Mini 1868 - Sakura Wars: So Long, My Love Mafia [GAME OVER]


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Post Post #150 (ISO) » Sun Jan 08, 2017 9:47 am

Post by Fate »

The low effort gold posting will commence for Tammys sake
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Post Post #151 (ISO) » Sun Jan 08, 2017 10:30 am

Post by Persivul »

In post 148, Tammy wrote: I've definitely said more words about my read than 52. Did you just stop reading at that point?
Let's be reasonable. When you say "my point on" someone, it's not reasonable to expect me to ISO you, identify everything you've said about the person, and address all of it. I went to the post in which you voted them. If you meant something else, say so, but don't act like it's fault.
I can't tell if this is a case of you completely misunderstanding, me being unclear, or you willfully mischaracterizing my point and then making a weird accusation based on the mischaracterization. Right now, I kinda want to lean towards door number three because I can't for the life of me understand where you got that idea or that it could possibly even come close to omgussy.
IIRC you talked about some strategies...Madea said those were bad ideas...you voted them. IMO that at least comes close to omgussy. Note that omgussy is an observation, not a charge, as you see omgussy town all the time.
I mean it's definitely based on a reaction and his posts in the game; it's not just made up feelings or a tone read. Do you disagree with what BB and Empking see?
What do they see? BB voted LUV in 73. LUV had made 5 posts at that point, no more than 2 sentences each. Tell me what this substantive case is they have on her, because I'm not seeing it.
What do you think about LUV in general?
Null. There's not much to go on.
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Post Post #152 (ISO) » Sun Jan 08, 2017 11:35 am

Post by BBmolla »

Those five posts were all low effort, low content, safe posts.
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Post Post #153 (ISO) » Sun Jan 08, 2017 11:46 am

Post by Lil Uzi Vert »

The first two points are NAI and the latter is subjective. What felt safe about my first five posts? My lack of an RVS vote? My suggestion?
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Post Post #154 (ISO) » Sun Jan 08, 2017 12:24 pm

Post by Indigo »

I do feel, having ISO'd LUV, that his posts might have not been the best posts but there has been nothing scummy about him.

UNVOTE:
For all people are susceptible to
Subliminal Propaganda. Reform
your mind to accept the
Truth
, accept the
Hype
and dont drink of the juice. The
Illuminati
is a figment of your shattered mind but you are real.

Dead people receive more flowers than the living ones because regret is stronger than gratitude. ~ Anne Frank
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Post Post #155 (ISO) » Sun Jan 08, 2017 1:01 pm

Post by BBmolla »

In post 153, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:The first two points are NAI and the latter is subjective. What felt safe about my first five posts? My lack of an RVS vote? My suggestion?
your robot posting
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Post Post #156 (ISO) » Sun Jan 08, 2017 1:07 pm

Post by Lil Uzi Vert »

In post 155, BBmolla wrote:
In post 153, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:The first two points are NAI and the latter is subjective. What felt safe about my first five posts? My lack of an RVS vote? My suggestion?
your robot posting
I get that a lot. Not sure why or what to tell you.
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Post Post #157 (ISO) » Sun Jan 08, 2017 1:33 pm

Post by BBmolla »

okay

what are your reads
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Post Post #158 (ISO) » Sun Jan 08, 2017 1:33 pm

Post by Lil Uzi Vert »

Leaning town on AJ and Tammy.
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Post Post #159 (ISO) » Sun Jan 08, 2017 2:42 pm

Post by Reflektor »

In post 23, Tammy wrote:That means nacho's chances of being scum just went up even more :(

So, this is basically an evil mod game, right? Like hey, games aren't hard enough. Scum don't win enough games around here, let's add an extra member. Oh and as if that's not enough, let's make one of them a godfather too. And limit the cop. Yep that sounds just right.
I'm sorry that I didn't warn you about the nature of the game when I signed up; the two big appeals of this game for me were either that 1) I'd have a large chance of rolling scum with Prism and showcasing my skills with a bigger than usual block and a setup that pretty heavily discouraged bussing or 2) I'd roll town in a game where we could solve and lock down the game early and that's just it. I don't think this game is unbalanced. I do think that it is swingy as all hell which is a good thing in this situation; if we can townread 1-2 players who aren't PRs and if scum whiff a kill or fail to kill a PR N1, then we get to make pretty short work of a 4 man scum team and get them complaining about how harshly the odds were stacked against them.

I'm talking some ideas over with Prism now. I want to spend a little time tomorrow focusing on non-massclaim scenarios (should we lynch? shouldn't we lynch?) because there are lots of things that could happen if we don't massclaim today and the worst case scenario if we do massclaim doesn't look too bad at all.
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Post Post #160 (ISO) » Sun Jan 08, 2017 2:44 pm

Post by Reflektor »

In post 39, Tammy wrote:Would no lynching today be beneficial? We'd go to night with 13 people. The roles could act and we could maybe start day two with more information. Would that help at all or am I being silly?

Also I'm dwelling. Being home alone is no fun.
If we lynch today, we have the chance of hitting a PR or outing a PR (via hitting scum who claims PR). The best case scenario for lynching seems to be hitting a scummy looking VT unless I'm missing something from what thinking I've done so far, which means that it might be something that we don't want to do unless we decide to massclaim and rush the scum today.
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Post Post #161 (ISO) » Sun Jan 08, 2017 2:54 pm

Post by Reflektor »

In post 133, Tammy wrote:
In post 125, Medea the Alien wrote:Not penguin so I'm skipping all the Tammy questions, unless some of them were directed at me. I imagine it does change things that Tammy's posts were made form the point of view of all investigative roles being one-shots. That WOULD be desperate times.
What does it change?

The only thing it changes in my mind is that if we make it to day three we might not be in terrible shape, but that was also before it was pointed out that gunsmith's actually can give false positives. So, yay we have a cop we can't trust and a gunsmith we could use results to mislynch with. Woo.

Whether or not they're one-shot, we can still lose the game on day two.

(And yeah, I had that melt down privately about the day vig was just gonna shut up about the sky is falling bit.)
We can trust the cop pretty reliably; there's a godfather concern, but that can go out of the window by killing/lynching the godfather (and we have a lot of tools to kill him), whereas the gunsmith having the ability to give out guns/get perfectly reliable townreads is still a strong role; I don't think false positives hurt the role much at all if we play it right.
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Post Post #162 (ISO) » Sun Jan 08, 2017 3:02 pm

Post by Reflektor »

In post 48, Medea the Alien wrote:And I know I haven't played in a while, but WTF is with no lynching and mass claiming being bandied about as good ideas this early? Town points for AJ for not buying in.
Have you and Cabd not discussed massclaiming/no lynching as a possibility so far? This is an unconventional setup, and sometimes unconventional setups require a little unconventional playing.
Why does AJ get townpoints for sticking to Mafiascum approved theory?
In post 48, Medea the Alien wrote:Gamma Emerald, why would you want to throw in RQS at this point? Are you dissatisfied with the discourse in progress? What was your thought process that mass claiming would be useful?
In post 56, Medea the Alien wrote:Okay, so on the playing side of that, you said you have high expectations of this player list. How's that working out from your perspective so far?
Both of these questions seem a little weak to me, but as I'm writing this I realize how long it's been since you've actually played a game so am probably being overly harsh on your entrance. Hi Penguin! It's good to see you again!
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Post Post #163 (ISO) » Sun Jan 08, 2017 3:49 pm

Post by Tammy »

In post 150, Fate wrote:The low effort gold posting will commence for Tammys sake

Yay!
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Post Post #164 (ISO) » Sun Jan 08, 2017 3:50 pm

Post by Reflektor »

In post 24, Aj The Epic wrote:
In post 12, Fate wrote:VOTE: Aj the epic

Scum used to be hard to find
*insert snarky response about you just being bad*

There's really no point in worrying about D2 already. If Vig shoots tonight and misses, then we'll have to mass claim tomorrow. That's about all there is to it.
This is a pretty lame approach, actually; I always thought you were the type that didn't mind a bit of setup speculation but maybe I'm just assuming that because Rubix Cube avatar and puzzles?
In post 32, Gamma Emerald wrote:Also hi nacho, prism, and tammy
Hi Gamma!
In post 55, Tammy wrote:What sucks is if there was a way to use this setup to our advantage in any way, that's one of the hydras I expected to use it or discuss it. I expected that if they were town they'd engage me on it - either to tell me to settle the fuck down there's nothing I can do or to have an idea if there's something to do. (The other is the nacho hydra, but I don't expect him to post in this game before tomorrow at the earliest so I'll wait with bated breath there.)
Penguin's post makes it look like they didn't talk about the setup period (I don't think that she'd dismiss no lynches and massclaiming if they'd discussed the setup as scum), which means that outright dismissing no lynches and massclaiming without thinking about things or asking Cabd about it all does seem kind of strange. I think her opening posts seem kind of stilted but I am also trying to be mindful of this being her first game back in a while and give her a little space to shake that rust off but that still stands out to me.
In post 72, Tammy wrote:I also thought about that. We could maybe put a pool of two to three for the two to investigate out of so that we can avoid the investigating oneself thing. The only drawback to directing in a sense is that scum are involved in the direction process and we might have investigatives who just have a good sense of who to investigate?
I understand arguments for directing a possible vig shot; don't really understand why we'd direct investigatives.
In post 75, Tammy wrote:The only thing I didn't like about LUV was when he asked me why I seemed so concerned about four scum. Both because the answer speaks for itself
This also stood out to me, especially since you were talking about the possibility that the game ends on Night 2 (I don't agree with the seem thing), but it's also the type of thing that I'm not sure scum would be quick to post if they were thinking about it; I think they'd be excited about having a big scum team and being able to end the game early and wouldn't be asking townies why they're afraid of losing.
In post 100, Gamma Emerald wrote:Yeah you're shit at reading me
I don't really agree with the RQS thing but you do seem a bit quieter than usual; is there any particular reason for it?
In post 115, Persivul wrote:In my experience, scum, who know the alignments, are less likely to have thoroughly read the setup than town. Further, while setup spec can be beneficial, it can also be used as a way to appear busy without really scum hunting.
Your original argument was that people "should" read the setup before signing up and because Tammy didn't do something she should do, she was lying and thus more likely scum (presumably); this argument looks more like "scum read setups less than town". I don't really think either of these things are alignment indicative; and, if it helps you at all coming from someone with experience with Tammy, her not reading setups thoroughly before she begins playing is something she does fairly frequently.
In post 130, BBmolla wrote:a whole page dedicated to investigating someone who is probably town anyway is wholly a waste of time, you can disagree with me if you want but you're just plain wrong
Agreed!
What do you think of what Persivul brought up wrt Tammy?
In post 131, BBmolla wrote:if that's nacho you're double wrong :|
"my reason for scumreading Tammy was wrong"
shame.
In post 141, Empking wrote:
In post 139, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:What makes my reaction bad and why is it AI?
It is AI because it seems like something scum would do for calculated town brownie-points. It's bad for the same reason.
What is the town motivation for posting it that LUV's going for?
In post 151, Persivul wrote:IIRC you talked about some strategies...Madea said those were bad ideas...you voted them. IMO that at least comes close to omgussy. Note that omgussy is an observation, not a charge, as you see omgussy town all the time.
It's a bit more nuanced than that; the reason why Tammy was pushing Penguin is because she wasn't engaging Tammy about those "bad ideas" in particular. I'd expect (and have a wild guess that Tammy probably expects the same thing) that Penguin as town would try to sort out Tammy early since they've played together plenty of times and are friends and all of that good stuff, and I'd also expect that Penguin as town wouldn't expect Tammy to propose horrible plans for breaking the setup, so it'd make sense to question her since it'd be killing two birds with one stone (sort out Tammy, correct bad play/catch something she thought about before). My bigger problem with her post is that she dismissing No Lynching as massclaiming as dumb strategies before it looks like she's thought much about it but Cabd's post implies differently, so maybe he just had some misplaced confidence in dismissing those moves immediately.
In post 153, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:The first two points are NAI and the latter is subjective. What felt safe about my first five posts? My lack of an RVS vote? My suggestion?
Maybe the lack of anything alignment indicative? Every comment that you've made so far is a throwaway comment about setup or a neutral observation or a question; if we are going to win this game, we need to lead early, and that means that townies are going to have to start sticking their necks out as far as possible as early as possible. Why are you townreading AJ? Do you have any scumreads/small niggles that have bothered you/things that look kind of weird?
In post 154, Indigo wrote:I do feel, having ISO'd LUV, that his posts might have not been the best posts but there has been nothing scummy about him.

UNVOTE:
Why did you decide to ISO LUV? Were you just trying to see what all of the hype was about? What do you think of people who have been pushing LUV now that you've decided there's nothing to see?

Vote: Lil Uzi Vert
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Post Post #165 (ISO) » Sun Jan 08, 2017 3:56 pm

Post by Tammy »

In post 151, Persivul wrote:
In post 148, Tammy wrote: I've definitely said more words about my read than 52. Did you just stop reading at that point?
Let's be reasonable. When you say "my point on" someone, it's not reasonable to expect me to ISO you, identify everything you've said about the person, and address all of it. I went to the post in which you voted them. If you meant something else, say so, but don't act like it's fault.
I meant exactly what I said. Even if all you read was the post I voted in them, I still don't see how you got that. The last two sentences should have clued you into the fact that your interpretation isn't even close to correct. It was born of a lack of interaction, not whatever interpretation you came up with.

And yes, I do think that in a game of mafia, when there are only five pages, that it's reasonable to expect you to read and even iso to respond. Why I asked you in the first place was because the manner in which you went, and didn't, go through the thread pinged me. You seemed like you were reading the thread. You were interacting and responding to posts as if you were trucking along, but all you really did was respond to setup spec stuff. The only sort of scum hunting response you had was responding to Gamma's RQS post. (What is it with people caring that he did rqs even after someone said not to anyway?) But you stopped commenting on anything going on in the game thread after that except to discuss with me about people being aware of the setup.

I find it odd that you literally stopped responding once actual game relevant stuff started happening. Since you were shooting down setup suggestions, I expected to see you responding to actual scum hunting that was going on, but you merrily ignored it.
Persivul wrote:
I can't tell if this is a case of you completely misunderstanding, me being unclear, or you willfully mischaracterizing my point and then making a weird accusation based on the mischaracterization. Right now, I kinda want to lean towards door number three because I can't for the life of me understand where you got that idea or that it could possibly even come close to omgussy.
IIRC you talked about some strategies...Madea said those were bad ideas...you voted them. IMO that at least comes close to omgussy. Note that omgussy is an observation, not a charge, as you see omgussy town all the time.
Did you actually read my problem with them? Go ahead and read that page to see me explain my read two whole posts later after I voted them.
Persivul wrote:
I mean it's definitely based on a reaction and his posts in the game; it's not just made up feelings or a tone read. Do you disagree with what BB and Empking see?
What do they see? BB voted LUV in 73. LUV had made 5 posts at that point, no more than 2 sentences each. Tell me what this substantive case is they have on her, because I'm not seeing it.[/quote]

Do you or don't you agree with their reasoning?
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Post Post #166 (ISO) » Sun Jan 08, 2017 3:59 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

In post 164, Reflektor wrote:This is a pretty lame approach, actually; I always thought you were the type that didn't mind a bit of setup speculation but maybe I'm just assuming that because Rubix Cube avatar and puzzles?
I actually hate setup spec but that's because as scum I love making fake claims. Ergo I don't do a lot of it on either side. In this game in particular I don't see much benefit to coordinating actions until the scum RB is gone.
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Post Post #167 (ISO) » Sun Jan 08, 2017 4:04 pm

Post by Reflektor »

Oh, and one more thing before I disappear into the night -

KBW, does this game follow Natural Action Resolution? As in, if a gunsmith gifts a gun to someone on the same night they are killed, does the gift go through or no?
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Post Post #168 (ISO) » Sun Jan 08, 2017 4:09 pm

Post by Gamma Emerald »

In post 129, Reflektor wrote:My reason for scumreading Tammy was wrong.

VOTE: BBMolla

Don't like BBmolla's defense of Tammy in #128. Next vote would probably be Medea or someone with only one post. I haven't slept in nearly 48 hours so I'll tackle page 5 in the morning.
Why medea or a person with one post?
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Post Post #169 (ISO) » Sun Jan 08, 2017 4:09 pm

Post by Tammy »

Hi Nacho!

I've read all your posts, but I probably won't respond to much until tomorrow. Brain is heading off into lalaville.

Your point on LUV about being around and posting just neutral things is one of the things I was referring to with my I've got a couple of I got my eye on you reads that I wanted to watch. Your response to LUV's original reaction to my concern about the setup looked like you were leaning on it being a townie reaction. Did I misunderstand that or did you change your mind based on the lack of posting and substance.

Not only does Cabd's post imply that they did in fact read the setup and think about it. Well imply is a bad word, he said they discussed it in the shower, so. But Penguin's second post implies that as well. She said this:

"Given that this was advertised as the open setup it is, I find it weird that anyone wouldn't have done some cursory thinking about the perils of the town:scum ratio, so why go weird about it now that the game has started?"

So yeah.

Also I was kinda expecting Cabd to tell me to get my head out of my ass if they were town and I was jumping on something I shouldn't. But I could be wrong about that I guess.
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Post Post #170 (ISO) » Sun Jan 08, 2017 4:13 pm

Post by Tammy »

Yes, I read the entire quote stripe!

Go me.
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Post Post #171 (ISO) » Sun Jan 08, 2017 4:15 pm

Post by Lil Uzi Vert »

In post 164, Reflektor wrote:
In post 24, Aj The Epic wrote:
In post 12, Fate wrote:VOTE: Aj the epic

Scum used to be hard to find
*insert snarky response about you just being bad*

There's really no point in worrying about D2 already. If Vig shoots tonight and misses, then we'll have to mass claim tomorrow. That's about all there is to it.
This is a pretty lame approach, actually; I always thought you were the type that didn't mind a bit of setup speculation but maybe I'm just assuming that because Rubix Cube avatar and puzzles?
In post 32, Gamma Emerald wrote:Also hi nacho, prism, and tammy
Hi Gamma!
In post 55, Tammy wrote:What sucks is if there was a way to use this setup to our advantage in any way, that's one of the hydras I expected to use it or discuss it. I expected that if they were town they'd engage me on it - either to tell me to settle the fuck down there's nothing I can do or to have an idea if there's something to do. (The other is the nacho hydra, but I don't expect him to post in this game before tomorrow at the earliest so I'll wait with bated breath there.)
Penguin's post makes it look like they didn't talk about the setup period (I don't think that she'd dismiss no lynches and massclaiming if they'd discussed the setup as scum), which means that outright dismissing no lynches and massclaiming without thinking about things or asking Cabd about it all does seem kind of strange. I think her opening posts seem kind of stilted but I am also trying to be mindful of this being her first game back in a while and give her a little space to shake that rust off but that still stands out to me.
In post 72, Tammy wrote:I also thought about that. We could maybe put a pool of two to three for the two to investigate out of so that we can avoid the investigating oneself thing. The only drawback to directing in a sense is that scum are involved in the direction process and we might have investigatives who just have a good sense of who to investigate?
I understand arguments for directing a possible vig shot; don't really understand why we'd direct investigatives.
In post 75, Tammy wrote:The only thing I didn't like about LUV was when he asked me why I seemed so concerned about four scum. Both because the answer speaks for itself
This also stood out to me, especially since you were talking about the possibility that the game ends on Night 2 (I don't agree with the seem thing), but it's also the type of thing that I'm not sure scum would be quick to post if they were thinking about it; I think they'd be excited about having a big scum team and being able to end the game early and wouldn't be asking townies why they're afraid of losing.
In post 100, Gamma Emerald wrote:Yeah you're shit at reading me
I don't really agree with the RQS thing but you do seem a bit quieter than usual; is there any particular reason for it?
In post 115, Persivul wrote:In my experience, scum, who know the alignments, are less likely to have thoroughly read the setup than town. Further, while setup spec can be beneficial, it can also be used as a way to appear busy without really scum hunting.
Your original argument was that people "should" read the setup before signing up and because Tammy didn't do something she should do, she was lying and thus more likely scum (presumably); this argument looks more like "scum read setups less than town". I don't really think either of these things are alignment indicative; and, if it helps you at all coming from someone with experience with Tammy, her not reading setups thoroughly before she begins playing is something she does fairly frequently.
In post 130, BBmolla wrote:a whole page dedicated to investigating someone who is probably town anyway is wholly a waste of time, you can disagree with me if you want but you're just plain wrong
Agreed!
What do you think of what Persivul brought up wrt Tammy?
In post 131, BBmolla wrote:if that's nacho you're double wrong :|
"my reason for scumreading Tammy was wrong"
shame.
In post 141, Empking wrote:
In post 139, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:What makes my reaction bad and why is it AI?
It is AI because it seems like something scum would do for calculated town brownie-points. It's bad for the same reason.
What is the town motivation for posting it that LUV's going for?
In post 151, Persivul wrote:IIRC you talked about some strategies...Madea said those were bad ideas...you voted them. IMO that at least comes close to omgussy. Note that omgussy is an observation, not a charge, as you see omgussy town all the time.
It's a bit more nuanced than that; the reason why Tammy was pushing Penguin is because she wasn't engaging Tammy about those "bad ideas" in particular. I'd expect (and have a wild guess that Tammy probably expects the same thing) that Penguin as town would try to sort out Tammy early since they've played together plenty of times and are friends and all of that good stuff, and I'd also expect that Penguin as town wouldn't expect Tammy to propose horrible plans for breaking the setup, so it'd make sense to question her since it'd be killing two birds with one stone (sort out Tammy, correct bad play/catch something she thought about before). My bigger problem with her post is that she dismissing No Lynching as massclaiming as dumb strategies before it looks like she's thought much about it but Cabd's post implies differently, so maybe he just had some misplaced confidence in dismissing those moves immediately.
In post 153, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:The first two points are NAI and the latter is subjective. What felt safe about my first five posts? My lack of an RVS vote? My suggestion?
Maybe the lack of anything alignment indicative? Every comment that you've made so far is a throwaway comment about setup or a neutral observation or a question; if we are going to win this game, we need to lead early, and that means that townies are going to have to start sticking their necks out as far as possible as early as possible. Why are you townreading AJ? Do you have any scumreads/small niggles that have bothered you/things that look kind of weird?
In post 154, Indigo wrote:I do feel, having ISO'd LUV, that his posts might have not been the best posts but there has been nothing scummy about him.

UNVOTE:
Why did you decide to ISO LUV? Were you just trying to see what all of the hype was about? What do you think of people who have been pushing LUV now that you've decided there's nothing to see?

Vote: Lil Uzi Vert
I understand, the thing is I'm not going to force things. It's not how I like to play. I find that a lot of people on this site don't understand that a lot of stuff is just noise or NAI and tend to end up making something out of nothing as a result, rather than letting things progress naturally.

I am leaning town on AJ because a lot of his posts imply the same attitude I'm feeling towards all of the setup speculation and felt super genuine. I don't have any scum reads at this time.
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Post Post #172 (ISO) » Sun Jan 08, 2017 4:16 pm

Post by Gamma Emerald »

In post 134, Tammy wrote:
In post 128, BBmolla wrote:more LUV votes? why are we interrogating Tammy who's probably town
In post 129, Reflektor wrote:My reason for scumreading Tammy was wrong.

VOTE: BBMolla

Don't like BBmolla's defense of Tammy in #128. Next vote would probably be Medea or someone with only one post. I haven't slept in nearly 48 hours so I'll tackle page 5 in the morning.
What didn't you like about BB's defense?
Looking at this there's not much to it, looks like Reflektor is making something out of nothing.
VOTE: Reflektor
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Post Post #173 (ISO) » Sun Jan 08, 2017 4:16 pm

Post by Reflektor »

In post 169, Tammy wrote:Your response to LUV's original reaction to my concern about the setup looked like you were leaning on it being a townie reaction. Did I misunderstand that or did you change your mind based on the lack of posting and substance.
I don't think it means anything in particular; I don't understand why town would say it, hence my initial reaction, but after thinking about it a little bit I don't really understand why scum would say it either.
In post 169, Tammy wrote:Penguin's second post implies that as well. She said this:

"Given that this was advertised as the open setup it is, I find it weird that anyone wouldn't have done some cursory thinking about the perils of the town:scum ratio, so why go weird about it now that the game has started?"
I thought that implied more that she thought about the setup a little bit, not that they talked about it together. If they didn't talk about it at that point, I find Penguin dismissing no lynch/massclaim ideas immediately to be pretty weird. If they did, then I can see Cabd being (mistakenly) confident about them both being bad moves and I can see Penguin as town trusting him on that. Does that make sense?
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Post Post #174 (ISO) » Sun Jan 08, 2017 4:18 pm

Post by Reflektor »

In post 171, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:I understand, the thing is I'm not going to force things. It's not how I like to play. I find that a lot of people on this site don't understand that a lot of stuff is just noise or NAI and tend to end up making something out of nothing as a result, rather than letting things progress naturally.

I am leaning town on AJ because a lot of his posts imply the same attitude I'm feeling towards all of the setup speculation and 99 felt super genuine. I don't have any scum reads at this time.
I understand that approach. I don't think that making something out of nothing is the worst thing in the world as long as you can pull back and see you're making something out of nothing; it's a hell of a lot easier to read a room full of misguided people than it is to read a room where everyone's shuffling their feet and looking at the floor and waiting for someone to do something that really, really stands out.
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