Mini Normal 1879 Bringer Mafia II [Game Over]

[Terata]

also feels like everyone ignored my case dismissing it as OMGUS when it pointed out obvious missreping and multiple times they contradicted themselves within their own post.

contradiction isn't inherently wolfy. meh

[Cooperative Sheep]

I consider the manipulation to fall within that same vein,

manipulation is the same thing as hypocrisy?

Bullshit. You just don't want to admit you're wrong.

You would know what that looks like

Okay, sure, I refuse to admit I'm wrong...and?
I've sorted you- I don't care to interact with you unless this is helping you sort me. So make it quick please, you're unpleasant.

[Fro99er]

I agree Chaos is scum

I don't know.

I'm starting to doubt that based off Chaos' response to my wall. But I want chaos to answer this

CO -- thanks for the reply. Lots of good stuff in there I'm trying to parse, because it's left me kind of mixed. If you are town, us working together with AJ, who I think is town, should almost guarantee a town win.

1) Do you think I'm scum? Simple yes/no and why or why not.

2) The dash of WIFOM part I absolutely thought about after I posted my wall. You probably would stay away from me if you are scum. But yeah, WIFOM.

UNVOTE:

[WhemeStar]

I feel like this game is froggy vs sleepy, and I'm not sure on what to say about it.

[Naomi-Tan]

also feels like everyone ignored my case dismissing it as OMGUS when it pointed out obvious missreping and multiple times they contradicted themselves within their own post.

contradiction isn't inherently wolfy. meh

True but lying to make people look worse than they are is.

[Aj The Epic]

I feel like this game is froggy vs sleepy, and I'm not sure on what to say about it.

No opinion on:

Lowell and my interactions
CO and Frogger's interactions
Sheep's response to it
Gerrygoat in general
Lowell on ECM and Naomi

There's a circus going on and you're just focusing on the last act.

[Terata]

I feel like this game is froggy vs sleepy, and I'm not sure on what to say about it.

you're caught up?

[gerryoat]

I'll actually read later on.

[WhemeStar]

I feel like this game is froggy vs sleepy, and I'm not sure on what to say about it.

No opinion on:

Lowell and my interactions
CO and Frogger's interactions
Sheep's response to it
Gerrygoat in general
Lowell on ECM and Naomi

There's a circus going on and you're just focusing on the last act.

Ill try to do this piece by piece, too try and show that I'm trying my best to help out town. Sorry if you prefer me to give my opinions in one big post though.

Gerrygoat in general has been useless IMO. He hasn't contributed anything to the game (less than me) and I find it suspicious. Only thing he contributed too was saying sheep slipped, and claimed that he was the one who pointed out the slip, but Frogger did IMO. But I don't think mafia would do what gerry is doing, so Im going to say he's null-town

Sheep and Frogger have been going at it all game. At first I thought it was froggy just trying to get reactions out of others, but then it kept going on and on. After reading both of their posts over and over I think sheep is trying to just blame froggy of not reading his posts/answering his questions/misrepping him. Which I think is a scummy move, just asking questions over and over again. I thought sheep's slip wasn't really a slip, but his posts lately have me thinking he is possible scum.

Lowell- I don't like some of his posts, such as iso #2. Where he voted sheep and said "is the slip real? who knows". Seems to me like he didn't have much reason to vote sheep and he didn't really care. I do like his recap on post #355 though. Also said that EC/Naomi flipped when he had a FOS on them, yet I don't see anything that shows them flippinng out. Possible scum.

I find it really strange how Lowell said AJ's posts are spot on and right. Yet in a previous post, AJ said that he thinks Lowell is scum. Is that a slip? I also think that Lowell is wrong on Naomi, she seems genuine town for me, and I will be against a lynch on her for a while.

EC, please get avatar, pls. EC voted me for not explaining my vote on Hawk? Which I thought I did, and I had nothing else to say about it. Used my previous posts as an example of me saying nothing. And said me getting a vote on me is the reason I became substantial. Which was wrong.

If you guys want more or if I missed some things, ask and Ill try to explain best I can.
For now, id like to vote lowell.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Lowell

[WhemeStar]

I feel like this game is froggy vs sleepy, and I'm not sure on what to say about it.

you're caught up?

About there, reading the last 2 pages or so, have been ISOing players though.

[Terata]

I feel like this game is froggy vs sleepy, and I'm not sure on what to say about it.

No opinion on:

Lowell and my interactions
CO and Frogger's interactions
Sheep's response to it
Gerrygoat in general
Lowell on ECM and Naomi

There's a circus going on and you're just focusing on the last act.

Ill try to do this piece by piece, too try and show that

I'm trying my best to help out town

.

Sorry

if you prefer me to give my opinions in one big post though.

Gerrygoat in general has been useless IMO. He hasn't contributed anything to the game (

less than me

) and I find it suspicious.

Only thing he contributed too was saying sheep slipped, and claimed that he was the one who pointed out the slip, but Frogger did IMO. But I don't think mafia would do what gerry is doing, so Im going to say he's null-town

Sheep and Frogger have been going at it all game. At first I thought it was froggy just trying to get reactions out of others, but then it kept going on and on.

After reading both of their posts over and over

I think

sheep is trying to just blame froggy of not reading his posts/answering his questions/misrepping him. Which

I think

is a scummy move, just asking questions over and over again. I thought sheep's slip wasn't really a slip, but his posts lately have me thinking he is possible scum.

Lowell-

I don't like some of his posts, such as iso #2. Where he voted sheep and said "is the slip real? who knows". Seems to me like he didn't have much reason to vote sheep and he didn't really care. I do like his recap on post #355 though. Also said that EC/Naomi flipped when he had a FOS on them, yet I don't see anything that shows them flippinng out. Possible scum.

I find it

really strange how Lowell said AJ's posts are spot on and right. Yet in a previous post, AJ said that he thinks Lowell is scum.

Is that a slip? I also think that Lowell is wrong on Naomi

, she seems genuine town for me, and I will be against a lynch on her for a while.

EC, please get avatar, pls. EC voted me for not explaining my vote on Hawk?

Which I thought I did,

and I had nothing else to say about it. Used my previous posts as an example of me saying nothing. And said me getting a vote on me is the reason I became substantial. Which was wrong.

If you guys want more

or if I missed some things, ask and Ill try to explain best I can.
For now,

id like to

vote lowell.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Lowell

"What are all these bolded lines" you ask. Well it's all the things that pinged me in this post.
He seems super apologetic in his wordings which i haven't really seen from his previous play, an example being "im trying my best to help town" (talking about town as a seperate entity). I also had a problem with how he tries to take credit for coming up with certain reads that he clearly sheeped from others in the thread. If he said he sheeped them it would be completely fine, but he talks like he thought them up himself. Specifically the one about Lowell slipping about AJ's reads but also a little about the Sheep read, which was summarized with what problems other's have had with Sheep all game (and this is after he read the posts "over and over").

He made sure to point out someone who had done less pro-town things than he has (gerry) which mafia loves to do when they feel they're getting pressure even though there are towns not showing towniness. And he KEPT saying he's having the same null/townread about Gerry which he had for the same reason as earlier that had been called out by BOTH gerry and frogg, who you're still saying pointed out the initial slip. He just won't back down from his initial statement even though it's clearly wrong, and that's much more scummy than being wrong in the first place in this scenario. Also, why would he even say Gerry's been contributing less than he has if he's still null-townreading gerry? Seems like standard shade to me.

Last but not least i dislike in what form he gives his Naomi read. He says it like "I also think Lowell is wrong on Naomi..." as to shade Lowell (his scumread) for being wrong on a town, which seems like a tmi read to me if i've ever seen one. That read just doesn't come naturally to you to call Lowell wrong in your case on him if you don't know the alignment of the person being read. And disliked how he phrased "id like to vote" at the end. A struggling finish to a scummy post.

This is what a confident vote looks like VOTE: WhemeStar !

(Chaos made me doubt since his comeback)

[Fro99er]

VOTE: Wheme

sheeping Terata's case. It's basically what I was about to say wrt Wheme not having any unique reads but painting them as his own thoughts.

I actually think Wheme is my strongest scumread of the game now, and lord knows I've been all over the place.

[Lowell]

@ter, tell me what you're seeing in chaos that made you change your mind about him. honestly it looks like your mind was a little too ready to be "changed"

[WhemeStar]

I said with gerrry not contributing he could be town because I don't see in any reality where scum doesn't say anything. Because if you do what Gerry is doing than that will bring suspicion to you.

Also, most of my reads are sheeps from other people, I need to work on making my own reads, I'm new. Right now I read the two sides and agreed one one of them. For instance, as you pointed out. Someone else posted nearly the same thing I did with Lowell's ISO #2. And I agree with that person (forgot who). Same thing with AJ and Lowell, After lowell's reads, AJ said "you said Im town for being spot on with my reads, yet i called you scum".

[WhemeStar]

VOTE: Wheme

sheeping Terata's case. It's basically what I was about to say wrt Wheme not having any unique reads but painting them as his own thoughts.

I actually think Wheme is my strongest scumread of the game now, and lord knows I've been all over the place.

Im not trying to paint them as my own thoughts, they haven't. Sorry if it seems that way.

[ECMitchell]

Calling absolute bull on this one. Show me the receipts.

The only person I've "attacked" for filler so far has been Gerroat. I quoted all of WhemeStar's initial posts to prove against their statement that they already explained their vote against Hawk in the first couple of pages—which they really didn't.

Also, the bold text in your quote suggests you see me as a lurker. Care to elaborate on that? Since I've been added as a replacement I've been on top of this game fully.

Now about avoiding conflict, I have two responses to that:

• I'm not. I don't exactly see how calling out two players (Fro99er, Naomi) for their play styles and persisting that a player justifies their vote (WhemeStar) constitutes "avoiding conflict."
  
  
• If I was, what exactly would your point be? Avoiding conflict isn't necessarily a bad thing, particularly this early in the game. Right now we're still about deliberation and facilitating discussion. I don't have to be going at people like Fro99er is Cooperative Sheep to advance the game in this stage.

Okay,

now

I'm really leaving for the day. Just had to respond to that one.

this is not a towny response to pressure. Strong emotion without really wolf reading him, just wanting to prove him wrong and get him on another path. This last sentence especially shows he was just

responding

, and not doing anything active in terms of solving the player he lashed out on.

Simple defense isn't really something towns get super engaged in unless they're really forced to IME,

and even in that they constantly consider the pushing person's alignment more than i see this post doing.

Apologies, but I'm afraid I don't understand at all what you're getting at here. You dislike my post because you feel the emotion in it is too strong against a player I haven't explicitly stated as scum—I trust that's what you mean by "wolf read?" Are you saying that players should only defend themselves against players they feel are scum? And, to confirm, are you saying by the bold text that it's a scum tell to defend yourself before being threatened with action of lynch? If so, you'd be seriously wrong.

And, yes, my post was a response to Lowell without offering any read on him. You're saying that's a scum tell?

[Firebringer]

A recent development in mod technology has come out. Did you hear about this? Apparently we can do auto vote counts. I say the traditional way is better though, so if you were hoping this game would get more efficient! HAHAHA, good one.

Vote Count #1.06:

WhemeStar [L-3] ChaosOmega, ECMitchell, Terata, Fro99er
Hawk [L-4] Aj the Epic, Cooperative Sheep, WhemeStar
ChaosOmega [L-5] Terata, Lowell
Cooperative Sheep [L-5] Lil Uzi Vert, PenguinPower
Lil Uzi Vert [L-6] Hawk
Lowell [L-6] Naomi-Tan, WhemeStar

Not Voting (1): gerryoat,

With 13 people alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

V/LA:

None.

Deadline:

(expired on 2017-02-13 15:45:00)

[Fro99er]

Yo Mitchell.

terata is town.

[Terata]

I feel like this game is froggy vs sleepy, and I'm not sure on what to say about it.

No opinion on:

Lowell and my interactions
CO and Frogger's interactions
Sheep's response to it
Gerrygoat in general
Lowell on ECM and Naomi

There's a circus going on and you're just focusing on the last act.

Ill try to do this piece by piece, too try and show that I'm trying my best to help out town. Sorry if you prefer me to give my opinions in one big post though.

Gerrygoat in general has been useless IMO. He hasn't contributed anything to the game (less than me)

and I find it suspicious

. Only thing he contributed too was saying sheep slipped, and claimed that he was the one who pointed out the slip, but Frogger did IMO. But I don't think mafia would do what gerry is doing, so Im going to say he's null-town

Sheep and Frogger have been going at it all game. At first I thought it was froggy just trying to get reactions out of others, but then it kept going on and on. After reading both of their posts over and over I think sheep is trying to just blame froggy of not reading his posts/answering his questions/misrepping him. Which I think is a scummy move, just asking questions over and over again. I thought sheep's slip wasn't really a slip, but his posts lately have me thinking he is possible scum.

Lowell- I don't like some of his posts, such as iso #2. Where he voted sheep and said "is the slip real? who knows". Seems to me like he didn't have much reason to vote sheep and he didn't really care. I do like his recap on post #355 though. Also said that EC/Naomi flipped when he had a FOS on them, yet I don't see anything that shows them flippinng out. Possible scum.

look at the 2 bolded statements
I find it really strange how Lowell said AJ's posts are spot on and right. Yet in a previous post, AJ said that he thinks Lowell is scum. Is that a slip? I also think that Lowell is wrong on Naomi, she seems genuine town for me, and I will be against a lynch on her for a while.

EC, please get avatar, pls. EC voted me for not explaining my vote on Hawk? Which I thought I did, and I had nothing else to say about it. Used my previous posts as an example of me saying nothing. And said me getting a vote on me is the reason I became substantial. Which was wrong.

If you guys want more or if I missed some things, ask and Ill try to explain best I can.
For now, id like to vote lowell.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Lowell

I

said with gerrry not contributing he could be town because I don't see in any reality where scum doesn't say anything

. Because if you do what Gerry is doing than that will bring suspicion to you.

Also, most of my reads are sheeps from other people, I need to work on making my own reads, I'm new. Right now I read the two sides and agreed one one of them. For instance, as you pointed out. Someone else posted nearly the same thing I did with Lowell's ISO #2. And I agree with that person (forgot who). Same thing with AJ and Lowell, After lowell's reads, AJ said "you said Im town for being spot on with my reads, yet i called you scum".

[Terata]

look a the 2 statements i bolded and be amazed

[Fro99er]

Yah go fro99er you rock!

Why did you say this about my case on sheep, if you thought it was weak?

[ECMitchell]

Yo Mitchell.

terata is town.

I think he's made an excellent case against WhemeStar. Are you basing your town read on him entirely on that?

[Terata]

Calling absolute bull on this one. Show me the receipts.

The only person I've "attacked" for filler so far has been Gerroat. I quoted all of WhemeStar's initial posts to prove against their statement that they already explained their vote against Hawk in the first couple of pages—which they really didn't.

Also, the bold text in your quote suggests you see me as a lurker. Care to elaborate on that? Since I've been added as a replacement I've been on top of this game fully.

Now about avoiding conflict, I have two responses to that:

• I'm not. I don't exactly see how calling out two players (Fro99er, Naomi) for their play styles and persisting that a player justifies their vote (WhemeStar) constitutes "avoiding conflict."
  
  
• If I was, what exactly would your point be? Avoiding conflict isn't necessarily a bad thing, particularly this early in the game. Right now we're still about deliberation and facilitating discussion. I don't have to be going at people like Fro99er is Cooperative Sheep to advance the game in this stage.

Okay,

now

I'm really leaving for the day. Just had to respond to that one.

this is not a towny response to pressure. Strong emotion without really wolf reading him, just wanting to prove him wrong and get him on another path. This last sentence especially shows he was just

responding

, and not doing anything active in terms of solving the player he lashed out on.

Simple defense isn't really something towns get super engaged in unless they're really forced to IME,

and even in that they constantly consider the pushing person's alignment more than i see this post doing.

Apologies, but I'm afraid I don't understand at all what you're getting at here. You dislike my post because you feel the emotion in it is too strong against a player I haven't explicitly stated as scum—I trust that's what you mean by "wolf read?" Are you saying that players should only defend themselves against players they feel are scum? And, to confirm, are you saying by the bold text that it's a scum tell to defend yourself before being threatened with action of lynch? If so, you'd be seriously wrong.

And, yes, my post was a response to Lowell without offering any read on him. You're saying that's a scum tell?

basically, im saying you investigating the accuser back usually comes naturally as town, even if it isn't the main pupose of the post, you usually can notice it. I didn't. And scum does that more yes. But nvm that for now, I just caught a scum

[WhemeStar]

look a the 2 statements i bolded and be amazed

and then look at the sentence right after. I said i find it suspicious he hasnt been posting, but at the same time would mafia really do that?

[ECMitchell]

But nvm that for now, I just caught a scum

And you say that with 100% confidence? WhemeStar

is

scum, not just probably?