Mini Normal 1879 Bringer Mafia II [Game Over]

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I'm not calling out cases for being hypocritical, I'm calling them out for being about hypocrisy.

Your case, to my mind, is based around an opinion of a given question being scummy vibing and a similar one not being - I think you're playing on the same hypocrisy basketball court they are, but you're claiming you're playing volleyball. I think it's a squint to call it not about the same foundation, and even if it is, it's about the 'feels' you get - and that's not a feel I'm getting.

I'm still fine calling Chaos scum though, I just got there on the WK road.

This reads like you don't want to try to understand why people are reading your behavior as scum motivated.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Spoiler: Why I think Gerry is scum

58, 134, 136, and 152

What first pinged me about Gerry before I did my first reread of his ISO was his 58. On the surface it looks like just filler, but if you look and think it about it on a deeper level, he's arguable treating himself as confirmed town that shouldn't be considered for a lynch today by anyone for getting the game out of RVS as well as starting a wagon on Sheep.

Fast forward to a bit to 134, he does the same thing again by discrediting not only Naomi's read on him but also her as a player by bringing up a previous game without any context in which he claims he got two members of the scum team lynched.

136 is self explanatory.

I'm inclined to believe 152 is more scum motivated than town motivated and it only reinforces my read on him. He's hints at a PR of some sort and says he shouldn't be lynched today. There was no pressure on him at the time and the overall focus was on Sheep as well as the various arguments Frog was getting into so it was odd for him to drop that soft like it's hot and just leave. Scum have more to gain by bread crumbing in my opinion. It helps them with fake claiming and it can potential draw doctors and jail keepers to them.

TL:DR: Gerry has been been basically treating himself as confirmed town since RVS ended.

I think Gerry tried to distance from Sheep early and it sort of backfired a bit. I also think he could be just scum that tried to spread and pray on paranoia early and Sheep is town.

If we lynch Gerry today, we'll probably feel a lot better about Sheep's alignment

[Lil Uzi Vert]

VOTE: Gerry

[ChaosOmega]

CO -- thanks for the reply. Lots of good stuff in there I'm trying to parse, because it's left me kind of mixed. If you are town, us working together with AJ, who I think is town, should almost guarantee a town win.

1) Do you think I'm scum? Simple yes/no and why or why not.

2) The dash of WIFOM part I absolutely thought about after I posted my wall. You probably would stay away from me if you are scum. But yeah, WIFOM.

UNVOTE:

I think AJ is town as well.

1) Probably not. Your push on Sheep reads as genuine, at least in terms of frustration and how you're pushing him. Your jump onto me didn't read like you hopping on the wagon to push a mislynch, your earlier posts had raised some issues with me, it read as more of a continuation than opportunism.

2) Yeah, it is, that's why I had the disclaimer, lol. I like staying in the background as scum, since I tend not to post much regardless of alignment.

------

Now, let's talk about why WhemeStar is obvious scum that needs to be dead like now.

In my wall response to frogger, I mentioned WhemeStar's 150, and how it read as blatant appeasement and not trying to gamesolve at all. The whole frogger-WhemeStar convo from 144 to 151 is good to look at. frogger expresses suspicion of Wheme if Sheep flips town, and Wheme seems worried about it in response, asking why in 145 and then nervously trying to figure out what frogger is scumreading him for in 148, and then the pathetic placation in 150. If Wheme was town, why the fuck would he just roll over like that and try to appease frogger as opposed to confronting him? It's like he knows he's guilty, and is just trying to be nice and fade into the background. This exchange is part of the reason I'm not sold on Sheep-scum, since I'm assuming Wheme is scum and his reaction would not have been like that if Sheep was his partner; he would just shut up and take the town-cred on a Sheep lynch.

Wheme was townreading Sheep for most of this game from the beginning (56, 307, 332, etc.). After a reread in 365, he posts in 458 that Sheep is possible scum:

Sheep and Frogger have been going at it all game. At first I thought it was froggy just trying to get reactions out of others, but then it kept going on and on. After reading both of their posts over and over I think sheep is trying to just blame froggy of not reading his posts/answering his questions/misrepping him. Which I think is a scummy move, just asking questions over and over again. I thought sheep's slip wasn't really a slip, but his posts lately have me thinking he is possible scum.

Here's what you said earlier in 332 about them:

I feel this game is just sheep/froggy arguing with each other, and I think their both town. I like the way sheepy defended himself and how froggy pushed him. They are still both town reads for me.

I'm not just giving you shit here for your reads changing, because they should. But this change doesn't read natural at all. In 332, your town read on Sheep is explicitly from how he is defending himself, and now in 458, his defense is why he is scummy. It's a complete 180 with no progression.

Let's talk about your readlist in 507:

Froggy
Naomi
Tereta - Like his posts and his pushes on me and others
AJ - like how he pushes some people like Tereta is, asked questions to get discussion.

EC - FFS get an avatar pls, I like how he pushed me for not explaining in detail with Hawk.
Gerry - Doesn't post much, but I don't think that scum would be so obvious
Lil Uzi - Posts don't contain much but every once in a while he posts something good, like post #287
Hawk - I don't really see where he fell off, can someone help explain that too me?
Chaos - I agree with others saying he tried to derail Sheep's wagon
Penguin - Not much to say with him only having 6 posts.

Sheep- Don't really like how his response to frog was mostey questions, and then called out frog for being scum by not answering said questions.
Lowell - HIs post counteracts itself when he said that he likes AJ because he is a lurker but when he posts his reads are spot on, but AJ called him scum earlier.

- Why is Gerry so much higher than Penguin here? Reasoning for each would seem to indicate they'd be next to each other.
- Look at how he townreads Tereta and EC for pushing him. He doesn't challenge them for being wrong, it's like how he tried to resolve the same issue with frogger, say their play is pro-town and hope they leave him alone.
- So Lowell is supposedly his biggest scumread, yet the reasoning for it is so lame. It's nothing but a slip that other people had talked about prior.

Also, Terata's case in 460 is good and I agree with all of it. Don't wanna rehash it, but it's part of why WhemeStar needs to be dead.

Also also, his reaction to frogger's vote/reasoning:

VOTE: Wheme

sheeping Terata's case. It's basically what I was about to say wrt Wheme not having any unique reads but painting them as his own thoughts.

I actually think Wheme is my strongest scumread of the game now, and lord knows I've been all over the place.

Im not trying to paint them as my own thoughts, they haven't. Sorry if it seems that way.

Ill try to do this piece by piece, too try and show that I'm trying my best to help out town. Sorry if you prefer me to give my opinions in one big post though.

So your opinions aren't your own thoughts?

[Lowell]

Yo Mitchell.

terata is town.

I think he's made an excellent case against WhemeStar. Are you basing your town read on him entirely on that?

But nvm that for now, I just caught a scum

And you say that with 100% confidence? WhemeStar

is

scum, not just probably?

I don't know the status of my vote or various wagons, but I'm ready to vote EC. This is classic derailment.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Am I missing something with AJ?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Wheme has been obvious scum since minute 1 which is why I've opted to just ignore him and look for his partners. If we can lynch his partners first, he'll probably just concede.

[ECMitchell]

I don't know the status of my vote or various wagons, but I'm ready to vote EC. This is classic derailment.

"Obvious derailment" while my vote remains firmly on WhemeStar and I've said I want to see them lynched today? You think the hunt should stop because one single person is most probably scum?

You also realize the hypocrisy of your post, yes? "He's derailing! I'm so ready to vote him now!"

Please.

Terata also just got saying he'll only respond to my points against him if others agree, or if he starts feeling the pressure. That paired with everything else? I've never seen more scummy play to be quite honest. If WhemeStar turns scum, my vote tomorrow will be placed on Terata and will not change.

[Aj The Epic]

No, if Wheme is scum, game's over because his partners are Lowell/Hawk.

[Firebringer]

This game started with one idea. Take a bunch of random people and throw them in a room and do random things to them. I like to think, we made a great decision here. Next time, we will throw in a bunch of people we pick out and have them do things according to a script. Call it reality tv or something.

Vote Count #1.07:

WhemeStar [L-3] ChaosOmega, ECMitchell, Terata, Fro99er
Hawk [L-4] Aj the Epic, Cooperative Sheep, WhemeStar
ChaosOmega [L-5] Terata, Lowell
Cooperative Sheep [L-5] PenguinPower
Lowell [L-5] Naomi-Tan, WhemeStar
Lil Uzi Vert [L-6] Hawk
Gerryoat [L-6] Lil Uzi Vert,

Not Voting (1): gerryoat,

With 13 people alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

V/LA:

None.

Deadline:

(expired on 2017-02-13 15:45:00)

[gerryoat]

Spoiler: Why I think Gerry is scum

58, 134, 136, and 152

What first pinged me about Gerry before I did my first reread of his ISO was his 58. On the surface it looks like just filler, but if you look and think it about it on a deeper level, he's arguable treating himself as confirmed town that shouldn't be considered for a lynch today by anyone for getting the game out of RVS as well as starting a wagon on Sheep.

Fast forward to a bit to 134, he does the same thing again by discrediting not only Naomi's read on him but also her as a player by bringing up a previous game without any context in which he claims he got two members of the scum team lynched.

136 is self explanatory.

I'm inclined to believe 152 is more scum motivated than town motivated and it only reinforces my read on him. He's hints at a PR of some sort and says he shouldn't be lynched today. There was no pressure on him at the time and the overall focus was on Sheep as well as the various arguments Frog was getting into so it was odd for him to drop that soft like it's hot and just leave. Scum have more to gain by bread crumbing in my opinion. It helps them with fake claiming and it can potential draw doctors and jail keepers to them.

TL:DR: Gerry has been been basically treating himself as confirmed town since RVS ended.

I think Gerry tried to distance from Sheep early and it sort of backfired a bit. I also think he could be just scum that tried to spread and pray on paranoia early and Sheep is town.

If we lynch Gerry today, we'll probably feel a lot better about Sheep's alignment

ah ok. you're wrong tho. and i already said i was a powerful role.

[Aj The Epic]

Dude if this is how you want to act and the extent to which you can contribute, feel free to shut up and get carried.

[gerryoat]

who? me? lol

[Aj The Epic]

Bro your iso has less useful information than the nutritional facts memo on a bottle of water.

[gerryoat]

Bro your iso has less useful information than the nutritional facts memo on a bottle of water.

[PenguinPower]

I'll actually read later on.

Liar.

_____________________________

Spoiler: Spoilered wall post that I skimmed and liked

"What are all these bolded lines" you ask. Well it's all the things that pinged me in this post.
He seems super apologetic in his wordings which i haven't really seen from his previous play, an example being "im trying my best to help town" (talking about town as a seperate entity). I also had a problem with how he tries to take credit for coming up with certain reads that he clearly sheeped from others in the thread. If he said he sheeped them it would be completely fine, but he talks like he thought them up himself. Specifically the one about Lowell slipping about AJ's reads but also a little about the Sheep read, which was summarized with what problems other's have had with Sheep all game (and this is after he read the posts "over and over").

He made sure to point out someone who had done less pro-town things than he has (gerry) which mafia loves to do when they feel they're getting pressure even though there are towns not showing towniness. And he KEPT saying he's having the same null/townread about Gerry which he had for the same reason as earlier that had been called out by BOTH gerry and frogg, who you're still saying pointed out the initial slip. He just won't back down from his initial statement even though it's clearly wrong, and that's much more scummy than being wrong in the first place in this scenario. Also, why would he even say Gerry's been contributing less than he has if he's still null-townreading gerry? Seems like standard shade to me.

Last but not least i dislike in what form he gives his Naomi read. He says it like "I also think Lowell is wrong on Naomi..." as to shade Lowell (his scumread) for being wrong on a town, which seems like a tmi read to me if i've ever seen one. That read just doesn't come naturally to you to call Lowell wrong in your case on him if you don't know the alignment of the person being read. And disliked how he phrased "id like to vote" at the end. A struggling finish to a scummy post.

This is what a confident vote looks like VOTE: WhemeStar !

(Chaos made me doubt since his comeback)

Sheep fell apart. I can do Wheme.

VOTE: Wheme

Also, most of my reads are sheeps from other people

Want me to reveal?

I'm going to try and vote you again.
VOTE: Wheme
_______________________________

Spoiler: Why I think Gerry is scum

58, 134, 136, and 152

What first pinged me about Gerry before I did my first reread of his ISO was his 58. On the surface it looks like just filler, but if you look and think it about it on a deeper level, he's arguable treating himself as confirmed town that shouldn't be considered for a lynch today by anyone for getting the game out of RVS as well as starting a wagon on Sheep.

Fast forward to a bit to 134, he does the same thing again by discrediting not only Naomi's read on him but also her as a player by bringing up a previous game without any context in which he claims he got two members of the scum team lynched.

136 is self explanatory.

I'm inclined to believe 152 is more scum motivated than town motivated and it only reinforces my read on him. He's hints at a PR of some sort and says he shouldn't be lynched today. There was no pressure on him at the time and the overall focus was on Sheep as well as the various arguments Frog was getting into so it was odd for him to drop that soft like it's hot and just leave. Scum have more to gain by bread crumbing in my opinion. It helps them with fake claiming and it can potential draw doctors and jail keepers to them.

TL:DR: Gerry has been been basically treating himself as confirmed town since RVS ended.

I think Gerry tried to distance from Sheep early and it sort of backfired a bit. I also think he could be just scum that tried to spread and pray on paranoia early and Sheep is town.

If we lynch Gerry today, we'll probably feel a lot better about Sheep's alignment

LUV moves up in my townreads to join Fro99er and Naomi. Congrats on the promotion. Unfortunately there is no pay raise associated.

[gerryoat]

^last line was really forced.

[PenguinPower]

It was actually fairly easy to quote and type.

[WhemeStar]

Im not really too great with doing the multiple quote things so Im not gonna try. But this post is in response to Chaos's. Bold words are chaos's.

Now, let's talk about why WhemeStar is obvious scum that needs to be dead like now.

In my wall response to frogger, I mentioned WhemeStar's 150, and how it read as blatant appeasement and not trying to gamesolve at all. The whole frogger-WhemeStar convo from 144 to 151 is good to look at. frogger expresses suspicion of Wheme if Sheep flips town, and Wheme seems worried about it in response, asking why in 145 and then nervously trying to figure out what frogger is scumreading him for in 148, and then the pathetic placation in 150. If Wheme was town, why the fuck would he just roll over like that and try to appease frogger as opposed to confronting him? It's like he knows he's guilty, and is just trying to be nice and fade into the background. This exchange is part of the reason I'm not sold on Sheep-scum, since I'm assuming Wheme is scum and his reaction would not have been like that if Sheep was his partner; he would just shut up and take the town-cred on a Sheep lynch.

You know, its really hard to get emotion right over words typed on a screen, because I wasn't nervous at all then. I was just wondering why he would suspect me because its my first normal game and I had no clue on what his reasons were. Yes, I was town reading sheep for the early part of the game, because I thought the slip on him and push on him was weak, but I didn't like his responses over time.

- Why is Gerry so much higher than Penguin here? Reasoning for each would seem to indicate they'd be next to each other.
- Look at how he townreads Tereta and EC for pushing him. He doesn't challenge them for being wrong, it's like how he tried to resolve the same issue with frogger, say their play is pro-town and hope they leave him alone.
- So Lowell is supposedly his biggest scumread, yet the reasoning for it is so lame. It's nothing but a slip that other people had talked about prior.

Because Gerry has been here all game, Penguin was late to the party.
I said they pushed me and others, which isn't that what a town should do? Push people even if the person their pushing may be town?
The slip on Sheep wasn't really a slip either, look where that got us.

So your opinions aren't your own thoughts?

My opinions are thoughts of others jumbled into what I like, and what I don't like. I admit I need to work with coming up with my own thoughts/ideas.

[WhemeStar]

I'll actually read later on.

Liar.

_____________________________

Spoiler: Spoilered wall post that I skimmed and liked

"What are all these bolded lines" you ask. Well it's all the things that pinged me in this post.
He seems super apologetic in his wordings which i haven't really seen from his previous play, an example being "im trying my best to help town" (talking about town as a seperate entity). I also had a problem with how he tries to take credit for coming up with certain reads that he clearly sheeped from others in the thread. If he said he sheeped them it would be completely fine, but he talks like he thought them up himself. Specifically the one about Lowell slipping about AJ's reads but also a little about the Sheep read, which was summarized with what problems other's have had with Sheep all game (and this is after he read the posts "over and over").

He made sure to point out someone who had done less pro-town things than he has (gerry) which mafia loves to do when they feel they're getting pressure even though there are towns not showing towniness. And he KEPT saying he's having the same null/townread about Gerry which he had for the same reason as earlier that had been called out by BOTH gerry and frogg, who you're still saying pointed out the initial slip. He just won't back down from his initial statement even though it's clearly wrong, and that's much more scummy than being wrong in the first place in this scenario. Also, why would he even say Gerry's been contributing less than he has if he's still null-townreading gerry? Seems like standard shade to me.

Last but not least i dislike in what form he gives his Naomi read. He says it like "I also think Lowell is wrong on Naomi..." as to shade Lowell (his scumread) for being wrong on a town, which seems like a tmi read to me if i've ever seen one. That read just doesn't come naturally to you to call Lowell wrong in your case on him if you don't know the alignment of the person being read. And disliked how he phrased "id like to vote" at the end. A struggling finish to a scummy post.

This is what a confident vote looks like VOTE: WhemeStar !

(Chaos made me doubt since his comeback)

Sheep fell apart. I can do Wheme.

VOTE: Wheme

Also, most of my reads are sheeps from other people

Want me to reveal?

I'm going to try and vote you again.
VOTE: Wheme
_______________________________

Spoiler: Why I think Gerry is scum

58, 134, 136, and 152

What first pinged me about Gerry before I did my first reread of his ISO was his 58. On the surface it looks like just filler, but if you look and think it about it on a deeper level, he's arguable treating himself as confirmed town that shouldn't be considered for a lynch today by anyone for getting the game out of RVS as well as starting a wagon on Sheep.

Fast forward to a bit to 134, he does the same thing again by discrediting not only Naomi's read on him but also her as a player by bringing up a previous game without any context in which he claims he got two members of the scum team lynched.

136 is self explanatory.

I'm inclined to believe 152 is more scum motivated than town motivated and it only reinforces my read on him. He's hints at a PR of some sort and says he shouldn't be lynched today. There was no pressure on him at the time and the overall focus was on Sheep as well as the various arguments Frog was getting into so it was odd for him to drop that soft like it's hot and just leave. Scum have more to gain by bread crumbing in my opinion. It helps them with fake claiming and it can potential draw doctors and jail keepers to them.

TL:DR: Gerry has been been basically treating himself as confirmed town since RVS ended.

I think Gerry tried to distance from Sheep early and it sort of backfired a bit. I also think he could be just scum that tried to spread and pray on paranoia early and Sheep is town.

If we lynch Gerry today, we'll probably feel a lot better about Sheep's alignment

LUV moves up in my townreads to join Fro99er and Naomi. Congrats on the promotion. Unfortunately there is no pay raise associated.

@Penguin, what is wrong with asking to reveal? I asked the question because votes were being put on me and people suspected me so I didn't know if I should reveal or not. But oh well, Ill do it anyway.

Im a

Town Odd Night Rolestopper.

. Sorry if my actions don't seem towny, Im working on it still.

[Fro99er]

UNVOTE:

that could very easily be a scum role. OTOH, scum have daychat...why wouldn't they coach Wheme more and tell him not to seem so eager to claim?

[Fro99er]

Wheme why the f did you offer to out your role at like L-3 or L-4?

[WhemeStar]

UNVOTE:

that could very easily be a scum role. OTOH, scum have daychat...why wouldn't they coach Wheme more and tell him not to seem so eager to claim?

With the wagon on me they are doing a bad job on coaching me then.

[WhemeStar]

Wheme why the f did you offer to out your role at like L-3 or L-4?

This is my first game as a role other than VT. Didn't know if I should or not, didn't think it was a big deal to ask if I should or not

[Fro99er]

UNVOTE:

that could very easily be a scum role. OTOH, scum have daychat...why wouldn't they coach Wheme more and tell him not to seem so eager to claim?

With the wagon on me they are doing a bad job on coaching me then.