Mini Normal 1854: Game Over

[Vedith]

Hello - At work, catch up later.

[Vedith]

I still haven't caught up, due to the day and all.
Tomorrow work shall be done

[Vedith]

414

Terrible post.
This entire post is based on someone's experience, which cannot be disproven anyway. You agree that neither align benefits from actually lying, so why the hard focus here, Haraki?

[Vedith]

Though shall not prod me, Mod!
Prod received though!

[Vedith]

You should get an Avatar Creeps, it's annoying.

[Vedith]

It helps hammer scum. I use lack of existence as a tool. Often

Oh great!
Explain.

[Vedith]

Rarely people miss my posts. As a result they vote and hammer. If i believe someone to be town I will make a very long post to give existence. If not then I have a line or two then a vote.

I just read this as "I have no avatar to try and lay low"

[Vedith]

You'll need to explain that Hariki read.
Do you think scum diverted the wagon or town got side tracked?

[Vedith]

I think town got sidetracked

So you think Haraki is scum, but his counter wagon has nothing to do with his buddies, or...?

[Vedith]

Well the same 2 who voted fitz with me voted creeps also so I think that rules out possible budddies don't ya think? I get why people are voting creeps, but again gut says he's probably town. I don't see scum playing blatantly scummy like that.

No, I don't think that rules out buddies.
Why is Creeps probably town for you? You need to explain that further.

Also waiting for your read on Hiraki to be explained more.

[Vedith]

Creeps isn't playing like how I expect scum to play. He's saying scummy things and doesn't care. I almost never see scum do that.

Hiraki on the other hand seems to be playing carefully. Saying just enough to stay relevant while not really saying anything relevant. Plus I thought it was odd hiraki outlined his reads on basically everyone but him and tvd. Hiraki' reaction to fitz just doesn't seem natural to me either. Kind of hard to explain that last one.

Creeps is playing scum, but not how you expect scum to play?
So you expect scum to play town.
You also

almost

never see scum play like that, meaning that you still do?

Hiraki is playing how town should play, but how scum would play? Or did I mis understand this part?

You can probably see why I don't follow you here, right?

[Vedith]

You are misunderstanding. Plus I don't care if you follow me or not.

Then help me understand, because that's how I read it.
You should care if I follow, if you actually think he's scum.

[Vedith]

creeps is saying stuff that on the surface looks scummy to most people (not me personally but to others) but I don't see anything that has scum intent. He comes off as just a bad player who doesn't really care how he is perceived. Typically scum are going to care how they are perceived. Scum need to blend in and look townish

I mean, don't get me wrong, you're probably right here and normally (even more so day 1) the "scummy" plays turn out to be town. This doesn't mean that pressure shouldn't be applied.

that's what I feel hiraki is actually doing. He isn't really doing much though

Not sure what to say about this. I think you're wrong, but wrong isn't scummy.

I don't know if I can explain it any better so your simple mind can understand and tbh I am not going to waste my time. It's a gut feel kind of thing.

How do you expect to play Mafia if you can't explain, or even put the effort into people seeing what you see?
This is just you being frustrated town imo, and I don't doubt that you believe your gut and there probably is another reason to it which you're just getting flustered to explain because you think I'm only trying to shoot down your case, but I'm actually looking for a valid reason to it.

and no I don't care if you follow me or not. 2 and a half days left, the wagon on my top scum read fell apart due to a poor player being PL'd by 2 more poor players which leaves a scum read and a PL as the biggest wagons, so I joined the wagon on one of my scum reads.

Again, you should care, I'm willing to discuss over it.
Creeps won't be getting PL, as PL is for fuccbois. Anyone on his wagon not pushing it with reason will be shown as scum.
We have plenty of time to move votes back or around.

Look at that wagon on creeps - deer is kind of meh, hiraki I am scum reading, and the last 2 are basically policy lynch votes. that's a bad wagon. You are free to make up your own mind where you vote though. I have made my decision.

I'm not saying it's a good wagon. But I'm not seeing Hiraki as a good wagon.
Suggest someone else to lynch, Hiraki isn't the only scum for you, right?

@Creeps wagon - Give your reasons for voting Creeps.

[Vedith]

Can you tag the post of the Fitz case?
Also, I'm not saying I disagree end of...

The reason I'm talking to you is because you are currently playing in the game and posting. I'm not worried about the Creeps wagon yet, and there is a lot of time still.
I don't think it's bad to discuss with you though while I check others.

I'll take a look at Fitz and TVD then
@Ari - Sell me on Fitz

[Vedith]

Weekend stuff and all. I normally catch up during the week.
If this is your attitude the entire time, I can see why people didn't put time in to listen to you or take you seriously.

I'll give those 2 a proper look with your notes though and see.

[Vedith]

Yeah I don't like Fritz in the posts to you there (from the responses). He's clearly trying to twist things to just throw shade.
I'm at my PC tonight and I'm going to post more on this tonight.

[Vedith]

My reasons for voting Creeps are that if he is scum he is using poor play as a smokescreen, and if he is town he is giving power to scum, especially by distrusting the confirmed masons.

That's a stupid reason.
If he's town, you're giving scum power by voting him.
Maybe I don't understand you here?

Thoughts on Fritz / Hariki?

[Vedith]

OMFG someone vig TF or fitz tonight so the wall posts will stop.

Why do you always try to look scummy Gamma?
Stop being dreadful.

Opinion on Fritz and TwoFace?

TwoFace looks town as shit so the fact you want him vigged is an alert.

[Vedith]

It was a joke. I just want them to stop the constant back and forth wall posting.

Fritz and TF opinion?

[Vedith]

It's not just policy: I believe Creeps has a chance of flipping scum

Right, I'm home.
Anyone has a 'chance' of flipping scum though.

[Vedith]

VOTE: havingfitz

I haven't had a chance to raise the case yet, it will come.
Had to focus on priority onsite.

[Vedith]

Still not seeing hiraki as scum but idk

Seriously...?

[Vedith]

Feel free to give me another slot.

[Vedith]

I'm here.

Also, ignoring Math isn't a wise move., unless he's scum of course.
Regardless he'll put more in for town than most players here so yeah, don't do that.

[Vedith]

Probably going to vote creeps. Isoing now

This.is probably scum

[Vedith]

We really need better wagons than Creeps and Hiraki.
I'm not voting either today.

[Vedith]

Why is hiraki a bad wagon?

Because I don't agree that he's scum...

[Vedith]

Except he's done none of that. All he's done is tunnel and try to enforce his theories about mafia on others.

That's town Math.

[Vedith]

You assume he's wrong here btw, can you explain why?

[Vedith]

This is mostly for twiszted slot. Looking at twiszted content, it's disgustingly bad. Vedith has idled and not been particularly townie himself, so while his content is more of a null read twiszteds was enough to make him likely scum.

Sit down, we're getting scum Fritz.
Not Creeps not math not Hraki but Fritz.

[Vedith]

Fritz IMHO is town Vedith.

How so?

[Vedith]

@Vedith http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p8574979

Those reads are fake as shit.

[Vedith]

He just calls anyone disagreeing with him as scum.
Look at his list of 4 scum... "Only scum vote me" attitude.

Look at the scum then to the reasons, his reasons are mixed but his only main focus on people being scum is for doubting / questioning the masons.

[Vedith]

Okay then, MathBlade seems determined to tunnel me.

Will be interesting to see if Fritz changes he vote on you if you get more votes.

VOTE: Gamma

tunnel vedith instead!

Stop trying to coast the game with a fake read.
Tell me your thoughts on Fritz, Math, Ari and Gamma.

[Vedith]

....Man you sure do like cod fish don't you?

He's more of a sausage man...

Lynch Fritz, easy game easy money.

[Vedith]

It's just about being part of something great, Ari!

[Vedith]

A Scum Jailkeeper?

Or fake claim.

[Vedith]

"If I'm still alive in the morning" doesn't seem like something a PR who was worried about getting lynched would say.

[Vedith]

"If I'm still alive in the morning" doesn't seem like something a PR who was worried about getting lynched would say.

I agree with this though.

"I agree with this"
Changes vote.

[Vedith]

I forgot I wasn't on Fritz.
VOTE: Fritz

[Vedith]

"I agree with this"
Changes vote.

You don't lynch a claimed pr day 1 ever

I do.
It's bullshit and he's scum.

[Vedith]

Lynch Fritz TwoFace and I might not lynch you tomorrow.

[Vedith]

:<

[Vedith]

I might take your avi...

[Vedith]

Fritz isn't jailer though, TwoFace.

[Vedith]

Weekend stuff, tomorrow.

[Vedith]

If scum bussed i would bet vedith but nothing to back that up currently

I had him as scum all day yesterday.
This post just reads as "Lets push else where to divert attention from me not voting there."

VOTE: Frank
GTFO.

TwoFace is confirm town for me and Math is a smart enough player to see that as well. Scum more than likely attacked TwoFace and Math protected there.

[Vedith]

Math was calling me scum plus we had 2 masons. No chance math protected me

I highly doubt that a Mason would be night 1 kill with the possibility of trackers/watchers etc.
Even more so with scum losing a member day 1.
The next towniest person was you by far.

[Vedith]

ved how was he the towniest by far?

Because he was pushing for Fritz from the start. He wasn't just trying to go with the flow trying to direct the lynch else where like you.
Anyone not town reading TwoFace needs to give a reason why.

Also, your "scum in Vedith / Haraki" comment is just a scum comment of "Lets lynch both because I know their alignment".

Tell me, why didn't you vote up Fritz?
What was town looking for him to not be worth lynching?

[Vedith]

I tend to agree with this. Math was blinded by stupidity. He either protected a mason and was killed or they just outright killed him cause they knew he was a pr.

I'd like to think scum tried to kill me though.

I suggest you read Math's previous games.
He looks into each game during the night and reviews players and actions from the flip result.

[Vedith]

Not going to do that. It doesn't matter at this point

Of course it matters who was the NK...
It's helps prevent a shit push from town later.

[Vedith]

*On

[Vedith]

it's impossible to know for sure though. we can't even make a real educated guess

From the amount I've played with Math, I'm making an educated guess.
Frank is highly likely as scum here.

[Vedith]

VOTE: Creeps
Hiraki is town.

[Vedith]

Yes he is.
Stop being arrogant here.

[Vedith]

Why did you out your role so quickly?
Why wouldn't you read your predecessor's ISO first?

He probably did read the ISO first.
17 posts isn't a lot to go through.

[Vedith]

Wait, why is Gamma a bad vote?

[Vedith]

you're vote on him day 1 was terrible, plus fitz was voting him for terrible reasons.

So he couldn't be buddy voting scum?
GTFO.

[Vedith]

I think this was mentioned day 1 but feels like it should be said again, this was not what fitz did in his reads list like not even remotely accurate.

It was accurate.
And what you are saying is that I was trying to convince Math onto Fritz while I'm buddy buddy with Fritz.
Nice 10/10 logic there.

Vote Creeps, get scum.
Easy game, easy money.

[Vedith]

Vote Creeps, Ari!

[Vedith]

Don't get me wrong, TwoFace is town, but he's not confirmed town at all (2 different things).

@TwoFace - Tell me what your opinion is of all the interaction between Creeps and Fritz day 1.

[Vedith]

@TwoFace - Let me ask again...
Tell me what your opinion is of all the

interaction between

Creeps

and

Fritz

day 1

I do not care if you think it was the 'counter' wagon. If it's a PL, it's not a counter wagon imo, and neither was Fritz pushing it. I want to know your view on how they reacted to each other.

[Vedith]

i'm not going to waste my time looking at their interactions right now, and I don't really remember them.

Considering it has an impact of the game, why are you not interested in looking into it?

[Vedith]

If I think creeps is town already, and I think the VCA points to confirming creeps is probably town. Why would I look into it further? why not look into people I am scum reading?

Because then you get tunneled vision and your reads never progress.
How do I mafia?

[Vedith]

I also really need you to explain this town read on hiraki at some point also.

I can't for reasons... Take that as you like but I can answer at a later date.

[Vedith]

It doesnt

Fitz/vedith does though

Oh yeah, run that one past me again.

[Vedith]

I can't for reasons... Take that as you like but I can answer at a later date.
Le End

Difference is mine is because of site rules... Dumbass

[Vedith]

and because you're scum... dumbass

[Vedith]

Yeah sorry town read off meta in general is bad. From an ongoing is terrible

It's not what you're thinking, but I'm not talking about it any further from here.
Lynching Hiraki is stupid and the only case on him is you didn't like his posting or some shit.

[Vedith]

btw if it wasnt obvious im not actually voting you specifically for that, ive scum read you for a while and am only voting you because other people are starting to as well

One thing you need to learn about me, kiddo, I don't care about votes on me.
Also, needing to explaining is not needed, but feel free to.

[Vedith]

I'm still waiting for you to do what I asked

Like I'm waiting for you to do as I asked?
2 way Street.

[Vedith]

Pretty sure I've responded to all your requests

Responding and doing it are 2 different things.

[Vedith]

Oh look, it's AJ!
I thought you died...

[Vedith]

Vedith refuses to explain his creeps town read. What's your thought on that?

Refuses?
This is discrediting, show where I out right refuse to do so.

[Vedith]

That isn't discrediting. It's the truth.

You've been asked to explain

You haven't explained.

That's refusal. You don't have to actually say the word.

You're fucking stupid.
You are pushing me for refusing when that's just your assumption, yet, when I've asked you to do something, you have actually refused and saif that you are not doing it.
I mean, what?

This town is going to be our downfall because it's full of idiots.

[Vedith]

I just really don't get it.
I ask you to look at the interaction between Creeps and Fritz and you say no, then say I am refusing to give you reasons to why he is scum even though I was trying to discuss over it...

You really are something.

GTFO.

[Vedith]

Stupid fucking town.

[Vedith]

Btw I did what you asked and went through the interactions and provided my response. Yet you still refuse to explain.

So in you're next post please explain this connection that I'm apparently missing.

Btw. Don't call me stupid again.

No, you said that Creeps was the counter wagon to Fritz, you didn't discuss about their interactions.
Creeps probably stopped posting because his buddy is dead and I'm pushing him.
Fritz was trying to push away from the Creeps wagon, why? Because Creeps is probably of more value than Fritz was. If you actually tried to look at the game and progress it you would see, instead you are being arrogant on just trying to lynch Hiraki for shit reasons.
I get that you're play is terrible and just a pile of shit but you need to sort this out.

I'll reframe from calling you stupid, as it's your play that's actually stupid, probably not you.

Regardless, keep up the 10/10 work, you're really gooooooooooooood.

[Vedith]

I already did this dude. Learn to fucking read

What post did you explain your opinion about Fritz/Creeps interaction on day 1 then?

[Vedith]

I already did this dude. Learn to fucking read

What post did you explain your opinion about Fritz/Creeps interaction on day 1 then?

1373

Okay, I actually missed this post.
So first of all, you say you see nothing between them. Considering that Creeps was his counter wagon, you don't think that's odd at all? Fritz was scum, and his counter wagon didn't appeal to him.

Creeps: Not a lot of posts (bad). Early push for scum hunting
(good). Early Eric vote was valid (based on Eric's bad Post
140 (ffr). Some impressive irony. = weak
town lean

Pay attention...I provided comment on Creeps already. Hit the #number link next in the isolation parentheses and do a search on Creeps.

I hate pushing claims before they are necessary. Why potentially out a PR if not necessary?

More Gamma votes please.

My case was before his pushes on Creeps to claim so no. Convincing/forcing LUV to out you was however a factor in suspecting him.

As scum he's just leaving himself to get lynched and trying to push away from Creeps, his town read?
He doesn't want Creeps to claim etc etc.
Now, what suggests that Fritz/Hiraki are a scum team from their interactions/posts about each other?

[Vedith]

>>> says I didn't respond today him so he won't respond to me
>>>ignores my response to him
>>> doesn't respond to my request
>>> acts like I didn't respond to him
>>>has the audacity to call me stupid.

Gtfoh. If you're town never play with me again. But you're probably not town so...

I missed 1 post from you, considering you were telling me not to speak to you this game and saying that you were not going to look at their interaction, you really can't take the high horse.
Your play is still stupid. This can't be argued. Your play is complete shit, and you should feel bad.

The "never play with me again" card is just from a high amount of salt, because you know I'm right and too proud to admit it.

[Vedith]

Now, what suggests that Fritz/Hiraki are a scum team from their interactions/posts about each other?

Also, this is a serious request, it looks snarky, but it actually isn't.

[Vedith]

Sorry you can eat shit and hit the bricks. I'm not responding to you anymore

That's only because you can't give a better case on Hiraki over what I gave you on Creeps/Fritz).
I still think you're town, and I get it, you're lost this game but want to make a good impression on people...Just consider what I'm saying here about Creeps.

[Vedith]

There is no reason for Hiraki to be hammered.

FTFY

[Vedith]

@Vedith:

What's stopping Creeps and Hiraki from being partners?

It's pretty hard when Hiraki is town.
But I'm open to listen why...

[Vedith]

TwoFace is so salty.

[Vedith]

agree with this

Agrees with it but never thought about it like that...
Stupid play.

[Vedith]

Scum can't always just jump on the counter wagon lmao

Why would he rather the attention on him than to try for Creeps?
Scum can find it very easy to swap their opinion on someone because they go off on bull shit reads.
He didn't want Creeps to claim, as scum, if Creeps was town, he could have pushed for a claim there and got on with it. Scum gain nothing from town not claiming.

[Vedith]

dude please stop insulting me and my play

Insulting someone's play is a common thing here.

[Vedith]

You linked his posts referencing creeps last page. I don't think you could realistically pull off a vote on someone you've town read so visibly just because they're a counter wagon. Much more viable to whiteknight creeps while avoiding being lynched.

To use your own argument, however: why didn't he just vote hiraki?

Because he wasn't at threat on being lynched when Hiraki was at L3 (not L1, but L3).
You are not using my own argument at all, you are ingoring my main point.

[Vedith]

Guess you shouldn't play like scum if you're town.

...

[Vedith]

@Vedith:

What's stopping Creeps and Hiraki from being partners?

It's pretty hard when Hiraki is town.
But I'm open to listen why...

Why is Hiraki town?

Go away Gamma.
Read my iso if needed.

[Vedith]

If this is your attitude the entire time, I can see why people didn't put time in to listen to you or take you seriously.

[Vedith]

@Nacho - Probably there some where but thoughts on Deer ISO?
I couldn't see it so link it if needed.

[Vedith]

over the top fake AtE

xSoniaNevermindx replaces Creeps20

You're in for a treat.

[Vedith]

@Mod - V/LA until Sunday

[Vedith]

UNVOTE: Sonia - Reviewing later.