Mini Normal 1879 Bringer Mafia II [Game Over]

[Terata]

Sheep is so obvious opportunistic scum it hurts.

It would help lots if you expanded on why. You're answering stuff that doesn't matter as much about ur own gameplay instead of flushing out your reads. Noone is gonna listen to your reads if they don't know the reasoning

[Terata]

Personally i feel bad about pretty much all my scum reads for now but good about a couple of townreads which is Frogg, Naomi and AJ.

All others are very hard placed for now but that's ok, i loads of time to get a better PoE. i work with townreads better than scumreads too.

[Naomi-Tan]

yeah im in the same boat with confident town reads, but very little non-towns. Whats your thoughts on sheep right now terata?

[Terata]

My Naomi read comes almost only from her strong and lengthy response to Sheep which annoyed her, the emotion seemed real. It was super towny.
Frogg read is more from overall play and engagement, without a disconnect in emotion when he's been annoyed. Hasn't felt fake.
AJ read is from how he spoke of different things in his opening post, and then he got to his important reads and he said them super compact and confidently in like 2 lines and began it with "while we're at it", it it flowed well.

[Terata]

yeah im in the same boat with confident town reads, but very little non-towns. Whats your thoughts on sheep right now terata?

idk tbh, a lot of people i townread are either townreading him or starting to retract the scumread. So i take that into account, even though i don't really agree with your thought that him being in daychat would change his play very much. Players doesn't usually use daychat THAT much even though it's very good to do so. Though maybe it's different on this site and people post everything through there, but i don't see Sheep doing that. Players who are awkward like him with bad logic, is gonna look bad as either alignment in thay way imo.

[Terata]

is there a way to post a Votecount? or does only the mod have that power?

[Naomi-Tan]

is there a way to post a Votecount? or does only the mod have that power?

you can make and post your own vote count or use

@MOD: VC

or

@MOD: Votecount

@MOD: those are real btw vc please. XD

But if you do your own list it as an unoffical vote count.

[ChaosOmega]

fro99er:

You are curious to see my own take on my own push?

I think sheep is scum. I see zero reason for sheep to come in and make a jump in logic like that just to say something like "is it going to be difficult to work with you" when I got absolutely zero of that from lowell's post.

It was purely a jump in logic to throw shade.

Just wanted a response from you so I could engage with WhemeStar more. I assumed your push was genuine, and it seems like I was right. Scroll down this post to see a continuation of this thought!

As for the slip, I can see what gerry is talking about. I try to find those kinds of slips EVERY game, and Chaos I know you do at least at times as you did in MAFICEPTION with Pepto (which i then seized on and tied Titus to that slip so we for sure had two scum nailed down from it). I find slip resistance (as Titus did) more scummy than pointing out a slip, in general, although it's not a hard and fast tell.

Here's Chaos pointing out a slip: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p7396328

"Like he knows Mario is town"

That's what a I get from reading Sheeps post is that it looks "like he knows Gerry is town"

Yes, I look for slips, and yes, I get the jist of why people think this about Sheep. It just doesn't read that way to me. The Pepto one you're referring to from Mafiaception was blatant. He voted a big wagon stressing a bunch of caution, got called on his weakness, and responded he doesn't want a mislynch. Definition of a slip. The Sheep slip is just parsing something a certain way. I read it as "Oh, you're confirmed town? Well, your highness, you should place a vote so the rest of the town can follow you." It's not similar to the Pepto one at all to me, at least.

------

WhemeStar:

I think the push on sheep is weak, and frog made it seem like it was strong to get reactions out of everyone

So this has been proven wrong. frogger believes the strength of his push on Sheep. Since you think the push is weak, does this change your read of frogger at all?

------

Hawk:

Hawk: Do you currently have a scumread of Sheep?

At the time I was leaning him yespecially. Now yeah pretty much since all his posts till now have been the definition of insanity.

Is LUV still a bigger scumread for you at this point?

After that I'd like to point out all the problems I have with sheep and frogs argument that's spanned all day today and added 5 pages of fluff.

In your short readlist before this, you said frog was town and Sheep was scummy. Does frog not gain suspicion for being a main contributor to what you called "5 pages of fluff"?

[Terata]

fro99er:

You are curious to see my own take on my own push?

I think sheep is scum. I see zero reason for sheep to come in and make a jump in logic like that just to say something like "is it going to be difficult to work with you" when I got absolutely zero of that from lowell's post.

It was purely a jump in logic to throw shade.

Just wanted a response from you so I could engage with WhemeStar more. I assumed your push was genuine, and it seems like I was right. Scroll down this post to see a continuation of this thought!

As for the slip, I can see what gerry is talking about. I try to find those kinds of slips EVERY game, and Chaos I know you do at least at times as you did in MAFICEPTION with Pepto (which i then seized on and tied Titus to that slip so we for sure had two scum nailed down from it). I find slip resistance (as Titus did) more scummy than pointing out a slip, in general, although it's not a hard and fast tell.

Here's Chaos pointing out a slip: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p7396328

"Like he knows Mario is town"

That's what a I get from reading Sheeps post is that it looks "like he knows Gerry is town"

Yes, I look for slips, and yes, I get the jist of why people think this about Sheep. It just doesn't read that way to me. The Pepto one you're referring to from Mafiaception was blatant. He voted a big wagon stressing a bunch of caution, got called on his weakness, and responded he doesn't want a mislynch. Definition of a slip. The Sheep slip is just parsing something a certain way. I read it as "Oh, you're confirmed town? Well, your highness, you should place a vote so the rest of the town can follow you." It's not similar to the Pepto one at all to me, at least.

------

WhemeStar:

I think the push on sheep is weak, and frog made it seem like it was strong to get reactions out of everyone

So this has been proven wrong. frogger believes the strength of his push on Sheep. Since you think the push is weak, does this change your read of frogger at all?

------

Hawk:

Hawk: Do you currently have a scumread of Sheep?

At the time I was leaning him yespecially. Now yeah pretty much since all his posts till now have been the definition of insanity.

Is LUV still a bigger scumread for you at this point?

After that I'd like to point out all the problems I have with sheep and frogs argument that's spanned all day today and added 5 pages of fluff.

In your short readlist before this, you said frog was town and Sheep was scummy. Does frog not gain suspicion for being a main contributor to what you called "5 pages of fluff"?

this post reads very scripted/forced to me, and the only time he goes into a little bit of a deeper analysis is when he's comparing something to a past game, which is something that's easy to talk about when you're scum because it's something you believe in and can give your true thoughts on. Also looking for contradictions/unexplained progressions more than i'd like. I think that's sometimes a mafia trait too, because it's a simple thing to look for/push on.

Scummiest post of the game thus far to me

[Terata]

VOTE: ChaosOmega

[Terata]

you're also lacking thus far.

[Naomi-Tan]

Also looking for contradictions/unexplained progressions more than i'd like. I think that's sometimes a mafia trait too

how do you tell the difference between a Red or Green motive when dealing with that?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Sheep is so obvious opportunistic scum it hurts.

It would help lots if you expanded on why. You're answering stuff that doesn't matter as much about ur own gameplay instead of flushing out your reads. Noone is gonna listen to your reads if they don't know the reasoning

It's fairly simple really. He's using every little opportunity he can to jump on a wagon now or in the future and seed plant by discrediting.

It starts off quite early with his 18 where he takes Lowell's RVS vote as him being hard to work with as town because the wagon on WS was slightly larger. Doesn't even consider that me and Lowell may have played with each other outside of this game and his vote was a means of saying hi. Just assumes that Lowell will be hard to cooperate with. I also don't like this assumption because it implies not only he should be trusted but the people on the wagon should've been as well.

His 33 where he essentially calls Frog's argument about the intent of his questions towards Lowell trivial with his avatar retort.

In his 113, he discredits Naomi's null read on him by calling it white knighting. If you all go back and read the post of Naomi's he linked, she isn't defending him, she's questioning Gerry based on what she thinks Sheep meant and how Sheep reacted to the accusation. Naomi is not coming to his aid here, she's inquiring whether or not Gerry and Hawk are joking about the basis of their push on Sheep.

He says he wants to talk with Frog I'm assuming to clarify whatever issues he's still having him but rather than giving him the chance to hear him, he immediately casts a vote for Frog in 158. Strongly points to me like he already thinks Frog is scum and is just going to continue to provoke him in order to unnecessarily justify his vote.

223 he just jumps on the Hawk wagon after it's clear he's not really null or town reading Frog or even AJ.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Oh and for Naomi:

Everything you know about scum tells should be thrown out the window when it comes to Naomi

[Lil Uzi Vert]

VOTE: ChaosOmega

Something about this vote feels off.

[Fro99er]

VOTE: ChaosOmega

Something about this vote feels off.

Can you put your finger on what?

I agreed with the vote, FWIW

[Lil Uzi Vert]

VOTE: ChaosOmega

Something about this vote feels off.

Can you put your finger on what?

I agreed with the vote, FWIW

I think him calling it scripted is what's bugging me. It doesn't read that way to me.

[WhemeStar]

Bleh that return did just what I said I was giving him Green cred for. losing his position in my mind now.

Huh? Who is this referring to?

Frog

VOTE: WhemeStar

Wheme, what are your thoughts on Sheep and the quick L-2 wagon on him?

I think their both town, froggy dude pushing him to get reactions out of others. And it worked, which makes me suspect Lil Uzi, Hawk, and Gerryoak.

I'll keep my vote on Uzi.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Hawk

Blank votes can go die in a fire. Explain your vote on hawk in 25 words or more.

Didn't I already explain it in previous posts? Me explaining the vote would be the same thing I've said in the first couple pages

[Firebringer]

So none of you are fit to be the princess for this new movie Disney is making. Not surprised, you all are internet nerds anyways. So, we decided to go another route instead. I will be the princess, and you will have to save me from some sort of obstacle. Perhaps the lack of vote counts can be the enemy of the movie.

Vote Count #1.03:

Cooperative Sheep [L-4] Lowell, Fro99er, Lil Uzi Vert
Lil Uzi Vert [L-6] Hawk
WhemeStar [L-6] ChaosOmega
Hawk [L-4] Aj the Epic, Cooperative Sheep, WhemeStar
ChaosOmega [L-6] Terata

Not Voting (4): Naomi-Tan, PenguinPower, gerryoat, ECMitchell,

With 13 people alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

V/LA:

None.

Deadline:

(expired on 2017-02-13 15:45:00)

[Fro99er]

Vc and do not request a vc. You will get one at least once every five pages.

@Mod can we get a VC

[Fro99er]

For serious though. In like 30 min Penguin will need a replace/prod

[Fro99er]

Actually your rule is 36 hrs, so penguin needs a replace/prod already

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Leave Growlie alone!

[Firebringer]

Fro99er is being force replaced.

[Fro99er]

He's been posting elsewhere on site too. Just not here