Mini 1875: Pine's Death Trap Post Game - Town win!

[nancy]

Like you'd have LUV as Town if not for associations?

[nancy]

If you had to pick one? Between LUV and Sheep? Which wagon do you think you'd end up on?

[nancy]

q.q

[nancy]

If you could answer 2326 that would be great because I'm rereading things and I'm starting to get some ideas and stuff but I need GUIDANCE!! And you are a hero Keyser!! You can give me what I need!!

[nancy]

But I'm going to bed SOON.

[nancy]

And then I just have ONE LAST question and then I'll NEVER BOTHER YOU AGAIN PROMISE!!!!

[nancy]

Keyser Keyser Keyser

[nancy]

Did you know I'm a Ravenclaw?

[Keyser Söze]

I'm at work Nancy

I would vote LUV over Sheep right now - but need an update from LUV and Akarin first.

Once we have a firm stance on Matt we can then re-read and go from there.

Basically, scum either targeted RC or Rauth last night.

[nancy]

Yay!

Okay so last question Keyser who are you going to kill tonight?

[Keyser Söze]

If I was a vig: one from LUV/Sheep

If I was scum: one of the town-core/PR's, leave all the suspicious people/VT's alive.

[RadiantCowbells]

@RC - I think what I already said about it, that we should massclaim, and until I get another PR claim i have no interest in lynching Matt today. He is the least towny of the claims, but that still leaves me a lot of preferable lynches before getting near him.

As someone who says they can read her, what do you think of Nancy's flailing around, reversing of reads, and hard wall response to the massclaim? It looks like scum who feels PR walls tightening in around her and her team to me, do you see that at all? Does the play otherwise fit into potential town Nancy play?

Mmm, not quite what I meant. I'm thinking more setup spec wise: how do you think that a jailkeeper fits into the setup as run?
As for nancy, yes I could believe that she could be scum. I'm certainly not townreading her and there's a lot of weirdness in her play. But I still feel like if she's town I will come around on her.
IE, I'm going to postpone her lynch until I am more certain one way or the other. Unfortunately I think there are things you could be seeing that would make her feel 'insincere' but that specifically is NAI.

[nancy]

Alright. This reset has been good and I'm part way through D2 right now. I don't really want to post anything substantial until I've done the full reread and put stuff together but so far I'm sorting Grendel as Town and Sheep as scum. Rauth softed PR D1 so both he and RC are conftown to me. I'm also believing mbg's claim, so that gives me 4 slots sorted into Town so far. Akarin is a townlean, Keyser is a scumlean, everyone else is null. Wouldn't be surprised if both Sheep and LUV are scum tbh considering LUV has totally abandoned this thread.

[Keyser Söze]

I usually expect scum to more often defend town, than their scum partner.

I have already subconsciously writen off a LUV-Nancy scum-team (VCA), but now looking back at LUV-Transcend interactions:

LUV gives a town-meta defense of Transcend:

Why's that pinging you? Transcend doesn't strike me as one to prod dodge unless it's something IRL related.

LUV telling me to look at Transcend's motivation than attacking his playstyle:

Why not ask him to show you what he's doing or show you how he does what he's doing so you can feel better at ease? You sound a bit reluctant to approach his play style this way.

LUV questioning Rauth why he thought Transcend was scum:

Why are you scum reading Transcend?

LUV chastising RC over his treatment towards Transcend:

This push is shit. You call for Transcend to start contributing but you sounded so fixated on your view of him already I highly doubt you would've dropped wanting to essentially policy lynch him no matter how hard he would've tried. Why didn't you attempt to see why Transcend had the thoughts he had on each player and engage him on each of those reads? I can see why he felt the way he did about Keyser for example and would've offered the small amount of meta knowledge I have on him.

LUV expressing a clear town-read of Nancy (Transcend's replacement):

I'm really feeling nancy for town and even with what I learned, your play here just seems survivalistic.

LUV stating that he scum-reads Sheep for his push on the Transcend slot:

I am scum reading Sheep mainly because of his push on the Transcend slot and PoE.

@nancy: Sheep's entire push on your slot is why you're still my strongest town read.

OK, I am going to rule out scum-scum in LUV-Nancy.

Either both town, or scum-town/town-scum.

Other 'defending' interactions from LUV that put me off scum-team combinations:

LUV defending Rauth D1:

I think him being himself has been enough so far.

it seems like you want him to purposely go out of character.

LUV ruling out scum-Vifam/Frogger:

Vifam probably isn't scum sadly.

[RadiantCowbells]

I agree with Keyser here although I had that established a long time ago

[Grendel]

In class.

Checking in to avoid prod.

Will be back tonight.

[Keyser Söze]

Akarin has not picked up his prod. While he technically has two hours and change to do so, I have begun the replacement search.

Any update on Lil Uzi Vert too?

Time to unleash Daphne...

[Cooperative Sheep]

@RC - I see no actual issue with a JKer in the setup, though consider it the least elegant of the options.

Cop, Backup Cop, BP kind of works with no protective role needed.
JKer is...well, I can sorta buy it, because it's sorta a protective role that toys with things, but I also consider it on the beefy side (albeit without another scum flip that's a debatable assessment because it might be balanced...and also there was that push about how games on this site that people called 'balanced' were, in fact, scum sided, so...)

I think it works, but it's not a slam dunk to my mind, and as stated he would be my first lynch choice of all of you in a heartbeat, as a JKer/Cop/BP seems less likely to me than a Cop/JKer or a Backup/Cop/BP, which are really the only other possible combos due to the Rauth/you connection - plus it jives more with the reads I had prior to the claims,a nd it's good not to ignore those.

[RadiantCowbells]

So this might be something that is only a me-personally thing but I think BP is a weird thing to put into a setup.

To me this whole situation makes MORE sense if there's a jailkeeper because then my role exists to give false results to said bulletproof. negative utility in that sense.

[Pine]

Did you know I'm a Ravenclaw?

Me too! My friends say I'm a Slytherin, but that is Fucking Horseshit.

[Pine]

Akarin has not picked up his prod. While he technically has two hours and change to do so, I have begun the replacement search.

Any update on Lil Uzi Vert too?

Sigh. Prodding. I could have sworn he was on V/LA, but that was last week. My bad.

[Fro99er]

alright, game over in another game.

sheep is scum by meta too

i'll talk more later tonight -- just got back from a weekend of doing stuff

[Grendel]

It looked like you were purposely leaving out how you agreed with me.

Because openly agreeing with a scum read could smudge your shiny ethos badge.

So you're saying my thought process was "Aw man, I simply *must* agreewith Grendel's lovely point, but I can't afford to have people notice that. i know, I'll call out Grendel in this post in a negative light while also agreeing with a point he made and hope he doesn't spot it and bring it up - never mind that I could just simply *not* say I liked the thought and be otherwise fine with everything I'm posting, but I'll try this awkward hide attempt for...no reason at all"

Yeah, I don't think that makes sense.
Shop it if you want.

Personally I could see you thinking that you could soften me by favorably referencing a point I made. But to not draw cross fire you decided against mentioning me by name. I would know what you’re talking about, but odds are nobody else would notice. I’m not saying that this is _what_ you did, but I do think its possible.

I’m noting how you intentionally gave an overtly wordy response with a flare of sarcasm. Sounds like scum offended at an accusation they consider invalid.

Also, if you have us both in the same lynch pool then that would inply your were entertaining the thought right?

Sure. But it's hardly enough of an entertainment to automatically presume everything you say is a lie from scum and not worth being considered.

Lol, I don't think you've been very receptive to the idea of town!Grendel this game. Are you trying to appease a scum read?

What was awkward about the shift?

And the transfer was that I came to was that your push didn't feel like you cared well I was scum, or not. It was for the sake of winning an argument. Obviously I was thinking that your case is wroung, but I don't think that was something I specifically said?

I thought it was pretty OB that I was trying to find my words.

Even in your answer here you're claiming you were "trying to find words" so I would ask you what wasn't awkward with the shift? You kept changing your tune as I questioned you on your motivations - that's awkward at face value. You can argue that it was town motivated awkwardness, but it's silly to suggest it wasn't awkward.

Okay, why don’t you think it was townie awkwardness then?

I also notice that most of your sorting on my slot comes from my responses to your response. How much of my slot have you looked at outside our interactions?
And yes, I do have a purpose in asking this.

[Grendel]

I jailed Keyser night 1, because I felt like he had a decent chance to be killed, and would be a decent person to keep alive.

mattblackguy, explain to me why you jailkeeped me N1, when you came into D2 saying:

Why is Keyser a strong townread? I can see him as scum.

The fact that Keyser didn't make a vote outside of RVS yet was still active is a little concerning.

huh, that’s a good point.

Not only did he switch his reads entering D2, but a negative result should have made you 1/3 less likely to be scum from his pov. Those dance moves aren't very groovy.

Today I think that lynching a claimed pr wouldn't be a good idea.

[Grendel]

Like what are the possibilities here with Rauth getting a No Result and there being no NK? If mbg is Town JK then scum had to have either targeted Rauth or RC or an unclaimed BP. If they targeted Rauth that means they have no RB. If they targeted RC they're happy with their position or potentially Keyser is scum. We have no way of telling which one it was until one of those 3 dies, I think?

If mbg is scum JK then they jailed Rauth and targeted RC or an unclaimed BP. We have no way of telling which until one of the 2 dies.

If mbg is scum goon then they targeted RC or an unclaimed BP but that doesn't explain the No Result. They would have to have a roleblocker or Rauth's claim was fake.

If they had a JK/roleblocker, again, why would they kill RC? That's just a risk you don't take unless you can really afford the consequences should you be wrong.

The only way RC is scum is if Ruath is scum with him.

Which is in my opinion.