Mini Normal 1854: Game Over

[xSoniaNevermindx]

I'll take you up on that offer

I want Aj to give a bit more before I hammer but that's all I'm waiting for at this point

[xSoniaNevermindx]

Oh wait did Ari full claim?

[Nachomamma8]

You would think the person at L-1 would be more frantic/trying harder if himself and his tr were the top 2 lynch choices when it's clear Aj is also a good wagon.

Alright that does it for me

Intent

You'd think that Hiraki as scum would be more willing to vote his counterwagon when he's in danger.

[xSoniaNevermindx]

You would think the person at L-1 would be more frantic/trying harder if himself and his tr were the top 2 lynch choices when it's clear Aj is also a good wagon.

Alright that does it for me

Intent

You'd think that Hiraki as scum would be more willing to vote his counterwagon when he's in danger.

Would you vote your counter wagon if it was a tr or try to get a new one going?

[Nachomamma8]

AJ hasn't even given his summary yet and hasn't done anything that's actually scummy. See my discussion with xSonia on the difference between what he said and what people think he said.

I don't see how you can scumread Vedith fairly so I don't know how to defend that.

@nacho: Yeah but we're at a little more than a day and 6 hours with xSonia already declaring intent - there's a point where you gotta understand that even though Gamma is literally the scummiest person in the game, you gotta die for him to be lynched D3 wink wink nudge nudge

I'm not going to hop over to the other wagon because it might be nicer

@xSonia - I've been the leading wagon for about the entire day (so about a week now) but this was before you replaced in so I can understand why you didn't see that

AJ's scumread on Eric is miles away from his typical approach to reading people as town. I can very easily see him as scum fabricated that read because it's garbage. You say that he hasn't had a chance to catch up, but he has; he said he was done with finals, he said that he had free time, and still he's produced nothing.

Deer was also in the game, Deer also had a bad scumread on Eric, Deer had a very weird interaction with TwoFace where he went from scumreading him to townreading/sheeping him in a single post. Deer also put you above Fitz in his final reads spew despite not saying anything about you before and having Fitz above you previously.

Your flip doesn't clear AJ. AJ's scumflip manages to clear you. You pretend that there isn't a case on the slot, but the reality is that you've given up and haven't bothered reading it; there's no reason to blame you not buying the AJ lynch on town when you aren't meeting us halfway.

[Nachomamma8]

You would think the person at L-1 would be more frantic/trying harder if himself and his tr were the top 2 lynch choices when it's clear Aj is also a good wagon.

Alright that does it for me

Intent

You'd think that Hiraki as scum would be more willing to vote his counterwagon when he's in danger.

Would you vote your counter wagon if it was a tr or try to get a new one going?

If I was town, I'd be explaining why AJ was town and I'd continue pressing my Gamma case.

If I was scum, I wouldn't have fabricated that dumb read on AJ in the first place.

[Aj The Epic]

Except you really don't need Hiraki's lynch when he was already a counterwagon to Fitz.

[xSoniaNevermindx]

See were getting somewhere.
And what point's the point of the "dumb read" on Aj then.

[xSoniaNevermindx]

I'll take you up on that offer

I want Aj to give a bit more before I hammer but that's all I'm waiting for at this point

@Aj

[Aj The Epic]

You need to explain what this 'bit more' is. I'm still wanting Nacho to respond to my belief on Ari, but he's thus far ignoring it. The reason I suggested it'd be fine if he didn't want to address it was because I assumed the mason was still hidden and nacho's 'meta' read coverage was him covering his mason buddy's ass.

[xSoniaNevermindx]

Are you fine with this wagon do you think it's gonna flip town/scum
Are you finally caught up or decently so?
If you had to guess a few sr's what would it be
can you explain your top 2 tr's outside of masons a bit more
What do you think of the backup bg claim

[Joshz]

Hiraki is experienced enough to know what town wants. Jumping on the aj wagon would make him look worse and he knows that, refusing to lynch aj looks townie until you realize that's just how it's projected. We've alreasy had this discussion, scum can't just jump on the first wagon that isn't scum because it looks awful, Hiraki has been tunnelling gamma (and creeps) and he isn't just going to flip his vote. I don't think it's alignment indicative overall. If I were scum in Hiraki's situation I would vote aj and argue it's better than being lynched but still vocally push a gamma lynch and say you think aj is a mislynch but it's still better. If hiraki isn't even going to post where his vedith tr comes from I see no reason to not lynch him. If he's scum we don't have inspect roles in this game to clear him with so if we lynch aj today and he flips town hiraki could easily just get lynched tomorrow and if he's also town were fucked. Hiraki and sonia have both already acknowledged that hiraki is the best lynch regardless though so I guess I'm arguing with the air.

[Hiraki]

you know what Nacho - I

really

don't believe in the case you've provided but Gamma isn't going to help anyone and I'd rather not vote myself - let's make things interesting; if they go bad - oh well, im willing to take a risk on your confirmed dime. would kind of ruin things if Sonia hammered but I think that was psuedo inevitable anyway

Vote: AJ

(L-2 just FYI)

if you want a very very soft town defense, it came from HF hard reading IO as scum for

literally

no reason - I don't see scumHF doing that. i don't think AJ's current actions are terrible enough for a lynch or even a BW - i would really rather something more substantial

Jumping on the aj wagon would make him look worse and he knows that

smugsmug

[xSoniaNevermindx]

oooo
I'm gonna sleep and wake up and wait for aj's thing
then I'll hammer but this playing out could be interesting

[Gamma Emerald]

you know what Nacho - I

really

don't believe in the case you've provided but Gamma isn't going to help anyone and I'd rather not vote myself - let's make things interesting; if they go bad - oh well, im willing to take a risk on your confirmed dime. would kind of ruin things if Sonia hammered but I think that was psuedo inevitable anyway

Vote: AJ

(L-2 just FYI)

if you want a very very soft town defense, it came from HF hard reading IO as scum for

literally

no reason -

I don't see scumHF doing that

. i don't think AJ's current actions are terrible enough for a lynch or even a BW - i would really rather something more substantial

Jumping on the aj wagon would make him look worse and he knows that

smugsmug

HF is flipped scum.

[Hiraki]

thank you for letting me know that

[Nachomamma8]

As I told Josh, I'll explain the read on Ari when I have time to. I haven't had time to and it certainly hasn't been a priority of mine.

[Joshz]

Are you still considering him lock town?

[Aj The Epic]

Are you fine with this wagon do you think it's gonna flip town/scum
Are you finally caught up or decently so?
If you had to guess a few sr's what would it be
can you explain your top 2 tr's outside of masons a bit more
What do you think of the backup bg claim

This wagon flips Hiraki town.
I'm basically caught up. I think there's about 5 pages between where I stopped reading and where I replaced in.
Ari is the strongest one. Given Frank's BG claim I'm not confident in a second outside Gamma for advocating a PL d1.
No. This game feels scum as shit top to bottom, being a TR for me is like being the least bad scum right now. I feel confident with TwoFace being town but that's because getting cold feet on a wagon doesn't necessitate scum being unwilling to bus, just insecure town.
Just having read nacho's reason on it, I agree. I've never seen a backup BG, but BG's in general are normally a super weak role to begin with. I don't know Frank well enough to say he can/can't fake claim but my guess is in line with Nacho's, that his is beyond his current experience to fake claim that.

[Aj The Epic]

As I told Josh, I'll explain the read on Ari when I have time to. I haven't had time to and it certainly hasn't been a priority of mine.

Yeah the issue here is you're probably not going to be around to do that. A town this weak suggests a weak scum team, which really just suggests they'll start picking off town leaders which gets them a basic conftown.

[Joshz]

Frank doesn't need the experience to fake claim. He needs a partner experienced enough to give him a fake claim.

I already said it but scum is almost definitely killing nacho because the other Mason is much less active and helpful, and sonia/myself/TwoFace aren't confirmed even if we are being considered town. Like in lylo a desperate case can't be made for a mason but it can for the other 3 of us.

[Nachomamma8]

Frank should almost always be protecting me during the night unless LUV decides to step it up.

[Nachomamma8]

AJ, if I don't get to it by the end of the day, I'll put my thoughts in the Mason PT.

[Aj The Epic]

Frank buys you one night. After that, if the town straight loses members off of mislynches, this town as it is now has no capacity to win this game. You need look no farther than Day 1 to see this, how disjointed the base is and how incapable the entire game was of getting a town block and after that having the town block be coherent. How does that continue if the foundation isn't laid before you go in N3?

What needs to be done before then is LUV/Joshz need to step up to make that block. The voters from yesterday need to be strongly re-evaluated on the specific counterwagons to Fitz and the sheeping mentality needs to stop. The lack of justification in this game is going to kill it. I'm pretty sure you realize this, but there is a lot of "administrative" work that needs to take place before you exit.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I've been disinterested because this day should've been over with already. I hope Sonia follows through and we can move on.