Mini Normal 1862 - Town win.
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krylea Goon
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krylea Goon
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krylea Goon
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Skimmed the thread once and trying to reread more in depth now, but my eyes are kinda glazing over. I'm up to like, page 12 ish? I don't understand the Ircher or Gamma wagons at all, they make zero sense to me. Too many walls of text with too much bickering and too little actual information. I very much do like the Asphodel wagon and am entirely on board. Will probably vote there unless something else catches my eye.
Flubber's post 229 seems opportunistic as fuck and I dislike it immensely.
Grey seems v scummy to me too - lots of bickering, controlling the tone of the town but not actually giving very much information or analysis. Very combative, but not in a way that actually leads to information for town. This might just be a playstyle thing though? I'd have to read his meta and I don't want to do that right now.
Ircher and Gamma are null. Too much shit surrounding them and I can't parse what's what.
I like HS, I like AA and I like Alisae. The latter two mostly because of the Asphodel wagon.
I can't fucking stand TF, but I don't think it's alignment indicative. I think he's just an asshole.
I remember there being a thing about Naomi maybe scumslipping. I'll look at that when I catch up to that point. It seemed pretty iffy from what I recall.-
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krylea
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krylea Goon
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I agree wholeheartedly with this. That post was incredibly scummy. I'm still scumreading asphodel too though.In post 697, Asphodel wrote:
Probably should have been clearer about this. "I don't like how little thought he puts into trying to reach out to people, it sticks out like a sore thumb" is pretty weak reasoning, particularly compared to any number of reasons you could have voted for someone like Ircher. I'm saying that I think you were trying to opportunistically hop on my wagon and came up with further weak reasoning so you could pretend that this was an original thought. I'm also saying I think you look pretty scummy for having done this.In post 289, Flubbernugget wrote:
You're conflating thought with the number of posts in threadIn post 242, Asphodel wrote:In post 229, Flubbernugget wrote:VOTE: asohodel
I don't like how little thought he puts into trying to reach out to people. It sticks out like a sore thumb. Also somone pointed out some good contradictions in 195.
I feel like these should be reversed.
My scum read becomes greater
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krylea Goon
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I keep trying to finish catching up, but it really doesn't feel like there's 28 pages of substance here. Way too many bad wagons, personal attacks, and OMGUSing.
The ascetic thing was interesting, but unless someone claims I don't see much more we can say.
I don't like how the Asphodel wagon (which was excellent) died, especially because the wagons that came after it sucked. Can we bring it back please?
VOTE: Asphodel
@mod can we get a VC?-
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krylea Goon
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This is quite a good point actually. The Naomi "scumslip" was pretty fucking iffy. I still like the Asphodel wagon, but I could definitely be persuaded to look at Grey today.In post 727, Alisae wrote:I think I need to explain how Grey fucked up.
He called Naomi's thing a "Slip." but was that a slip? No, it wasn't.
Scum like to push slips. They like to have a justified vote.
So thats why my tell on Grey works.-
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krylea Goon
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@mod, is the fact that the 2 votes on grey and gamma are being counted as 1 vote intentional, or a mistake?
ThanksLast edited by XnadrojX on Wed Dec 21, 2016 4:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.-
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krylea Goon
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I don't like this. There are tons of other roles that could lead to no-results. This could just give scum easy mislynches. This + your "scumslip" thing earlier really make it seem like you are out for excuses to push lynches.In post 748, -Grey- wrote:Since Gamma claimed Ascetic Enabler, any "no results" results should be insta-lynched because the ascetic(s) is/are scum hiding behind the role.
I'm happy returning to my previous vote.
VOTE: Naomi
At this point I think I am convinced enough to drop the Asphodel thing for the moment - though I'd like to revisit it later.
VOTE: Grey-
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krylea Goon
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He has some stupid voting quirk when he unvotes before he goes to sleep iirc. It's the dumbest thing I've ever heard of and incredibly anti-town. I'd vote him for it, except that it's probably not even alignment indicative, just stupid.In post 784, -Grey- wrote:Gin is worried that I might obvtown while he's asleep and make his vote on me look bad, lol.-
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krylea Goon
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I am.
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krylea Goon
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Because while I think it's stupid, I don't think it's alignment indicative.In post 791, -Grey- wrote:
Why do you feel the need to be his apologist?In post 789, krylea wrote:
He has some stupid voting quirk when he unvotes before he goes to sleep iirc. It's the dumbest thing I've ever heard of and incredibly anti-town. I'd vote him for it, except that it's probably not even alignment indicative, just stupid.In post 784, -Grey- wrote:Gin is worried that I might obvtown while he's asleep and make his vote on me look bad, lol.-
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krylea Goon
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Orrrrrr, instead of lynching town, we could lynch scum instead, how bout that?In post 817, Gamma Emerald wrote:I don't believe the claim for a second. Even then, optimal play IMO is to lynch me, and let the town PRs do their work tonight.
I am not happy with the situation vis a vis grey and am not sure I buy the claim, but I'll UNVOTE: for now.
Probably going to go back to Asphodel wagon, but it's getting a bit too much traction too fast this time and I want to look at who is hopping back on it.-
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krylea Goon
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krylea Goon
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Yeah no, fuck this shit.In post 882, Ircher wrote:No, they need to claim.-
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krylea Goon
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You are making zero sense. Gamma is definitely not scum, and whatever you are trying to do is hurting town, not helping it.In post 891, Ircher wrote:Though, I see it more likely that Gamma is scum with a red herring role.
So, VOTE: Gamma
Pedit: Depends.-
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krylea Goon
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I was already starting to reconsider the Asphodel wagon after there continued to be no resistance to it at all, and now I'm sold.In post 916, Ircher wrote:Still think its a red herring and therefore a scum role.
Pedit: No more claims. Scum fakeclaim all day long. In the small chance we lynch a PR, well, so be it.
VOTE: Ircher
This post is terrible.-
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krylea Goon
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krylea Goon
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Just making a readslist isn't a scumtell. But focusing only on setup spec and readslists without actual analysis and scumhunting is scummy, because it lets you look like you are being active and engaged without actually having to scumhunt. That is exactly what scum wants to do.In post 967, Ircher wrote:
How is 964 a good post?In post 965, krylea wrote:963 and 964 are very good posts. I agree with Alisae and 2F, this all looks like excuses to make posts that appear to have content without actually scumhunting. I don't know what your definition of IIoA is Grey, but that pretty much fits mine.
Readslist is a playstyle thing. Not a scumtell.-
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krylea Goon
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krylea Goon
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krylea Goon
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It means 'is not equal to'. It's a computer programming thing.In post 995, TwoFace wrote:Ircher. What does != mean to you? I've never seen anyone use that particular combination before.-
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krylea Goon
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same tbh
HAH. Are you joking? Read the last couple of pages again. Almost every post in the last few pages of Ircher's has REEKED of scum. The fake-townie posting/IIoA that we have discussed, the carefully avoiding actually answering any questions, the poorly justified sheeping of the Aspho wagon, the defensive voting onto 2F and the whole "confbias or scum" thing. There's so friggin much to choose from.In post 1002, All Alone wrote:I honestly don't get a sense of disingenuity from Ircher's ISO
Asphodel is still a much better lynch-
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krylea Goon
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I mean, kinda, yeah I'm pretty null on AA right now, don't have much to go on. And right now I'm way more interested in Ircher.In post 1006, Alisae wrote:Krylea, am I the only person who is All Alone in that they think that All Alone is scum?-
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krylea Goon
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Same, but it's only Ircher or Grey for me (and Grey only if RD has something reeeally good to go on).In post 1011, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:I'm really only interested in {Ircher, Asphodel or Grey(if Rainbow is convincing)} lynch today.
Ircher because I see a lot of scum motives in his actions and I'm getting the feel that his reads lists are now for town cred.
Asphodel due to what I believe is him trying to communicate with his scum mates in the beginning of the game but honestly haven't delved deep into him.
Grey if his claim is proven wrong.-
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krylea Goon
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Gamma I think we've pretty much established he's scum at this point.In post 1014, Gamma Emerald wrote:In post 990, Gamma Emerald wrote:In post 973, Gamma Emerald wrote:
@IrcherIn post 962, Gamma Emerald wrote:Also, explain my play if I'm scum, regardless of red herrings.-
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krylea Goon
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krylea Goon
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What on earth is wrong with putting someone who is acting scummy as fuck at L-1?In post 1018, Ircher wrote:I dare you to run me up to L-1. Though, I'm pretty sure I'm already L-2 anyway so.....-
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krylea Goon
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krylea Goon
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Oh LyLo/MyLo is different obviously.
People talk all the time about quickhammers/derphammers, but they really don't seem that common. The only times I've seen them in all the games I've read through on this site have been scum faking an accidental hammer. Like, unless you know there's a VI in the game, I would assume that noone is going to be THAT stupid.
Maybe its just because I'm relatively new though, I guess maybe they could happen more often than I realize.-
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krylea Goon
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I mean, I respect that you put that much work into that reads list. That is good analysis and answers some of my complaints earlier about lack of meaningful content. But like...Gamma? Is not scum. And Grey should not be ANYWHERE close to as high up on that list as he is. Like, those are two facts that should be incredibly obvious just from reading the thread. And I still think you're scum.
Also, answer Gamma's fucking question.-
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krylea Goon
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Yeah, see that was my first thought too.In post 1033, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:
Literally going through that list, I feel like if you reversed the colors it would make a lot more sense.-
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krylea Goon
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krylea Goon
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Err...you were scumreading Ircher hard last time you posted. What changed? Because the only thing I see that changed is a newer wagon that popped up.In post 1051, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:I almost want to say Ircher supersaturates my scumdar to the point where he does a full circle around the meter and is back to being townie.-
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krylea Goon
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krylea Goon
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I'm not addressing your post because it's dumb. I'm not going to get sidetracked into defending every post I've ever made against you flailing trying not to get lynched.In post 1056, -Grey- wrote:
Threat instead of actually addressing my post.In post 1055, krylea wrote:Yeah. Ircher is still scum, and we're still lynching him. But this shit with Grey comes first.-
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krylea Goon
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Why is Ircher town? I see absolutely no reason to think Ircher is town whatsoever.In post 1063, Human Sequencer wrote:Ircher is town. Don't run up Ircher. Don't wagon Ircher. Ircher is town.
I'm also willing to believe that Gamma and Grey are town, if the answer to this is yes:
Grey, are you an ascetic cop? I have reason to believe you have motivation for not mentioning it earlier.
Edit: I realize RainbowDash may be on the same trail with 1004
Edit2: ok maybe not
Grey, my question stands.
I'm glad Alisae swapped her avatar back.
Gin is town on reread and for post 976. I doubt scumGin would care enough to pay attention to anybody's posting patterns, where as a good little townie is very interested in when and where he gets information from.-
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krylea Goon
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Buddy, like half your case on me is from the first post I made off brief impressions when I was halfway through the thread. This is pure bluster.In post 1062, -Grey- wrote:
No, you can't defend yourself because I'm fucking right and you know it.In post 1058, krylea wrote:
I'm not addressing your post because it's dumb. I'm not going to get sidetracked into defending every post I've ever made against you flailing trying not to get lynched.In post 1056, -Grey- wrote:
Threat instead of actually addressing my post.In post 1055, krylea wrote:Yeah. Ircher is still scum, and we're still lynching him. But this shit with Grey comes first.
I'm not getting lynched today, Brony boy can take his bullshit and eat it in the corner.
I believe RD's claim waaaay more than I believe yours. The only reason I ever wanted to leave you alive is because we could test your claim later. Now we don't even need to do that.In post 1075, -Grey- wrote:
I don't for a second believe the Miller claim and Brony needs to die by MyLo -1.In post 1064, Gamma Emerald wrote:Like, I personally have an issue since we have BOTH Ascetics and Millers.
Also, RD should not have claimed FOR THE EXACT SAME REASONS Ascetics should not.
VOTE: Grey
We're coming back to Ircher later though, you bet your ass on that. And HS, I still want to hear from you why you think Ircher is town.-
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krylea Goon
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Hm. This is interesting. Alright, I'll tentatively bite, and back off of Ircher for today and today only, since Grey is more important now anyways.In post 1081, Human Sequencer wrote:Krylea, stop asking. You're not getting an answer today.
Krylea is a good lynch tbh.
I side with Grey.
This confirms to me that one of them are scum, and if Dash flips miller, we can just lynch Grey tomorrow. It's far riskier to lose a miller than a cop.His claim is a generic cop's counterpart, which I am not.
VOTE: RainbowDash
Vis a vis Dash vs Grey though, not a chance. Grey has looked scummy since the beginning and even scummier since pressure was put on him. Dash, by contrast, would have very little scum motivation to do what she is doing. And making scum waste a night kill on a miller instead of a PR is fucking great for us. I'm not okay with just giving that sort of advantage away.-
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krylea Goon
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No it isn't. Grey clearly implied that the missing piece of his role had some natural connection with another player - he specifically mentioned a counterpart. X-shot does not have a natural connection with another player, unless he isIn post 1086, Human Sequencer wrote:Grey didn't switch anything up. Grey posted that he -was- leaving something out. His story is consistent start to finish.still leaving things out.-
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krylea Goon
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In post 1099, -Grey- wrote:
X-shot = crippled investigative = suggestive of second investigative roleIn post 1096, krylea wrote:
No it isn't. Grey clearly implied that the missing piece of his role had some natural connection with another player - he specifically mentioned a counterpart. X-shot does not have a natural connection with another player, unless he isIn post 1086, Human Sequencer wrote:Grey didn't switch anything up. Grey posted that he -was- leaving something out. His story is consistent start to finish.still leaving things out.
You can die d2.
Thats fair. I didn't think of that angle.In post 1101, Gamma Emerald wrote:
I actually had this thought. I played a game with cop + deputy once.In post 1099, -Grey- wrote:
X-shot = crippled investigative = suggestive of second investigative roleIn post 1096, krylea wrote:
No it isn't. Grey clearly implied that the missing piece of his role had some natural connection with another player - he specifically mentioned a counterpart. X-shot does not have a natural connection with another player, unless he isIn post 1086, Human Sequencer wrote:Grey didn't switch anything up. Grey posted that he -was- leaving something out. His story is consistent start to finish.still leaving things out.
You can die d2.-
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krylea Goon
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Err...why are we assuming ascetic is scum? Or that there is only one, like Gamma pointed out earlier?In post 1113, Human Sequencer wrote:
You are incorrect. An outted cop will not survive long and conf-townies are not as helpful in the situation dash was trying to manufacture.In post 1100, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:
I've dealt with two outed cops, no matter what we decided strongmaning the cop is the way to go and be done with it. The longer you're alive, the more conf!townies we get. It's not a valid reason if the scum have even 1 iota of intelligence.In post 1087, -Grey- wrote:
Miller is a pretty safe fakeclaim for Scum if you think about the mechanics and it away a guilty hit if I target him.In post 1083, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:Why, as scum, would she find it necessary to come up with a fake claim to mislynch you when you can be killed at night?
Leaving me alive would quickly cause town to paranoia lynch me because what scum team would leave a cop alive?
That's why I think our scumteam has the ascetic.
Between the ascetic and Brony claiming Miller, they have nothing to fear if I'm townreading the vulnerable scum, if there is any.
Okay so let me ask you this, why would a scum set up a 1v1 situation where if either X flips red/green Y is the inverse Day(N+1)?
Especially considering its this early in the game, we're not talking about MyLo but D1.
@dash that's not the point. Miller + Scum Ascetic is just not likely. Grey isn't trying to imply that there was necessarily a counterpart to his x-shot cop, more that a second investigative role isn't so unlikely.
If you are miller, grey obviously dies tomorrow.-
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krylea Goon
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In post 1117, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:Fuck this role modifier bullshit.
1. So we have a cop we can invest people
2. Ascetics who can't be invested
3. Millers who can't be accurately invested.
4. An Ascetic enabler, who if they die, ascetics no longer exist.
Is this accurate to what we have in the game?(At least claimed that we do)
Can we at least read the posts we are trying to criticize please?In post 1131, Alisae wrote:
You just went from a hard stance to hypotheticals.In post 1130, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:
I'm not following what you're seeing?In post 1128, Alisae wrote:In post 1117, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:2. Ascetics who can't be invested
I'm just gonna leave these here.In post 1127, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:P-Edit: Alisae, I'm going on the hypothetical that if Gamma is an ascetic Enabler then hypothetically ascetic exists or he is a townie with a name but no game.-
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krylea Goon
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krylea Goon
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krylea Goon
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krylea Goon
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krylea Goon
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krylea Goon
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I said I understood it, not that I agreed with it. I'd go into it further and try to persuade you otherwise, but I have to leave in like 10 minutes so I really don't have time.In post 1241, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:WTF
So let me get this straight.
I make a case as to why they are both town.
You read it and think its valid, ergomwhy you're not pushing me to change back onto those two wagons
HOWEVER
Even after concurring that it being a case that they are both town, you willfully ignore to push a now confirmed mislynch.
You're a scumfuck
VOTE: Krylea-
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krylea Goon
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krylea Goon
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krylea Goon
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krylea Goon
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krylea Goon
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krylea Goon
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krylea
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krylea Goon
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Welp, my day 1 reads were wrong as fuck.
Still tempted to call Grey scum fakeclaiming off my day 1 gut, but at this point I probably have to bite the bullet and admit that I was completely wrong. That was a fucking bizarre gambit from RD.
I get that you guys want to lynch me, and I see why - my day 1 play was awful. But I'm not scum, and I'm not going to let the town waste a mislynch on me due to my own bad play. I was super lazy in this game on day 1 and just went off my own gut and other people's analysis because I really didn't fucking want to go through this many goddamn pages of posts to try to do my own proper analysis. But it seems like that made my day 1 play pretty garbage, so I guess it's time to get serious.
Not sure about how I feel w.r.t the Gin wagon. I was getting town vibes from him day 1 - but that might have just been because he agreed with me, and given how RD flipped that probably isn't looking so good anymore.
Chances that Gamma is scum are literally 0%.
Expect more content-heavy posts from me later today after I've had a chance to go through the events of day 1 again in light of the flips.-
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krylea Goon
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Are you still on this? This is a complete fucking misrep. I didn't agree that it made sense. I agreed that you seemed like you had a genuine reason to not be voting either Grey or RD, so I moved onto others. I never said that your reasoning made sense or that I agreed with it. I said that I understood thatIn post 1493, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:VOTE: Krylea
Reading through the ISO, there was no scum hunting that was done, what I find telling is Krylea voting Grey and then after reading why neither should be lynched or either are town, she agreed it made sense but didn't change her mind.
Also the fact that I was going to push this lynch instead of Krylea and I still think I'm going to be right on this flip.you seemed to genuinely believeRD vs Grey was TvT, not thatI believedit was TvT. Oh, and look, itwasn't.-
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krylea Goon
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..which would be why I then said literally right after that that I was probably wrong?In post 1502, -Grey- wrote:
Yes peaches, I'm Scum that bussed my buddy hardcore on d1 for that sweet, sweet towncred that will last me all the way to d3, when I'll be paranoia-lynched for still being alive as a claimed cop.In post 1492, krylea wrote:Still tempted to call Grey scum fakeclaiming off my day 1 gut
Your skills are too sharp for me.-
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krylea Goon
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..because I'm still rereading the thread? I'm following what's going on at the same time, but I'm still going over d1 rn.In post 1510, Flubbernugget wrote:So I'm not actually going to try and finish my catch up. I don't think I will make it to the actually game with the pace I've been making.
Kryela's monologe about actually putting effort forth followed by not putting effort forth is really bad. She then had time to point out Grey's misrep but none to actually scum hunt. There's a small part of me that thinks she is town that is lost in the speed of the game, but not enough for me to not like the wagon-
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krylea Goon
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The most notable parts of day 1 were obviously the aftermath of Grey's claim and Dash's claim. Knowing now that Dash is scum, let's look at who fell where and when in the Dash vs Grey wagons:
The Grey wagon went on and off a few times. The wagon that got him to claim was motivated a lot by the whole Naomi-scumslip business, and was led by me, Alisae, Gamma and Dash. Alisae and Gamma go after Grey because they don't like his focus on Naomi and think the scumslip thing is cover for scum!Grey to have a justified vote. Dash and I agree and join the wagon. Ircher and Gin pile on. Grey claims.
Some other shit happens that I'll get to later, then RD claims and pushes Grey. I believe RD's claim over Grey's and I vote Grey. HS does the opposite, as does Alisae. AA joins the RD wagon a little later, then Gamma after him, and Ircher after that. Gin waffles, claims it is TvT, tries to push me, then eventually hammers.
In the end, Flubber, TwoFace, Aspho, and Naomi are the only ones not on either Grey or RD at the end of the day.
My conclusions:
I obviously fucked up defending RD and my play looked suspicious as hell. No shit.
Gin commented very little after RD claimed until his post where he declared he thought it was TvT. I can certainly see town!Gin legimitimately thinking it was TvT. I can also see scum!Gin trying to get people off of the Grey/RD fight once scum knew Grey was a cop, to not get RD lynched. As Grey pointed out though, Gin is the obvious mislynch today if he is town. The fact that so few people joined Grey's wagon on him when he is such an attractive mislynch target makes me lean scum on him. But, as Grey said earlier, it could just be paranoia from scum and not wanting to stick their neck out. I find it interesting that Grey doesn't consider the scum!Gin angle to that though.
Upon rereading, I'm a lot more suspicious of AA. He joined the RD wagon after it was clear it was beating the Grey wagon, but never really pushed it after that. He was also lurking hard all day, and pushed the Asphodel wagon a lot.
If AA is town, then I am suspicious of Aspho. He didn't join either Grey or RD's wagon and tried to pursue AA instead. There were also good cases laid out against him day 1 which were at least somewhat compelling. I doubt both AA and Aspho are scum though.
HS is clear unless they were bussing RD damn hard. I suppose that's possible, but I don't see it as likely.
Gamma is still obvtown.
I still have no fucking clue on TF.
There was also the Ircher and Asphodel wagons to consider. The Ircher one was led by me, TF and Gin. TF was tunneling pretty hard on Ircher, but in his defense Ircher seemed scummy as fuck to me too.
Aspho's was interesting. HS, Alisae and AA were the first ones on it, and I liked how the wagon started. Eventually, Flubber joined with a super-opportunistic 229, where he was the 4th person on the wagon after a very poorly justified vote where he was previously lurking. I find this an interesting comparison to his behaviour today, where he also jumped on my wagon in a relatively similar fashion.
I think I was the only other person to join it after that, but I could be mistaken on that one. Maybe Ircher did too at some point? Either way, it never got all that much traction and was drowned out by the cacophony around Grey and RD.
Naomi is the only one I haven't mentioned much. I'm wondering whether to revisit her 'scumslip' thing given the knowledge that Grey is now almost certainly town and RD has flipped scum, but it's a hard thing to get a read on. The fact that she was also never on the RD wagon is also telling. There isn't exactly anything ironclad though.
This game is fucking weird. From looking at this, I'd be most inclined to suspect some combination of {Flubber, Gin, AA, Naomi}. Most suspicious of Flubber and Gin within those four. But I get that y'all are going to want to start with me first. Thoughts?-
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krylea Goon
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- Joined: September 8, 2014
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