Newbie 1767 | Winter | Endgame

[lucca261]

VOTE: Frederick

Posting from the phone rn. Working on a bigger post when I get to my computer.

[lucca261]

Happy with my vote staying on Frederick. I feel like he's not trying to scumhunt, just trying to appear active. His questions mean nothing, and he is clearly soft defending Brie here on this page.

With all this activity, why are you still voting Huntress?

[lucca261]

I don't see what people are seeing about Brie so much.

I see a null player. Don't know what made people so eager to vote her. But I don't think that was scum motived.

[lucca261]

His questions mean nothing, and he is clearly soft defending Brie here on this page.

Just to be clear, you're implying a brie scumread as well here? The suggestion being defending thebrie is bad.

Don't know what you're saying here. I currently null at Brie. I said that Fred is defending Brie, trying to look like he isn't.

[lucca261]

I don't see what people are seeing about Brie so much.

I see a null player. Don't know what made people so eager to vote her. But I don't think that was scum motived.

If you don't know what made people so eager to vote Brie, why do you think it isn't scum motivated?

Because it could have been a quick wagon to try to do a reaction test on a new player. See how Brie would react to three votes early.

[lucca261]

struggling at this game. it seems all it happened since I last posted was the one-shot stuff, then echo voting himself.

[lucca261]

fuck.

VOTE: echo

[lucca261]

Preparing a big post for tomorrow. Sorry for my lack of activity so far. Tomorrow this is changing.

[lucca261]

I agree with Lucca, not sure where all of the suspicion is coming from with Brie. If someone could dumb it all down for me you might be able to sway my stance on it, but I really don't see where it's all coming from.

also,

Unvote

no point in keeping it for now.

Don't like this. The part where you say to dumb it down for you. I feel like at this sentence you were trying to look new.

I'm slightly suspicious of SensFan and Loopdan. Perhaps because they seem to be trying hard to implicate me.

Though probably not both of them together because that would be too obvious when I flip if killed. But I will keep my vote on Loopdan for now.

Why are you so nervous?

VOTE: TheBrie

Unvote; Vote: TheBrie

Why do you two think that TheBrie is scummy?

What do YOU think about TheBrie?

Not too sure about him. Early posts were quite scummy, but later ones seem to try and solve the game.

Which later posts by Brie seem to try and solve the game? All the later posts from her are here freaking out about being voted.

I just used my

1-shot Game Solve Attempt

.

Once a game you can message the mod and they will confirm or deny your guess at the scum-team. You have to get both partners right or they just say "You are wrong." So like you can't just get partial credit for knowing one scum player.

It's rare to use it this early but I thought I'd give it a try. Penguin confirmed I nailed it and he should be along soon to lock up the thread and post the game ending. But we can continue to talk during this twilight period.

gg

Did you really expect this to work?

Wow. Guess that's that. Nice job Loopdan.

Why are all your posts trying to sheep someone? Literally all your votes and posts are sheeping someone's opinion.

If Huntress still suspects Echo and can explain why, I'll jump on that wagon. Something doesn't seem quite right.

Why not vote for Echo yourself if you suspect him?

Right now I suspect a lot of people a little bit and I don't have enough experience to trust my reads. Before I decide Echo is scummy, I want to hear what other think.

If you think I'm scum with Echo, why aren't you hopping on my wagon since it's bigger?

This is scummy. Before you decide Echo is scummy, you want to hear what other think? What does it even mean? You aren't allowed to vote without consulting other people? Why the sudden townread about huntress?

Okay, Im posting from mobile but I've got some stuff figured out. I've got two scum reads right now and it's on Huntress and SensFan. I have more suspicion on SensFan, so I'll start with him first. Towards the beginning of the game, SensFan decided to put a vote on Fred (who I have a town read for) due to a "Forced Post". The post was just a simple question on why somebody changed their vote. Nothing very forced about that IMO. That right there put a finger of suspicion on him for me. But it's his later posts that got me a complete maf read. Sens decided to hop on a wagon for Brie putting her at L-2(I believe) with absolutely no explanation. Yeah shit like that happens, but this struck me as very odd. The most suspicious thing for me was right after Loopdan used his fake guess shit. Sens said, "Wow. Guess that's that. Nice job loopdan." He didn't even bother reading the wiki or anything about it. He seemed so eager to end the game but didn't say anything at all about the whole thing and how ridiculous it seemed. He was just way way WAY too eager to put the game to an end. I'm on my way home now, so I'll post the rest of my findings later. For now,

VOTE: SensFan

This is a forced vote. There are right reasons to vote SensFan, but this is not it.

I didn't answer your question. As you just said, "that is not what I was asking him about."

If it wasn't the answer to her question, why did you feel the need to bring it up?

If Huntress still suspects Echo and can explain why, I'll jump on that wagon. Something doesn't seem quite right.
Loopdan on the other hand is crazily confusing. I don't know what lying to a newbie about the game mechanics is supposed to achieve.

I explained it in 104, and nothing I've seen since has changed that feeling. But if you haven't seen that then you've no reason to sheep me; so why are you prepared to do so?

I missed that. The reason I was willing to vote Echo on more evidence was that I had some suspicions. His sudden vote on my seemed a little odd. Immediately pulling it off again when I commented, is suspicious unless he really hadn't realized that out me at L-1 and didn't want me there. Which is possible, but he didn't really explain.
What he's since said about Sensfan sounds alright, though Sensfan's post 141 made a lot of sense too. So I don't have enough to change to either of them. Huntress, what do you think of Sensfan and Loopdan. I'm sure they're not a team, but everything else about them is uncertain.

Why do you need to hear Huntress thoughts? There a lot of players who didn't give their thoughts on the situation. Why especify Huntress?

If Huntress still suspects Echo and can explain why, I'll jump on that wagon. Something doesn't seem quite right.
Loopdan on the other hand is crazily confusing. I don't know what lying to a newbie about the game mechanics is supposed to achieve.

I explained it in 104, and nothing I've seen since has changed that feeling. But if you haven't seen that then you've no reason to sheep me; so why are you prepared to do so?

I missed that. The reason I was willing to vote Echo on more evidence was that I had some suspicions. His sudden vote on my seemed a little odd. Immediately pulling it off again when I commented, is suspicious unless he really hadn't realized that out me at L-1 and didn't want me there. Which is possible, but he didn't really explain.
What he's since said about Sensfan sounds alright, though Sensfan's post 141 made a lot of sense too. So I don't have enough to change to either of them. Huntress, what do you think of Sensfan and Loopdan. I'm sure they're not a team, but everything else about them is uncertain.

We want to hear your thoughts on people. Not Huntress' thoughts.

Take a stance. Who is most likely to be Scum based on everything so far?

What are your reads? Cause for now, you are just sheeping Loopdan.

TheBrie confusion she's expressing now reads genuine even if a bit awkward.

Was still fidgety on entrance but that's not necessarily scum-indicative here.

Definitely starting to look game-solvey.

What do you mean by looking game-solvey? Trying to solve the game?

---

sorry for the wall, another one coming, though

[lucca261]

my reads:

TOWN
- rasko: probably the surest bet for town this game, so far. good posts, featuring questions that matter, good scumhunting and analysis. his posts about Echo are really good, and made me notice stuff that I hadn't noticed. He is clear-headed and sounds genuine in his arguments.
- selynee: another person i'm reading town. seems like she is genuine, and I feel like she's looking things from the same perspective as me. her #176 might gave me pause, cause I don't feel it's on the line of the rest of her posts, and the sudden spike on activity when questioned puts her behind rasko on my readlist. solid town so far, though.
- loopdan: after Rasko and Selynee, it's a crapshoot. I feel like the best is Loop, though. He seems like is genuine scumhunting, and trying everything to find scum. Not so sure about the gameshot thing, though. I felt like he was just looking at a reason for voting Brie, and used the gameshot to do it.
- huntress: meh. her posts feel dodgy. I feel like she's just trying to look active, without stating a lot. Could be a playstyle thing, I guess.
- fred: his longtime vote at Huntress pings me, especially when he states that he wanted activity and still parked his vote on her. if he wanted activity, why don't vote another player? it would be easy. but his posts at least are consistent with each other. wish there was more followup to his questions, at least.
- brie: brie is crazy. there was a lot of voting around her spot. I feel like her nervous breakdown is actually genuine, and her reaction to the gameshot is actually fine. it's her other posts I don't like. lots of easy and empty statements, some fluff, and obvious stuff.
- sens: sens has a crazy voting pattern. he's just sheeping other people opinions and votes. by doing that and only asking questions, he's laying low by posting a lot.
- echo: his behaviour is inconsistent, his tone changes from post for post, and he seems more concerned with looking town than finding scum, also his votes seem hypocritical with his other posts. happy with my vote here.

---

thought this was gonna be bigger.

[lucca261]

I haven't sheeped anyone beyond my intial RVS vote. I think my feelings on most people are pretty clear.

both your votes at Frederick and Brie happened one post after another vote on him.

[lucca261]

Sens decided to hop on a wagon for Brie putting her at L-2(I believe) with absolutely no explanation. Yeah shit like that happens, but this struck me as very odd. The most suspicious thing for me was right after Loopdan used his fake guess shit. Sens said, "Wow. Guess that's that. Nice job loopdan." He didn't even bother reading the wiki or anything about it. He seemed so eager to end the game but didn't say anything at all about the whole thing and how ridiculous it seemed. He was just way way WAY too eager to put the game to an end. I'm on my way home now, so I'll post the rest of my findings later. For now,

VOTE: SensFan

How do you put theBrie l-1 on also nothing and then have a problem with sens earlier l-2 vote?

Looks like after you got called out on your vote you went to look at who did similar to do the same. IDK how as town you could literally just have done the same thing THEN you scumread sens off of it without noticing at all...
Is the cognitive dissonance not obvious even to a newbie here?

He seemed so eager to end the game but didn't say anything at all about the whole thing and how ridiculous it seemed. He was just way way WAY too eager to put the game to an end.

And this looks like hardcore exaggeration and twisting of a pretty short post of sens.

How are you this super confident on the judgement given what you've actually said?
The l-2 vote when you yourself l-1'd and a "Nice job loopdan" is a huge mismatch for this conclusion you're trying to bring out of it and I can't possibly see how what you say would've brought you to that read.
I feel like this confidence is being faked here and this post is trying to make sens look bad on BS.

VOTE: Echo

The l-1 was a mistake, didn't realize that it put her at l-1. That's why immediately after I unvoted, I didn't feel a Brie kill was necessary just yet. (And I still don't, but cmon get your own scum reads and stop asking huntress for theirs God damn). Figured the fact I didn't know I put her at L-1 was kind of obvious due to my unvote within 5 minutes, but whatever. The vote was originally just supposed to be a pressure vote but I'd rather not put her at l-1just for pressure.

I typed this out but never sent it. God damn it... well here ya go. just got out of 6 and a half hours of traffic so I'll post tomorrow ugh I want sleep

Why didn't you say this at the time? This feels like last minute desperation.

[lucca261]

Lucca, how do you read post 183?

I mean, he did sheep people after the RVS. I'm curious why you asked me about that. Do you have something to say about it?

I haven't sheeped anyone beyond my intial RVS vote. I think my feelings on most people are pretty clear.

both your votes at Frederick and Brie happened one post after another vote on him.

In both cases someone else happened to check in first. I actually gave reasoning for the Fred vote before you did. Is anyone but the first person to log on after something bad is posted just sheeping?

No. I'm not just saying that this is the only two situations it happened. I'm talking about how you're treating Loopdan and the need you had to play along with the gameshot thing after it had no shot at doing anything.

[lucca261]

that doesn't count as a hammer. give rasko the time he requested.

[lucca261]

that doesn't count as a hammer. give rasko the time he requested.

Thanks for that.

Vote: Echo

how did that turn out?

[lucca261]

@lucca-- If you wanted more time, why did you point out the hammer didn't count?

I'm also interested in that.

There were two options: that I intentionally screwed up the vote formatting, or that it was an honest mistake and I intended to hammer. In either case, pointing it out leads to me immediately hammering.

He was going to realize that he didn't hammer soon enough. I wanted to see that, if Rasko did his catchup, if he would unvote. There was a lot of time until the deadline. He could've waited to do the hammer until Rasko had posted.

Sens, did you intend to hammer? Answer me, or you're going to wait Loopdan to answer and then sheep him?

[lucca261]

Your insistence on the story that all I do is sheep people is cute, though.

thanks. I'm actually cute. I'm saying all you do is sheep Loopdan, not people.

[lucca261]

It's just as much on lucca as it is on me. There's no reasonable expectation of making a "that hammer doesn't count" post other than the hammer being made correctly.

That hammer didn't count. You were going to realize that. And hammer again.

I said

That hammer didn't count. Wait for him to catch up. Don't hammer again.


---

PS: I may be getting a little angry here, sorry if I offended someone.
PSII: I'm a guy lol

[lucca261]

I'm here Rasko. Posting now.

[lucca261]

^That is not a scum post for a player in her first game.

Brie and Selynee are both probably town.

Why, exactly? What exactly her post contains that makes she town because it's her first game?

[lucca261]

People change their mind, go inactive, get bored. Scum have time to come up with a fakeclaim. I've seen countless times where people are wagoned to L-1 with intent to lynch pending a claim, they refuse to claim, and people chicken out and don't force the issue.

Four people were content voting him. I gave 24h notice that I would hammer if there was no claim, and no one unvoted. I hammered. Don't try and put that all on me.

I don't like this. Seems that your only concern is that people are blaming you for the hammer.

Don't try and put that all on me.

is weird. Seems weirdly defensive. Of course people are putting the blame on you, you hammered with a lot of time left.

The hammer is kinda scummy? Yes, but the defensive stance you're doing is starting to concern me more.

[lucca261]

Weird that Selynee requested replacement after her weird vote on Rasko. Not saying that it's scummy. Just weird.

Another weird thing is the lack of posts from Fred on D2. He was so active D1, and now seems to be just trying to avoid pressure.

@fred, do you still think that Loopdan is scum? if so, why?
@loopdan, who is your top scumread right now? sensfan, fred, me or huntress?
@rasko, now that we know Echo's flip, how do you read his wagon? I'm trying to do it, and is only making me more paranoid.

--

last day wagon seemed weird. there wasn't a lot of pressure on people, but the votes started to pile up quickly, leading to the hammer. I'm starting to think that there is no scum on that wagon, save for maybe Huntress.

I'm starting to get paranoid here, and this is not good. At the moment I don't townread anyone, save for maybe Rasko.

VOTE: Frederick

[lucca261]

knew it was coming.

finally somebody votes me. was starting to get lonely.

of course everyone is suspicious. this has been a hard game for me, and I am starting to doubt my other townreads, Selynee and you, given her

weird

vote on Rasko, asking to be replaced and no voting on D1. You, given that you were only asking questions without explaining any of your scumreads. Rasko is the only townread because he is the only one right now who seems to be consistent and process stuff naturally.

I never said that Huntress was scum. I said that I was thinking that maybe the only scum vote on that wagon was Huntress.

the questions were to try to get scumreads from people who were giving nothing, and trying to engage with Rasko, my biggest townread.

not even acknowledging the weird and paranoid part, cause you know that is bullshit. cute that you counted it, though.

---

so, since when I am a scumread of you? what are your thoughts on fred, loopdan?

[lucca261]

What's been so hard about this game? I'm finding it getting a bit harder now that every one seems to be cross-voting. but before it didn't seem bad.

knew it was coming.

finally somebody votes me. was starting to get lonely.

That sounds like you're trying to laugh your vote off. As if it's not a big deal. Not that it is very big yet.

It's not a big deal right now. I was expecting someone to vote me.

I say right now because I think it's possible that scum might wagon me. I did have some scummy posts last day, and no player has a townread on me. So it would be easy to scum to wagon me, since they don't have a hard stance on me right now.

Hey, by your readlist you should be voting me. Why aren't you? Also, how Fred hasn't said enough for you to read him. He has said a lot.

[lucca261]

preparing a big post right now. let's go.

[lucca261]

lucca and huntress have been the two that have stood out to me as particularly scummy in the early parts of today. Huntress in particular seems super eager to put all of a D1 lynch on one person, and has been around the block way too much to seriously think that 'one time someone did this thing and was Scum' is at all relevant.

TheBrie is super raw, which is making it hard for me to read her. For now I think I'm willing to put her in the Town pile until a bit later, but plan on looking back at her stances on people when we get more flips. I think she's the least likely to have been able to look natural as Scum looking back in hindsight on stuff like a Scum wagon.

Loopdan and I seem to naturally be on the same page on most/all issues, which makes me inclined he's looking at the game sincerely.

I don't feel like I have a good grasp on Fred/Selynee/Rask right now, though I should go back. I feel like I remember finding Fred suspicious on D1 and I'm not sure why.

Don't like this post. You have zero substance reads, save for Loopdan.

So you have four null reads, Loopdan as town, me as scum without explaining it and Huntress as scum because she put the hammer exclusively on you? You explain the total of two reads. All the other ones are unexplained.

This "readslist" feels like you are trying too hard to make your options open. If you need to ever vote one of your four null votes, by this, you can just say "Hey, I re-read then and they're scum".

Meanwhile, my vote goes to my largest scumread.
VOTE: SensFan

Can you explain why you're voting SensFan? Why is he scummy to you?

@Sens & @Brie -- Let's townbloc this for the win. Requesting more votes on lucca.

@Rask & @Sickofit -- You are the backup townbloc. Be prepared to be called up if the situation deteriorates.

@Huntress, @Fred, @Lucca -- sry fam

Your townblock is Sens and Brie. Can you explain your sudden realization that Brie is Newbie Town?

[lucca261]

my reads for scum are lucca, sens, and Fred.... from scummiest to least scummiest

So your reads for scum are me, Sens and Fred? AKA the three people receiving votes right now? Nice of yous to replace in and post absolutely the easiest reads available.

Lucca has been very wishywashy and his posts are all filler... and he says everyone is weird and suspicious and racted weakly to pressure. i would be most comfortable with his lynch today.
SensFan is... idk mostly a gut read here and i don't like that hammer. At all.
Fred seems to be not contributing... but i see him posting a lot it just seems as if hes background noise and filling the space. with nothing

I'll give you wishywashy. Can you point out to me where there was filler on my posts?

Worth noting that all the arguments here, even the

weird

one were also said by other people. So the guy replaces in, gives the three easiest reads possible and explains then with arguments already said by other people?

TheBrie is also 100% town here, this is not a newb scum talking as loopdan pointed out

Can you explain why you think this?

@sickofit-- I knew I had a good feeling about your slot. I'm calling you up to the townbloc.

Scum is in:
Rask
Huntress
Fred
lucca

Think you are focusing too much on townreading people who only agree with you.

@Sickofit I'm figuring you can't see what your predecessor saw in Rask? And since you're of a different opinion, why haven't you changed your vote?

A BP shouldn't claim, because if there is a BP, there could be a jailkeeper who could have blocked the Mafia. And doctors almost never want to claim.

@Loopdan you put Rask as backup town then a little later said Rask was more likely scummy. I admit I'm uncertain on Rask too, but could you explain that? Also where is your town read on Sensfan coming from?

Lucca is now seeming more scummy than Huntress.
VOTE: Lucca

Why should Sickofit see what his predecessor saw in Rasko? How is he going to answer that?

Other than that, like this post. Seems like Brie is trying to ask the right questions.

[lucca261]

VOTE: Sickofit

Confortable with voting him with this entrance. It's the scummiest thing that happened all game.

[lucca261]

lucca and huntress have been the two that have stood out to me as particularly scummy in the early parts of today. Huntress in particular seems super eager to put all of a D1 lynch on one person, and has been around the block way too much to seriously think that 'one time someone did this thing and was Scum' is at all relevant.

TheBrie is super raw, which is making it hard for me to read her. For now I think I'm willing to put her in the Town pile until a bit later, but plan on looking back at her stances on people when we get more flips. I think she's the least likely to have been able to look natural as Scum looking back in hindsight on stuff like a Scum wagon.

Loopdan and I seem to naturally be on the same page on most/all issues, which makes me inclined he's looking at the game sincerely.

I don't feel like I have a good grasp on Fred/Selynee/Rask right now, though I should go back. I feel like I remember finding Fred suspicious on D1 and I'm not sure why.

Don't like this post. You have zero substance reads, save for Loopdan.

So you have four null reads, Loopdan as town, me as scum without explaining it and Huntress as scum because she put the hammer exclusively on you? You explain the total of two reads. All the other ones are unexplained.

This "readslist" feels like you are trying too hard to make your options open. If you need to ever vote one of your four null votes, by this, you can just say "Hey, I re-read then and they're scum".

Btw this is scum distancing from their partner when I called them out.

What. You didn't call "us" out. You specifically that you see nothing that made us a likely scum-pair, and that you see nothing that made us an unlikely scum-pair.

This post is so bad that makes me think that you're Town that thinks they cracked the game and is now confbiased.

What's been so hard about this game? I'm finding it getting a bit harder now that every one seems to be cross-voting. but before it didn't seem bad.

knew it was coming.

finally somebody votes me. was starting to get lonely.

That sounds like you're trying to laugh your vote off. As if it's not a big deal. Not that it is very big yet.

I never said that Huntress was scum. I said that I was thinking that maybe the only scum vote on that wagon was Huntress.

I think I know what you means, but that sounds rather contradictory.

Reads now:
Loopdan, likely town
Selynee, likely town, but not as strongly as before
Fred, null. He hasn't said enough for me to read him, but my gut says not scum
Rask, sounds town, but I'm not sure.
Sensfan, Null. leaning slightly town
Huntress, slightly scummy and I don't see any reason to shift my vote.
Lucca, leaning slightly scummy

@Lucca

Reread this and tell me that this is coming from someone's first game and they are scum.

I see nothing "unfakeable" on this post. Yes, the readslist is unconclusive. But I also have seen a lot of newbie scum that were "Confirmed NewbTown".

Can you explain to me why do you think Brie is clear? It your words.

VOTE: Sickofit

Confortable with voting him with this entrance. It's the scummiest thing that happened all game.

This is a terrible OMGUS.

That's not an OMGUS. If I would do an OMGUS vote, I would probably vote someone who has voted for me, right? If I'm scum and I vote for you, it's likely that you vote for me.

You had a bad entrance to the game, sheeped the most popular opinions and is inconsistent as fuck. The rest of your posts are theory related. You have done nothing to make me think you're town, except for the whole "So scummy to be scum" post above.

---

nah. you're just scum.

[lucca261]

I mean, you explained it. I want to know why it's not something she would post as scum? I honestly don't know what you guys saw about that post.

[lucca261]

Oh Fred's Sens "case" was pretty bad. The number one reason is awful. It's scummy. There was context to the vote-unvote situation, and he threw it all away to "make the case feel better". That's scummy. It's a thrown together case, and I'm feel like he thought people would support it, given that a lot of players are thinking that Sens is scum, me included.

@sicko, can you answer my questions? thx.

[lucca261]

I think 297 still holds for me atm regarding lucca.

I'd be interested in seeing where sensfan and huntress do decide to vote today given we're a fair chunk of the way through.

I find it strange that Sens thinks I'm scummy for so long, and when there's a wagon on me, he decides to not vote.

What do you think of Sicko right now, Rasko?

[lucca261]

Posting right now. Let's go.

[lucca261]

Don't lose sight of scum!lucca here. Fred can wait his turn for the rope.

Answer my filler question. Or you can't, because your case is something you made up on the fly?

If Fred flips scum, that vote by Huntress looks like a bus combined with the foundation for her mislynch push on me tomorrow.

So let's make this L-1.

VOTE: Fred

Do you think Huntress would bus Fred right now, considering that she is not on a very good position right now, and there is probably two or three more lynches?

I realize that by saying this I could be proving your point right now, But I don't think it would be a good play for someone who barely townread by anyone.

Since people have bugged me to pass my reads...
Sickofit1138: Town for being attempting to guess who's scum.
Huntress: Someone like me. I'm nullreading Huntress.
TheBrie: Seems to be more likely than not to be town. A definite townread.
Loopdan: Trying to sherlock the game. Awarded a townread.
Raskolnikov: Trying to sherlock the game as well. Awarded a townread.
SensFan: Mysterious hammer and mysterious read. A scumread.
lucca261: Seems trying to solve the game. A townread.

Hey, I think it's you and Sicko. So now I'm clear because I'm attempting to guess who's scum?

Don't like this post. Seems like made up reasons, just because he was pressured to made a readslist.

@Huntress-- Why aren't you answering 356? Who are your town reads?

Why do you need to know? I don't often do full read lists in the first Day or two of a game, but at the moment my town reads are basically everyone who I'm not calling scum.

Scum often prefer not giving townreads as it limits their lynch options. You have noticeably not offered TRs.

So, what do you think of Fred readslist, with six townreads and one null? By your definition, is that a town post?

[lucca261]

Brie seemed to disappear since she stopped getting pressured. Where are you?

So, Fred is at L-1. I have no problem at hammering him, but I want more posting from Rasko, who is catching up, Brie, to show up, and Sicko.

Would lynch Sicko today, but Fred is a nice consolation prize.

[lucca261]

@Huntress-- Why aren't you answering 356? Who are your town reads?

Why do you need to know? I don't often do full read lists in the first Day or two of a game, but at the moment my town reads are basically everyone who I'm not calling scum.

Scum often prefer not giving townreads as it limits their lynch options. You have noticeably not offered TRs.

Yet in contrast, Fred has given town reads. I'm not saying he's town, but it's going to be hard for him to consistently lynch anyone other than Sensfan. While if he's trying to be invisible and let us kill each other, it's not working too well.

One thing I'll say for certain is that if Fred is scum, Sensfan is pretty clear. While if we lynched Lucca and he was scum, it'd be harder to pick up his partner.

why would Sensfan be clear with a Fred lynch? I think it would clear Rasko more.

[lucca261]

Preparing a big post right now let's go

[lucca261]

And I'm buying that his uncounted hammer was intentionally messed up to extend the day.

I extremely doubt this is what his intention was there.
First off I think MOST rulesets would count the hammer as a hammer anyways under the interpretation rule (where anything that clearly looks like it was intended to be a vote counts as a vote, to prevent hammer sillyness), this game included if I read it right.

Second it looks like even sensfan himself isn't saying this wasn't the case so yeah?

@Lucca what was your question? I don't feel like reading back right now.

Point to me where there was filler on my posts. I want you to do it, because I think you were just using this word to make the case feel "bigger".

---

About Rasko vs Sens, at least page 17, that is where I am, I found it very weird.

I mean, the whole point of it seems to be based of SensFan failing to comprehend what Rasko was saying to him. Rasko was saying to him valid points about his play, and Sens was only not answering, cause he seemingly couldn't comprehend the point Rasko was making.

Also, Sens point about Rasko trying to discredit Loopdan is ???. The ironic part is that Sens is using this to discredit Rasko point about the hammer.

[lucca261]

Actually WTF

Even if that was true
If you wanted to react test to see if scum would point out your hammer was misdone that would imply thinking echovision was town WHILE lynching him

I think the only possible reason would be if Echo, "hammered", would post something that would make him confscum, then Sens would hammer him without a doubt.

But if Sens was so sure that Echo was scum, even that doesn't make sense.

Actually WTF

Even if that was true
If you wanted to react test to see if scum would point out your hammer was misdone that would imply thinking echovision was town WHILE lynching him

Are you high? I actually can't fathom how you could possibly jump to this conclusion.

@sens, what was your goal when pulling this gambit? answer clearly. how were you going to catch scum using it?

---

for me, the hammer itself wasn't so scummy. I mean, it was weird, and I would have liked to see more discussion that day, but it wasn't so scummy.

The main point about it that made me suspect Sens about it was the crazy outburst he has when asked about it:

For me, I can see scum thinking that they made a mistake, so when someone point it, he is overly defensive about it. Things like calling Huntress scummy cause she said the hammer was only his fault. This makes me think that he is being way too defensive for a townie, and makes me suspect him.

PS: I'm still a boy lol.

VOTE: Sensfan

HE'S AT L-1 NOW

I think it will be like, interesting for me to put my vote here. Very interesting.

[lucca261]

Spoiler:

People change their mind, go inactive, get bored. Scum have time to come up with a fakeclaim. I've seen countless times where people are wagoned to L-1 with intent to lynch pending a claim, they refuse to claim, and people chicken out and don't force the issue.

Four people were content voting him. I gave 24h notice that I would hammer if there was no claim, and no one unvoted. I hammered. Don't try and put that all on me.

I don't like this. Seems that your only concern is that people are blaming you for the hammer.

Don't try and put that all on me.

is weird. Seems weirdly defensive. Of course people are putting the blame on you, you hammered with a lot of time left.

The hammer is kinda scummy? Yes, but the defensive stance you're doing is starting to concern me more.

Weird that Selynee requested replacement after her weird vote on Rasko. Not saying that it's scummy. Just weird.

Another weird thing is the lack of posts from Fred on D2. He was so active D1, and now seems to be just trying to avoid pressure.

@fred, do you still think that Loopdan is scum? if so, why?
@loopdan, who is your top scumread right now? sensfan, fred, me or huntress?
@rasko, now that we know Echo's flip, how do you read his wagon? I'm trying to do it, and is only making me more paranoid.

--

last day wagon seemed weird. there wasn't a lot of pressure on people, but the votes started to pile up quickly, leading to the hammer. I'm starting to think that there is no scum on that wagon, save for maybe Huntress.

I'm starting to get paranoid here, and this is not good. At the moment I don't townread anyone, save for maybe Rasko.

VOTE: Frederick

What's been so hard about this game? I'm finding it getting a bit harder now that every one seems to be cross-voting. but before it didn't seem bad.

knew it was coming.

finally somebody votes me. was starting to get lonely.

That sounds like you're trying to laugh your vote off. As if it's not a big deal. Not that it is very big yet.

It's not a big deal right now. I was expecting someone to vote me.

I say right now because I think it's possible that scum might wagon me. I did have some scummy posts last day, and no player has a townread on me. So it would be easy to scum to wagon me, since they don't have a hard stance on me right now.

Hey, by your readlist you should be voting me. Why aren't you? Also, how Fred hasn't said enough for you to read him. He has said a lot.

Point the quotes. I see no filler.

[lucca261]

Preparing a big post for tomorrow. Sorry for my lack of activity so far. Tomorrow this is changing.

I'm here Rasko. Posting now.

preparing a big post right now. let's go.

thought this was gonna be bigger.

Posting right now. Let's go.

Preparing a big post right now let's go

^^^ I'm naming you Donald Trump. You're so concerned about making walls

but seriously isnt this... well...

weird

?

I do this at every alignment and every game I play. You're welcome to check my other games, If you doubt this.

[lucca261]

literally he posted a readlist and said he thought it was gonna be bigger. Like why are you so self conscious about how bug your readlists look?

I thought I said several times that I was having difficult reading this game. Expected to be bigger = expected to have more definitive reads. Context is important.

[lucca261]

Preparing a big post for tomorrow. Sorry for my lack of activity so far. Tomorrow this is changing.

I'm here Rasko. Posting now.

preparing a big post right now. let's go.

thought this was gonna be bigger.

Posting right now. Let's go.

Preparing a big post right now let's go

^^^ I'm naming you Donald Trump. You're so concerned about making walls

but seriously isnt this... well...

weird

?

I do this at every alignment and every game I play. You're welcome to check my other games, If you doubt this.

Ive already done a meta dive of you... and i've seen a couple times where you want to do a big catchup post or something but not to this extent

Now I know you're lying. This is 100% not true. Half my posts are like this. Not even saying about my ongoing games.

My two completed games, in which I was both town, I did this half my posts.

But why I'm even saying this? You're going to manipulate anything I say, so it would fit your narrative...

---

notice the change in tone from the last few posts, and now, when he realized that I actually do that every time, and he wouldn't be able to use that to mislynch me.

[lucca261]

literally he posted a readlist and said he thought it was gonna be bigger. Like why are you so self conscious about how bug your readlists look?

I thought I said several times that I was having difficult reading this game. Expected to be bigger = expected to have more definitive reads. Context is important.

I feel like that is a bit of a stretch considering all your "big posts coming". I feel like my point is made

--

VOTE: lucca[/vote
You deserve the vote more than sens at this point.

Sens I would like to come back and revisit my read on you at some point i feel as if i could be confBiasing my read on you.

I feel like that is a bit of a stretch considering all your "big posts coming". I feel like my point is made
--
What this even mean?

My big posts coming mean that I'm going to do a catchup. That I'm reading the thread at the moment. You make no sense.

[lucca261]

Strangely my Lucca vote wasn't actually spurred directly by Lucca doing something scummy. It started with his reaction to the first vote on him, but I stayed on Huntress then. A little later Huntress had some posts that made her sound less scummy so I swapped.

Also Sickofit came in with various accusations against Lucca which strengthened my reasons

. (Partly because I had a town read for Selynee) Lucca certainly isn't cleared yet in my mind, so I'll stay there until further developments.

strengthened reasons for what?

Reasons for thinking Lucca was scummy. Your reads seemed to make sense.

What about his reads seemed to make sense?

[lucca261]

Hey guys, I'm V/LA until 18/1. Maybe I'll enter just to check, but will be hard, because of internet issues.

I don't know how I'm supposed to announce, but I think this and PMing the mod will serve.

I will be back.

[lucca261]

I'm here now. Reading. Will post.

[lucca261]

Sobolev 503

Solid post. Sobolev made a good entrance, with solid thought process.

The parts I don't like are the Huntress stuff and the read on himself.

@sobolev, what did Huntress say that you agree with?

Don't like him trying to defend his predecessor play. I feel like this is something that scum would be more worried than town. I mean, town would be more concerned with trying to state his new reads than defending the predecessor play.

---

The I'm a boy comment was about Rasko. Rasko kept referring to me like I was a women. I was just clarifying.

I'm going to explain the interesting comment too. When I put him at L-1, I was looking for Sicko's reaction. I mean, he seems so sure about my slot. And I was voting Fred together with him. I wanted to see if he would unvote, or comment at that. Then Rasko did it.

---

Also, I still think that Rasko is town, but his last few posts are giving me scummy vibes. I mean, it's weird that everytime a wagon that he is in gains strength, he seems to leave it.

[lucca261]

not Fred, Sensfan. mixed the names.

[lucca261]

Rasko 510

This is clearly taking things out of context.

I'm starting to think you are doing all this stuff to try and justify your hammer and I don't like it.

Sicko 515

, Sickofit1138"]

You are so scum/confbiased town that you are asking one of your top scumreads to vote me.

Sicko 518

, Sickofit1138"]

Let's make a game. Let's say I'm lynched and I flip scum.

What are your reactions?

[lucca261]

Brie 529

What are your top townreads?

Sicko 534

This is someone people overly defensive. He has a point. Why aren't you answering it.

Sicko 544

Let's say me and loopdan are scum. I had no pressure at my spot. Like, none.

Why does he start a wagon on me? He is on a confortable spot. He could just have stayed at the sidelines with me, voting someone easier like Fred or Huntress. But he does for me? And then unvotes? This is not optimal play.

Sens 546

Funny that for someone who thinks I'm scum for so long, you sure as hell agree with me a lot.

[lucca261]

Thirding the call for a claim.

I support a hammer if Sobolev posts without claiming.

for fucks sake.

[lucca261]

the for fucks sake reaction was more about you talking about hammers again.

[lucca261]

Sorry for the inactivity y'all. Got sick recently and slept pretty much all day.

Claim: 1-shot BP

@lucca: glad to see you back. The stuff from Huntress I agreed with was like post 477 about Rask v Sensfan and post 329 about the townblock. Can give more examples if requested. Re: your question to SickOfIt in post 566 - what info does town get from an answer to this question?

This question can make people more sure about Sicko alignment. He said that he supports my lynch rather than yours or Sens because my flip would give more information to town. I think that he is mafia and that it's a bullshit reason. So I'm asking to him elaborate.

[lucca261]

VOTE: Sobolev

[lucca261]

VOTE: Loopdan

[lucca261]

wait. misread something.

UNVOTE: Loopdan

[lucca261]

wait. misread something.

UNVOTE: Loopdan

what did you misread?

thought the posts made by Brie on page 23 were yours.

[lucca261]

I think Huntress is the right vote tonight.

[lucca261]

380 and 396.

weird.

[lucca261]

Can I get some thought on huntress?

It's early but I fail to see a good alternative really, loopdan and sens pushed fred from even d1 so it's not like they hopped and a hardbus is rare enough to rule out in the majority of cases.
Brie and lucca both held similar positions hovering around the hammer spot (I don't think it's that unlikely thebrie could've hammered instead so thinking of it as brie-off lucca-on doesn't seem fair either), but didn't seem to play in any way to look good or to plan ahead and make others look bad for it.

Huntress I can some weirdness in her d1 priorities, pointing out the thing about fred early but not really focusing on it and then d2 she tried to setup associations when she did vote him.

Yeah. Huntress is definitely a possible partner for Fred/Sobo.

One thing in particular pings me about it:

Hi Sobolev!

I was thinking of switching my vote to Loopdan but having read your posts, mainly 503, I think it's better where it is. Why try and make excuses for Fred? I know you're in the same slot but you can't know what he was thinking.

This quote by Huntress feels like once Sobolev had a good answer, she would've switched her vote to Loopdan. But if things didn't work out, she would be voting Fred.

But Brie definitely has some strange interactions with Fred and her read on his spot is quite strange. Like, in the middle of D2, saying things like there's not enough data to have a read on him?

[lucca261]

I think the partner is between Brie and Huntress. Thoughts?

[lucca261]

I think the partner is between Brie and Huntress. Thoughts?

Yeah. Logically brie could fit because she did l-1 and back off, but I don't scumread thebrie much overall anymore. Around the end of the day thebrie actually retracted a lot of her scumread onto you lucca, which I don't see much scum motivation for. I think if frederick wagon died down you were probably the next in line so I'm not sure why she'd do that.

I don't think this means a lot. Sobolev entered the game by saying that me vs sicko was TvS. He was trying to get one of us to vote the other. Brie voting Sicko would go in line with this line of thought. Sobolev made himself open to both me and Sicko.

[lucca261]

I think doc should out, unless he docced Selynee D1. If he did doc Selynee, then I don't know.

Rasko, are you the PR?

Because what Huntress posted definitely has merit.

Even if we have a BP, I think he should claim. But I'm not so sure.

[lucca261]

My phone was malfunctioning last night so I couldn't post, but I had an idea similar to Huntress. I thought it unlikely due to Sickofits lack of suspicion of Rask.
I still think the idea that he found out something night one about Fred/Sobolev makes sense. Or rather found nothing.
But the only ways he could have found something on both Rask and Sobolev is if a) the theory Rask had about a 50-50 guess between two remaining suspects (but I'm not sure why Rask would be a suspect then) ; or b) Rask protected Sobolev N1 and there was no NK submitted. Neither of which actions makes sense. No one would protect Fred.

It makes more sense to track Fred, or another scummy looking person anyway.

Now I'm left wondering where Sick's push to lynch Lucca came from? Lucca being tracked is possibly, but it doesn't fit with the rest of our ideas.

Rasko was tracked. Selynee made it clear on 50-50 risky play. It was either exposing the doc or finding scum. Selynee found nothing about Fred.

[lucca261]

I'd say that the replace out is because Selynee thought she just outed the doc.

[lucca261]

Remember that Sicko wanted to know if a BP was hit? Because he tracked someone and was in doubt if he was the Doc or was scum.

[lucca261]

why was there a no-kill? If there was a bulletproof that was hit please claim.

If there is a doctor in this setup what are the advantages/disadvantages of them claiming?

He hit something. He was probably trying to make the doctor claim.

[lucca261]

Remember that Sicko wanted to know if a BP was hit? Because he tracked someone and was in doubt if he was the Doc or was scum.

Exactly.

The target is Rasko. 100%. Look at Selynee first post on D2, knowing that she is the tracker.

[lucca261]

Sicko thought Rasko was the doc. You can read the underlines on his posts. Observe that in no post Sicko tries to read Rasko. He thought 100% that Rasko was the PR, probably because of Rasko reaction to Selynee's vote on him.

[lucca261]

Rasko knew that the Sicko was the tracker too. He knew from the moment that Selynee voted him. That's why Sicko was killed tonight. Cause he was going to track Rasko again probably and realize Rasko was the last scum.

[lucca261]

Sicko thought Rasko was the doc. You can read the underlines on his posts. Observe that in no post Sicko tries to read Rasko. He thought 100% that Rasko was the PR, probably because of Rasko reaction to Selynee's vote on him.

Makes sense.
One question though, Lucca. Back on page 17 you said a Fred lynch would clear Rasko more than it would clear Sensfan. Why was that again and what do you think now?

Also if Rask is doc, who would you scum read?

Because I didn't knew Selynee/Sicko was the tracker. It would clear at the time, but with this new informations, we know he is scum.

If by 1% chance Rasko is doc and not scum, Huntress. Rasko is scum though.

[lucca261]

If Rasko was the doc, he would've already claimed.

[lucca261]

I'll hammer.

Just want to see the massclaim first.

[lucca261]

So. What even happened lol? Guess good game town.

[lucca261]

From D3 it was very obvious that Loopdan was BP. The way he was 100% sure about Rasko made me realize that.

[lucca261]

credits to Huntress actually. If she didn't point that out, probably she's the one lynched.

[lucca261]

The strange thing is that at the time, I noticed it. I even commented it. But then time passes and you forgot.

If not for the crumb, you win this Rasko, probably.

[lucca261]

Yes. The scum PT was very good and very interesting to read. Rasko posting on these was definitely informative.

[lucca261]

I'm still not sold Rasko can survive two lynches with the weird fakeclaim hijinks. I could be out of touch, but I still think it works as a Town gambit because your survival isn't important.

It works as a scum gambit as well because even though this gambit has managed to trick everyone, including himself, into believing that this gambit leads to a lynch, it seldom does because of that very same belief. Usually people who play this gambit survives without getting lynched, although there are exceptions.

Whatever.

stop sheeping loopdan.

[lucca261]

?

joking man.

[lucca261]

No worries lol. Was just confused.

GG though. Sorry I tunneled on you for a bit there.

Relax it's just a game haha. GG too.

Fuck you for that hammer, though. hahaha joking