Star Wars Rogue One [GAME OVER]

[Heartless]

Molla was unable to make that kill.

hm....

an unconventional nk for zefiend

Come on guys, use your heads.

1- shot Deflect, 1-shot Redirect, 1-shot Rolestop

[Heartless]

When I looked back at Titus' ISO, I realized she spent an

enormous

amount of time and effort defending the narrative that the vanillize

cleared

Molla as town.

Some highlights:

Now, why would you want to rope me and Rolefish BBMolla? Scum vanillaizing themselves isn't even moonlogicky enough for me.

As for whose scum, I haven't been terribly accurate in any of my recent games. I'm actually tempted to say Mastina, while good, isn't THAT good but I know RVS is actually one of those areas you can pick up a tell in and catch people unaware really easily. Just... Don't think Pine did anything suspicious in RVS. I'm still bothered with Molla to an extent, I want a claim to back up his vanilized talk. Really that's what I'm running off of right now.

Ok, let me explain something to you.
Yesterday's lynch of Pine happened because there was a hint/flirtation/claim of a guilty.
BBMolla claimed vanillaized before the guilty was announced.
If the claim was after, we could argue that BBMolla was taking advantage of the scumteam's impending loss of Pine to fakeclaim vanillaized. Otherwise, a vanillaized fakeclaim just costs them a use down the line.

Second, claiming his role helps scum PoE. Knock this off.

okay, just spent an hour minus a half
reading Infinity's ISO to see if he is aligned on scum's behalf.

I dont really think so, or at least it doesnt make sense.
I think I am just bothered about the Bolla defense.

I also think tonight I should be the leader.

unless someone has a counter point and that post I will be a reader.

I read AJ and there was no (little?) interaction with Pine.
Pine only mentioned AJ when asking people's thoughts of him.

sips wine

before I vote, Titus I have a question for you.

I thought you were just straight up derailing Infinity wagon with your pride.

By the way, loved your scumchat scene but that only takes place if Scum!BB knew scum!Pine was going down. Yet BB claimed first. Do you have any evidence suggesting scum knew you had a guilty over stubborn pride?

If you fuckers are going to lynch Molla, that will make this game unplayable for me in most regards. I am bet my life levels of confident Molla is town, and I lack the time or inclination to read through mountains of garbage when the truth is obvious.

No scum would fake being vanillaized before DP revealed his guilty.

So present me evidence of BBMolla knowing (which likely means scum in the hood) or this is just another distraction from Infinity scum or protecting Infinity scum.

DP, for BBMolla scum (which you leave open) you would nearly certain need someone to inform him of your cop check. You are not acting like that is a possibility. You are postulating that BBMolla scum and keeping the hood the same, which violates Occam's Razor.

Meanwhile, BBMolla is being a dumbass for claiming, so I cannot elect him Rogue Leader.

AJ is pants on head reading Molla today but right on Nero being a vindictive sack of shit, like he is regardless of alignment.

No one else is bothering with the spam those two put in the thread.


So tell me, who the fuck will take out the trash of Infinity and Nero along with them not playing Pants on Head level stupid? Yeah, I would vote that for Rogue Leader. Guess what, my townreads are also my dumb as fuck reads. So yeah, you are not getting my vote for Rogue Leader. No one is. I need to see intelligence and logical coherence, even if I disagree with it to vote Rogue Leader.

Right now, I just don't.

That would limit, by Occam's Razor, that BBMolla was town unless DP told of his guilty to scum in adavance via the starship. The mod could say put in a role that has scum directly ccing DP, but I find that unlikely. Otherwise, there's no way for scum to know that Pine was going down prior to BBMolla's claim. Thus, BBMolla town is extremely likely or BBMolla scum means Starship scum and Pine invaded a group that already had a member. The sheer level of justifications needed and to what extremes means BBMolla is town.

That's a very oversimplistic view of my personality. I do actually scrutinize who joins when and what reason. That's why we're even talking rather than me saying yes.

What's unhealthy is refusing to listen to evidence and adjust, which is what most of the thread appears do be doing.

Let's lynch The Thinker. He flips town.
Let's lynch Klingon. She's town.
Let's lynch BBMolla, and he's damn near conftown.

So am I supposed to wait for more dumb errors and compromise when the majority is systemically wrong?

You get the idea. There's more, all you have to do is go to Titus' ISO and use the "find word" function on Molla.
She was staunchly against Molla being forced to claim and she fought tooth-and-nail to give Molla's "vanillize" story credence. This goes beyond a simple whiteknighting effort, that's what she did for Klingon and that was mild compared to the fuss she put up over Molla. The premise for Molla being confirmed town is, of course, a crock. Knowing about the guilty was immaterial to the vanillize claim. All that would've been necessary for the gambit to work were people claiming to be vanillized and no vanillizer claim; the immediate implication would be that the vanillizer is scum and the vanillized is/are town.

There's these nuggets from MoI:

So this makes me feel that BB might just be playing terrible given that I doubt Nero scum puts both his partners in his “these players are probably Town” and Zefiend is pretty clearly scum.

So BBMolla claims Vanillaized … I don’t think scum wasted a shot of that limited ability created a clear for a partner. So unless I come across reason to doubt it happened I don’t see him as scum and think that reflects pretty poorly on Mastin still pushing his lynch even today.

Then there's Molla himself. He's pretty much coasted this entire game while intermittently attempting to diffuse mastina's scumread on him. The narrative he's trying to prop up is a load of crap anyway:

but I'd be cleaner about it mastina, I'd bus Pine

that's like double confirmed town, pushed lynch on the vanillaizer when I'm vanillaized?

you're just ignoring all the things like this, it would be more flawless if I was scum. it's messy looking cause I'm town

Oh, bullshit. He'd bus a vanillizer with shots left rather than let someone else get vanillized to lend credence to his story

while

retaining the utility of the vanillizer? I don't believe that.

As I already talked about a little yesterday, I don't buy that Molla is

just now

coming around to the realization mastina could be scum. Nero's been hammering that theory forever now and with that game he had handy to show to us, I would have to think Molla would be skeptical of mastina's alignment a lot sooner than endgame. The AJ read suddenly mellowing sounds pretty bullshit-y too.

I also think his MoI vote was a bus. TWIE noted the weirdness in logical progression it at the time.

how about if you're town reading zefiend and scumreading MOI you just say that instead of trying to work around to it like you havent made up your mind about it.

I'm not town reading zefiend, I have mixed feelings. But I'm having trouble placing him in a team.

If you'd fucking ask instead of responding with garbage posts you could find these things out

fucking lol

im the one making garbage posts?

what team is zefiend precluded from being on?

if hes scum start the fucking team with him.

Molla was trying to build up a "logical case" on the slot, precisely so that it

didn't

look like a bus.

Molla's scum. Lynch him for victory.

[Heartless]

i see zefiend at the bottom

but no results in the thread...

[Aj The Epic]

Molla was unable to make that kill.

hm....

an unconventional nk for zefiend

Come on guys, use your heads.

1- shot Deflect, 1-shot Redirect, 1-shot Rolestop

You think he saved 1shot deflect until N5? We know he didnt have redirect left as he would've just used it a night before and killed you when I stated I was going for the protect. I feel the more likely Molla!scum scenario is simply partner made kill. TBH I'm not sure how a deflect works but I didn't get any notification outside the norm on the happenings of the jailkeep.

[Heartless]

Any one of those would've thwarted a jailkeep. You should ask the mod if you would be notified of a redirect or deflect but self-targeting with the rolestop functionally makes him a strongman and there's no reason you would've been notified of that.

[mastina]

Anti.
While I appreciate your changed read on Molla.
I'm gonna have to tell you to go back to what you had before. You were right; I was wrong.
Molla is town.

Upon Magna's death, I received the death star plans.
The death star's a fucking factional scum JOAT.
Specifically, the death star's abilities are Cloaking Field (all scum are ninjas for the night), Firing the Death Star (strongman kill), and Impenetrable Hull (scum become BP for the night).

Against that kind of firepower, Molla literally can't be a scum JOAT; they

have

a scum JOAT, a factional one, so they don't need a player who has those powers.

I don't see how scum could hold ANY PR, really, at this point.

VOTE: zefiend.
There's no universe in which zefiend is town this game.

[Heartless]

what tripped that, mastin? did fire tell you?

[Heartless]

Seems like a really dumb reason to claim. And in my opinion, it is most certainly not possible for yours and BBmolla's claimed roles to both be town, unless scum has some gigantic ability.

:trollface:

VOTE: zefiend

[mastina]

Yes. Immediately after Magna died. I was given a message from Firebringer, which said that I had received the death star plans. Within that message, I was given the names of three abilities, and the description of what they did, and told, essentially, "this is what the death star does". Meaning the death star is a scum JOAT.

I mean.
Unless you think:
-That my role has yet to actually be triggered, AND
-That it was a scum messenger sending to me at

exactly

the right time...

...That's pretty conclusively from Firebringer? I realize I fullclaimed, but it's kind-of hard to fake fully the exact format of Firebringer's PMs, so I'm pretty sure it's legit. The scum have a JOAT, a ninja/strongman/BP JOAT to be more specific, and with the scum having that kind of a power, I just don't see any way for Molla to be anything other than town.

[Heartless]

nah, i think it's legit. i'm just wondering if vader's death caused it or that means it's down to 1 scum.

Spoiler: plot spoilers

vader's death would make sense as a trigger, that's what tth thought earlier anyway. he was chasing leia as the movie ended so vader dying --> plans secure makes sense.

[Heartless]

Well, 13 v 4 also had a number of quirks. First, it was a very low-power scumteam. We had a 1-shot strongman, plus a group power we could activate to get one of three 1-shots, though that also gave Town a 1-shot. Plus, one of our team was a Lover with Town, which is a negative utility role. So I don't know; I could buy a 14:3 from Firebringer in a power-heavy game, he likes his scumteams relatively weak.

regardless, i think pine tipped his hand here and it is down to 1

[BBmolla]

This all actually seems pretty reasonable?

[Heartless]

what does?

[TheWayItEnds]

how does this make you feel in terms of balance anti?

[TheWayItEnds]

Well, 13 v 4 also had a number of quirks. First, it was a very low-power scumteam. We had a 1-shot strongman, plus a group power we could activate to get one of three 1-shots, though that also gave Town a 1-shot. Plus, one of our team was a Lover with Town, which is a negative utility role. So I don't know; I could buy a 14:3 from Firebringer in a power-heavy game, he likes his scumteams relatively weak.

regardless, i think pine tipped his hand here and it is down to 1

oh I guess this is anti.

you think 3 scum with vanillas and death star is balanced?

seems kinda rough for scum there.

[TheWayItEnds]

although i guess if jk ever claims scum have 2 ways of removing him.

[TheWayItEnds]

but if all your power was deathstar and 2 shot vanillaizer it seems real loose to have shot BB in the dark n1.

[TheWayItEnds]

but death star and mollas role like literally cant exist on a scumteam together.

[Heartless]

oh I guess this is anti.

you think 3 scum with vanillas and death star is balanced?

yep this is me

my pet theory is that scum got an x-shot or otherwise gated rolecop to complement the vanillaizer, but i don't have anything other than game designers intuition to back that up.

but even if they don't vanillaizer + death star is pretty close to balanced. those death star abilities are potent (the WHOLE scumteam can go bp or invisible...yeeps)

[Heartless]

seems kinda rough for scum there.

that's bc your (and most ppl's) idea of balanced is in fact scumsided

[Heartless]

but if all your power was deathstar and 2 shot vanillaizer it seems real loose to have shot BB in the dark n1.

was thinking about that and it was one of the things feeding into my molla paranoia

they might've gotten spooked by how much backlash they initially got for breaking into the rogue crew. they also could've thought they had a good PR tell i guess?

it does seem suboptimal but there are a couple plausible reasons for it

i mean... u could say the same for the nks tbh

[TheWayItEnds]

seems kinda rough for scum there.

that's bc your (and most ppl's) idea of balanced is in fact scumsided

I mean maybe. i dont design games either, i just play them. and this game is on the smaller side for games i normally play in.

[TheWayItEnds]

but death star and mollas role like literally cant exist on a scumteam together.

this plus how low I think the chances are that molla claimed that role without having it are making me okay with molla town i think.

probably.

[TheWayItEnds]

they might've gotten spooked by how much backlash they initially got for breaking into the rogue crew. they also could've thought they had a good PR tell i guess?

from the crew you mean?

yeah i hadnt considered that.

[Heartless]

seems kinda rough for scum there.

that's bc your (and most ppl's) idea of balanced is in fact scumsided

I mean maybe. i dont design games either, i just play them. and this game is on the smaller side for games i normally play in.

don't get me wrong i'm not saying it to be snooty. it's just a fact that most players' idea of balanced is actually scumsided and the data back me up on that. ESPECIALLY large themes. zoraster does an md thread on large theme stats once in a while and scum win rates are consistently high

it's a way the site meta is improving bc ppl (esp the NRG, which firebringer is a part of) are now becoming cognizant of it and keep that in mind when designing setups