Newbie 531: (Game Over)
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SlySly Jack of All Trades
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SlySly Jack of All Trades
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Ok, Tamuz, although your vote was before Day 1 started, it no longer seems as though it was without reason.
unvote
Your assessment seems very sound. IMO, a power role tell in the confirmation stage is not very town beneficial and leans towards being a scum tell.
FoS: Battousai
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Nothing creepy about me looking out when I hear scum rustling around outside the window!! Was that you I heard out there?Tlp wrote: His avatar is just creepy!-
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Thinking about Battousai's words, "dissappointed with my role. I hate this role whenever I get it, " I immediatly struck the vanilla townies from contention too. My reasoning for striking the vanillas out was more for the reason that being a vanilla townie, to me, is really like not having a role. It's just vanilla.Tamuz, in post 16, wrote:I read Battousi's words, decided that they were more indicative than scum than anything else and promptly voted them.
To me it is more indicative of him being scum than anything else.
...Battousi wrote:confirmed, also dissappointed with my role. I hate this role whenever I get it.
Since we are in a confirmed open set-up our role list is the following
I strike out the townies as possibilities due to the above meta.1 Mafia Goon
1 Mafia Roleblocker
1 Cop
1 Doctor
3 Townies
IMO, Battousai revealed that he had a non-vanilla role in the confirmation stage.
I think if he is the cop or the doc he would have been much more protective of the fact that he has a role and wouldn't have made the careless mistake of revealing that he does have one.
I think that being the Mafia Goon would be the scum equivalent of vanilla and wouldn't be worth pointing out.
Here Battousi scummily tries to expose the cop and then mod fishes for info about his role.
IMO, Battousai has revealed that he is the Mafia Roleblocker making himself the lynch of the day.Battousi wrote: Whoever the cop is, with your night action look at tlp or tamuz, results of the lynch depending.
@bird- one more question I just thought of. With the roleblocker, how are you deflecting it? making them appear townie or will the investigation result without results?
vote:Battousai-
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Usually everything you say gets sifted out in this game.Tlp wrote: To be very honest, im very unexperienced in this game.
Didn't really expect you were gonna sift out all the things i say.
Unless I am interpretting your words here incorrectly, this is an Appeal to Emotion. Are you feeling more pressure than I observe being applied to you?Tlp wrote: Sure you can vote me and see what happens and then directly see wether or not battousai is suspicious or not.-
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SlySly Jack of All Trades
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Tlp, you are doing great on your english and I have to give props to anyone that can play mafia in their 3rd language. However, I feel like your english may become a problem, gamewise, for you as this game progresses.Tlp wrote: Tamuz, its indeed my 3th language so I'm srry if my english isn't really that great-
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This smells like a bogus claim.Battousai wrote: Hopefully my claim will persuade you not to kill me and waste your lynching power on me. I am the doc.
I bet you did want the cop to out himself, but not because you are the doc.Battousai wrote: I kinda did want the cop to out himself so I know who to protect at night and not to lynch against during the day.
If you were the doc, you would know that the most pro-town thing you could do was keep your role hidden and not be trying to expose the cop so you could protect him, which is a stupid reason to expose a town power role, especially when there is a scum rb in the game, anyway.
Since you are the scum rb, you claimed doc attempting to get the real doc to counter. If you can get the town to buy your bogus claim and not lynch you here, you can just block the doc and NK the cop then block the doc the rest of the way out.
Luckily, you have been role hinting since the confirmation stage trying to get the cop to out himself, making it easy to spot your scummy intentions.
These scummy desperation moves by you, combined with your bogus claim, weakly attempt to expose the town power roles.
Townie's, there is absolutely no need for a counter claim here as Battousai's scuminess is obvious and there is no need to help his scum buddy out by outing a town power role.
My vote stands.-
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SlySly Jack of All Trades
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Ok, first you are the doctor, right?Battousai, in 83, wrote: I am the doc.
Now, you didn't say doc, you said cop and not only was it not your original claim but you were also lying about it?Battousai, in 102, wrote: I had a feeling that I was going to be lynched by my bad day actions, so I claimed cop. I am not a cop as a few of you have figured out...
Back to doc again now?Battousai, later in 102, wrote: I wanted to play out being the doc tonight to save myself...
If night does not fall soon, from certain angles there must be an obstructed view to your "Lynch me, I'm scum" sign.-
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SlySly Jack of All Trades
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welcome back, sorry about your arm. at least for now you are forced to write with the correct hand. =)soupfly wrote:
yeah, i got my new rig...SlySly wrote: Soup, did you get your computer fixed yet?
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IMO, doc claim is bad.
Battousai's scuminess is well documented. In this game, he has claimed every role possible except for the scum role that he actually is. After his play so far, it wouldn't be that shocking if he did, though I doubt anyone would ever be stupid enough to claim scum, especially at L-1.
The best way for a doc to get to end game is if his identity is not revealed. If the doc claimed now, the doc would be the obvious NK target of the scum.soupfly wrote: 1) docs are only useful if they make it to the end of the game. doc only has a 4-5% chance of blocking a NK during N1.
Claiming doc at this point completely diminishes the chances of the doc surviving until day 2. It is best for the town when the rb doesn't know who the doc or the cop is. Then the rb's rb'ing becomes highly ineffective.soupfly wrote: 2) the presence of a role blocker greatly diminishes the ability of the doc to protect a cop who reveals his role.
I say keep the power roles hidden.soupfly wrote: until we all decide that there will or will not be a doc claim then we can't really move forward.
Battousai has been obviously scummy in this game all the way back to the confirmation stage. He has tried again and again to get roles revealed and has even openly admitted to lying about his roles claims in attempts to out other roles.
At this point, I would find it very hard for anyone to defend Battousai and his actions. I still think he is the lynch of the day so my vote stands.-
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Wow!!! It's hard to believe Battousai wasn't scum.
Everyone except Tlp.Superfly wrote: Everyone thought Battousai was scum towards the end. Everyone attacked him and he just kept digging his hole deeper.
Battousai was unarguably and extremely scummy, I find it suspicious that Tlp never supported the lynch. Even Tamuz supported the lynch before it happened and his suspicions had been firmly planted on Tlp prior to that. This could be a scummy play by Tlp seeing the for sure mislynch building and stepping aside as to not be pounded in Day 2 as the hammer.
Most likely? Maybe. Could also be a scummy play on your part trying to clear your partner and distance yourself from him.Superfly wrote: tlp
Only person who didn't agree with the lynch. Was the first to be attacked during the day, ironically by Battousai.
opinion: Town, most likely
Battousai led his own bandwagon, starting with the role claim hint during the confirmation stage. His play was horrendous and could only be interpretted as scummy. Though he didn't vote, Tamuz planted the seeds of the case against Battousai in post 16. It just slowly grew from there due to Battousai's repeatedly terrible play.Superfly wrote: SSly
Started bandwagon on battousai based on meta and #39, on him from page 1 to the end, not yet said much about anyone besides bat.
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More role digging? Didn't we get enough of that from Battousai? This could be a scummy attempt on your part to expose a night target.Apyadg wrote: We now have two scum, one doc, one cop, and one vanilla, is it a good time to reveal roles?
I am very glad we have kept our roles hidden. It's bad enough we are at LYLO, but it would be much worse if the scum knew the identity of the power roles now.
I think the best thing for the town at this point is to keep the power roles hidden. If we can't get a lynch, we sure want to have a shot at making the NK fail.
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Even Tamuz showed his posthumous happiness that the power roles survived.Tamuz wrote: Good.
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I don't think much can be read into the hammer as Battousai, for good reason, had been at L-1 for a long time. Soup just came along and voted after seeing the obvious scumminess of Battousai, just like the rest of us who voted on him did. I'm sure with the repair of Soup's computer, we will get to see much more Soup and be able to get a better read on him.
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I had sensed a little connection between Tamuz and Battousai and kind of thought they were a scum pair. Goes to show the power of my sleuthing skills!! I am going to do a reread and see if anything else jumps out at me.-
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with the roles revealed, if we mislynch or no lynch, scum win. with them hidden, we at least had a chance if no lynch happened. now we MUST lynch scum or the game is over.soupfly wrote: this could help, but its risky. a claim would give the town a 2/3 chance of hitting scum. if the scum that is hit happens to be the roleblocker then game over. if not then there's still a chance in the endgame.
Kind of convenient that the guy you supposedly investigated just happened to get NK'd. This could be the basis of a fake claim.soupfly wrote:i am the cop.unfortunately i investigated Tamuz last night.
I agree, but we have to for sure lynch scum today now. No room for error.soupfly wrote: no point saving the power-roles for tomorrow if we don't get to tomorrow. besides, we'll still have one confirmed townie (either myself or the doc) around tomorrow so we'll at least have a 50% chance there.
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A little hasty on the vote, don't you think? This seems a little scummy to me like you are trying for a quick lynch.Apyadg wrote:Vote Soupfly
Are you claiming something here? So far, the only word is Soup's claim. I haven't seen anyone against him yet.Apyadg wrote: ...into the muddy territory of one person's word against another.
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So are you saying that you pressured someone for not voting or are you saying that I pressured you for not voting?Tlp wrote: I mean myself, Srry.
You need to start getting more clear about the things you are saying. The reading between the lines to get the meanings of your posts might fly in Day 1 but now that we are in Day 2 you need to leave no room for guessing.
I did not pressure anyone for not voting nor have I seen you pressuring anyone for not voting, please point it out for me so I don't have to accuse you of lying. Some people live by the theory of "lynch all liars."-
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If there is a no lynch and the doc protects the scum target during the night, we will be in Day 3 with the exact same 5 we have now unless there is a rule where the mod kills someone off that I am not aware of.soupfly wrote: you do realize this is Lylo and a mislynch or no lynch both mean town loses.
There is no such rule-
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If the roles are hidden the scum do not have any known targets. Then if we do a no lynch, and the doc protects the scum's night target, we are in Day 3 with the same 5 as now AND with more information because the cop's investigation info.Tlp wrote: But then we aren't any step further
Pointing out suspicions is not what I would call pressure but I think I at least know what you were talking about now.Tlp wrote: Post: 132
"Everyone except Tlp.
Battousai was unarguably and extremely scummy, I find it suspicious that Tlp never supported the lynch. Even Tamuz supported the lynch before it happened and his suspicions had been firmly planted on Tlp prior to that. This could be a scummy play by Tlp seeing the for sure mislynch building and stepping aside as to not be pounded in Day 2 as the hammer.
"
This is putting a bit of pressure on me because i was the only one not voting on Battu-
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If we lynch scum today, hoorah!! If we no lynch, though it be slim, we still have a shot to win. If we mislynch we lose.soupfly wrote: what are you smoking? if we do that we're still in the same situation as today: 3 townies and 2 scum. why is this even worth discussing?
Now, revealing power roles sure makes it easier for the rb to know who to target, doesn't it? Though, you are right, if we mislynch, it won't matter.soupfly wrote: even IF the doc manages to make the right protect tonight, there's still the issue of the role blocker which means that from this point on i will no longer be able to make any investigations cause they will block them.
If I recall correctly, you were on board with revealing the power roles on Day 1. How do you think Night 1 would have went had we went with your power role reasoning in Day 1 and what position would that have put us in now?soupfly wrote: i honestly don't know where you're coming up with these plans slysly. its either very poor town play or you're scum trying to convince us to play the poor odds.
In a perfect world, we will have grand discussion here in Day 2 which will reveal perfectly who the scum are and we will get a scum lynch. In the real world, it is very difficult to ever know for sure anything in this game unless you play everything very smart and make the game go several days to get the most info from posts and from investigations. I would rather no lynch and go into the night with a chance at survival than to mislynch and lose.
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Battousai followed up his initial scumminess with plenty more, such as fake and alternating claims and ignoring direct questions, etc... His play was unquestionably bad, thus, defending him in anyway at this point, IMO, seems very scummy.Superfly wrote: To me it seemed, that Battousai was thrown off balance right from the first attack, thus portraying himself as a weak player, who would have been easy for the scum to bandwagon in such a way. Also, half of his proof was a meta argument, most of which are weak and unreliable. Does not make him scum just because of this, but still something to consider
These were my exact initial thoughts as well. Apyadg kind of hinted at a counter claim. I will be very interested to see if he actually follows through with it now.Superfly wrote: 1.) You are a cop, you maybe got a guilty result on soup but regardless now you see him claim, you vote him because he is scum
2.) You are scum, you want to fool a townie into voting, so your buddy can quicklynch
3.) You are a rather stupid town-
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Below are our 2 cop claims:
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this could help, but its risky. a claim would give the town a 2/3 chance of hitting scum. if the scum that is hit happens to be the roleblocker then game over. if not then there's still a chance in the endgame.Apyadg wrote:We now have two scum, one doc, one cop, and one vanilla, is it a good time to reveal roles?
if we don't role claim then town has a 2/5 chance of lynching scum.
i think we need to take that chance because its lylo.
i am the cop.unfortunately i investigated Tamuz last night. sorry but i just had a gut feeling.
i know that i'm going to die but i think this greatly increases our chances of lynching today. no point saving the power-roles for tomorrow if we don't get to tomorrow. besides, we'll still have one confirmed townie (either myself or the doc) around tomorrow so we'll at least have a 50% chance there.
Apyadg, in 138 wrote:Vote Soupfly
You ignore the suggestions of the rest of the town to not roleclaim for the moment, and why? So you can get in your early claim to get people behind you, before "your role" is claimed. Unfortunately we're not into the muddy territory of one person's word against another.Apyadg, in 139 and 140 correcting the last sentence of 138, wrote: we're now, not we're not.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Apyadg, through correction of 138's final sentence vaguely counter claims cop, when he correctly wrote: Unfortunately we're now into the muddy territory of one person's word against another.
Soup's claim is calm, based on fairly reasonable logic (though his perfect world math is questionable and his context taken as a whole is incorrect, IMO) and well thought out.
Apyadg's claim, on the other hand, is a fat, sloppy whopper lead off with a vote and backed up by an emotionally driven scolding of Soup's claim based on very shallow reasoning.
Reading these two claims initially made me think that Apadyg is scum but something Soup himself recently said has me wondering if Soup is pointing out Apyadg's innocence while unknowingly exposing his own style of scumminess. That was:
It is obvious Apyadg didn't think about his claim very deeply which, using Soup's 161 reasoning, makes me think that maybe Apyadg really is the cop and that being the cop didn't make him feel the need to think things through as deeply as Soup felt. Apyadg didn't even bother to review his post before submitting it. I would think that scum would be much more careful, like Soup was in his claim, than this knowing that anything not thought through well is going to be attacked hard in lylo. Apyadg continues his sloppy play with some Battousai-like flip-flopping between cop and doc...Soupfly, in 161, wrote: 3) apy sure did need to think about his counter claim...that's what happens when you're not telling the truth --> you need to think about it so that you don't get caught up in your lie.
Apyadg, in 159, wrote: There's a very good reason that there hasn't been a speed-lynch, which is that the vote is on a scum player, of this I am sure, because the only cop in this game is me.
The last time we lynched someone for this type of horrendous play, we lynched a townie. I think we need to dig deeper today than we did in Day 1 to avoid repeating the same mistake in Day 2.Apyadg, in 160, wrote: It was a counter-claim, albeit one in which I didn't actually include the words "Oi, no, I'm the cop". Why didn't I? I suppose one could argue that I didn't because I was leaving it vague, in case it backfired, but this clearly isn't the case; it seems unmistakable to me that I'm saying I'm the doc there
Remembering Battousai at this point, it really wouldn't surprise me if a 3rd person claimed cop and turned out to be the real cop.
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This has me confused. Apyadg is now playing almost just like Battousai did in Day 1. Baseless, emotional and wishy-washy. Is this just another severe case of a bad townie? If Apyadg is the cop, that explains his immediate vote on Soupfly and explains why the vote remains.
Soupfly has been pushing for role exposure since day 1, which is scummy IMO because the less info the scum have the better it is for the town. Soup comes out in Day 2 immediately, preventing pre-claim discussion, with a claim that he obviously did "think about" before hand. Soupfly, did "you need to think about it so that you" didn't "get caught up in your lie?"
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I don't know who to believe, to me, there seems to be scumminess in each claim. If it weren't for the Day 1 result from Battousai's lynch and the fact that we are at lylo, I would most likely place a vote on Apyadg due to his sloppy flip flopping but facing the fact that we are at lylo and a mislynch creates a loss and using Soup's own reasoning from 161, I think aFOS:Soupflyis in store.-
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I did NOT say this!! Misquoting = VERY SCUMMY!!!Superfly wrote:Sly wrote:Oh my god, apyadg is stupid,BUT LOOK AT THIS GUY!!!!
I didn't call for no lynch, I said it was a valid option at this point, and I still believe that to a certain extent, because with a no lynch, we stilll have a chance to win, with a mislynch like we did in Day 1, the game is over and we lose.Superfly wrote: There are three other scummy points about Sly. He called for nolynch in lylo. He started the bandwagon on Battousai.
I would hardly call Battousai's lynch a bandwagon and as far as me starting it, Tamuz is the one who planted the seeds of Battousai's scumminess in post 16, not me. I didn't pressure anyone to vote on Battousai and does anyone really think Battousai didn't screw himself over in his very first confirmation post and then continue slitting his own throat with each additional post of his?
I didn't notice you removing your vote from Battousai either. Maybe his scumminess was blinding you too?!?!? Don't accuse me of doing something that you yourself did. You accusation is VERY SCUMMY.Superfly wrote: When he made the bandwagon post, all battousai had done was two newbie mistakes. Also it relied greatly on the meta argument. When I voted him at the end of page 2, it was only because I wanted to pressure him to defend better. I wasn't 100% sure he was scum.
Your possibilities are off and you have conveniently left off a few. I have included them for you.Superfly wrote: For the third point, let me bring out the possible scum pairs.
sly and apy
sly and soup
sly and tlp
apy and soup
apy and tlp
soup and tlp
The 4th one is out of the question. The 3rd, 5th and 6th one are hard to believe because tlp has been unscummy for the entire game. That leaves the 1st and 2nd. Both of them have slysly in it. Out of those two, the more likely one is the 1st, because of what I said earlier on.
super and tlp
super and apy
super and soup
You have misquoted me and you have repeatedly accused me of doing things I didn't do. To me, this can only mean 1 thing and that is that you are scum.
vote:Superfly
I would think Battousai was an isolated case too but now I have seen Apyadg exactly repeat many of Battousai's mistakes which makes me think he is a bad townie not thinking his actions through ahead of time.Superfly wrote: I can understand the second part, but battousai was clearly an isolated case, not a precedent.-
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Which part of "Sly wrote:" did I misunderstand? Superfly DID misquote me, PERIOD.soupfly wrote:
he didn't say you wrote this. he's characterizing your post and pretty accurately at that.SlySly wrote:
I did NOT say this!! Misquoting = VERY SCUMMY!!!Superfly wrote:Sly wrote:Oh my god, apyadg is stupid,BUT LOOK AT THIS GUY!!!!
Vote Count as of Post 184:
soupfly (1): Apyadg
Apyadg (1): soupfly
Superfly (1): SlySly
SlySly (1): Superfly
Not voting (1): Tlp
With 5 alive it is 3 to lynch-
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You sure do make a lot of assumptions. I know what "Sly wrote:" means no matter how you twist it or how it got there. You are not going to be able to backtrack out of misquoting me no matter what you or your scum buddy say about it. It is a fact that you did misquote me.Superfly wrote: That wasn't my intention and you know it.
I also know that "hinting" at something is not the same as "calling" for it.
I didn't do either and you have accused me of both and incorrectly stated that I "did" them after I pointed out clearly that I didn't. I stated an option that is better than a mislynch, I did not call or hint at it.
Superfly, misquoting and making false accusations about people, like you have been doing to me, is another tactic that scum find useful for creating confusion amongst the town.Superfly wrote: Exaggerating marginal mistakes is what scum likes to do.-
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I do know how the quoting system works on this forum and apparently you do to. That is why you don't use the quote tag when you are paraphrasing. It is a fact that you did misquote me. There is no way around it.
A no lynch is not good, I will agree, but it is UNARGUABLY better than a mislynch. I think it is obvious with my vote that I am not in favor of a no lynch.
There is nothing more manipulative than misquoting and false accusations and you are the one who has been engaged in that type of play.
A vote based on false accusations and misquoting is not one based on weak logic.-
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Will you please show me the post where I said what you quoted me as saying? When you realize that you can't, will you please admit openly that you did, in fact, misquote me?Superfly wrote:Sly wrote:Oh my god, apyadg is stupid,BUT LOOK AT THIS GUY!!!!
Will you please show me the post where I called for a no lynch? When you realize that you can't, will you please admit openly that you did, in fact, falsely accuse me of doing so?Superfly wrote: He called for nolynch in lylo.
In 176, you explained the mechanics of the mafiascum forum quoting perfectly. It is perfectly obvious that you understand how to use it so I will not give you a break for misusing it.Superfly wrote:
To clarify on this, I know the mechanics of quotes, but I don't know any unwritten mafiascum laws about it.
I do know how the quoting system works on this forum and apparently you do to.
There is no disputing that you misquoted me and falsely accused me of something I didn't do. That equates to scum in my book, especially in lylo.-
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You are correct, what you did was misquote me.Superfly wrote: I did not quote you.
You did say this before you misquoted me.Superfly wrote: I have never said I quoted you. Instead, before said summary I put in [ quote ] brackets I said this
If you want me to summarize the last post it would be
I didn't try to put words in your mouth, you tried to put them into mine.Superfly wrote: So stop trying to put words in my mouth and acknowledge that this argument against me is made up.
In other words, you did falsely accuse me of calling for a no lynch. Talking about how a no lynch is better than a mislynch, which is indisputably true, is not calling for one.Superfly wrote: There was never one specific post. Instead you argued in favour of it.
Thinking there is a possibility is not calling for as you falsely accused me of doing.Superfly wrote: Therefore, you think there is a possibility.
What is more harmful to town a mislynch or a no lynch?Superfly wrote: Because no lynch is detrimental to the town, you therefore hinted the town towards something that is harmful to us.
The questions you pointed out that I ignored are questions that I have already answered in other posts. Once again, you are trying to accuse me of something that is not true. You are the one that is guilty of ignoring my posts and then asking me to repeat myself.
The one who has no basis for their vote at this point in time is you, Superfly. Your vote on me is only because I am relentless. Yes, I am relentless because there is no way in hell that I am going to sit back while you misquote me and falsely accuse me of things I didn't do.
I didn't ignore Soup's post, I responded to it and am awaiting his response to my response. Another false accusation from you, Superfly.
I point out very obvious scummy acts by you and look how defensive you have been about it, Superfly!!! I think my vote is definitely in the right place.-
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SlySly Jack of All Trades
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SlySly Jack of All Trades
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Superfly, you did misquote me and you did falsely accuse me of doing things that I didn't. These things are a fact.
Paraphrasing some of the things you have said...
I never hinted at or called for a no lynch. I merely discussed the fact that a no lynch is better than a mislynch for the town at this point.Superfly wrote: I am scum and since I am, there is no way in hell I am going to admit misquoting SlySly nor am I going to admit that I falsely accused him of things that he did, yet I am going to vehemently deny and attempt to confuse the rest of the players while doing so.
Which is worse for the town at this point, a mislynch or a no lynch?-
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SlySly Jack of All Trades
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SlySly Jack of All Trades
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I see you ignored my question when I asked you which part of "Sly wrote:" did I misunderstand.soupfly wrote:
he did not misquote you. he did a characterization of your post. there's a difference between a mischaracterization and a misquote. until you learn the difference stop wasting our time with this argument because nobody is buying it. the fact that he used the quoting system was for effect, but nobody thought that those were your exact words.SlySly wrote:Superfly, you did misquote me and you did falsely accuse me of doing things that I didn't. These things are a fact.
its a silly discussion at this point. if you want to say he mischaracterized your post then fine, but its a matter of interpretation so you're not gonna get too far with this line of reasoning.
I think you and Super are scum buddies and both of you ignoring my questions over and over is getting more and more obvious.
He did misquote me and he did falsely accuse me of doing things I didn't do.-
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SlySly Jack of All Trades
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SlySly Jack of All Trades
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No, my point 100% is completely right and that is...soupfly wrote: so if you consider the no lynch you have to evaluate it against the lynching option:
-lynch: 50% chance to make it to day 3
-no lynch: 8.3% chance to make it to day 3
can we let this go because you are completely off on this point.
mislynch = 0% chance of town win
no lynch > 0% chance of town win
It is indisputable.-
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SlySly Jack of All Trades
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What do you think [ quote ] brackets are for? Do you think they are for pointing out stock tips or for quoting someone?Superfly wrote: I did not quote you. I have never said I quoted you. Instead, before said summary I put in [ quote ] brackets I said this
If you want me to summarize the last post it would be-
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SlySly Jack of All Trades
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You are right Soup, we have been messing around long enough. Super is scummy in his own right but I think you are lying about being the cop.soupfly wrote:bah, this game has really died down.
well i've stated my case as to why i think the cop claim needs to be resolved today. do you guys agree?
unvote
vote:Soupfly-
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