questions while refusing to do so himself. It's an RC trademark.

[Persivul]

Its not....it's just gin and rc have played together and they don't really get along.....

Lol - yeah I bet they don't.

[Persivul]

He's allowed to scum read Pine but attacks those that try to work a case on Pine.

What do you mean by "work a case on"?

[Persivul]

Wheme:

Early on I was pinged by posts like 73, 134, 136. These feel like he's imitating things that he's seen other people do.

342 - "I really want to vote pine." But doesn't. Repeats it in 374. In hindsight looks like distancing without really adding pressure to buddy. I push him on this in 426 and he doesn't reply.

Pages of low-content conversation stuff - more than I recalled. That's bad, until the 700s & 800s. He's being wagoned, and largely maintains the tone. He doesn't panic, which is what I would suspect from a newer player who's scum and caught early. 777 and 778 don't look like caught scum. I point this out in 856 - "I don't feel any sense of caught scum panic either, especially considering he's fairly new."

His wagon lessens and a wagon starts on Darklyn. Wheme practically repeats my point, but regarding Dark, in 938 and 940 - "Feel like he would be defending himself a lot more if he was scum." "Wouldn't newbie scum panick and defend himself a lot." This took me back to my initial thoughts about him. Desp had pushed him for drawing scum and not knowing what to do with it. With wheme now basically repeating my thoughts, I was getting the same feeling. I point out the parroting in 957 but he doesn't respond.

Bad start to D2. 1105 - "Ok, I wasn't here at the end of Day 1 so why are you two voting Alz and Momo you play too much." Asking questions to look active, and why didn't he read the end of D1 if he thinks it might have something to do with those votes? Then 1108 - votes Momo, saying "My vote stays here until he shows that he will actually play this game." That's a blatantly null way to put up a vote, knowing that people like desp will sr you if you don't put one up. Moves his vote to alz, then in 1245 says "the games I've played with Momo makes me want to vote him." This is a recurring thing - saying who he wants to vote, but never really pushing them. Switches back to Momo in 1482, but hides it behind fire - " agree with fire that this is right lynch."

[Persivul]

you don't like meta pers?

I consider it if I have it, but I've mostly quit digging it up. I believe I've mentioned that I don't see nos as scum due to a scum game we played together, although that was a while ago.

[Persivul]

Where do you get a hard push? Looks like pine voted wheme once, and implied he was sheeping fire. Pine's position on the wheme wagon is a little dangerous for distancing purposes, but it's not out of the question. Wheme's apparent calm might have been because he knew a buddy was on it and would get off if necessary. Pine could do most anything he wanted since he was posting in memes.

[Persivul]

you don't like meta pers?

No, he came on late. Could have been distancing with intent that the wagon fail, or could have been bussing if he thought wheme was a lost cause.

[Persivul]

Whemestar (5) - Desperado, pieg, Firebringer, Nosferatu, Pine
Darklyn (7-LYNCH) - Persivul, massive, Alisae, Pine, pieg, Darklyn, TheRealGin-N-Tonic

You and Pine are the only people on both wagons.

[Persivul]

This momo sucks, but he sucks in a completely different way than I've seen momo suck before. In other games he was a total train wreck. Now he's just MIA.

[Persivul]

That this is the only interaction between them that I see.

how is 906 not an interaction?

It's not an interaction with Pine. Isn't that what you were talking about?

[Persivul]

stating a clear read on another slot is interaction

No, when person A talks

to

person B

about

person C, that's not interaction between A and C.

[Persivul]

Ok. VOTE: Pieg

Why did you take pressure off momo just when he was at least saying he would do something?

VOTE: momo

[Persivul]

Doesn't look like a hammer. Per the last VC Gin was already on the wagon.

[Persivul]

Sorry, I'm sure momo - who's barely saying anything as it is - would have seen that, not bothered to check the VC, and spilled his guts in a manner that gave us a definitive read on him.

[Persivul]

I just thought it was a mistake. When you ...'d I realized what it was. I think tricks like that are generally dumb, and particularly in this situation, where the target is barely playing anyway.

[Persivul]

VOTE: Edo
This is for pieg's content. I'll do a re-read on nos when I get a chance, but that might not be for a couple of days.

[Persivul]

waitin for that great fantastic analysis from edos and pers and friends.

Just went to do PBPA on pieg but she had 329 posts, so you'll be waiting for fantastic analysis. The main point was on pine. She had pine as her top town read, despite him posting only in memes. There's no way you can objectively have someone as top town read based on such little information. When pressed, she defended the position:

regardless of whether you think you can get a read off pine's actual posts due to them not containing words, you are still able to see who he interacts with and how

saying that you can't get a read off pine's posting is just lazy

(As an aside, desp seems not to have read pieg, as he seemed to think that this was pieg defending a

scum

read on pine.)

This looks to me like scum playing tricksy to try to get a scummies nom.

You fake a post restriction, and I'll actually make you my top town read. If we pull it off it will be awesome.

But, the vig made a good shot and it fell apart.

[Persivul]

i just isoed myself and ctrlf'd pieg and I said twice that pieg townread pine. where did you get the opposite impression?

I'll take your word for it. Do you think it's reasonable that pieg had pine as her highest town read based on a few memes and a most likely fake post restriction? It looks like bullshit to me.

[Persivul]

Firebringer - Domino's Meateor - Fat Boy Townie - Killed Night 2

Now, if you can logically explain why I would do this as scum, that would be great.

Didn't fire claim doctor?

[Persivul]

I do.

[Persivul]

VOTE: Nosferatu

L-1

[Persivul]

What's wrong with my reasoning on pieg? Does it make sense to you that Pine would be pieg's top town read? Or do you need me to make a wall post?

[Persivul]

Yeah but you think that and then vote for Nos, Persi.

Gin made an interesting point on nos, and there's probably more than one scum left, don'tcha think?

[Persivul]

Do you agree with my assessment that there were more scum on the Dark lynch? If so, I believe we should focus our efforts here because we already know the alignments of everyone on that wagon except for three people. I'm including myself (my slot) in this pool. For clarity, it's {Persivul, TheRealGin-N-Tonic, Edosurist}.

You didn't actually make an assessment, you just said there were more scum on Dark without reason, and used that as an excuse to vote someone who's scum reading you. Consider what actually happened. The Dark wagon replaced this one:

Whemestar (5) - Desperado, pieg, Firebringer, Nosferatu, Pine

If scum is in {Persivul, TheRealGin-N-Tonic}, why didn't either of us jump on an L-2 wagon? It was late in phase, so deadline was an easy excuse.

Shouldn't an assessment of the dark lynch lead to the conclusion that wheme is scum, and dark was the CW?

[Persivul]

yes pers, wheme being scum is exactly the correct assessment thank you

It's nothing new. I've been pushing wheme. As I've said I think one of wheme/pieg is scum, but probably not both considering wheme's scum read on pieg. We were on wheme together for a while yesterday.

[Persivul]

We were on wheme together for a while yesterday.

That was ambiguous - "we" is me and desp.

[Persivul]

I also don't get what pers means with 2218.

Wheme was at L-2 with deadline approaching. At that point I started the darklyn wagon, and gin got on next and pushed it.

If wheme is town, at L-2 close to deadline, scum!pers or scum!gin have no incentive to start a dark wagon.

If wheme is scum, scum!pers or scum!gin do have incentive to start a dark wagon.

Between me and gin, I was pushing wheme a good bit of yesterday, and would lynch him now.

Put all that together and it points to one of two scenarios:
- all three of us are town, or
- wheme and gin are scum

[Persivul]

Misread a guilty...epic fail. I played like crap. This was my third or fourth scum game in a row and I just didn't have anything left in the tank. I'm taking a break for the summer, so nice to go out on a win, even if it was a cheap one.