Mini Normal 1843 - Endgame

[CloudKicker]

@rask Me claiming only benefits scum, seriously or town if we massclaim for setup spec reads, theres literraly 0 town gain from me claiming here but to give me credibility, if i already have that credibility aka townread me, theres 0 incensitive for me to claim believe me

[Raskolnikov]

But cloud if you genuinely softed your role like you said than scum probably already know it.

[Raskolnikov]

which makes no sens since you asked me to get hammered a bunch of time, either way its pretty inconsistent with your earlier reads

White knighting here does make sense, although I think it's more that hoopla out of all people should know better.

[CloudKicker]

To be fair, i kinda softed my role not voluntarily as pr, not my actually role and the more we talk the less i become useful yknow

[CloudKicker]

which makes no sens since you asked me to get hammered a bunch of time, either way its pretty inconsistent with your earlier reads

White knighting here does make sense, although I think it's more that hoopla out of all people should know better.

What about, hoop is town and hes right ? Even if its suboptimal to let me ''not-claim'' hes still actually right on me and BV is in the wrong

[Hoopla]

But cloud if you genuinely softed your role like you said than scum probably already know it.

Yes, but that involves reading a lot of Cloud's posts again, and would scum really want to do that?

I tried to figure it out after he mentioned it and gave up pretty quickly.

[Hoopla]

Raskol, what's your read of Cloud right now?

[BlackVoid]

Hoopla has twice undermined the pro-town environment of this game. First she started encouraging this apples/oranges dichotomy. For a functioning town, you need people working together, not divided into their own camps because it makes it harder to get a lynch. Second, she bailed on stating intent to hammer after Cloud said he would claim if she did.

We shouldn't be having a conversation with people at L-1 explaining to them the benefits and pitfalls of claiming. By not making the process pretty much automatic, we created several pages of clutter and nonsense back and forth.

[CloudKicker]

BV whole last 2-3 pages and actions are based of mechanics, something he scumread me for defending sotty on, he also somewhat evades hoop questions about his actual reads on me, despite the my seemlingly anti-town behavior

[CloudKicker]

My gimmick reinforces all my previous reads imo, i hope clear can see that

[Hoopla]

Hoopla has twice undermined the pro-town environment of this game. First she started encouraging this apples/oranges dichotomy. For a functioning town, you need people working together, not divided into their own camps because it makes it harder to get a lynch. Second, she bailed on stating intent to hammer after Cloud said he would claim if she did.

We shouldn't be having a conversation with people at L-1 explaining to them the benefits and pitfalls of claiming. By not making the process pretty much automatic, we created several pages of clutter and nonsense back and forth.

The original purpose of Cloud claiming was because he was suspicious enough to lynch. I (and I hope others see it too) now realise he's highly likely town, so there's no point continuing the claiming process if there's no intention to lynch there any more.

You're just frustrated (or ignoring) that the way this information came to light was through Cloud's antitown behaviour.

[CloudKicker]

I will be back later on, please dont hammer me while im gone

[BlackVoid]

The original purpose of Cloud claiming was because he was suspicious enough to lynch. I (and I hope others see it too) now realise he's highly likely town, so there's no point continuing the claiming process if there's no intention to lynch there any more.

You're just frustrated (or ignoring) that the way this information came to light was through Cloud's antitown behaviour.

You are right that I'm frustrated. I think with his claim, I'll be able to get a much better picture of the gamestate. If his claim is believable, I can continue looking elsewhere without worry about connections to him. I can rest easy knowing that we're not letting a really cheeky scumbag slip away right in front of our noses by being blatantly pro-scum.

There's also the fact that he revels in trolling. I've genuinely invested myself into the game and put in my time to try to figure out the puzzle. He knows that him being purposefully obstructionist is just frustrating me. He's happy about that.

Even if you think he's more likely town, it would be much nicer if you could just make him claim to get it over with so I can refocus. Just help me out here. You claimed to be townreading me heavily after I derailed your lynch and went for Sotty7. Arona is clear. Jaack is clear and Jaack has been pretty tunneled in on Cloud.

[BlackVoid]

It's possible that he's town, yeah. But I also don't want to leave this half-done or just cave because he's trolling and refusing to claim. I'm just confused about why you are acting in a way that would cause more tension and frustration on both sides rather than just state intent again, get his claim, and move on.

Him concealing his role has very limited value and I don't think that value is higher than what we would get if we all have a concrete claim that we can analyze and also a sense a closure so we feel like we actually got something so we can reset and think about it.

[BlackVoid]

I guess I just dug my heels in because he's being overtly antagonistic about not claiming and the deeper you go down that hole of stubbornness, the harder it is to back out. But I still want to see this through and finish what we started.

[Hoopla]

BV; I do believe your town, and your anger at the situation has reinforced my town read on you, as I feel like it's genuine town anger and frustration. But you seem to be under the impression that I have the power to make him claim. It didn't work when he was at L-1 for ages and he has also ignored intent declarations. Do you really think any threats I make now (especially after he knows I think he's town) are going to convince him to claim?

It really feels like you're spiralling towards sunk cost fallacy territory and if you thought about it and tried to read him, you'd realise he's probably town. And if you do believe he's town, him full claiming doesn't really matter right now.

[BlackVoid]

You are right. He probably wouldn't have claimed even if you stated intent.

I'm coming around to thinking he might be town, yeah. But it's not a dichotomy. There's a chance he's scum and it could go either way. I'll think it over when I'm not pissed off at his refusal to claim.

[BlackVoid]

He'll claim if I have the hammer though.

[MariaR]

BV's tried to threaten throw shade at everyone when there not hammering cloud and then tries to backtrack early on about it holy shit can this guy eat rope yet?

[CloudKicker]

Hi, i see bv read me as lean town too, must be infuriating to kinda tr the dude antagonizing you

[CloudKicker]

Trolling is also a way to get reads btw winky wink

[BlackVoid]

@Hoopla, Creature - here's where you CAN do something. Vote Cloud and leave me with the hammer. The claim will come, trust me.

[CloudKicker]

also, hoop/bv interactions looks genuine even if i dont agree with all the content, again hoop/bv not a team

[CloudKicker]

@Hoopla, Creature - here's where you CAN do something. Vote Cloud and leave me with the hammer. The claim will come, trust me.

That woud be unfun tbh

[Creature]

@Hoopla, Creature - here's where you CAN do something. Vote Cloud and leave me with the hammer. The claim will come, trust me.

If you won't straight away hammer.