Why don't you go ahead and try doing that?In post 3667, Nero Cain wrote:Basically at this point I have to convince Zfiend that he was wrong on Titus.
Star Wars Rogue One [GAME OVER]
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Heartless Jack of All Trades
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Nero Cain Survivor
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true. Like I think your use n1 was fine. targeting him AGAIN on n2 was? Like in what world would scum just randomly go "oh hey, we didn't send Cakez to do the nightkill last night. LETS USE HIM TONIGHT!"In post 3673, Aj The Epic wrote:Sircakez got lynched because he looked scum, it's not like there's a fucking surprise that I'm JK'ing him.
I am not calling Heartless scum, buddy them more.So you're now on this 'heartless/Aj team' bullshit out of nowhere.Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
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Nero Cain Survivor
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@AJIn post 3666, Nero Cain wrote:Why would a presumably town you publicly announce their target and thus tell scum who to not shoot at?
Thoughts on Mastins claim and MOIs use of his action plox.Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
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Aj The Epic Mafia Scum
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Nero, this suggests heavily otherwise. Any scum is going to read what went on yesterday and decide it's at the very least too much WIFOM to make the kill on.In post 3666, Nero Cain wrote:You "protected" her to give a plausible explanation for why Antiheart wasn't shot at over a lurky DP.
If you're wondering why I chose Heartless over DP it's because DP's role was suspect as shit to me.-
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Aj The Epic Mafia Scum
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1.) Because it SHOULD help town coordinate more 1 shot actions.In post 3677, Nero Cain wrote:@AJIn post 3666, Nero Cain wrote:Why would a presumably town you publicly announce their target and thus tell scum who to not shoot at?
Thoughts on Mastins claim and MOIs use of his action plox.
2.) Can't be worse than yours. Loved isn't a terribly important 1 off give and I'd rather it off the table anyways. Especially if MoI was in lylo.-
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Nero Cain Survivor
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I've made it very clear who I suspect and why. I think its scummy as fuck that you are trying to quote something with the intention of claiming that I'm scum reading them.In post 3678, Aj The Epic wrote:Nero, this suggests heavily otherwise.Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
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Aj The Epic Mafia Scum
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Nero Cain Survivor
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you will have to spell this out for me.In post 3679, Aj The Epic wrote:1.) Because it SHOULD help town coordinate more 1 shot actions.
Why would a town MOI use it on someone that's not up for a lynch and not use it on Mastina who is a serious lynch contender who he is calling town?2.) Can't be worse than yours. Loved isn't a terribly important 1 off give and I'd rather it off the table anyways. Especially if MoI was in lylo.
Thoughts on Mastina claim?Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
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Nero Cain Survivor
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I am clearly POE town reading everyone that's not you, MOI and Mastina. There is no fucking way that you are this dense as town.In post 3681, Aj The Epic wrote:I think it's funny you think that you spelled out any sort of town read. This just looked like an addition to your continuation of bad reads.
@Heartless. He's theONLYfull role in a sea of x-shots, that alone should give you pause. I think it also makes a TON of sense to give scum an unlimited blocking power.Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
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Aj The Epic Mafia Scum
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Oh so you're worried that he's not directly supporting his town reads
What's there to make of Mastina's claim? It can't be much more vague or less indicative to alignment.
In theory, me blocking Heartless would encourage other PR's to use watcher shots/protective abilities elsewhere since I was declaring responsibility for the protection.
P-edit: Nero, PoE reads are a fucking cop out and you know it.-
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Nero Cain Survivor
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vote:MOI
I'll tell Zfiend why Titus was scum in a littlebitOf all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
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Aj The Epic Mafia Scum
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Nero Cain Survivor
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And why is it an impossibility that there were two wagons on town?Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
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Nero Cain Survivor
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Like how in the world could you read that and think I'm scumreading Heartless.In post 3666, Nero Cain wrote:My new theory is that Heartless is the 4th/5th member of the scumteam and scum are keeping her alive and actively buddying her since they are helping the scum team. My belief here is that scum are you, MOI, and Mastina.Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
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TheWayItEnds Jack of All Trades
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In post 3665, Aj The Epic wrote:Nero, why did you voyuer Heartless when I explicitly stated I would be jailing heartless?As the last rays of sunlight fade, one killer chases another through the tangled madness of the city.
A flash of steel announces the presence of his quarry.
The stage is set.
The night explodes.-
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TheWayItEnds Jack of All Trades
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stating that you're for sure jailing heartless and jailing heartless are actually 2 different things.
and theres EV to be gained by sometimes not jailing heartless in this instance.As the last rays of sunlight fade, one killer chases another through the tangled madness of the city.
A flash of steel announces the presence of his quarry.
The stage is set.
The night explodes.-
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TheWayItEnds Jack of All Trades
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Firebringer Trail Blazer
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Show"You are the Joker of mafia players" - Oversoul
"last time I was scum with Firebringer
his first post in the scum PT was "yes I rolled scum!"
I decided to post "haha just don't post that in the main thread", but to get up to date on the main thread first.
His first post in the main thread was "yes I rolled scum!" -popsofctown-
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Heartless Jack of All Trades
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holy shit nero no it doesn't. i didn't just fall off the fucking turnip truck, i've run setups for years and i know that whenever you give GENERAL counters (like roleblockers) town power has to be high AND widely distributed. you can't have a clusterfuck of power over a few people and then give scum TWO general counter roles, that's FUCKING NUTS.In post 3683, Nero Cain wrote:@Heartless. He's the ONLY full role in a sea of x-shots, that alone should give you pause. I think it also makes a TON of sense to give scum an unlimited blocking power.
and this effect is WELL DOCUMENTED http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=67307
in case you don't want to read all that, just skip down to when hoopla talks about roleblockers and how they BLOW THE TOWN EV TO SHIT
the "x-shot" point isn't good either, that would actually indicate the full power IS town unless you're suggesting hampered town roles are going up against a scumteam on fucking viagra
the 2-shot vig and dp's joat is fucking IT for fixed town power. molla's role is middling to weak and all the little shit character abilities are p much power neutral. then you have the rogue crew invention which is not guaranteed to go to town AND scum have the power to at least spy on the rogue crew for a night. add all that up and it's also a middling role.
so you're saying a large with a grand total of TWO decent power roles going up against TWO general counters sounds balanced?
no
not in any universe where firebringer wants to retain the ability to run any more games
this is not a tit-for-tat thing. the town EV in the 14:3 and 13:4 ratios is 20-30%. town. need. more. power.
scum having a full blocking ability does not make ANY sense.-
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Heartless Jack of All Trades
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aj, you wanna take another swing at the titus townread?
earlier, you cited the early game so i went back. i see pine made a throw away vote on the tail end of the RVS and then a "moar titus votes" post later. on titus' end... i'm not seeing anything to suggest they wouldn't be buddies.-
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Nero Cain Survivor
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I did find http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Rogue_Four but neither mine nor DP's characters are listed so I guess its not updated.Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
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Nero Cain Survivor
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a 2 shot vig and 2 joats against a a goon that can make a player loved, whatever mastins real role is and a 2 shot vanilaizer and ???? Sure yeah, the crew skillscouldbe given to scum but I don't think that would or should play a part in balance.
In your theory that he's town we'd have a 2 shot vig, 2 joats, a full JK against a 2 shot vanillaizer, a goon that can make a player loved, whatever mastins real role is and another goon. That seems rather townsided to me but of course I don't really do modding so....
I just think it would make sense for scum to have blocking powers. And I don't think his play and use of action make sense as town.
I'd also like to note that Heartless was the RL and if the RL is blocked they can't give out the crew skills. So if AJ is going to sit his block on Heartless we need a new RL. It seems odd to me that if AJ felt Heartless was scum then why didn't he raise a fuss about Heartless being RL? and if he felt Heartless was town and wanted to protect them why would he not want a new leader?Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
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Nero Cain Survivor
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I mean unless Mastin or MOI are scum blockers I think its plenty possible that AJ is scum here.Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
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Heartless Jack of All Trades
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and here's the reason large themes have embarrassingly low town win rates...In post 3696, Nero Cain wrote:That seems rather townsided to me-
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Heartless Jack of All Trades
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inventions are spent. dp said as much yesterday
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