Star Wars Rogue One [GAME OVER]

[Heartless]

moi, molla, plz vote pv

[Heartless]

twie, plz get ur fist out of ur ass

[Heartless]

ppl, really this is not brain surgery. the anonymous message is a scum gambit that just didn't happen to work

[Nero Cain]

moi ain't gonna bus

[Heartless]

mastin, plz vote pv

[Heartless]

I've got a

lot

of bullshit to unpack here so let's get started.

What am I insinuating? Just so we are on the same page.

The immediate and obvious answer is "because one of us is scum." You could go with the less OMGUS-y "because their reads are bad and they'll be counted on to push mislynches" angle, but they both serve the function of discrediting our reads.

Now let's get to the Aero post:

This post, if Aero is scum, is calling out his scumbuddy in a manner that does not allow him to bus easily, because it's not very aggressive, and does not make Pine look more town, because it's not requesting exposition.

What? That's preposterous. What about this post would prevent Aero from jumping on Pine late-wagon if he needed to? It wouldn't. In fact, it would make the bus look more convincing ("Look, I wasn't just cutting my losses, I was building on previous suspicion.")
For context, Antihero voted Pine on the previous page and at that point Pine was a 3-man wagon. It would make perfect sense for Aero!scum to call Pine scum for distancing purposes but not give the wagon any momentum by actually voting.

Scum interaction if Aero were scum would be to attack the read, or agree/sheep the read, not call them out for a completely different part of the post.

"Call them out" is a

very

generous assessment of what Aero did in Post 1076. It's a gentle poke at best. It's also hard to argue the impact of the "call out" when mastina already got on Pine's case for the "boring" line in Post 520.

In addition, scum doesn't bother with the second half of the post. This is all like 600 posts later, so Aero is reading through looking for things that ping him. If he is scum, he doesn't spend time on his buddy and then ever so weakly agree with him.

Why not? I don't get your point or why that would be so unlikely.

Same here. No reason to create an associative with a scumbuddy without townreading or bussing them. He is commenting on stuff that interests him.

The assertion that scum can't engage in idle musings about each other's posting is patently absurd. And you've never seen scum put each other in the "null read" section on their reads lists? "Either bussing or townreading" isn't a scum model that holds up to any amount of thought. Furthermore I don't think it would occur to anyone to think that exchange was particularly telling or "associative" as you're calling it. The third sentence may or may not be true, but is not alignment indicative.

Clarifying his previous stance. This one is less about Pine, but include Mastina, who I more strongly scumread when I first read through.

Clarifying his previous stance

to subtly discredit mastina's read

. Aero is going out of his way to point out mastina

can't

justify a

hard

scumread on Pine with just that kind of RVS logic.
Given that Pine was scum, that doesn't sound particularly town to me. That sounds like a soft defense.

[Heartless]

The anonymous message seems suspect on so many levels. For us to believe it we have to believe there is:

A. A role that gets alignment and role as a result
B. A role that can send messages and has that knowledge

??????

I guess I don't really know what to make of it?

If you're getting ready to delve into the argument that "scum can't be

that

incompetent" I urge you to make use of Occam's razor and realize that

yes they can

. For anybody to believe it, they would just have to miss "anonymous message" for the pretty mod colors and bolding and/or treat it like mod confirmed information, like Nero Cain was doing for a while. Personally, I think it's more likely that Anti's on the right track. It simply didn't occur to scum that it would show up titled an "Anonymous Message" and they thought the mod would just post the message with the vote count and no one would question if it was really mod-provided information.

[ɀefiend]

The Thinker ROLE PM

Welcome! You are

Cassian Andor

,

Rogue Two ,

2 Shot Vigilante

.

You are aligned with the

Rebel Alliance

.

Nachoammma8 Role PM

Welcome! You are

Raddus

, Admiral

Vanilla Townie

.

You are aligned with the

Rebel Alliance

.

Note the "Blue Four" part:

Desperado Role PM

Welcome! You are

Barion Raner

, Blue Four

Vanilla Townie

.

You are aligned with the

Rebel Alliance

.

Klingoncelt Role PM

Welcome! You are

Davits Draven

, Rebel General

Vanilla Townie

.

You are aligned with the

Rebel Alliance

.

SirCakez Role PM

Welcome! You are

R2-D2

, a Droid

Vanilla Townie

.

You are aligned with the

Rebel Alliance

.

Infinity 324 Role PM

Welcome! You are

C-3P0

, a Droid

Vanilla Townie

.

You are aligned with the

Rebel Alliance

.

Anonymous Message

PeregrineV is

Antoc Merrick

,

Blue One

Vanilla Townie

. He is aligned with the

Rebel Alliance

.

Which one of these is not like the others? The black text instead of white -- I could understand. But the coloring of "Blue One" blue seems like a mistake, trying to make the role seem more legit. However, "Blue Four" is not colored in actual PMs. You said that it was your role PM,

verbatim

. If you actually looked at your role PM (or just looked at the dead PMs...) you wouldn't format it like that unless you were faking it.

VOTE: Peregrine

[Nero Cain]

I've devoted plenty of posting to why I suspect Mastin. Do you really think that if I had not backed up my Mastin stance there'd be virtually no heat on me? Like this stance you have that I haven't explained why I'm scum reading Mastin and everyone is just ignoring that is fucking laughable and I don't see how you'd ever believe that. But also, 3116, 3120 is Mastin and I's little back and forth. There is also 3159. While its true that I have more content with Titus today its not like I haven't been mum on Mastina. I also think it should be a simple concept that Titus and I having a back and forth conversation b/c Titus was here is going to produce more content than a lurking Mastina.

The conclusions you are drawing here are odd.

The point isn’t that there must be a wagon on someone to vote them or that one vote is inherently Ok / Not Ok.

The point is that you spent significant time and resources pushing Titus in thread, didn’t do the same on Mastin

You can't make it a talking point that it was odd that I voted Mastina over Titus 'cause there wasn't a wagon on Mastina and then when I point out that there also wasn't a wagon on Titus you try pretend that wasn't your point.

You are right though that I haven't really spent much time talking about my scum read on PV. Its just gut but I am currently buying into the "scum gambit" theory.

[Heartless]

Read his catchup again, still don'tt think it's scummy.

Where did you "talk about it more"? I cant find it.

It's quoted right on the page of this post. There was also a lengthy discussion between Anti, zefiend, Infinity, and Titus (among others) where zefiend's reads post and progression on his mastina read were central issues.
You couldn't have really missed all of that if you even took a cursory look at posts in the 90s page range and you're putting a lot more effort into mouthing off than actually attempting to understand the zefiend read.

Yeah, so you can also explain this while you are at it.

Now let me tell you why stacking these posts and acting like they're scummy is a big, steaming load of horseshit.
First, there's the simple fact that the two posts were made under fundamentally different conditions. Post 1341 was made on Day 1, before any flips, and Post 3075 was made on Day 3, after Pine had already flipped scum. That changes the lens I view the posts through. Sure Aero's anti-Pine point in Post 1075 was a fair one, but was there any semblance of a concerted Pine push or a vote on Pine when it mattered? No.
Then there's the other set of eyes and brain on this game who is on record in this thread as having doubts about the Aero slot in Post 1613 and he's since acquired a strong scumread on the second occupant of the slot, zefiend. In our conversations about this game, he repeatedly insisted the zefiend slot was scum for the same reasons he's giving in this game thread. Since I respect him and value his opinion, I re-evaluated my initial Aeronaut read and realized it might not have been accurate. These kinds of things happen in a functional and healthy hydra.

[Firebringer]

Vote Count 4.03

zefiend [1] Aj the Epic
PeregrineV [3] Heartless, Nero Cain, Zefiend
Nero Cain [1] Drunken Piper
TheWayItEnds [1] BBmolla
Zefiend [1] Magnaofillusion

Not Voting - [3] TheWayItEnds, PeregrineV, Mastina,

With 10 Alive, It Takes 6 To Lynch.

Rogue Leader Vote:

Drunken Piper (1) Nero Cain

Mod Notes - May the flavor be with you.

Day 4 ends in (expired on 2017-02-28 00:26:20)!

[Firebringer]

mastina is being prodded.

[mastina]

Sorry, was caught up on modding, meant to get here earlier but had dance, here now, gimme a bit to catch up on what I've missed.

[mastina]

mastin what are some things I do that look town?

This game?

None.

In other games?

A ton.

When you are town, you are really obviously town.
Not so much here!

[mastina]

you

KNOW

this is townNero so why would a presumably townMastin pretend like she doesn't know that?

To be honest: I need to refresh my memory on your scumgame.

Like.

It used to be simple.

You and Antihero both had the same tell: lurking. It was a very strong, VERY reliable tell. You lurked, you were scum; you did stuff, you weren't scum.

Tell me, does that tell still hold true?

If it doesn't, then what that means is I lack a baseline for what your scumgame actually

is

. Sure I know what the town-Nero looks like. Sure I've been assuming this is the town-Nero I've known. But I don't have exposure to your recent scum self--so I don't have the absolute assurance of you being town.

As a result, you're someone I'm looking at.

Of Molla/zefiend/Titus/PeregrineV/Nero, you are the one least likely to be scum.
You are the one who I am probably right to have townread.
But I am not going to blindly assume I was right. No, I'm going to do research.

[mastina]

zefiend's 3258 is pretty much a scumclaim, btw.
Coming down with a cold, so won't be devoting much effort to this game at the moment (want to get rid of that sickness fast), but I think people really just need to read it.

[mastina]

zefiend [1] Aj the Epic
PeregrineV [2] Heartless, Nero Cain
Nero Cain [1] Titus
TheWayItEnds [2] Zefiend, BBmolla
Not Voting - [3] TheWayItEnds, PeregrineV, Mastina,

Anonymous Message

PeregrineV is

Antoc Merrick

,

Blue One

Vanilla Townie

. He is aligned with the

Rebel Alliance

.

Yeah, don't think this really needs much explaining.
TWIE is town; that wagon is abysmal.

And also,
VOTE: PeregrineV.

[mastina]

Magnaofillusion has replaced Titus. Please welcome him.

Well that has to be the shortest blacklist ever.

[BBmolla]

mastin what are some things I do that look town?

This game?

None.

In other games?

A ton.

When you are town, you are really obviously town.
Not so much here!

[BBmolla]

I think I'm just playing a shit game tbh

[BBmolla]

And I know I would use that as an excuse as scum but it is what it is.

[BBmolla]

Are we sure this isn't a scum plot to get Pv lynched? Scum Rolecop + Scum Messenger?

[mastina]

I didn’t realize mastin is in this game or I would not have taken the slot. I’m not replacing out as it’s my fault and I have to suck it up and deal with it.

For what it's worth, I hold no problems with you.
I mean, personally, I think you can sometimes be an asshole, and even when you're not, you can be a royal pain in the ass anyway, but you are by far not unique in those qualities as a player on this site. Plus, couldn't exactly call you out on it without a disclaimer about pots and kettles and the color black.

Grain of salt? Given how he worked Town over in Camn’s game I would expect you’d be throwing the whole shaker of salt at anything he said. Why bother to give it any credence at all?

Because *I* wasn't the one Pine fooled that game.
*I* was actually right on most of my predictions about Pine--not exactly on the money, but fairly close to it.
*I* actually massacred him. When *I* was alive, the town dominated--we had two of the three scum in our sights, and I was right to make the calls I was making.
Then I died.
And with ME dead, Pine worked

the rest

of the town. The surviving town. The town with me removed from it.

So while I take Pine's words with grains of salt, I'm not going to empty an ocean into it.

[mastina]

At this stage I would be reasonably comfortable in making a zefiend-PV-Molla callout for a scumteam, given their play/interaction.

[mastina]

I guess I don't really know what to make of it?

This does not follow from 3366.
"The message is suspect". Instead of voting, we get:
"I don't know what to make of it".

This is why Molla's scum with PV.