Mini Normal 1848 — Game Over!

[DeathByWobbuffet]

Okay, cool. Can someone catch me up on what's happened so far?

[DeathByWobbuffet]

Alright, I'll read that. Thanks.

[DeathByWobbuffet]

So TwoFace scumreads me for... what reason exactly? Because my slot got into an argument with him over the definition of a role?

[DeathByWobbuffet]

So TwoFace scumreads me for... what reason exactly? Because my slot got into an argument with him over the definition of a role?

Nope try again.

So what is your reasoning? Care to explain? Or don't you feel like answering that?

[DeathByWobbuffet]

Well I wasn't here at the time and I don't particularly feel like digging through 25 pages to find some vague reasoning from you as to why you think I'm scum. You could at least give me the post number?

[DeathByWobbuffet]

VOTE: TwoFace

As much as I TR TwoFace, I feel like a policy lynch is necessary here. He's already shown that he's unwilling to contribute thoughtfully to the game, so I think that lynching them won't hurt too much even if they do flip town. And yeah, maybe it'll turn out that they're actually mafia.

[DeathByWobbuffet]

VOTE: TwoFace

As much as I TR TwoFace, I feel like a policy lynch is necessary here. He's already shown that he's unwilling to contribute thoughtfully to the game, so I think that lynching them won't hurt too much even if they do flip town. And yeah, maybe it'll turn out that they're actually mafia.

I've contributed thoughtfully. Thanks.

Uh, no. You've thrown out random scum reads and then lashed out at people who've asked you to give reasoning behind them, and you've refused to do so.

[DeathByWobbuffet]

Wobbuffet, how do you strongly townread TwoFace if you don't understand why he's scumreading you?

I don't strongly townread them. However, I do get the feeling that they're a townie who's made the mistake of not justifying their scumreads and being overly defensive. I could very well be wrong though.

[DeathByWobbuffet]

Wobbuffet, how do you strongly townread TwoFace if you don't understand why he's scumreading you?

I don't strongly townread them. However, I do get the feeling that they're a townie who's made the mistake of not justifying their scumreads and being overly defensive. I could very well be wrong though.

I've justified them though. It's not my fault you can't be bothered to read.

Read what? I've already asked you for a post number. I seem to recall that you ignored the question. If you really did give some decent reasoning, I'll happily retract my comment.

[DeathByWobbuffet]

Wobbuffet, how do you strongly townread TwoFace if you don't understand why he's scumreading you?

I don't strongly townread them. However, I do get the feeling that they're a townie who's made the mistake of not justifying their scumreads and being overly defensive. I could very well be wrong though.

As much as I TR TwoFace

, I feel like a policy lynch is necessary here. He's already shown that he's unwilling to contribute thoughtfully to the game, so I think that lynching them won't hurt too much even if they do flip town. And yeah, maybe it'll turn out that they're actually mafia.

Italics mine. "As much as I TR TwoFace" implies you have a strong town read on him, because otherwise why would you leverage the strength of the read against a need to policy lynch him?

I wasn't trying to say that I strongly townread him with that choice of words, but I was rather just trying to generally say that I TR TwoFace. It was worded rather poorly, I apologise.

[DeathByWobbuffet]

Personally, I don't buy the vig claim too much, if he is indeed claiming it. I'm fine with letting him live until day 2 though. Although that means I'm dead tonight.

[DeathByWobbuffet]

You don't have to claim, but considering you'll be lynched if you don't, it might be a good idea...

[DeathByWobbuffet]

So what do you think is more scummy? Lynching someone because you personally believe they're scum after they just happened to lynch you? Or lynching someone and refusing to give reasons for doing so? Because personally, I think the latter.

[DeathByWobbuffet]

Because you refuse to explain your reads to people replacing in and build a negative environment where multiple players have replaced out because of you. Your kinda ruining this game.

I am sorry, it is the responsibility of the person replacing in to read the game and catch up first. Once he has done that,

if he doesn't see why I am scum reading his slot he can then ask me to point them out

but since conversations took place about my reasons already i don't see how or why I should requote them. PLUS like I already said I was on a mobile device which means I was not able to go through my entire iso and pull every quote. I can do that later once he has caught up and I am on a computer

(italics mine)
Which is something I already did. I asked you, and you avoided the question.

[DeathByWobbuffet]

So what do you think is more scummy? Lynching someone because you personally believe they're scum after they just happened to lynch you? Or lynching someone and refusing to give reasons for doing so? Because personally, I think the latter.

this is a kind of pointless question because i don't see anyone refusing to give reasons.

ahem

[DeathByWobbuffet]

Which is something I already did. I asked you, and you avoided the question.

I didn't avoid the question

You didn't answer it. Is that not avoiding the question?

[DeathByWobbuffet]

So what do you think is more scummy? Lynching someone because you personally believe they're scum after they just happened to lynch you? Or lynching someone and refusing to give reasons for doing so? Because personally, I think the latter.

this is a kind of pointless question because i don't see anyone refusing to give reasons.

ahem

I have given reasons for scum reading your slot though.

Reasons which I have yet to see since you've refused to tell me.

[DeathByWobbuffet]

Oh yeah that's bad. The over explanation about scum being can be lynch baity makes it bad. Scum can't be lynch bait

This needs a flip. Should I vote?

Heads

VOTE: copper

Well I dug through the thread and I found this is where you lynched my slot. That's your reasoning? You disagreed over the definition of a term and you were so arrogant that you decided to lynch over it? Please.

[DeathByWobbuffet]

I voted TF because even though I believe they're probably town, I think lynching them is worth it just because even if they do end up flipping town, we don't lose much because they're not contributing to town by giving actual reasoning anyway.

[DeathByWobbuffet]

I don't believe a townie would say what you're saying. That's not what the others on the wagon were saying either

Right... so you scumread me because I lynched someone with different reasons than others have? I'd like to point out that everyone else just said "policy lynch". At least I justified my vote.

[DeathByWobbuffet]

I don't believe a townie would say what you're saying. That's not what the others on the wagon were saying either

Fine.

UNVOTE: TwoFace

[DeathByWobbuffet]

I don't believe a townie would say what you're saying. That's not what the others on the wagon were saying either

didn't mean to quote that whoops

[DeathByWobbuffet]

I don't believe a townie would say what you're saying. That's not what the others on the wagon were saying either

Also, I find it interesting how you're specifically targeting me when HS did the exact same thing.

[DeathByWobbuffet]

we don't lose much because they're not contributing to town by giving actual reasoning anyway.

Sorry guys, I know I said I would bite my tongue, and I will but I just want to point out that this statement has been proven false here - http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p8489932

There is no way he can see that post and still claim I am refusing to give actual reasons for my votes. In fact it shows I have given reasons for my vote multiple times.


I like the posts being made about HS as well. It's such a shame that the threat of a policy lynch was what was needed for people to see I was probably right the entire time.

Good night. RIP America

I didn't see that post. Thanks for actually explaining your lynch.

[DeathByWobbuffet]

HS, please explain how a Creeps lynch could actually be classified as a policy lynch. You make it sound like you want them gone because you're not sure that they're town.

[DeathByWobbuffet]

That was my reason. Make of it what you will. I'm not going to go and make up another reason just to make myself look less scummy. I've already unlynched them after being told that my reasoning was bad (I agree that it wasn't all that solid).

[DeathByWobbuffet]

Btw Wobbu you seem to be conflating voting and lynching, a lynch is what happens when we reach majority and someone dies, what people have been doing today is voting.

Huh, okay. When I've played mafia in the past I've used the two terms interchangeably, and used hammer as the term for when someone has the majority of votes on them.

[DeathByWobbuffet]

Wobbuffet what previous experience you have playing mafia?

I've played a lot of chat mafia on a different site.

[DeathByWobbuffet]

To be frank your slot has been the primary scum case so far, and then decided to drop out, you might want to start there.

Are you talking to me?

[DeathByWobbuffet]

To be frank your slot has been the primary scum case so far, and then decided to drop out, you might want to start there.

Oh nevermind, didn't see that Misa just got replaced.

[DeathByWobbuffet]

To be frank your slot has been the primary scum case so far, and then decided to drop out, you might want to start there.

When did HS say that they TRed Creeps?

[DeathByWobbuffet]

Ugh why do I keep quoting random stuff?

[DeathByWobbuffet]

Nah, he clarified it pretty quickly, before you'd pointed out that he'd left out that part. I don't see it as particularly scummy.

[DeathByWobbuffet]

If anyone was lazy, it was you. It's perfectly reasonable that I shouldn't have to look through 30 pages to find some vague reasoning as to why you think I'm scum, when you could easily just tell me yourself.

[DeathByWobbuffet]

To be frank your slot has been the primary scum case so far, and then decided to drop out, you might want to start there.

Yeah, that's why I said that ^^

[DeathByWobbuffet]

Please ignore that quote.

[DeathByWobbuffet]

I used to TR TwoFace, but I'm not so sure anymore. They seem to be getting overly defensive whenever anyone makes any kind of accusation about them. They're also trying to get Mort lynched for something that was pretty clearly a mistake, and was quickly fixed.

[DeathByWobbuffet]

I don't think you'll be force replaced either. Hope not anyway.

I still don't know why we're letting wobbuffet off the hook. I've caught him in 2 lies already.

Which are...?

[DeathByWobbuffet]

I don't think you'll be force replaced either. Hope not anyway.

I still don't know why we're letting wobbuffet off the hook. I've caught him in 2 lies already.

Which are...?

Unwilling to contribute though fully to the game
Lashed out at people who've asked for reasons and I've refused to give them
Not justifying my scum reads
Refusing to give reasons
Avoided the question
That my reason for scum reading your slot was because I disagree with the term lynchbait
Not contributing to the game by giving actual reasons
That I'm trying to get mort lynched.

None of these are true. Yes I realize some of these are duplicates. It's one thing to make a simple mistake. It's another to repeatedly lie over and over again.

This is all subjective. You might believe that these are lies, but in my opinion most of these statements are true. The ones that aren't were mistakes that I made because you'd refused to actually prove that what I was saying was false.

[DeathByWobbuffet]

Mort has been on every major lynch wagon of the gameVOTE: MortFeld

I'd just like to point out that they weren't on the TF policy lynch wagon iirc.

[DeathByWobbuffet]

Theory question: if I think one person is more likely Red than another, but the second person's flip gives me more info than the first person's, which is a better lynch?

It really depends on whether or not it's early in the game or not in my opinion. If it's still n1 or n2 then town can probably afford to infolynch someone.

[DeathByWobbuffet]

Will write up my reads now.

[DeathByWobbuffet]

Okay so other than TF, who I'm not going to talk about here, my primary SR is probably on Creeps. Their only post here in the last few days was this.

VOTE: HS
I think everyone has replacements

All they did was hop on the HS wagon, probably so they could make themeselves look green and not get a lot of suspicion because they were basically just doing what everyone else was and didn't have to give any of their own reasoning. They haven't posted since.

That being said, I do find HS a little scummy. The town PR fishing is worrying, but to be fair I haven't found anything else that makes me really feel that they're not green, which is the reason why I haven't jumped on the bandwagon yet.

Other than that, I do suspect TB's slot. The lurking isn't even the part that makes me think that they could be red, but rather the fact that they had to get a replacement because they said that they didn't know what to do. That makes me feels as if they could be a mafia member who isn't really sure how to play and can't ask the rest of their faction because the qt is locked. I'll have to wait and see what whoever replaces them does before making my decision about this one though.

[DeathByWobbuffet]

Well then he only has 2 scum reads. I'm trying to be charitable.

No supposedly I'm scum for the same reason he was previously town reading me

The more relevant point of info then would be that he's flip flopped regarding your alignment (he TRd you, then either threw shade or started to SR you, and now suddenly you're no longer suspicious/he refuses to talk about you for some reason?).

Uh, no. It's because you specifically asked me for my scumreads apart from TF.

[DeathByWobbuffet]

Or is it that you think keeping my vote on HS while having second thoughts is Red! motivated? If this is the case, consider that I had been having second thoughts way earlier than the post I linked, essentially boiled down to - head says Red, gut says Green. This specifically is what I was trying to work out, am I still Red for not unvoting?

Yeah tbh bc you just now said that HS was obvtown posting and unvoted
So either you had the obvtown read earlier or it just showed up
If you had it earlier then letting someone be close to a lynch w a townread on them while on their wagon is bad. And im not going to explain the scum motive there bc i should not have to lol
And if you just decided on the obvtown while it was wavering b4 then it comes back to deciding to solidify your HS townread after talking to your scumread

Its one thing to keep your vote on someone while pressuring them to read them better but thats not the situation youve described
VOTE: Mort

I don't quite understand what you're voting him here for. Is it for changing his mind about HS?

[DeathByWobbuffet]

Wobbu you've posted but I still don't know who you think is Green. I don't understand why this, of all things, should be like pulling teeth.

Have your Red reads changed from 1035? What do you think about Road?

You seem pretty green to me. Everyone else, except for the ones I mentioned in my SRs post I'm not too sure about. Mostly because a lot of them haven't been too active.

Yeah, they have changed since then. I feel that HS is more likely town now. Their scumhunting when they were at L-2 feels green motivated to me. Also, the TB slot seems even more scummy. The fact that their replacement has been mostly lurking hasn't helped.

I don't particularly like Road Kamelot's reasons for lynching Mort. I feel like they were deliberately trying to for a lynch on him. I'm not going to decide on whether or not I'll vote them until we have a claim though.

[DeathByWobbuffet]

I am wondering whether Wobbu's bad reads are because Wobbu is Red, because Wobbu is new, or because Wobbu isn't reading. Which is it, Wobbu?

Why do you find my reads bad?