Open 674: Duck Duck Goose [Game Over]

[outoforder]

Does noone find anything wrong in fitz complaining about wot's in a wot that ends up in no conclusions? And then trying to fend off the suspicion because of something else i did (instead of elaborating on the obvious contradiction).

[outoforder]

And btw KidAm is not fucking mafia...

[BlackVoid]

I don't think writing a wall of text while complaining about one is scummy at all. Hap made the same argument and I literally could not believe someone would think that was scummy and that factored into my scumread on Hap. Seems more like it's a TeamLiquid thing though. I don't recall where Fitz tried to "fend off suspicion" with something you did but I think you are conf-biasing here. In general, I find his posts and reads to be town which I elaborated on in my big readslist.

On that note, I'd like to hear your thoughts on my 825.

Also FYI, we don't have three days to deadline, we have a day and sixteen hours.

[outoforder]

My argument is his wot ends up with "i will post my reads later".

Why would you ever write a post that is not towards twlling your reads or explaing something other people want from you (i.e. making your thought process clear).

[outoforder]

He wrote like 1000 word that said nothing. AFTER I HAVE BEEN READ TOWN FOR A WOT (that actually had a reason to be written).

[BlackVoid]

I'll wait till catch up is complete to give my reads and serious vote.

Here's what he said. I don't see the issue in catching up halfway through and holding off on giving reads until he's completely caught up.

[BlackVoid]

He wrote like 1000 word that said nothing. AFTER I HAVE BEEN READ TOWN FOR A WOT (that actually had a reason to be written).

I've played with Fitz before. Can confirm that wall-of-text is his normal style of play. I very much doubt he saw you getting townread for your wall and decided to go "hey, let me write a wall so I too can be townread."

You seem to be pretty big on looking over people's past games. Haven't you read any of Fitz's?

[outoforder]

But Frederick made a blunder; got pressured by OOO; and replaced out. He didn't replace out of nowhere; he replaced specifically after being pressured. More likely coming from scum than town.

Is this actually a thing that happens in TeamLiquid? I'd like Outoforder and Hap to answer as well. This seems like a massive stretch.

Yes it does happen. I also believe it happens here more than you believe, just that you can never prove that.

I dont think that is part of his original case is it? I believe it is just frustration for when you make a case on someone they just "replace out for reasons". I can get the frustration, i get the same feeling all the time.

[outoforder]

I'll wait till catch up is complete to give my reads and serious vote.

Here's what he said. I don't see the issue in catching up halfway through and holding off on giving reads until he's completely caught up.

I dont have problem with this post.
Tell me, why did he write the wot before? (You can just read the last 2 sentences for TLDR)

[cassielle]

i want a rels lynch yeah

ftr i think a hapa-town world is extremely unlikely as well, and theres no way that hapa/rels is TvT or TvS (could be SvT though, i agree)

what a rels flip tells us about is /other/ slots -- e.g. picks out scum no.3

rels lynch permits us to gamesolve. hapa lynch hits scum 100% of the time. so i prefer the rels lynch for now: we can afford a ML or two in the early game, and the faster we get gamesolve info the easier it is for town to win. hapa will not cease to be a good lynch d2

This is the post that is causing such uproar on Cass, and where BlackVoid and I are basically coming from in being like . Cass, I could read the lord of the rings books quicker than your iso. I don't fully understand this mis-rep that you are going on and on about, nor do I have a lot of free time today. Please In a short sweet 2-3 lines explain it to me, because I see where BlackVoid is coming from at a general standpoint.

In a 2-3 liner, explain to me how the Rels case doesnt need an associative flip to scumread him.

Post 924 basically illustrates where I'm coming from overall. Lastly what are your thoughts on my 935 post since you are so sure on a Hapa lynch being a scum success.

lastly if you are town, why would scum remotely try and attack you as hard as BV is doing? That is straight up risky when they can just kill you off. You're not exactly the easiest target to go after here.

compare my posts about a rels lynch where i explicitly say if the wagon meets resistance we should move back to hapa without question
then check out bv saying i was browbeating players into getting on the rels wagon
thats some pretty hefty misrep there and he /still/ hasnt admitted its garbage

then he calls me trying to obvtown and give a detailed, easy to parse explanation "fake" and i cant even be bothered anymore
and if you didnt see that explanation or you dont buy it or its not good enough, i cant help you. i dont have the energy to put up with the chainsaw from bv and now ooo and ive lost motivation to play this game due to it

i haven't replaced out primarily for the mods sake tbh
at this point just hoping yall pull together a damn ML wagon on me for today so you can lynch the scum come d2 and i dont need to pay attention to this game anymore

[outoforder]

He wrote like 1000 word that said nothing. AFTER I HAVE BEEN READ TOWN FOR A WOT (that actually had a reason to be written).

I've played with Fitz before. Can confirm that wall-of-text is his normal style of play. I very much doubt he saw you getting townread for your wall and decided to go "hey, let me write a wall so I too can be townread."

You seem to be pretty big on looking over people's past games. Haven't you read any of Fitz's?

I dont do that when i think someone is scum. I do that when i cant decide.

[outoforder]

Why the fuck you ppl join games you dont wanna play in? The replacement ratio is disgusting.

Cass, grab your shit, stop whining anf play ffs...

[outoforder]

Oh fuck i have completely misread something.
forget everything i said about cass.

[BlackVoid]

@Outoforder, I've rarely seen instances of scum replacing out under pressure. Seems unethical to replace out when caught. So, using that as an argument for why someone is scum feels like a stretch. But I suppose I can understand that if it happens frequently on TL. And no, it wasn't his original case, I guess I could see him being conf-biased and thinking Frederick replaced out under pressure.

My tinfoil theory at the time was that both Rels and Cass were partnered and Rels was so sure because he knew the Frederick slot was actually scum. But their interactions since Cass replaced in don't really fit partner interactions so I'm not concerned.

Regarding Fitz, writing walls of text is how he always plays the game. You can't expect him to be concise when that's not his style.

[outoforder]

Although cass i'd still appreciate if you yold me what makes you think you got a better chance of catching mafia if you lynch into active players than if you don't.

If i have missed the answer just say "fuck you and read the thread" and i will find it later. other than that i have no problems with you whoch leaves me with a problem that i dont have 3 scumreads, so i am missing something here... :/

[BlackVoid]

@Cass, I don't see how the thought process of "vote Rels, if we hit resistance, switch back to Hap" makes any sense whatsoever. Meaning if there is no resistance, then the Rels wagon goes through and you'll have just called Hap 100% scum and lynched someone else.

What I call browbeating is this quote:

stalling tactics to be aware of:
if players say they refuse to vote rels this dayphase, theyre stalling
if players say that someone outside of rels/hapa has a better chance of hitting scum, theyre stalling
if players push hapa while saying they scumread rels, theyre stalling
if players push rels but don't vote, theyre stalling

You are basically saying if people do anything but vote Rels, they are stalling. I assume you are saying stalling is scummy because I don't see why else you'd mention it in that context.

So, basically "vote Rels or you are scum." That's browbeating trying to get a Rels wagon going through DESPITE the fact that you've called Hap 100% scum. Why shouldn't townies be voting this 100% scum as opposed to Rels?

[outoforder]

I dont think youre getting my point hawk.

[outoforder]

I aldo dont know how i could be more clear so ugh....

[outoforder]

Oh sorry as haek i meant BV.
BV who did you replace?

[BlackVoid]

I assume you mean me since Hawk hasn't posted for a bit. I'm townreading both you and Fitz. If you think I'm wrong, I'm wiling to listen to what you have to say about Fitz's content. But telling me he's scum because he didn't need to write a wall, or that he complained about walls while writing one isn't convincing me. I've played with him before and know that that's his style. Talk to me about the actual content Fitz has posted in his walls that you have issue with. I do see the point you made about him not explaining the "contradiction" and scumreading you but I think pushing back on people that accuse him is normal for Fitz regardless of alignment as well. I replaced MooginSoosy.

[outoforder]

I'll put this out very clearly.
He wrote a wall that in the end said "my reads eill follow later".
You think writing 1000 words of nonsense (since reads are the only thing that matter) is a townie trait?

[outoforder]

What i see there is his logic at the start of the post changing to something else by the end of it. Thats why i think he is scum. It doesnt help that when i ask him to explain this he just refuses to and points out towards something i did.

[outoforder]

Well to be honest i just called him scum for it but basically the same thing.

[BlackVoid]

In any game of Fitz's that I looked at, his catch up style has always been to make walls responding to posts. Responding to things that have been said in thread isn't nonsense. He responded to half of it, said he'll do the rest later and post his reads when caught up.

[outoforder]

Now for the kids out there that would kinda be the definition of OMGUS.