Mini 506: The Siena Syndicate - Game Over!

[Peers]

Vote: VampanezeHunter

because nobody has yet.

[Peers]

Am I the only one thinking "Wow, this is giving us a wealth of information" right now?

[Peers]

What did you expect?

Comedy. I demand to be entertained!

Seriously, tho... I've gotten more out of this one page than I expected to. It's not stuff that'll help now, but certainly stuff that'll help later on.

[Peers]

Now -this- is entertainment! Now, do I change my vote or not... or see where the bandwagon is going first?

[Peers]

Unvote

Vote: Avinyl

Reason: He claims ChronX voted without a reason in post 34, when post 34 clearly states his reason for voting. He's either a) not paying attention to posts, which is dangerous for the town, or b) he's paying attention but trying to twist our perceptions, which can't possibly have a benign reason behind it.

[Peers]

Mod: I had voted for Avinyl in post 44.

Although I may change it to originality at the rate things are going...

Mod: *sigh*... I had to rush the votecount again. Fixed. Kudos for putting up with the terrible modding so far, anyway.

[Peers]

You guys are the most dry humorless bunch I've ever seen. If you really want to vote for me for not understanding the jokes please go ahead.

We understand the 'jokes'. They're just not funny. Your jokes have all the humor of the corpses of Farley and Belushi being dug up after rotting in the ground all these years -- you don't want to see them and want to cause physical harm to the person displaying them for the world to see.

[Peers]

.... The Mafia killed one of their own?

...

I'm confused now.

[Peers]

Well, with Originality dead, we know they weren't roleblocked... or there's two roleblockers, which seems a little severe.

[Peers]

Yeap, your fault. Remind me to drop from any game I see you sign up for. Now be quiet, you're dead.

Avinyl, what do you think is more likely... the person who Green Day random-voted for killed him... or the person who actually voted for Green Day killed him? (That would be you, BTW.)

And in either case... there's been several suggestions already. Green Day got killed my the Mafia as a confusion plan (not bloody likely); the Mafia got misdirected onto Green Day; the Mafia hit was stopped by a roleblocker or doctor and a third party (vig or SK) killed Green Day. In at least one of those cases (vig), we really, really don't want to out whoever killed GD; in others, it was just random fate and trying to find out who did it is wasted time; in at least one (SK) finding out who it was is going to be vital to the survival of the town.

So... where do we put our effort? Cynic Clinic, Avinyl, or somewhere else?

[Peers]

I think that even if Orig had claimed, he stll would have been hammered. He'd already claimed twice; I don't think we would have believed him. That, or he'd've done it in a way that continued to make him look like a douche, and we'd've dropped him anyway. We know there had to be several town voting for him, I'm more than willing to believe town did the hammer as well (well, for now, prove me wrong).

That's one of the reasons I hate the whole 'jackass townie' meta-role. They tend to get lynched early in the game because they provide so much of a distraction to the town, but it's arguable whether lynching them hurts the town more or less than leaving the JT alive. If everyone could just, y'know, not be a jackass when they play, games would go somewhat easier. Now we're on Day 2, and if Orig had been the type of person you don't want to punch in the face, we might've had some more information to work with.

[Peers]

Random observations.

So... where do we put our effort? Cynic Clinic, Avinyl, or somewhere else?

WTF kinda wording is this? "Put our effort" just sounds like you NEED to lynch somebody without risk of worrying if it's a pro-town player or whatever. Also, the second sentence sounds like you're trying to plant seeds in our heads.

... Um... wow, I'm not sure how to respond to this. The wording is exactly what it is... We do need to lynch someone, and it would be nice if we didn't have to worry about if they were pro-town or not, by somehow having a way to verify they're Mafia. So we all need to put our effort into finding a way to do that.

Or are you saying we don't NEED to lynch anyone? Reading what you wrote a certain way could lead one to believe that's what you're saying. Or am I putting seeds in people's heads again?

[Peers]

OK, so re: the night deaths, I think it's best to assume now that we have 3 Mafia and 1 SK running around - such would be the most likely case from the evidence we have. Considering other options should only be done if we get any strong evidence for other weird roles.

Care to give a reasoning on this insight? The only evidence we have is that there was only one death, and it was scum who died. So either we have a bus driver (which I admit is unlikely), or a doctor and an SK, vig, or maybe dayvig, or a paranoid gun owner/reflector.

For someone who FoS'd and voted for me because I was trying to limit the town's options, you sure seem to be doing the same thing.

[Peers]

Wow, I got two votes on me. And for what? Geeze... we're really grasping at straws here. All I did was ask "Do we focus on the guy who voted for the dead guy; the guy the dead guy voted for; or someone else?"

How am I trying to limit people's chances if I give 'someone else' as an option... one that several people are taking? Yikes.

Whoops ,ost track of time anyway here is my LoS!
1) Peers-Because he seems to be kind of ducking under the radar! Also his post on page 4 said "So...where do we put our efforts?" or something along those lines, anyway he is maybe pushing for another quicklynch?

Sorry. Got tied up with Halo 3 followed by a sick wife and kid -- not much time for the 'net.

(Insert my previous post here... got messed up quoting and copy-and-pasting from other posts)

[Peers]

How can anyone have the weakest case on a random-vote day?

[Peers]

Well, in the interest of stimulating discussion... to defend the guy who has a case on me, it does seem like a leading statement if you read it too fast or don't think about it. I name two names, which seems like I'm trying to limit people's options. But I also say "Or someone else", essentially inviting people to provide other options. It's possible he read that the wrong way, so I can understand where he's coming from.

Not enough to vote for myself, mind you, but I can understand. The fact I only have two votes on me shows that other people read that statement and took it for what it was: A suggestion and a request for other thoughts.

[Peers]

I'd like to hear from the people we haven't heard from for a while.

[Peers]

No need for a prod, I think we've just run out of things to discuss. So, in the itnerest of getting things going...

Vote: VampanzeeHunter

Reason: The only people he suspects are mostly inactive lurkers, well, he left one off his list...

Mod: I know most are still here, the prod was mainly to spark discussion rather than revive players.

[Peers]

If you read any of the game's he's involved in, he's really, really, really busy. Really.

Vamp, dude, you need to cut back on the games if you can't handle that many at once.

[Peers]

Maybe you should re-read the thread?

[Peers]

Welcome, Glork!

No jokes about rereading the thread, please.

[Peers]

Unvote

While I still don't like VH's "I don't like these three because they lurk" post... yeah, it's turning into a bandwagon, and I'd rather have him lynched for a good reason than bandwagoned.

But I not sold on Hadhfang. Why vote for him? A sketchy bandwagon join and lack of activity? That's not much to go on...

Minor FoS: Peers and Vamp

for their reactions to GD's death. The most sensible explanations are Vigilante or Serial Killer.
Have either of you encountered any of these roles before? Your "confusion" seems feigned.

Yes, I have encountered those roles before, but only in large (20+) person games. If one is in this game, it'll be my first small game with one of those roles -- although this is my first non-C9 'small game'. Someone said that 12-person games then to be three scum and an SK, so I'm more willing to believe there's on here... which, on the plus side, means the scum'll be looking for him too.

[Peers]

So, it'll be... 24-48 hours before you post again, you'll say you need to re-read the thread again, and not give us an FoS... but you'll promise you will next time?

... someone remind me why I unvoted?

[Peers]

.... Dude, I unvoted and wound up in limbo!

So, CC votes for CDB, Glrok votes for Hadhfang, and both of those two have votes on Vamp. Avinyl has had no connection, Vamp has had no time...

... Nope, I'm not seeing a pattern here. But if VH doesn't give us a quality post, I'm probably putting my vote back on him due to a lack of reason to go after anyone else right now.

[Peers]

I haven't had internet access since my last post, and am now rereading the game. I will post my list of suspicions in a few hours.

Define "a few hours."

'A Few' is generally cosnidered to be 3-4.

'A Couple' is 2, 'A few' is 3-4', 'a bunch' is 5+.

Given that it's been 6, I guess i should have just said "later".

[Peers]

I define "a few hours" as up to 6 hours.

Avinyl's List of Suspicions

1. Peers
Voted me for a weak reason
Trying to limit our options of Green Day's kill to Me and Cynic Clinic
General feeling that he is scum

1) A weak reason?

Reason: He claims ChronX voted without a reason in post 34, when post 34 clearly states his reason for voting. He's either a) not paying attention to posts, which is dangerous for the town, or b) he's paying attention but trying to twist our perceptions, which can't possibly have a benign reason behind it.

Doesn't seem like a weak reason to me.

2) We've been over this. I wasn't trying to limit anyone options. I was saying what options I saw, and asked if there was "someone else". I wanted to know if we were going ot put effort into getting more info out of you guys, a roleclaim, anything to help us out. You make it sound like I said "We need to lynch one of these two, right now, and nobody else" which I most certainly did not come close to saying.

3) ... well, feeling's mutual.

Vote: Avinyl

... and you took more than six hours, too!

[Peers]

Clockwork didn't do the 'where do we put our effort' post, that was me.

[Peers]

*sigh* C'mon, folks, don't make me suggest another random vote...

[Peers]

Mod: Deadline?

Mod: I have not yet set a deadline, because I have just sent out prods. If the activity does not bump up within 5 days or so, yes, I will set a deadline.

[Peers]

Peers:

If Gorrad were killed (dayvigged, modkilled, whatever) as town

right now

, who would you find most likely to be his scumbuddy? Why?

Nobody. Town doesn't have scumbuddies.

[Peers]

[quote="Glork"]Argh, I meant 'as scum.' [/quote

Okay, then my answer is "I don't know." There's a reason I'm not currently votingg for him, and that is a) I don't have reason to think he's scum and b) I have no idea who his partner would be. With my current vote, I'm slightly more sure of a).

[Peers]

Even if the two replacements vote, we're still at least one vote away. We need some more thought/action from those who haven't voted, I think.

[Peers]

... WTF?

[Peers]

We are? Oh we ARE! It's quick to me, and that's what I've felt. If I had been in as long as y'all, I'd probably not have voted there, and would have sympathised with how long y'all have played. But, to me, it's a new game.

In that case, I'd appreciate an unvote...

[Peers]

Much obliged! I really do prefer not ot voted for unless I do something to deserve it first.

[Peers]

Wow, that's.... in-depth. I find myself agreeing with most of it, but I have one question.

You list both ChronX and Avinyl on your scumlist. Avinyl has two votes on him already, ChronX has none, so you vote for... one of the two on your list who have no votes.

Given that it will be harder to lynch ChronX than Avinyl, why vote the way you did?

[Peers]

Oman: A post earlier in the game suggested that 'standard' scum setups for a 12-person game are 2 pairs of 2 scum, or 1 set of 3 scum and an SK. Does your thinking change any if you consider there may not be a 'scumpair' but a 'scumtrio'?

[Peers]

Secondly, standard setups that I've found are two mafia and an SK, or three mafia.

I think there is three mafia in this game, maybe a vig/SK, but I have nothing to base it on.

Also, you're forgetting we already have one mafia dead.

... how the heck did I forget that? I must be in too many games, I'm losing track of things.

So we have one dead Mafia, and we're thinking we have two more live ones and an SK or lucky/insightful vig, or one more live mafia and a definite SK/not-a-vig, or we've got one live mafia from that family and two live mafia from another family who just happened ot hit the first family.

Oman's vote is personal. Look at his sig. He doesn't play the game right, he tries to lynch people he doesn't like.

That's sort of the reason I was asking him; some people put those in their sigs as a joke, others act on them, I wanted to know which he was.

[Peers]

*sigh*

I'm declaring myself neutral in the whole ChronX/ Clockwork /Oman crossfire thing, at least until more evidence surfaces to point to one of them. All too often townies set sights on townies early on, and I don't want that to happen in this game.

[Peers]

Peers and Gorrad, I would like you to take a look and post a stance. If that stance is that we're all town or all scum I'm happy to hear it, I just want a feel from you.

Well, y'all are annoyin', Ah'll give yah tha' much ri' now...

... erm, lemme drop the accent.

I see it as "Everyone's town arguing over stupid little piddling things because they can't find any real evidence of scum, so they're trying to make people trip up and are going after people who aren't scum."

I think you all need to step back, take a day off the thread, re-read it and maybe you'll see where I'm coming from... you're taking little things and blowing them way out of proportion.

[Peers]

At this point? No idea.

[Peers]

If you had to say someone, who would it be.

Wel, if I had to... and I've got nothing to back this up beyond gut feelings at this point... CDB or Cynic.

[Peers]

Are we ready for a mass prodding here soon? I mean... where is everyone?

[Peers]

I'd lynch Gorrad over Avinyl.

And apparently you'd lynch clockwork over Gorrad. Could you tell us your reasoning in that chain?

[Peers]

@mod: Please replace me in this game

I am not going to participate in games on this site anymore due to its tolerance of open flaming and open cross gaming by Team Asshat and probably others since they get away with it.

... and yet you've participated in other games since posting this. If you've changed your mind, please say so so we don't stall out looking for a replacement.

[Peers]

Well, if ChronX hadn't left, that'd be lynch. As is, it's just L-1.

[Peers]

Why is it every game I'm in right now seems to be heading for Abandonville?

[Peers]

Glork: No, but you're slowly reaching into the #2 Scummy spot. You fail to realize we're not lynching Avynil for his not-here-edness, but for things he did before he was not-here. CDB failed to be as scummy before he became not-here, yet you seem to think that we should be on him instead, without giving a reason why.

Grasping at straws is never the best way to find the needle in the haystack, man. Sometimes, you just spread hay around.

[Peers]

2) I want to see your list of suspicions. If you are protown, you have

NOTHING

to lose by sharing your thoughts. The only reason to hide that information is if you're a scumbag who doesn't want attention to move from the guy you are gunning for. List now, or my vote goes straight to you, and it doesn't move.

Oh no, rhetoric followed by a threat! You ever think that maybe I'm not hiding anything, I just don't actually -have- a list? Not everyone thinks in lists.

You want a list? Fine.

Most Scummy
--Avynil -- for reasons given when I voted.
--Glork -- For constantly fishing for other people's theories so he can put together the one that will make him the least suspicious, because other people support it.
Semi-scummy
Even Scum/Town Line
--Everyone else
Semi-Town
Most Town

Happy? Or are you going to vote me and not move because I refuse to grasp at straws?

[Peers]

I realize you may have a great track record, but your posts in the last few pages paint a portrait of someone who is very much trying to get votes off of Avinyl, including saying you'd vote for Gorrad before Avinyl, and voting for someone simply because they followed along with two other people.

You have also have flat-out said to ChronX that if there is more than one scummy player, you should force people to choose between them and not simply go after the easiest lynch. This is just plain stupid and looks like an easy way to set up a no-lynch situation by dividing the town while the scum laugh.

We do not enough enough information to make a case about every single player. Some players it's due to being inactive, some it's due to not doing anything worth making a case out of. You, however, continue to appear desperate to create a case out of anything to pull votes away from Avinyl.

I think Avinyl is scum. My job, as town, is to lynch him. And I will not be goaded into an OMGUS war with you. My vote stays on Avinyl, and I hope nobody else gets distracted by your tactics.

[Peers]

And I will not be goaded into an OMGUS war with you. My vote stays on Avinyl, and I hope nobody else gets distracted by your tactics.

Uh.

If you think I'm scum protecting Avinyl as scum, you wouldn't have any reservations about getting me lynched.

There are ten people alive in this game right now. If we get five votes on Avinyl and five votes on you, then we wind up with a no-lynch at deadline.

I have no reservations about you getting lynched. But it's stupid to give up L-1 on a scum in the hopes of maybe, possibly, getting a lynch on another scum.

[Peers]

(EDIT: Actually, here....)

Isn't there a no-edits rules?

[Peers]

Really? I... did not know that. I'd never even tried, so I didn't know that wasn't available. Thanks for the info.

[Peers]

But when a player accuses me of being scummy for hunting for information, I probe to see if they're fogging for a bad attack (as I feel Peers is). Peers' reasponse

was

misrepresentative of others' intent, which is definitely a scumtell in my book. Peers' refusal to give and/or look for information is a *BIG* scumtell for me, because I believe that protown players always have incentive to contribute more to the game/discussion.

Put that way, I do see where you're coming from. However, I don't see this as a bad attack -- I see it as the best attack we have. It may look bad to you, but I feel it's our best choice. And once again... if there was information there? I'd give it. But I've looked. I find nothing to make a case against anyone else that's better than the one against Avinyl... or, heck, even really existant at this point. You're right, pro-town players have an incentive to contribute more. But there comes a point when the only 'more' there is to contribute simply dilutes the waters and isn't worth contributing. We've hit that point.

If you disagree with my philosophies or style, we can bring it up after the game. But that alone shouldn't cloud your judgment. Clockwork, if you think I'm scum, present a case that's relevatnt to the game. But don't toss your vote around because I'm bossy.

I still have you listed as my #2 scum... but I am beginning to rethink how much of it is "acting scummy" and how much is "actually acting ad having it stand out among everyone else". You're drawing way too much attention to yourself, and that's risky in a game where you don't know if there's a doc to protect you. I may not like your playstyle, but you've got guts, I'll give you that.

[Peers]

glork told me to replace and put you kids in line

Not instilling me with a sense of unbiasedness here, man.

[Peers]

Not really... it just provides different information.

For instance, nobody is really trying to get more votes for Avynil. So that implies that, scum or town, there isn't a strong case against him. There's also not a lot of vocal opposition to his votes, the exception being Glork. That means if Avynil comes up scum, he should be investigated/vigged next. However, if Avynil is town, then Glork's the sole voice of reason among all of this and should be protected.

Really, we cant' get any other infromation unless we miraculously have three more votes for Avynil, in which case, we debate about who hammered... the guy with vote #6, or the guy with vote #3.

[Peers]

This is almost guaranteed to be a mislynch.
(...)
It'd be interesting to see if Avinyl *is* scum after all of this. I guess Quags should claim right about now, even though he's not even had a chance to do anything yet.

Oddly enough, we both agree on this one... it almost feels like someone decided to save the absent Avinyl's butt with a last-minute bandwagon on Quag to me, but I'll be glad to be proven wrong. I just don't think it'll happen -- I'm not going to hammer on a bandwagon when the case just doesn't seem right to me.

[Peers]

Wow. Even after he gets unvoted, he keeps with an OMGUS against Oman. That's impressive dedication. Heck, i may have to re-read White/Oman's posts ot see if I can see where he's coming from.

[Peers]

The Quag makes an excellent point. However, the point doesn't neccessarily call Oman scum, it calls him a poor townie; but looking at the posts and some of the reactions, it almost feels to me as if he's trying to coerce people into playing his way, or more specificly, along with him. Now, trying to reason with people isn't a scumtell, but he seems a little more... forceful, than he needs to be.

unvote

Vote: oman

.

[Peers]

So... where do we put our effort? Cynic Clinic, Avinyl, or somewhere else?

Now Peers has defended against this post atleast 3 times in the thread. But here's my question - When you ask 'Shall we concentrate on X,Y or someone else?' you're essentially saying you consider X and Y to be the most suspicious of all the players .. So you did not find anything suspicious about the person who hammered?

The two names I mentioned were for specific reasons. Avinyl because be had actually voted for Green Day (which could be a scum voting his partner early on when there was no chance of a lynch in order to look more innocent later on if he was revealed to be scum), and Cynic Clinic because Avinyl tried to connect CC to Green Day's death. I wanted to know if we thought Avinyl was acting suspicious, if he was thinking correctly, or if he should just be ignored.

And no, I don't find anything suspicious about the person who hammered, because originality was being a Jackass Townie and was goading people I don't think hammering him was particularly scummy at all, especially since the scum had no way of knowing he was a roleblocker. If it had happened day 2, I'd wonder about scum involvement and some sort of power-role cop, but on day 1? It was random, influenced by jerkiness.

[Peers]

Mod: I've delayed it long enough; searching for replacements for Cynic Clinic and Avinyl. The deadline will probably not be extended, however.

And I find it interesting that one scum dies Night 1, and now the two people that I asked if we should consider 'putting our effort into them' have both gone inactive and need replacing. Maybe I was on to something?

[Peers]

It's interesting because it pings that little part in the back of my brain that say "Hey, interesting."

Why, I don't know. I truly doubt they're both Green Day's scumbuddies and I saw through their fiendishly clever plan... I'm just not that good or that lucky. But it's still interesting to me.

[Peers]

Depends. Do I need to point how how desperate it is to point out someone else's OMGUS against you?

[Peers]

That's why a lot of people don't want to replace into games anymore.

[Peers]

Quag is becoming less scum to me, OR more scummy

Explain this to me.

OR != or, OR== October Raven

[Peers]

MOD: Does no lynch occur if a consensus is not reached?

Also, I've already stated my good case on Oman. If you wish to see it again please let me know.

Rule Six on the first page:

If the discussion is lagging, I may set a deadline. Only half the normal amount of votes will be required to lynch at deadline, rounded up (If multiple players are at over half of the votes, the player that has the highest total, or has reached that total first will be lynched).

[Peers]

Well, that was an all-around sucky day and night.

We are -so- screwed.

[Peers]

Vote: CDB

Reasoning: We suspect we have two scum and an SK left. CDB hasn't posted anything of substance for over a month and may have flaked on this game; last night, either the doc stopped one death before he was killed, or he didn't stop a death... because the SK wasn't paying attention to the game anymore and never sent in a kill. Which would mean CDB is the most likely SK, as he was just active enough during the first day and night to not be lurking, but enough to stay under the radar, but then dropped out of sight.

It's just a guess, but it's the strongest idea I've gotten so far. I'm going to look at voting patterns when I get time, maybe I'll find something better than this.

[Peers]

True. And doc/cop/vig is pretty much considered 'classical'... so that could be the case. But if so, then the game seems rather unbalanced towards the town unless the scumgroup was four people; in which case, we could be in LILO already.

[Peers]

I'd like ot know Quag's reaction to what's happened... especially since oman was saying he thought Quag was town.

Also, I'd avoid putting two votes on anyone. If there -is- three scum out there, two votes on a townie is a mslynch.

[Peers]

*why* oman didn't claim is beyond me. Otherwise, I was just pissed off. I was so confident that he was scum. My guess is that he didn't save himself because he had a guilty result on me. So why didn't he claim so?

Vote Gorrad

.... that was a slip, yes? Did you just say the cop had a guilty result on you?

[Peers]

But the time limit for sending in N2 actions was 72 hours; the mod came back with results in ~22 hours. If there

is

an SK, he must have responded or else D3 wouldn't have started until Nov. 17th.

Mod:

ChannelDelibird hasn't been replaced despite having been inactive here since Oct. 27th. Does that mean he's been picking up prods?

Oooo, good catch...

Unvote

pending the results of the answer to that question.

[Peers]

It's also possible that Glork was killed simply because he had a rep as a scum-hunter -- for the scum, taking out a power role was secondary to taking out the guy they knew would be dangerous, and no thought was given to who it would frame or not.

... y'know, I just realized how annoying it is to want evidence on someone, and realize the cop is dead. Sunnova... okay, why do people suspect Quag again?

[Peers]

Vote: WaterboyWaldo

for a) not giving a reason for his vote and b) not having posted a whole lot since he showed up.

[Peers]

Well, I'll tell you right now I'm not scum, so I'm not part of any scumpair. Why would I warn people about LILO and the possibility of a quicklynch by scum (488/490) if I was scum? I'm trying to make sure the town wins here.

[Peers]

Peer's Review Of Day Three So Far, One Line Per Post.

--Peers: We're Screwed.
--The Dead: Go Town.
--Ooba: no reason to change my vote. Vote Quag.
--Peers: CDB is lurking but hasn't been replaced and could be the SK. Vote CDB.
--ooba: Maybe we have a vig instead of an SK.
--Peers: Good point. But for balance issues, wouldn't we have four scum then? We would be in LILO then.
--Gorrad: I'm worried about a mislynch. Vote Quag.
--Peers: Um, two votes on someone woudl let three scum quicklynch.
--Gorrad: Oops. Unvote.
--Quag: WTF? Why didn't Oman claim? Was it becasue he thought I was guilty? Vote: Gorrad.
--Peers: ... wTF? You're guilty?
--Clockwork: I think he meant not-guilty. But then, why did he vote for you?
--Quag: I have no idea.
--Clock: The SK (if there is one) isn't lurking -- the night took 22 hours. CDB probably isn't it.
--Waterboy: I don't care about this game.
--Peers: Good catch, Clock. Unvote.
--October: Why was Glork targetted? Glork wanted Clock, waterboy, or Peers lynched. WIFOM tho. FoS: Quag.
--October: I'm a bit fuzzy on math.
--Peers: Doesn't Glork have a 'best scum hunter' award or something? Gee, why would scum want him dead?
--Waterboy: Vote: Quag.
--Quag: Waterboy and Gorrad are scum!
--Quag: Still no idea why Oman didn't vote for me. Isn't cop more valuable than whatever I am?
--MOD: CDB being replaced.
--MOD: by Vampyrusddg
--MOD: Votecount (Quag 2, Gorrad 1)
--Peers: Vote: Waterboy, 'cause he voted without giving a reason and has been lurking.
--Gorrad: Unvote, having two votes on someone is risky. But, dude, why do you think those two are scum?
--Waterboy: He's paranoid.
--Vampyrus: Hi.
--ooba: Quag, oman didn't know you were innocent; why would he try to make you claim?
--October: Vote: Quag, he's grasping at straws
--Quag: OMG, you're bandwagoning me!
--Vampyrus: Gorrad and Peers are suspicous, but not both scum. Either Quag is scum, or there's scum already voting for him. So one of Peers/Gorrad and one of Quag/Ooba/Water.
--ooba: I think it's Peers/Quag. Unvote to be safe.
--Peers. I'm not scum. I warned people about a possible LILO and quicklynch -- that'd hurt the scum's chances.
--Waterboy: Sorry, my comp crashed and I lost my notes about this game I no longer care about. I thoguth Quag was scummy, but don't remember why.
--Gorrad: October, please unvote. Vamp, can you explain your suspiscions? You don't have a case.
--Vampyrus: That's why I haven't voted yet, duh. I'm working on it. My math might be fuzzy. Maybe it's not LYLO, but it's best to be safe.
--October: I'd unvote, but Quag is acting way too scummy towards everyone.
--Quag: I'm acting differently about Gorrad.
--Gorrad: Yes, but two votes is dangerous, unless someone already voting is scum... or there's only two scum.
--October: Or unless he's scum, which I note you didn't mention. FoS: Gorrad

Quick summary:
Quag is really playing up the "Why did the cop save my life? I must be innocent" angle, followed by "anyone voting me is suspicious" angle.
Peers is playing the paranoia-LYLO angle. Gorrad, Quag, and most others are going along with it.
Waterboy is playing the "I'm playing, but don't really care" angle.


Conclusions:
ooba and clockwork are very townish. Quag is very scummy, but may be paranoid-townie. Peers is paranoid. Waterboy is scummy, but may just not care.

Theory: I was wrong. We're not in LYLO. There's 8 of us. We suspect 2 scum remaining/SK or 3 scum remaining/vig. If the game is 2 scum/SK, then we are not in LYLO; a mislynch, scum-kills-townie, SK-kills-townie would bring us down to 6, and -then- it would be LYLO. If the game is 3 scum/vig, then we are in LYLO only if we lynch the vig; if we do, scum kill someone else, 3 scum, 3 town, game over. If we lynch a non-vig townie, then the vig miskills another townie (his track record so far has sucked) and scum kill a townie, 3 scum, 2 town, game over.

If we're dealing with 2 scum/SK, then we have a very small mislynch protection. If we're dealing with three and a really bad vig, then we're in trouble and the game relies on us not lynching the vig and him picking the right target.

MOD QUESTION:

If scum target a vig, and the vig targets the scum, do both kills happen, or only one? If only one, which one? how do you handle that for this game?

Depending on the answer to that question, we may be best off if the vig claims; we can then decide who to lynch and who to have him try and kill (since his internal scumdar sucks). Yes, scum will kill the vig that night, but we'll have a shot at getting two scum, leaving 1 scum 4 townies -- good odds. If our choices for lynch and vig target are both wrong, then we lose. If we get 1 and 1, then we're at 2 scum, 3 townies, LYLO, which is more-or-less where we are already. Or, if the vig doesn't claim, we know we're dealing with an SK.

Unless a scumkill on the vig stops the vig from killing, in which case the vig needs to keep his head down and this brilliant but foolhardy plan is worthless.

[Peers]

Okay, good. So... I propose we ask the vig to claim. We can then work together to pick two targets: One to lynch, one to have the vig kill since he hasn't gotten lucky since Day One. We'll lose our vig, but we've got a much better chance of getting one, hopefully two scum.

And if there's no vig, we know we're dealing with 2 scum and an SK.

Anyone opposed?

[Peers]

That could work, but why do you now think we aren't in LYLO? I'm willing to go along with it if we aren't, but I didn't really see any reasoning why we wouldn't be. I might just not have seen it, I'm not saying it's not there.

Theory: I was wrong. We're not in LYLO. There's 8 of us. We suspect 2 scum remaining/SK or 3 scum remaining/vig. If the game is 2 scum/SK, then we are not in LYLO; a mislynch, scum-kills-townie, SK-kills-townie would bring us down to 6, and -then- it would be LYLO. If the game is 3 scum/vig, then we are in LYLO only if we lynch the vig; if we do, scum kill someone else, 3 scum, 3 town, game over. If we lynch a non-vig townie, then the vig miskills another townie (his track record so far has sucked) and scum kill a townie, 3 scum, 2 town, game over.

We're not in LYLO if there's only two scum and an SK; if there's three scum and a vig, we're in LYLO. That's the other thing asking for a vig claim could do; tell us if we're actually in LYLO or not. If there's no vig, then there's an SK (or two scum groups, now that I think about it... which would put us in LYLO again... nevermind)

[Peers]

There's 8 alive. We're not in LYLO.

As I spelled out earlier, if three of us are scum, and there is a vigilante, then we are in LYLO... we lynch a townie, scum kills a townie, vig kills a townie, it's 3 vs 2 and we lose. If there's no vig and two groups of two scum, same deal.

[Peers]

I'm still worried about Quag's whole "Why didn't the cop save me, maybe he knew I was innocent, but he voted for me, so... but he saved me ! He must have had a reason!" bit.

[Peers]

I know this is risky, but I've got a hunch he's not going to get quickbussed...

vote: Quag

[Peers]

And yet he's not lynched yet. What does that tell us?

[Peers]

Bah. Almost made it. Go Team... wait, that was me...

[Peers]

Nice game, Scum! Only one of you died, and to be honest, that was completely at random... I was looking for someone who could be blamed on multiple people in an attempt to have suspects other than me be brought up.

So did I get targetted because I apparently knew too much?

(Pity... one more day, and I had a shot... not bad for my first game as SK...)

[Peers]

I'm willing to call this the most fun game I've had on here so far. Xdammo, lemme know when you're modding another one.