Mini Normal 1854: Game Over

[Aj The Epic]

Hello all, summary?

[Aj The Epic]

what is it with me replacing liars...

role says I'm vt

[Aj The Epic]

Then perhaps you should be more concerned with the one who asked to begin with. For all you know, I'm pulling WIFOM on that altogether.

I couldn't give a fuck about my prior's iso because it's the least important part of the game for me catching up.

[Aj The Epic]

I can trust their opinion, sure, but that does nothing for me since I don't normally rely on someone else's opinion.

[Aj The Epic]

So this is my notification that I'm still reading and such.

A point is I think it's highly likely Joshz is scum. Eric Rasputin was highly suspect and what I've read on this page does nothing to make me warm and fuzzy about the slot. Specifically, drawing on the newb card isn't an excuse for bad play. New players are honest and easily readable as town, if not confused. Inconsistency is a great way to catch the differentiation if nothing else.

[Aj The Epic]

Yeah well I've been given the RL Treestump role so I gotta play the part.

[Aj The Epic]

It's cute to see you think the above is how you play mafia correctly. I'm still rereading the thread so of course I haven't read everything. That's understood in the point of replacing. And getting offended over me believing you to be scum isn't helpful to you at all.

[Aj The Epic]

I mean I lynch AtE as a policy that scum need it as defense whereas a town won't need to lie.

That's also just me not wanting sappy shit in the thread so I lynch it. There's definitely real emotions occasionally but it's not worth encouraging.

[Aj The Epic]

Lol I didn't see the mod note and got really confused

Hi Sonia. Maybe you'll be done your read through before aj!

In my defense, I am both half way caught up and in finals week for college.

[Aj The Epic]

Aj - this is a small issue, but has thrown shade on Eric after the consensus decided he was town

I did so after reading the first few pages of his. They were not good by any measure.

[Aj The Epic]

Walk me through the logic of how him believing new players don't get scum when he claims to have played for 7 years. I think I get what you're going for (he's new, thought new can't get scum, ergo isn't scum) but I'm not really seeing it, especially when he claims to have a lot of experience.

[Aj The Epic]

Aristo, Hiraki, mind voting AJ with me? As far as catchups go, that one was particularly pitiful.

the one he didn't make yet?

i can't atm tbh

What do you think about the reasons I brought up against Deer?

It's also not like he hasn't had time to catch up and yet the only thing he's able to provide is his ridiculous reasons for reading Eric as scum - do you believe a town player here with any measure of competence should be reading Eric as scum for the reasons AJ is?

I know you're better than this.

I'm almost positive you know that I'm finishing up finals. I've stated that in multiple places. That's what's delayed this. It's not me being less here, that's everywhere. I finished them yesterday morning and had assignments for my job (university resident assistant) that required me to do administrative work until this morning at 2am. Meaning now I'm free.

The the is, I haven't really provided anything on josh other than 1.) Don't pull the noob card, 2.) new town are bleeding heart town and 3.) I didn't like eric's early posting.

Guess what? My slot predecessor agreed with this third point. While people called Eric the VI/newbtown, he contradicted that second point himself.

24 hours and the game's completely caught up on.

[Aj The Epic]

No, simply because in most cases, it's rather demoralizing to be called a VI.

[Aj The Epic]

ROFL an Ahished tell? I was AGREEING with my predecessor.

The lack of content is simply due to how can I have 100% conviction without having completed a read? That's just taking priority right now.

[Aj The Epic]

Eric's statement wasn't what made me scumread him in the first place. I don't believe being stupid warrants a town read, especially since it's fairly common knowledge that new people to mafia go through R2R first. Certainly I don't think that's enough to take away from the fact that everything I had read when I made the statement was him paying attention only to himself, working hard to have the appearance of shrugging off votes and doing absolutely nothing for the town.

[Aj The Epic]

Hey don't bother people trying to slip onto wagons for an easy lynch.

[Aj The Epic]

Twoface is considered conftown, right?

[Aj The Epic]

I don't use modconfirmed and conftown interchangeably, so that's mostly on me.

Yeah there was 0 reason for him to go after fitz like he did if they were on the same team.

[Aj The Epic]

Nacho, I'd like to debate your read on Ari. My accusations come from his voting patterns, more retroactively viewed.

Who's up for a Fitz lynch today?
His arguments against people are horrendous, and I know he's better than that. I mean like "You voted a Mason before they claimed! You must be scum!" doesn't even make any fucking sense!

VOTE: Fitz

So checking in here. Context: Fitz has started his wall posts by this post, and I think the four-call scum post (with the bad line endings that made it look like a poem) had already come through. There's reason to vote him. To this point, Ari addresses Fitz on a vote for Io(deer)(my) slot's vote on an inactive, voting for Fitz in RVS. Once more later basically on sarcasm which was basically NAI all around. Anyways, there's reason for a Fitz lynch.

I'm dead serious: if we end up not having a decent lynch at deadline I suggest we PL Creeps because his play will get in the way of the town.

I'd be down

Exchange goes together. Gamma advocates the PL on Creeps, Ari shows interest and in fact subsequently votes for creeps on the admitted PL. Both bad by Gamma and Creeps. Major issue is there's two posts between this and his fitz vote. First, one complaining about Creeps posting a huge wall for nothing more than a line response. The second correcting a grammatical mistake in his post brought up by another player.

Nah it's been inactive for a while.

Has it? Huh.

We are going to end up with a no-lynch at this rate. Not good. At all

We should all consolidate on a wagon to avoid this.

VOTE: Creeps

But when push comes to shove, he consolidates on a PL instead of going with what seems to be his scum read. But my problem is, here's the vote count:

havingfitz (3): TwoFace, Gamma Emerald, Aristophanes
Hiraki (3): Lil Uzi Vert, MisaTange, Eric Rasputin
Creeps20 (2): ScumDeersAreVeryTasty, Hiraki
Lil Uzi Vert (1): TheseViolentDelights
TwoFace (1): havingfitz
ScumDeersAreVeryTasty (1): Creeps20

No Vote (2): FrankJaeger, Vedith

He's changing to a creeps vote from his scum read when his vote change just changes the top wagon, not pushes it farther. Which is this awkward action that shouldn't exist given the lynch between a suspected scum and a policy lynch.

Alright, so I've Iso'd Creeps and he hasn't done a single town thing yet. He needs to die. If you disagree, please let me know why, because if you can read this Iso and say "Sure, that could be town" then you've played with some pretty useless townies.

I could also be happy with an Eric lynch, but I'd rather see what his replacement can do I guess.

Gamma is meh. I hate his outing of the partners, but otherwise I guess he's aight. Not a today thing for sure.

Fitz I know I scumread and I can't remember why, nor can I be bothered to check atm. I'll vote there if I have to.

Like honestly, can we just get to the night phase? I'm getting antsy.

Jeeeesus. Can't remember why he scum reads Fitz but knows Creeps is bad, who he moved initially onto a policy lynch. Nothing in Creep's iso is town, but no reference of a specific point. The only saving grace is he thinks Eric is scum. Before you start this shit of "oh but he's VI/Conf town", foot in mouth and continue reading.

Eric's actions actually are consistent with Creeps' own actions this game. Specifically the segment about how Creeps doesn't use an avatar. It's a completely stupid notion and a newb move. Who are you actually trying to get to skip your post? Yet it was blown up to be anti-town in THIS INSTANCE where it's a site wide philosophy held by creeps (as instanced by the fact that you can't change avatars for specific threads). In the fact that he's reading his self-admitted PL and Eric the same way, there is consistency here.

The concerning part that remains is that "Nothing town" doesn't mean "scum" and as short as that bridge is between the two, Ari does nothing to build it. There's no conviction to this wagon that is now entering a range that was about to guarantee creeps' lynch.

And really, looking back we can almost assume that Creep's wagon was a COUNTERWAGON to Fitz, a scum lynch. The one who perpetuates the force of this counterwagon is actually Ari, who basically swung the top two wagons by switching from a scum read to a Gamma-admitted (and not Ari-argued) PL.

but you make the most sense as the scum partner, I called that shit ages ago

fitz/tvd (you)/hiraki

> Calls Fitz Scum
> Refuses to lynch Fitz
>> Refuses to lynch Scum.

Guys, TwoFace is scum :O

This was weird, because it came AFTER fitz was lynched, but before the flip. This is basically targeting out Twoface, who did get a serious case of cold feet vs Fitz but did argue it the majority of the way into existence to begin with. Ari really hadn't been this loose since far earlier in the game, too, and was late to the Fitz wagon. But ODDLY ENOUGH he's got this assuredness that fitz is scum now, after saying he can't remember why fitz was scum earlier.

I'll understand if you want to avoid this, nacho, but I don't want to hear an excuse of meta.

Ari, Gamma.
Hiraki/Frank need to be better seen.

Nacho, Sonia, josh, Vedith are town. If you're going to put Josh as town for Eric, I see no reason Sonia doesn't get the same pass. Hesistant on Uzi.

Given my current wagons, and how Hiraki's wagon has seemed to be the 'easy second' all day yesterday and today, I'd like to point out that Gamma/Frank are all over that wagon.

[Aj The Epic]

Well you see, I came up just short of actually catching all the way up. I'm like halfway into D2, so I'm like 90% of the way there due to where I started.

[Aj The Epic]

No, actually. I was assuming Nacho was a mason wit Ari with how ridiculous his defense of Ari felt. I hadn't gotten to that part of the reveal.

[Aj The Epic]

That's L-1, but don't expect me to be giving intent any time soon.

[Aj The Epic]

Ari, while you're here, why don't you take some time to respond to my post.

[Aj The Epic]

Except you really don't need Hiraki's lynch when he was already a counterwagon to Fitz.

[Aj The Epic]

You need to explain what this 'bit more' is. I'm still wanting Nacho to respond to my belief on Ari, but he's thus far ignoring it. The reason I suggested it'd be fine if he didn't want to address it was because I assumed the mason was still hidden and nacho's 'meta' read coverage was him covering his mason buddy's ass.

[Aj The Epic]

Are you fine with this wagon do you think it's gonna flip town/scum
Are you finally caught up or decently so?
If you had to guess a few sr's what would it be
can you explain your top 2 tr's outside of masons a bit more
What do you think of the backup bg claim

This wagon flips Hiraki town.
I'm basically caught up. I think there's about 5 pages between where I stopped reading and where I replaced in.
Ari is the strongest one. Given Frank's BG claim I'm not confident in a second outside Gamma for advocating a PL d1.
No. This game feels scum as shit top to bottom, being a TR for me is like being the least bad scum right now. I feel confident with TwoFace being town but that's because getting cold feet on a wagon doesn't necessitate scum being unwilling to bus, just insecure town.
Just having read nacho's reason on it, I agree. I've never seen a backup BG, but BG's in general are normally a super weak role to begin with. I don't know Frank well enough to say he can/can't fake claim but my guess is in line with Nacho's, that his is beyond his current experience to fake claim that.

[Aj The Epic]

As I told Josh, I'll explain the read on Ari when I have time to. I haven't had time to and it certainly hasn't been a priority of mine.

Yeah the issue here is you're probably not going to be around to do that. A town this weak suggests a weak scum team, which really just suggests they'll start picking off town leaders which gets them a basic conftown.

[Aj The Epic]

Frank buys you one night. After that, if the town straight loses members off of mislynches, this town as it is now has no capacity to win this game. You need look no farther than Day 1 to see this, how disjointed the base is and how incapable the entire game was of getting a town block and after that having the town block be coherent. How does that continue if the foundation isn't laid before you go in N3?

What needs to be done before then is LUV/Joshz need to step up to make that block. The voters from yesterday need to be strongly re-evaluated on the specific counterwagons to Fitz and the sheeping mentality needs to stop. The lack of justification in this game is going to kill it. I'm pretty sure you realize this, but there is a lot of "administrative" work that needs to take place before you exit.

[Aj The Epic]

That doesn't address anything, Uzi. Disinterest isn't an option for conftown.

[Aj The Epic]

More importantly, Frank dies tonight in any reasonably scenario. There's really no choice who he protects because scum simply cannot let Nacho live.

[Aj The Epic]

There's no need to worry about Frank because here is the end-all be-all:

If Nacho dies before Frank, Frank gets lynched.

I know I'm beating a dead horse but this is simply the only way that can play out. Scum having a RB is near impossible in this setup since BG is almost negative/neutral utility to the town as it really doesn't help them (they still lose someone).

What do we know about Gamma? In current situation (assuming no lies from Frank), Hiraki's wagon is almost 100% town. This seems nigh impossible to me because scum should've seen the writing on the wall yesterday that Hiraki was probably going to die. Them not being there makes no sense on either side.

[Aj The Epic]

Alright Sonia. Assume this is a mislynch, Frank dies tomorrow. Next course of action?

[Aj The Epic]

*Frank dies tonight (BG on nacho)

[Aj The Epic]

See, this is exactly what worries me about you is because this shit is where the town loses. We either catch scum tonight (frank's lie, Nacho dies) or you're gonna have one last day with Nacho able to lead this town. And in that day, if you really plan to waste it on such an easy mislynch, going forward this town will deconstruct. If you're really convinced this slot is scum, then that should be D4's lynch, not D3.

[Aj The Epic]

I'm normally not capable of guiding a town by myself, so that's why I think Nacho being alive is so damn paramount. What my main goal is to try and setup the core of a town to be ready for nacho's departure. Yeah I'll work on scumhunting but I think we have to clean this game up to find the town people and engage them first.

[Aj The Epic]

I think you realize I'm looking at it a different way than that. It's not worth arguing over more than saying that a system is worth using when everyone has an established and organized role towards the goal of winning.

As far as I'm concerned, the most major breakdown right now is there's not enough evaluation of who's been on what wagon and why. People don't like VCA, but this is more an idea to get a sense of motive. Why did someone join a wagon? Why'd they leave? How's in benefit them to do that? This hasn't been happening and is a stark contrast to a town that constantly re-evaluates those people who have joined a wagon under suspicious circumstances. The ends do not justify the means in mafia, so you have to make sure you are evaluating those means. That's exactly what I was doing in my post about Ari, and what I think this town needs to do with each individual.

[Aj The Epic]

If nacho dies, you're dead to rights. All I'm saying and you should completely understand this. There IS a correct play here.

[Aj The Epic]

You claimed BG.

[Aj The Epic]

If you really need help understanding this:

1) No one in this game is currently able to do what Nacho can to advance the Town
2) Nacho can do what anyone else in this game is currently capable of doing
3) Ergo, Nacho is the most important player in this game, both to scum and town.

The LONGER Nacho survives, the harder this game is to win for scum. That is ALL there is to it.

[Aj The Epic]

No, scum will go for nacho EVEN IF they know Frank BG's him. They NEED nacho dead asap and if that takes them to n3, then it takes them to n3. It's far better than delaying it for some other halfassed kill.

[Aj The Epic]

Frank: I've already stated this. Your role ONLY COMES INTO QUESTION if Nacho dies before you. In which case, you're dead

[Aj The Epic]

Luv isn't anything more than a slot we know that is town. Nacho is someone we know that is town and also someone capable of winning the game. If you CAN'T see this huge difference, there's nothing more but for you to die if Nacho does. Insolence is not an excuse for nacho to die before you.

[Aj The Epic]

VOTE: Sonia

Really it's disappointing, but you've been able to provide no decent answers and instead insisted on going for lynch bait.

[Aj The Epic]

Lazy excuse for a bad explanation.

[Aj The Epic]

You still need to tell me why you think Gamma is lynch bait.

HIRAKI was the lynch bait, that you decided to hammer. Not Gamma.

[Aj The Epic]

"From the context I was given"? AKA the ENTIRETY OF THIS THREAD?

No, your words to me scream that you understood this was a mislynch.

[Aj The Epic]

I finished catching up literally a day and a half before you hammered? That might have a

slight

affect on me making a counterwagon.

Now, your reason is still garbage. You were told he would vote scum, and it's fishy he didn't? Pot, kettle. So is that a good reason to lynch you now?

[Aj The Epic]

The concerning part that remains is that "Nothing town" doesn't mean "scum" and as short as that bridge is between the two, Ari does nothing to build it. There's no conviction to this wagon that is now entering a range that was about to guarantee creeps' lynch.

And really, looking back we can almost assume that Creep's wagon was a COUNTERWAGON to Fitz, a scum lynch. The one who perpetuates the force of this counterwagon is actually Ari, who basically swung the top two wagons by switching from a scum read to a Gamma-admitted (and not Ari-argued) PL.

"Nothing town" can mean scum or else the PoE line of play wouldn't exist at all.
Creeps wasn't a counter wagon to Fitz; Fitz was a counter wagon to Creeps. The reason why I'm pointing this out is because the Fitz wagon was dead in the water when the Creeps wagon started; it wasn't until I started pushing Fitz and getting support on Fitz that he became a legitimate wagon again.

I don't like you trying to build the narrative that Ari swung Creeps to save Fitz when that's nowhere near what actually happened.

I'm not saying he swung his vote to 'save fitz', nor did I suggest that. My suggestion was that he went from a vote he called scum to a vote he wasn't sure of/didn't have conviction written to yet that had the same amount of 'pressure' with his vote. And he also didn't do the groundwork to say "This is scum, not just anti-town". I don't like the idea of lynching someone for anti-town play unless that's literally the only scummy play that exists, so being content with not explaining how it was scum for me isn't enough

This was weird, because it came AFTER fitz was lynched, but before the flip. This is basically targeting out Twoface, who did get a serious case of cold feet vs Fitz but did argue it the majority of the way into existence to begin with. Ari really hadn't been this loose since far earlier in the game, too, and was late to the Fitz wagon. But ODDLY ENOUGH he's got this assuredness that fitz is scum now, after saying he can't remember why fitz was scum earlier.

And, surprise surprise, AJ is ignoring context to push a bullshit narrative.

TwoFace posted that case as a reason for Mathblade to be scum.
Aristophanes countered by posting his case back at him (and putting the conclusion as he was scum). The ":o" should have tipped you off that it wasn't a completely serious case. It's also interesting that you ignore Aristophanes showing doubt about Fitz flipping scum around this point, which also would have been a decent tip off that the post you're referring to wasn't completely serious.

"Bullshit narrative" where Ari suddenly goes from uptight and having his own scumteam to convinced Fitz is scum and loose about the lynch? He more or less (actually, he DOES) compromise on a Fitz lynch because a 'no lynch would be bad', and keeps his scumteam as Gamma/Creeps/TwoFace. So no, the conclusion wasn't drawn that TwoFace was scum from that, Ari already believed that. What I'm looking at is before/after hammer vote and I DID notice the difference there. That's why it pinged me in the first place.

Would you call Ari town and make this case if you didn't know his meta.

[Aj The Epic]

People piggyback masons harder and can more easily justify their reads. I would like Nacho to do so at the end of the day around the hammer but it's understandable why he wouldn't earlier.

[Aj The Epic]

Nacho if you're going to throw out posturing as a case you might as well just say that you have no chance of seeing me as anything but scum.

[Aj The Epic]

I don't remember you being so hell bent on losing games.

VOTE: Gamma

I think I made it clear that at the very least today should be the groundwork to actually pick out someone who's scum and if you have to, lynch me D4. You die tonight so why do something that the town seems incredibly capable of doing?

[Aj The Epic]

Creeps has done nothing protown as I see it. I can get with this.
VOTE: Creeps20

I think we've talked about 'nothing pro-town' is a short jump to scum, but not bridged.

My reasons for voting Creeps are that if he is scum he is using poor play as a smokescreen, and if he is town he is giving power to scum, especially by distrusting the confirmed masons.

It's not just policy: I believe Creeps has a chance of flipping scum

OK
I'd prefer if you'd stop discrediting it by calling it a policy lynch though.

who else besides creep would you lynch today and why gamma?

p.edit - but that's what it is. voting a person for playing poorly is what policy lynches were invented for

Fitz or Hiraki.
I understand it's a policy lynch, but the way you talk about feels like discrediting.

It's not a PL, totally legit. But you really should stop acknowledging the fact it's a PL. What an odd thing to do. He again was voting Fitz first.

Creeps I'd prefer if you claimed now since we're having trouble assembling votes rn.

This is L-2 with 24+ hours left. There's motivation to move the game, but this isn't the town-driven way to do that.

Wait, Eric was still an option for fitz?
VOTE: Havingfitz
Eric's conftown buddy.

VOTE: Creeps
L-1

...ayy. That's actually disgusting.

[Aj The Epic]

"Finally do something" alright really, buzz off. I didn't waste my damn time making a case on you for you to just pretend it doesn't exist.

[Aj The Epic]

I don't care if you analyze it, just acknowledge that it exists in the first place.

[Aj The Epic]

When I say that with the not protown/scum thing, I'm basically saying that while close, anti-town isn't necessarily scum. It's just bad play. Whenever I see a lynch on anti-town, it can always be called into question if it's actually just a PL. We consider lurking anti-town, for example.

I get what Nacho said (at the time) with the claim, in the fact that it was drawing near for the day to end. However the best reaction would've been to have worked for encouraging activity early on, declaring the options real quick and pushing hard for the lynch, not asking for a L-2 claim. No one's going to let a game go to a NL night 1, or there's enough town around to prevent it.

I think the vote switch is more telling that we've been giving it credit. It's not like Gamma does a lot with that wagon outside cheerleading Creeps into existence, and the vote change back on looks opportunistic as hell.

Your original statement just made it seem like I had done nothing the entire time I've been here. That's not really true, even though the time I've been here is rather limited thus far. I've made two cases, which is more than I can say for a lot of people here. Importantly, the town is going with a 'next man up' philosophy to lynching and never once stopping to say "hey that Hiraki lynch didn't exactly work out right".

[Aj The Epic]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p8633739

That one is the case on Ari made a while back.

[Aj The Epic]

Merry Christmas everyone.

Make sure you get a healthy amount of eggnog

[Aj The Epic]

ROFL probably not.

-Fitz/Creeps major wagons yesterday. Hikrai dueling wagons with them. After a time, Mathblades became universally town read (replaced in, died N1 Bodyguard). Early wagon ran up Nacho's predecessor to claim mason with Uzi at L-2.
--Creeps gets to L-2, Gamma asks for claim. Gamma's also probably the main cheerleader of the wagon. Somewhere around 36 hours to go in day when this occurs. Nacho/other replace-ins prompt extra time, so thread doesn't end. Gamma unvotes, votes Fitz, then revotes as soon as someone replaces his vote, putting creeps L-1.
-Derailing happens... I dunno this part well enough. Long and short, Fitz starts to become default wagon, hiraki/Creeps sure secondary wagons. Fitz had been making some longass walls that had a bit of flailing in them, and it was finally enough to get him. Pretty sure he claimed a PR and still got lynched anyways. Flips scum.

D2, Nacho takes over wagon1. Frank, who had been lurking hardcore with no real attempt to play town to that point, gets pushed. Backup Bodyguard claims, wagon derails. Wagons start on Nacho's scumreads (deer/my slot, Vedith? and Hiraki). The wagon's pretty easy, is ran up high pretty easy with only real reason day isn't ended earlier is more replacements. I replace in right about now. Call Hiraki town, Josh slot scum off of some of Eric's early posts and what I had seen. Starts some pressure on me. Case made on Ari, Nacho claims Ari town off meta, would explain later. Hiraki eventually dies, claims Vedith/My slot town. Flips town.
-Frank dies to BG after we forced him to protect Nacho, saying he would die if nacho died before him.

-D3, wagons basically as is. Nacho makes case that Ari is town based meta and refuting case, case made on Gamma.

Overall, Uzi/Nacho are conftown. Josh is probs town. Nacho is completely convinced Ari is town. Afterwards, you/me have the hardest wagons with a town that's basically just railroading lynches right now. Gamma should be in the scum pile. We're probably dealing with two more scum.

[Aj The Epic]

He ain't either. Why do you think I pinged joshz the same way with my entrance? Josh's game honestly doesn't look town. We're still mainly on blind faith that Eric was VI here.

[Aj The Epic]

You seem to clearly miss the point of how strongly townread your predecessor was.

[Aj The Epic]

His early posts, yes.

I also have bigger fish to fry than Josh's slot.

[Aj The Epic]

I don't see a skillet.

[Aj The Epic]

AJ: Who are the bigger fish? Just Gamma?

And then Sonia or Twoface. I'm going back and forth to why he decided to get cold feet on the Fitz wagon right now, but I still don't think scum would drop off such an obvious lynch.

[Aj The Epic]

That reason for a lynch is a load of horseshit Twoface

[Aj The Epic]

Are you going to play the game correctly or just AtE?

Look, you jumped ship right at the end. Cold feet is cold feet. The point he's going for doesn't change regardless of your framing. What I see is you playing semantics to deflect this. What's it matter if you voted elsewhere vs plain unvoting? You still jumped ship right before a lynch was about to be achieved.

[Aj The Epic]

How are you reading Gamma as town?

[Aj The Epic]

Semantics are garbage scumtells. Don't even start thinking that's acceptable.

[Aj The Epic]

Gamma have you placed a vote all day? Nice coasting btw.

[Aj The Epic]

This game is actually disappointing.

[Aj The Epic]

It wouldn't hurt for you to try and do something, since you're conftown.

I did warn you all that railroading was all this town was willing to do. I don't see anyone here willing to look into reads outside Emp/myself and if you really think you're that good at the game, you A) haven't been reading the thread well and B) are going to get a nasty surprise if you waste two days doing this. Hell the primary issue I see is Emp and myself have produced more content in the last 1.5 game days than the rest of the alive players combined.

There's scum on this lynch/intent. It ran up too easy and is too safe a wagon for them to have avoided. Because no one here is willing to call them on this railroading shit, they've continued to do so. And look no further than good old Gamma coming back from his vacation to pull a lynch.

[Aj The Epic]

Lynching Hikari and getting town should've shown that.

[Aj The Epic]

Oooooh boooooy scum have decided to spin my vaycay as scummy.

Ain't saying your vacation is scum, you coming back and slipping on a wagon with not too much interaction is though.

[Aj The Epic]

I see one line posts by you for like... 30 ISO posts. And the only thing you think is Emp and I are both scum, the EASIEST LYNCHES YOU CAN PULL. Nothing you've done to prove it, just sitting there expecting it to happen and being able to say "I said they were scum" without doing shit to push it. I don't consider anything you've done 'interacting'.

[Aj The Epic]

What wagon? I asked AJ for a summary of the entire game. His own wagon? Someone describing the wagon on him could be a great source of information. About the mindset of the one describing. (As it was his response wan't that informative, to be fair)

You also asked a replacement to summarize the game.

[Aj The Epic]

Other than the fact that you're tunneling the shit out of the game right now,

Alright nacho, if I'm scum with gamma, why is gamma the only person I'm currently pushing.

[Aj The Epic]

I mean I'm not going to be terribly fickle about this but:

Yesterday then, when my lynch and Hiraki's were both on the line, why wouldn't i have adapted when I got into the game to push Hiraki? If I had a scummate I could've avoided reading joshz on only josh's play and have a basic rundown before I got heavily into posting. Your argument about my 'survivalist notion' with Josh isn't really true since I pushed it for multiple days until I really got into re-reading the thread.

My main issue is you obviously aren't going to reconsider so why fucking bother.

[Aj The Epic]

So basically you think Ari could be scum, but you call me scum, who is the ONLY ONE to bring a case against Ari and the only one to that point to voice strong suspicions? You can't have it both ways.

[Aj The Epic]

So basically you think Ari could be scum, but you call me scum, who is the ONLY ONE to bring a case against Ari and the only one to that point to voice strong suspicions? You can't have it both ways.

No I don't
I'm saying I have no clue who is scum if not Emp/Aj.

That's not at all what you said. More importantly you once again aim for easiest wagons.

[Aj The Epic]

Lynch gamma. You're railroading.

[Aj The Epic]

Also fantastic job ignoring literally everything Nacho posted, so why even bother waiting if you were just going to disregard them anyways?

[Aj The Epic]

Twoface, Gamma scum.

Stupidass hammer.

[Aj The Epic]

And don't you fucking allow him to play 'it's a mistake' as an excuse. There's no fucking mistake when the vote count is two posts above and there are NO unpunishable coincidences in mafia.

[Aj The Epic]

Twoface, Gamma scum.

Stupidass hammer.

This is stupid logic. How about you cut the confbias on me and see that fitz's push on me and TF is not scum distancing.

You're going to pull that now instead of far earlier when it was brought up? Your actions around that hammer was weird, your inability to address the case until this thread is closing up is also bad and you wouldn't consider anything else.

Twoface, my mark stands. You cannot afford mistakes in this game and you cannot afford them to go unpunished.

[Aj The Epic]

That being said I want Gamma dead first.

[Aj The Epic]

So aj is town

Aj, please post last thoughts and if you think Empking is scum partner assuming TwoFace isn't (I intend to lynch gamma before Empking if you're flipping town)

Go with Nacho's read here. I doubt Emp is scum, and you're about to have 3 flipped town players saying this (nacho/hiraki/myself).

I think Gamma is the most obvious scum. This is going to require a bit of work on your end because I really haven't much of an idea on the second. Sonia/TwoFace/??? IDK.

@Ari, there's a great quote from The Godfather that kinda mends my mentality for accidents in mafia

...He takes everything personal Like God. He knows every feather that falls from the tail of a sparrow or however the hell it goes? Right? And you know something? Accidents don't happen to people who take accidents as a personal insult.”

I know, I know. It's a book quote, but in a game like this, it's a great philosophy. It's one of the mentalities that makes LAL exist.

[Aj The Epic]

TBH I still think Gamma/Sonia is more likely than Gamma/Twoface. Uzi should get nacho's opinions going into night if nothing else. I don't know Sonia and can't read her but I don't particularly like how much of a non-factor she's been recently.

[Aj The Epic]

There's no self-preservation.

[Aj The Epic]

You don't have to be sold on shit though. You already set that ship sailing.