Mini 1868 - Sakura Wars: So Long, My Love Mafia [GAME OVER]
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Reflektor Goon
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I haven't bothered trying to break the setup as the vig/gunsmith introduce so much uncertainty, if nobody else wants to try I can later.
VOTE: Tammy
Don't like the opening posts. I'll review your games later to see if this is a me problem but those opening appeals read horrifically.
I've been awake for well over 30 hours and will be in transit for another 7, so you'll have to deal with Nacho for now. He gets to pick the icon, too.
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Reflektor Goon
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Reflektor Goon
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Reflektor Goon
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Reflektor Goon
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I'm sorry that I didn't warn you about the nature of the game when I signed up; the two big appeals of this game for me were either that 1) I'd have a large chance of rolling scum with Prism and showcasing my skills with a bigger than usual block and a setup that pretty heavily discouraged bussing or 2) I'd roll town in a game where we could solve and lock down the game early and that's just it. I don't think this game is unbalanced. I do think that it is swingy as all hell which is a good thing in this situation; if we can townread 1-2 players who aren't PRs and if scum whiff a kill or fail to kill a PR N1, then we get to make pretty short work of a 4 man scum team and get them complaining about how harshly the odds were stacked against them.In post 23, Tammy wrote:That means nacho's chances of being scum just went up even more
So, this is basically an evil mod game, right? Like hey, games aren't hard enough. Scum don't win enough games around here, let's add an extra member. Oh and as if that's not enough, let's make one of them a godfather too. And limit the cop. Yep that sounds just right.
I'm talking some ideas over with Prism now. I want to spend a little time tomorrow focusing on non-massclaim scenarios (should we lynch? shouldn't we lynch?) because there are lots of things that could happen if we don't massclaim today and the worst case scenario if we do massclaim doesn't look too bad at all.-
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Reflektor Goon
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If we lynch today, we have the chance of hitting a PR or outing a PR (via hitting scum who claims PR). The best case scenario for lynching seems to be hitting a scummy looking VT unless I'm missing something from what thinking I've done so far, which means that it might be something that we don't want to do unless we decide to massclaim and rush the scum today.In post 39, Tammy wrote:Would no lynching today be beneficial? We'd go to night with 13 people. The roles could act and we could maybe start day two with more information. Would that help at all or am I being silly?
Also I'm dwelling. Being home alone is no fun.-
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Reflektor Goon
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We can trust the cop pretty reliably; there's a godfather concern, but that can go out of the window by killing/lynching the godfather (and we have a lot of tools to kill him), whereas the gunsmith having the ability to give out guns/get perfectly reliable townreads is still a strong role; I don't think false positives hurt the role much at all if we play it right.In post 133, Tammy wrote:
What does it change?In post 125, Medea the Alien wrote:Not penguin so I'm skipping all the Tammy questions, unless some of them were directed at me. I imagine it does change things that Tammy's posts were made form the point of view of all investigative roles being one-shots. That WOULD be desperate times.
The only thing it changes in my mind is that if we make it to day three we might not be in terrible shape, but that was also before it was pointed out that gunsmith's actually can give false positives. So, yay we have a cop we can't trust and a gunsmith we could use results to mislynch with. Woo.
Whether or not they're one-shot, we can still lose the game on day two.
(And yeah, I had that melt down privately about the day vig was just gonna shut up about the sky is falling bit.)-
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Reflektor Goon
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Have you and Cabd not discussed massclaiming/no lynching as a possibility so far? This is an unconventional setup, and sometimes unconventional setups require a little unconventional playing.In post 48, Medea the Alien wrote:And I know I haven't played in a while, but WTF is with no lynching and mass claiming being bandied about as good ideas this early? Town points for AJ for not buying in.
Why does AJ get townpoints for sticking to Mafiascum approved theory?
In post 48, Medea the Alien wrote:Gamma Emerald, why would you want to throw in RQS at this point? Are you dissatisfied with the discourse in progress? What was your thought process that mass claiming would be useful?
Both of these questions seem a little weak to me, but as I'm writing this I realize how long it's been since you've actually played a game so am probably being overly harsh on your entrance. Hi Penguin! It's good to see you again!In post 56, Medea the Alien wrote:Okay, so on the playing side of that, you said you have high expectations of this player list. How's that working out from your perspective so far?-
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Reflektor Goon
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This is a pretty lame approach, actually; I always thought you were the type that didn't mind a bit of setup speculation but maybe I'm just assuming that because Rubix Cube avatar and puzzles?In post 24, Aj The Epic wrote:*insert snarky response about you just being bad*
There's really no point in worrying about D2 already. If Vig shoots tonight and misses, then we'll have to mass claim tomorrow. That's about all there is to it.
Hi Gamma!In post 32, Gamma Emerald wrote:Also hi nacho, prism, and tammy
Penguin's post makes it look like they didn't talk about the setup period (I don't think that she'd dismiss no lynches and massclaiming if they'd discussed the setup as scum), which means that outright dismissing no lynches and massclaiming without thinking about things or asking Cabd about it all does seem kind of strange. I think her opening posts seem kind of stilted but I am also trying to be mindful of this being her first game back in a while and give her a little space to shake that rust off but that still stands out to me.In post 55, Tammy wrote:What sucks is if there was a way to use this setup to our advantage in any way, that's one of the hydras I expected to use it or discuss it. I expected that if they were town they'd engage me on it - either to tell me to settle the fuck down there's nothing I can do or to have an idea if there's something to do. (The other is the nacho hydra, but I don't expect him to post in this game before tomorrow at the earliest so I'll wait with bated breath there.)
I understand arguments for directing a possible vig shot; don't really understand why we'd direct investigatives.In post 72, Tammy wrote:I also thought about that. We could maybe put a pool of two to three for the two to investigate out of so that we can avoid the investigating oneself thing. The only drawback to directing in a sense is that scum are involved in the direction process and we might have investigatives who just have a good sense of who to investigate?
This also stood out to me, especially since you were talking about the possibility that the game ends on Night 2 (I don't agree with the seem thing), but it's also the type of thing that I'm not sure scum would be quick to post if they were thinking about it; I think they'd be excited about having a big scum team and being able to end the game early and wouldn't be asking townies why they're afraid of losing.In post 75, Tammy wrote:The only thing I didn't like about LUV was when he asked me why I seemed so concerned about four scum. Both because the answer speaks for itself
I don't really agree with the RQS thing but you do seem a bit quieter than usual; is there any particular reason for it?In post 100, Gamma Emerald wrote:Yeah you're shit at reading me
Your original argument was that people "should" read the setup before signing up and because Tammy didn't do something she should do, she was lying and thus more likely scum (presumably); this argument looks more like "scum read setups less than town". I don't really think either of these things are alignment indicative; and, if it helps you at all coming from someone with experience with Tammy, her not reading setups thoroughly before she begins playing is something she does fairly frequently.In post 115, Persivul wrote:In my experience, scum, who know the alignments, are less likely to have thoroughly read the setup than town. Further, while setup spec can be beneficial, it can also be used as a way to appear busy without really scum hunting.
Agreed!In post 130, BBmolla wrote:a whole page dedicated to investigating someone who is probably town anyway is wholly a waste of time, you can disagree with me if you want but you're just plain wrong
What do you think of what Persivul brought up wrt Tammy?
"my reason for scumreading Tammy was wrong"In post 131, BBmolla wrote:if that's nacho you're double wrong
shame.
What is the town motivation for posting it that LUV's going for?In post 141, Empking wrote:
It is AI because it seems like something scum would do for calculated town brownie-points. It's bad for the same reason.In post 139, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:What makes my reaction bad and why is it AI?
It's a bit more nuanced than that; the reason why Tammy was pushing Penguin is because she wasn't engaging Tammy about those "bad ideas" in particular. I'd expect (and have a wild guess that Tammy probably expects the same thing) that Penguin as town would try to sort out Tammy early since they've played together plenty of times and are friends and all of that good stuff, and I'd also expect that Penguin as town wouldn't expect Tammy to propose horrible plans for breaking the setup, so it'd make sense to question her since it'd be killing two birds with one stone (sort out Tammy, correct bad play/catch something she thought about before). My bigger problem with her post is that she dismissing No Lynching as massclaiming as dumb strategies before it looks like she's thought much about it but Cabd's post implies differently, so maybe he just had some misplaced confidence in dismissing those moves immediately.In post 151, Persivul wrote:IIRC you talked about some strategies...Madea said those were bad ideas...you voted them. IMO that at least comes close to omgussy. Note that omgussy is an observation, not a charge, as you see omgussy town all the time.
Maybe the lack of anything alignment indicative? Every comment that you've made so far is a throwaway comment about setup or a neutral observation or a question; if we are going to win this game, we need to lead early, and that means that townies are going to have to start sticking their necks out as far as possible as early as possible. Why are you townreading AJ? Do you have any scumreads/small niggles that have bothered you/things that look kind of weird?In post 153, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:The first two points are NAI and the latter is subjective. What felt safe about my first five posts? My lack of an RVS vote? My suggestion?
Why did you decide to ISO LUV? Were you just trying to see what all of the hype was about? What do you think of people who have been pushing LUV now that you've decided there's nothing to see?In post 154, Indigo wrote:I do feel, having ISO'd LUV, that his posts might have not been the best posts but there has been nothing scummy about him.
UNVOTE:
Vote: Lil Uzi Vert-
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Reflektor Goon
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Oh, and one more thing before I disappear into the night -
KBW, does this game follow Natural Action Resolution? As in, if a gunsmith gifts a gun to someone on the same night they are killed, does the gift go through or no?-
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Reflektor Goon
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I don't think it means anything in particular; I don't understand why town would say it, hence my initial reaction, but after thinking about it a little bit I don't really understand why scum would say it either.In post 169, Tammy wrote:Your response to LUV's original reaction to my concern about the setup looked like you were leaning on it being a townie reaction. Did I misunderstand that or did you change your mind based on the lack of posting and substance.
I thought that implied more that she thought about the setup a little bit, not that they talked about it together. If they didn't talk about it at that point, I find Penguin dismissing no lynch/massclaim ideas immediately to be pretty weird. If they did, then I can see Cabd being (mistakenly) confident about them both being bad moves and I can see Penguin as town trusting him on that. Does that make sense?In post 169, Tammy wrote:Penguin's second post implies that as well. She said this:
"Given that this was advertised as the open setup it is, I find it weird that anyone wouldn't have done some cursory thinking about the perils of the town:scum ratio, so why go weird about it now that the game has started?"-
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Reflektor Goon
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I understand that approach. I don't think that making something out of nothing is the worst thing in the world as long as you can pull back and see you're making something out of nothing; it's a hell of a lot easier to read a room full of misguided people than it is to read a room where everyone's shuffling their feet and looking at the floor and waiting for someone to do something that really, really stands out.In post 171, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:I understand, the thing is I'm not going to force things. It's not how I like to play. I find that a lot of people on this site don't understand that a lot of stuff is just noise or NAI and tend to end up making something out of nothing as a result, rather than letting things progress naturally.
I am leaning town on AJ because a lot of his posts imply the same attitude I'm feeling towards all of the setup speculation and 99 felt super genuine. I don't have any scum reads at this time.-
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Reflektor Goon
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Hi Gamma.In post 172, Gamma Emerald wrote:Looking at this there's not much to it, looks like Reflektor is making something out of nothing.
VOTE: Reflektor
I've said more things than just that - do you mind commenting on them?-
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Reflektor Goon
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Reflektor Goon
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That's what I'm agreeing with you about unless I'm missing something?In post 177, Tammy wrote:Right but that means she thought about the setup before hand and still responded to suggestions the way she did, which is the weird thing.-
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Reflektor Goon
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Reflektor Goon
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That makes sense.In post 184, Tammy wrote:No, I can imagine her trusting a cabd interpretation. I just still think that if Penguin!town had thought about or discussed the setup with cabd, her reaction to the suggestions would be different. The post looks like the setup was not thought about or talked about at all, at the very least from a town perspective.
The "going down a rabbit hole" thing I thought she was referring to you thinking through about the bad ideas and then talking your way out of them which is problematic because of how immediately dismissive it was but that was something I already touched on. As far as implying that your opening was suspicious, I'm not sure that's what she was getting at. Her "I'd read more into it, but" could also be referring to her going after you for things in the past that aren't really scumtells for you; was waiting for her to clarify that when she came into the thread next.In post 184, Tammy wrote:What do you think about her second post to me wherein she says that she doesn't have a read on me and that going down a rabbit hole isn't alignment indicative, and basically implies that my opening was suspicious, which then really makes her lack of interaction an even bigger problem? I was kinda expecting you to respond to that post, but you didn't.-
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Reflektor Goon
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Commenting on LUV suspicions would be a nice start.In post 183, Gamma Emerald wrote:Anything in particular?
I just think that your thought process approaching me was a bit weird. You come into the game, you see us making a vote that you don't really like because it doesn't seem well reasoned, you decide to vote us because we made a vote that doesn't seem well reasoned, and then you get pedited by a big wall talking about a number of things and you don't decide to address any of them? Is our vote on BBMolla really the scummiest thing in thread right now?-
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Reflektor Goon
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One cookie, one scum.In post 188, Tammy wrote:I don't think she's ever gone after me in the past?-
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Reflektor Goon
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I think that this is a silly worry; if I was scumpartners with Cabd, I'd be confident enough in him being able to worm his way out of trouble where I'd be comfortable enough pushing him and wouldn't need to leave "outs" so I wouldn't have to lynch him later. I don't think I leave outs when pushing my buddies in general.In post 188, Tammy wrote:offering enough outs so that you don't have to scumread them yourself.-
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Reflektor Goon
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There's nothing similar to this game except your interaction with each other; I think sometimes penguin picks up on false signals from you and sometimes fails to pick up on the strong clear ones.In post 193, Tammy wrote:
In a face to face resistance game yes she went after me after you led her around. And she scum read me there because my reaction to your suspicion on me in which I was taken aback by the way you went around it was slower than she thought it would be as town after you capitalized on it there and pushed it.In post 191, Reflektor wrote:
One cookie, one scum.In post 188, Tammy wrote:I don't think she's ever gone after me in the past?
There's nothing similar to this game here. You really are just giving them an out so you don't have to scum read them aren't you? Why do you always have to be fucking scum??? I feel like pieguyn in cap com right now.-
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Reflektor Goon
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It does really, really suck.In post 196, Tammy wrote:Whatever I'm going to bed. Have fun directing the conversation away from your partner.
This just sucks.-
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Reflektor Goon
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Reflektor Goon
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And for the record yes, I know that you don't feel that strongly about the scumread on me but I'd expect that it's probably outside circumstances magnifying a small niggling feeling which was booo because I was hoping that this would be like a Westeros instant early townread type of game especially when I felt like I was playing well despite not having much brain power to do so.-
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Reflektor Goon
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You're wrong, but your wrongness doesn't make me love you any less!In post 202, Tammy wrote:Actually it's manipulation.-
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Reflektor Goon
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Alright hey everyone, this post is going to be split into two parts, one has my original thoughts and one is responding to questions about yesterday.
So far I concur with Tammy's (and Nacho's) points on Medea. In particular, I concur that the town points thrown to Aj were nonsense. My reason that they were second yesterday was that these:In post 48, Medea the Alien wrote:Gamma Emerald, why would you want to throw in RQS at this point? Are you dissatisfied with the discourse in progress? What was your thought process that mass claiming would be useful?
Read as superfluous or lazy to me. Meaningful answers are unlikely to come from either. That said, now having energy and not feeling like walking death, there's more to their posts. I think the "Aj townpoints" are more alignment indicative on their part.In post 56, Medea the Alien wrote:
Okay, so on the playing side of that, you said you have high expectations of this player list. How's that working out from your perspective so far?In post 41, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:I think our best bet is to just play and convince the vigilante to stay put if we mislynch D1.
I also strongly dislike the late reaction of #125 to the setup. It reads to me as following Tammy's lead with setup complaints. For all Medea's apparent discussion about breaking the setup, I find it hard to believe that the most helpful thing to tell the town is that.
Aj would likely be my second vote right now, as for someone who hates setup discussion their ISO has hardly anything else. BB is still worth following up on, and I'll explain why in my next post. I currently have no townreads, if I had a gun to my head I'd guess Tammy but my confidence in that is low. Fate needs to start playing mafia.
I'm still doing my own thinking on possible breaks before clogging the thread with it, as it gets in the way of reads more than anything else, but a quick note is that we're really undervaluing our assets. Cop gets true guilties, gunsmith gives true innocents. Ergo, gunsmith investigates townreads, cop scumreads. The innocent for a cop has an 88% chance of being town and the guilty for a gunsmith has a 75% chance of being confirmed, as only one scum will claim cop. Vig kill is more powerful than a mislynch. This is swingy as hell but if we get a good Day 1 lynch off, or even just have a good N1 it's hard to imagine us losing.
I've still got to talk to Nacho about LUV but for now I'm moving our vote to Medea. So far this looks less the LUV I was scum with a few months ago.
VOTE: Medea-
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Reflektor Goon
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Your tone was fine (though that wasn't my opinion at the time) but the crux of it is/was that I tend to scumread openings that are "Are you town with me? I hope you're town with me." My opening votes are purposely vague for a few reasons. The first is you get more interesting, revealing responses if you leave it open ended. The second is that often I don't have anything hard, and I basically just stared at it and said "Feels scummy/town"In post 29, Tammy wrote:It's definitely a you problem.
Just talk to your other head. You'll have to wait until tomorrow though.
But I would like for you to explain what about them reads horrifically? Like how do you not read that and go oh that looks like she has experience with my other head, maybe I'll talk to my other head about it? How does that not be a thing that enters your mind at all?
Scum tends to find the town a lot easier than the town do, and it pinged me because it was done in a way that stifled a discussion that in my opinion was fruitful. Now, there's votes I like better, explained above.In post 134, Tammy wrote:What didn't you like about BB's defense?
Alchemists don't make good mafia players.In post 172, Gamma Emerald wrote:Looking at this there's not much to it, looks like Reflektor is making something out of nothing.
VOTE: Reflektor
To use your words, I decided it was a me problem. In particular, and please don't take offense to this, is that you seem like a very personal player. Your consecutive posts reinforced this and sold me on it. I doubt that after 4 years that your whole choice of playstyle is AI. Your early appeal likely meant nothing, and even if it does it'll take more time to go over your past games and read it. You also are expecting a lot of deference to Nacho out of me, and that's something I'm not going to give. He recruited me to help his scum game but I'm not deadweight as town. I'll use him, but I don't care if he's God himself. I will have the best reads in the town, and in my hydra, or die trying. The fact that you know him, and presumably have more ideas about what he scumreads, is all the more reason not to just defer to him.In post 201, Tammy wrote:Prism - Why did you realize that your original scum read on me was wrong?-
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Reflektor Goon
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What comments on his posts stood out to you in particular? Do you feel like the people who made those comments were justified or reaching?In post 190, Indigo wrote:I ISOed LUV because of some comments on his posts, so i thought that i would try to see their point of view. People can push whoever they want, if i have a solid read on them (its early D1 so i dont have much reads) then i will chime in but im not going to hard defend someone unless i feel strongly about the person's alignment.-
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Reflektor Goon
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I don't actually understand what you mean by this.In post 206, Aj The Epic wrote:(because of a mafia-expressed reason ROFL)-
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Reflektor Goon
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Going to need to explain this one. Flipping reads after a revelation that I should try harder is one of my trademark scum moves. I see nothing overtly town in his posts.In post 228, Fate wrote:AJ is town, my apologies. I see Nacho is in Reflektor
Shadonra has made exactly one post. Empking on the other hand got caught with a case of the biased by LUV.In post 235, Fate wrote:shadonra is making blatantly scummy posts and I don't really want to go that route just yet either. Empking is leaning town at the moment
VOTE: Fate
Probably going to switch back to Medea later but this deserves more attention.
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Reflektor Goon
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Reflektor Goon
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This post is just going to be responses to questions asked by others, impressions of last few pages coming up next.
I never said he felt town to me either, I only said this looks nothing like the game I played where I was scum with him, which is here.In post 255, Medea the Alien wrote:Can you elaborate a bit? Because nothing from his entrance on has felt town to me.
The issue with the lazy questions is that I can't see what insight you were trying to gain from them. They seem like questions for the sake of it. I was taking a different approach to the game entirely, and I've explained previously part of why I leave my opening posts so open ended. Another part that was unintentional was that my read on Tammy was shitty and I missed several whole sentences because I was walking death who was well beyond the point of physical exhaustion.In post 255, Medea the Alien wrote:I'm not quite buying that I'm horrendously lazy here. Grasping at straws, yes; but what better questions do you think I should have been asking? Because you weren't asking any.
Agreeing with my scumread, which has a 2/3 chance of being wrong to begin with, is not much of a towntell. It's more than a casual mind change, it's the pretext behind it that I explicitly list as one of my personal go-to tactics, which you're justifying my use of here. I don't get how you can be confused about it. Empking isn't scummy in my book, he was just clearly biased against LUV in his exchange with him-whether that's scum motivated or not is unclear.In post 255, Medea the Alien wrote:I'm confused by your thought process here. You're voting the person who's on board with your top scum read? See, I tend to think people who need to overexplain their read changes (cough, Indigo, cough) are scummier than casual mind changes. And you think Empking looks scummy through all that?
He's been MIA for the past 2-3 days but before that, just statements revolving around how he tries to get a read on you. I'm not revealing what those are, ask him after the game if you're curious.Fate wrote:And what has Nacho said about me? Curious that opinion didn't cross your mind.
I'm going to use Nacho, I'm not going to defer to Nacho. There's a big difference.Tammy wrote:Prism - I never meant to suggest that you had to defer to nacho on everything. I did mean on my opening though. Though if you weren't going to defer to nacho on thoughts on me, why are you waiting to see what he thinks of Medea?
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Reflektor Goon
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I'm actually really not sure how to feel about these last few pages. I like Shadonra's posts (in the sense that they feel town) even though I disagree with his opinion on Medea. I don't like Medea's latest posts despite their high effort and volume, especially #255.
Fate/Persivul/Aj are all works in progress. I'm juggling a bit too much today to really put in as much as I'd like. I'll try to come back to these later, responding to questions towards me is easy but reading for alignment is much harder. I'm having a hard time pinning down what to think about Persivul's posts especially. Don't be surprised if my initial impressions given above flip when I really get a chance to sit down and focus. (I realize the irony of this considering what I said about Fate)
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I don't really think that struggling to get into a game is particularly indicative for Fate, and I think the tripping over himself (referring to his treatment of your slot specifically) is more likely to come from town.In post 224, Aj The Epic wrote:I've never played with Fate but I'd imagine a 5 year vet wouldn't struggle this much getting into a game/tripping over himself in the first few pages as town.
A part of me died when you said "vote well deserved" to such a lame, lame entry.In post 227, Fate wrote:This game does deserve some effort on my part. Vote well deserved
Which hydra is Nacho again?
This is a fine idea, assuming that we don't massclaim on Day 2.In post 244, Medea the Alien wrote:This means that if those roles die later on (post-Day Two), we know what their investigative results are from beyond the grave. Also might be useful for dealing with scum counterclaims, as they have members to burn on that stuff. That's how I would suggest taking advantage of the heavy investigative mechanic.
We should probably be massclaiming on Day 2.-
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I think you're town, Prism doesn't. I'm perfectly comfortable with Prism feeling around and doing his own thing for now.In post 327, Fate wrote:I asked you specifically to have Nacho comment on my alignment and your hydras vote on me, Reflektor.
This is top priority, especially now with Tammy down I'm short on players I can trust if they're town-
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Reflektor Goon
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In this specific scenario, Tammy talked about no lynching and massclaiming, which you addressed in your first posts - if it was interesting enough to comment on, why wasn't it interesting enough to talk to Tammy about (or are you saying something else...).In post 251, Medea the Alien wrote:And as far as direct interaction with you goes, if you'd said anything I found interesting maybe I would have.
I don't think that your worries about Tammy freaking out on you if you deviate from "Tammy is the towniest town to ever have towned" are well-founded; she does react strongly at times and she does question people when they give reads on her if they feel weird or they aren't what she's expecting, but I think that she was more hurt in this scenario because she thought you were saying that she was a chore to play with/that you had to walk on glass around her.
The number of LyLos is less important to me than the number of reads we need to have right; massclaiming leads to a guaranteed number of mislynches which seems like a pretty valuable thing to me right now.In post 251, Medea the Alien wrote:At the partway point of this slow readthrough I'll admit that I can see an option for massclaiming today. I think it stands a really good chance of going completely wrong, but in taking the time to write out how the worst case scenario would go down all the way to the first LyLo (of three potential if we keep picking right!) and who would likely be left alive, it's not something I think would be fun, but assuming a couple decent reads to work from in the resultant claimed VT pool, it might work out. I think looking at that and without running the scenario a Day Two massclaim discussion would be infinitely better with some results to report at the end of it, as some lucky investigating could make it fait accompli.
There's no reason why we need a lynch in order to generate information; information is generated by scumhunting and talking, which is what's happening now.In post 255, Medea the Alien wrote:I hate no lynch on principle, especially since we wouldn't be no lynching and mass claiming at the same time, which leaves the investigatives absolutely nothing to go on. Massclaim I was mostly thinking about where we'd end up in terms of PRs. And...redoing the worst case scenario it's actually four LyLos to survive. Or maybe the first one was too. Regardless, it's a gamble. Looking at Day Two massclaim gets pretty messy if we don't have definitive investigative results (as in results that aren't the false positive/negative types for each role). I think my initial stance holds.-
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Reflektor Goon
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Interesting.In post 255, Medea the Alien wrote:Fate's 235 might be my favorite damn post so far just for having multiple reads/lines of interest clearly stated. (yes, I get the irony as I ramble on)
Is there a reason that conversation couldn't have existed if they were scum?In post 259, shadonra wrote:I find scum unlikely to talk about this or lie about this conversation:
voting someone doesn't just magically put pressure on them, especially when the vote itself was the entirety of what you've provided to the game so far plus a few other names that you pulled out of a hatIn post 270, Randomnamechange wrote:@fate i voted you BECAUSE you were the biggest wagon out of my scumreads. being a solo vote on someone achieves much less pressure than a wagon does.
if i was scum and you voted me like that, you'd beremovingpressure from my wagon - pretty easy to shift a wagon when someone offers themselves up as a juicy, juicy target.
I think it's possible that you're confusing them with LUV.In post 299, Medea the Alien wrote:They sound about as disengaged as is possible.
I'm too tired to parse Penguin's large post at the moment, I'll get to that in the morning.-
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Reflektor Goon
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Nothing stood out to you about the vote/unvote of LUV?In post 301, Persivul wrote:I agree with them on the LUV push, and that's mostly what they discussed.-
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Reflektor Goon
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I do have to say that while the Empking/LUV discussion hasn't really created anything particularly interesting, I do agree with this point by LUV as a refutation to Empking's main point.In post 321, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:Discussion is a two-way street. Your original complaint was that my naked vote was creating a bad atmosphere because I didn't give a reason.-
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Reflektor
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Reflektor Goon
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I'm not sure I understand why you're confused; are you townreading LUV for any particular reason or...?In post 336, Realeo wrote:1) I am not sure I understand LuV wagon, either the early wagon or the late wagon
Agreed.In post 336, Realeo wrote:2) I reject the motion of hypo claim. Hypo claim in D2 would only be beneficial if we get throught to D3, but we would only get to D3 if we're in good shape. If we're in a good shape, why take the gamble? I understand the motion, I have done hypo claim in the past in @EM, but I don't think hypo claim is justified for this game.
He's not talking about alignment, he's talking about competence.In post 343, Empking wrote:
Can you not trust Realeo?In post 327, Fate wrote:I asked you specifically to have Nacho comment on my alignment and your hydras vote on me, Reflektor.
This is top priority, especially now with Tammy down I'm short on players I can trust if they're town
I have absolutely no idea what you're actually saying here, but I like it.In post 347, Empking wrote:I think that's the problem of more high-density mafia where there is a lack of self-reinforcing town energy. Its why lylo is often so slow too.-
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Reflektor Goon
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"There's no town motivation in these posts" isn't the greatest reason to scumread a slot about to launch into a 7 day V/LA.In post 369, Medea the Alien wrote:Being VLA or replacing out does not absolve one of one's posts; if so I wouldn't be begrudgingly townreading the tammy slot , grey. Which parts of the case on us form others that are your townreads to you agree with specifically?
Being transparent about who he's about to vote isn't particularly scummy; confirmation bias is a thing.In post 370, Medea the Alien wrote:BTW grey is scum who looks for reasons to justify the vote later, not town who looks for reasons to decide where to vote. It was obviously building up to hop on our wagon several posts ago during the past page.-
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Reflektor Goon
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I'm being a fucking great hydra partner and not commandeering the vote, correct.In post 395, Fate wrote:Reflektor am I wrong or are you STILL voting me and haven't explained or followed up with Nacho about how I'm scum here-
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Reflektor Goon
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Reflektor Goon
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Reflektor Goon
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^^^In post 399, -Grey- wrote:
Probably.In post 398, Realeo wrote:Am I the only one who is townleaning shadonra?
if you want that to change, explaining where your thought process is the most important first step.
I'm confused why you're seeing LUV's and Tammy's posting as comparable?In post 404, Realeo wrote:To be more precise, I find it confusing that you scumread LuV, but didn't scumread Tammy. Tammy is not fitting in? If I were old timer like Reflektor, I would be alerted, which what Reflektor did.
Also, you note that Prism attacked BBMolla for similar reasons, but I think that he was missing a bit of meta context; I've also played pretty extensively with Tammy and ended up townreading her instantly, although I'm not really sure that I needed the meta in order to do so.-
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Reflektor Goon
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In post 405, Fate wrote:I admit I may have given Molla too much credit for old times sake as well, hes doing less than fuckall this game
Not concerned.-
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Reflektor Goon
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Prism voted Fate; I'll be moving the vote shortly.In post 497, Persivul wrote:
Strange that you're voting fate, but here you talk to him like he's your partner.In post 495, Reflektor wrote:fate my heart's not in the randomidget lynch
there's nothing wrong with it at all but I want a lynch that gets my blood pumping a little more
Personally as random fails to engage after saying he would, my blood is starting to pump for him a little.
I've seen more broken promises than I've seen ones that people have managed to keep intact; one more isn't exactly a surprise.-
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Reflektor Goon
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Reflektor Goon
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it's less of an appeal to experience and more of just plain wonky reasoningIn post 410, BBmolla wrote:
this is an appeal to experienceIn post 403, Realeo wrote:For someone, that is a regular scummie from 2011, I find it hard for that to fly.
I can guaruntee that experience =/= skill and that I am shit at this game and can link multiple games to prove it-
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Reflektor Goon
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I've seen him play better as town.In post 412, BBmolla wrote:My read lessened on LuV when it became clear it might be a meta issue
Prism's seen him play better as scum.
I've been waiting for LUV to step up and become himself again but we have a limited amount of time and a limited amount of bropasses and I'm not really interested in letting him live until he shows some tiny spark of interest.-
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Reflektor Goon
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Excellent, glad that my master plan is working.In post 422, shadonra wrote:I'm starting to lean scum on Realeo. 384 strikes me more as white knighting than a real defense, mostly because of the mention of day 2 lylo, and 387 appears shallow to me. I think I would lean scum on Reflektor, but it's hard to muster the will to dig through his posts.
Did you have an opinion? Do you really think that scum replaces out for the reasons she did?-
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Reflektor Goon
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hey empking - who are your town reads and why do you have them?In post 423, Empking wrote:Real:
This is it. Its not as bad as I remember it, although it was only replacing my random vote, so I was not necessarily blown away by it at the time. Essentially there are so many reactions to Tammy's comments and town would make all of them - being less tactical and self-preserving - but not often this ne. This is real interaction but is devoid of underreaction or (more likely) overreaction. Essentially, its too perfect (but lacking any artefacts of thinking through the subject raher than the post*) thus seeming planned or calculated.In post 18, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:I don't math but sounds about right. Why do you seem so concerned?
Imagine a commet heading towards earth. Some people scream and run around. Some stay deathly still. One guy is tring to calm people don and he's a doctor of physics. Another one is also being calm and interacting with the others an is uper-reasonable. THe film follows this guy. At the end, however, it is shown that, in a twist,he is an alien controlling the meteorite with his mind. Hopefuilly, that clears it up.-
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Reflektor Goon
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I don't think that there's a case that a sober person could produce that calls randomidget's ISO anything other than "absolutely horrible". If we end the day on randmidget, then, regardless of flip, we have a good lynch on our hands. Do you really think that a scum player would have to float a trial balloon out on that lynch?In post 433, Persivul wrote:What a crap push. Let's wagon random. No, vig him. No, who wants to vote him? But is it weird I want to vig him? He's just useless. No wait, he might be scummy useless. So if you noticed I floated a trial balloon, note that I wasn't really expecting support. USE CAPS TO BLAME MY TERRIBLE PUSH ON RANDOM.-
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Reflektor Goon
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Reflektor Goon
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His meaning was obvious. Is there a reason I shouldn't be clarifying things that are obvious?In post 435, Persivul wrote:
This pinged me - why are you answering for Fate?In post 389, Reflektor wrote:He's not talking about alignment, he's talking about competence.-
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Reflektor Goon
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what does this mean?In post 436, Realeo wrote:some player seems so chilly with Tammy-
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Reflektor Goon
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i'm catching up; you can take your hives and...In post 509, Medea the Alien wrote:Nacho you are doing the not weighing in on things thing, stahp it. You're not committing to a read on us and it's giving me ffery-hives.
get honey from them?
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