Mini Normal 1839 - Game Over!

[Foxbird]

Votecount 4.11

karnos

(2) - Nero Cain, PenguinPower

PenguinPower

(2) - Saru, Lowell

Nero Cain

(1) - ironstove

Not Voting

(3) - bji, MathBlade, karnos

With

8

players eligible to vote, it’s

5

to lynch!

Day 4 will end in

(expired on 2016-11-30 07:11:29).

Mod Notes:

None!

[ironstove]

I already indicated multiple times that the Nero scum is extremely likely if thors flip was scum, and I also don't like how easy this penguin wagon has picked up momentum while there is still strong, unexplained resistance to the Nero vote.

The moment I changed my vote to Nero, so many of you immediately jumped on glad to be a part of it. Why is penguin scum and why is Nero town? That's the question I ask those of you pushing to Lynch penguin today

[MathBlade]

Explain why claiming a pr is beneficial to town besides satisfying you own selfish reasons? And I will actually consider it if you can prove my hard claiming is a higher value play than not revealing my role. (You cant)

Because if you are conf town then you die and one of us into one scum hunting/MyLO with power of hammer.

[MathBlade]

With that said also explain as Lowell pointed out why as scum I would even bother with this move if everyone was already town reading me? (again, you can't)

Because reads change and how this flip happens will sure as fuck change my reads.

[PenguinPower]

I'm here. Briefly, since I'm running to a meeting (and am old). I agree with Math's 1550 in response to penguin's "why would I do this" post, for the reasons he stated. After that we can sort it out, but I'm relatively sure iron and saru are town. I lean town on bji, and I'm not quite seeing the nero case yet. My guess is the other is Karnos. I'll check in on this once more this evening if I can, and then tomorrow.

VOTE: penguin

Wait...you think both me and karnos are scum?

Seriously?

[PenguinPower]

Penguin might say "well maybe the scum just happened to kill arona by coincidence" to which I would reply...no.

^
Calling this out for endgame.

Either this is what happened, scum have an investigative PR, or what I mentioned earlier happened.

[ironstove]

Explain why claiming a pr is beneficial to town besides satisfying you own selfish reasons? And I will actually consider it if you can prove my hard claiming is a higher value play than not revealing my role. (You cant)

Because if you are conf town then you die and one of us into one scum hunting/MyLO with power of hammer.

The idea of you getting hammer and leading town doesn't seem like +EV

You town read the encryptor and forced us to no lynch, you haven't done anything this game for me to trust your decision making, sorry.

[ironstove]

Penguin might be town. I am more certain that Nero is scum than penguin being town, his reads could really be off this game.

Can we please vote on Nero? I'm still waiting for people to explain why penguin is a better Lynch than Nero, the evidence against Nero is stronger against him than penguin

[MathBlade]

Explain why claiming a pr is beneficial to town besides satisfying you own selfish reasons? And I will actually consider it if you can prove my hard claiming is a higher value play than not revealing my role. (You cant)

Because if you are conf town then you die and one of us into one scum hunting/MyLO with power of hammer.

The idea of you getting hammer and leading town doesn't seem like +EV

You town read the encryptor and forced us to no lynch, you haven't done anything this game for me to trust your decision making, sorry.

I made ONE mistake so far. I blatantly admitted it. I did not force us to no lynch I explained MY opinion. If anything Lowell did by not hammering when he said he would. There were a lot of people who didn't vote there. I refuse to be your personal punching bag because you are pissed that the conf townie doesn't agree with you.

Letting scum control the hammer is sure a hell of a lot more -EV. Let's assume I was dumb. There is a chance with you leaving your last will I become "not dumb". You also said you had to die for your power to activate I would love to test that. If you are vengeful then you can show off the reason for your extreme arrogance and take out a scum.

You say I haven't done anything to trust decision making while you have said so many people are definitively scum and then chastised, yelled at, insulted, or just berated people rather than explaining points.

You have claimed something no review board in their right mind would approve and then expect me to worship your reads? To just townread you?

A confirmed town in you or myself controlling the hammer is a hell of a lot more powerful than a vengeful or any other negative utility (as described earlier) PR because it forces scum to vote first.

Scum win games by hammering in MyLO or LyLO. It is one of their biggest tools

By you and I leaving last wills considering every valid combo

AND being confirmed

we take that tool from scum.

I am trying to work with you but you are being impossible. The smart play is to protect conftown at all costs if you are town. That is always the answer. Yet you do not.

[MathBlade]

To be quite clear I would rather lose and your arrogance be gone even if you were a cop of 5000 checks a night and mod made all results public.

I am hunting and trying to see the things you do and asking and trying to work with you and you do the equivalent of "look how big my appendage is". I assure you I have bigger ones in my drawers at home so put away the holier than thou, explain your reads and claim.

[PenguinPower]

Yes, arguably so because I need to be die for it to work and I want to stay in the game

K, I'm still new and all, but I checked the wiki for normal roles and didn't see anything that requires one to die (except for bodyguard, but that's not what you are alluding to) for the role to activate.

[MathBlade]

Yes, arguably so because I need to be die for it to work and I want to stay in the game

K, I'm still new and all, but I checked the wiki for normal roles and didn't see anything that requires one to die (except for bodyguard, but that's not what you are alluding to) for the role to activate.

There are a couple of others but none are more important than stopping scum from having the hammer tomorrow.

[MathBlade]

Never mind I stand corrected they took those out.

[MathBlade]

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... rmal_Roles


Please explain which of these roles you are stove.

[karnos]

My guess would be some flavor of enabler... maybe. I dunno.

Iron, I think it makes sense to come out, but I don't really care. I just think it might be beneficial for town to be united, I think this back and forth between you and MathBlade is not terrible constructive.

I'd prefer to lynch penguin, but I'm fine with nero as well.

[MathBlade]

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... _modifiers

Unlikely but let's see what he says.

[bji]

Spoiler: For everyone except Penguin

Iron, I think it makes sense to come out, but I don't really care. I just think it might be beneficial for town to be united, I think this back and forth between you and MathBlade is not terrible constructive.

Yeah I don't get this line of thinking. Iron is doubling down on his town claim by adding a role claim. If you believe he's town, you'll likely believe his claim and knowing his exact role doesn't really add anything. If you don't believe he's town, you wouldn't believe his role claim anyway. If you are unsure about Iron, then allowing a town claim, which can be made up by scum or town alike, to sway you either way is not very sound thinking.

Therefore I do not see any benefit in asking Iron to claim his role. If and when he thinks claiming is role is most beneficial, he will do so. If he's town, let's hope that he does it right. If he's scum, let's hope that it makes no sense and gets him lynched. Every fake role claim I've ever seen has completely backfired and screwed the player making the claim, and I've seen both town and scum do it.

For Penguin:

I don't think Iron should claim his role.

[MathBlade]

My guess would be some flavor of enabler... maybe. I dunno.

Iron, I think it makes sense to come out, but I don't really care. I just think it might be beneficial for town to be united, I think this back and forth between you and MathBlade is not terrible constructive.

I'd prefer to lynch penguin, but I'm fine with nero as well.

Enabler doesn't work because the rest of town (assuming for the moment Iron is town) would be VT. So he if is a X role enabler who the fuck cares? This game isn't about what PRs scum have anymore. We are all essentially VT. They can investigate, protect, or kill. The first is dumb as we'd all be VT, the middle is why?!?!?!, and the latter should only be the mafia kill. Scum cigs aren't normal. Enabler wouldn't cause iron to claim like that.

[PenguinPower]

Wiki says that some Enabler's affect scum roles when killed. Pretty sure you linked that.

[PenguinPower]

Spoiler: For everyone except Penguin

Iron, I think it makes sense to come out, but I don't really care. I just think it might be beneficial for town to be united, I think this back and forth between you and MathBlade is not terrible constructive.

Yeah I don't get this line of thinking. Iron is doubling down on his town claim by adding a role claim. If you believe he's town, you'll likely believe his claim and knowing his exact role doesn't really add anything. If you don't believe he's town, you wouldn't believe his role claim anyway. If you are unsure about Iron, then allowing a town claim, which can be made up by scum or town alike, to sway you either way is not very sound thinking.

Therefore I do not see any benefit in asking Iron to claim his role. If and when he thinks claiming is role is most beneficial, he will do so. If he's town, let's hope that he does it right. If he's scum, let's hope that it makes no sense and gets him lynched. Every fake role claim I've ever seen has completely backfired and screwed the player making the claim, and I've seen both town and scum do it.

For Penguin:

I don't think Iron should claim his role.

Well done, bji.

[MathBlade]

Wiki says that some Enabler's affect scum roles when killed. Pretty sure you linked that.

Did you read my last paragraph?

Scum have roles that fall into four categories
Investigative
Fuckup
Protective
Kill

Investigative -- Who cares?
Fuckup -- Again who cares bunch of VTs?
Protective -- why??
Kill -- Not applicable in Normal

There is literally no role in the normals that would cause iron to claim as he did. He has scum claimed.

[PenguinPower]

Fair enough. Iron should claim.

[ironstove]

Look back at the way I've played and decide if you think I'm scum, ignoring the claim today and if you think I'm scum then lynch me, it's that simple.

I'm voting for nero, end of story.

[ironstove]

Even if I were to claim a full role, there is no way for you to confirm if what I'm telling you is the truth because as I said, I have no results to report or way to verify myself besides a crumb I laid out D1 so we'd be back to square 1 anyway.

[Nero Cain]

What is your case on me besides "didn't vote Thor"?