Mini Normal 1848 — Game Over!

[MortFeld]

Oh you're right Road. That was my bad, mixed up Creeps and TF. Ty for catch Wobbu

I didn't deliberately leave out anything TF. I wanted to catch Road up and I made some mistakes. The mistake wasn't even leaving out the soft claim, it was leaving out Creeps' name.

[Road Kamelot]

What on earth is making you unsure?

How about the complete misrepresentation of my play. Saying I haven't tried to game solve is a bold face lie

The deliberately leaving out the fact creeps had soft claimed.

theres literally no way scum was trying to hide a softclaim from me
why even WOULD they???? Like whats the angle
First line is fine depending on if uve been solving or not but youve now given me incentive to check

[TwoFace]

If anyone was lazy, it was you. It's perfectly reasonable that I shouldn't have to look through 30 pages to find some vague reasoning as to why you think I'm scum, when you could easily just tell me yourself.

Except my reasons were far from vague but carry on.

[MortFeld]

Misrepping your play TF is up to interpretation, personally I am sick of interacting with you and can definitely see a scum case for you. I see your play as focused on discrediting other players, proving them wrong, showing that your own play is good. You're focusing on minutia and I don't see that as game solving.

[MortFeld]

VOTE: 690 is TF's case on Copper/Wobbu, I wouldn't call it vague but I would also not call it convincing. My reasons for SRing that slot have little to do with it.

[MortFeld]

690 is TF's case on Copper/Wobbu, I wouldn't call it vague but I would also not call it convincing. My reasons for SRing that slot have little to do with it.

EBWOP what an awful habit.

[DeathByWobbuffet]

I used to TR TwoFace, but I'm not so sure anymore. They seem to be getting overly defensive whenever anyone makes any kind of accusation about them. They're also trying to get Mort lynched for something that was pretty clearly a mistake, and was quickly fixed.

[Human Sequencer]

I would Claim but that is useless for me as my role really dosen't really scream 'town'

... yeah that was my other reason, when he said he was so nervous he did not want to post he reminded me of Gideon (for

HS

, Toto and Chaos).

Yeah, you missed that after going 2x through Copper's ISO.

I thought this was just referring to him acting scared to post and accidentally getting himself scumread in the way that Gideon did, not relating that to them both being PRs. Once you point it out, it becomes incredibly obvious though.

@Mort's post 739
Well it was 'Policy Lynch Territory' because it seemed like we were on a direct course to policy lynching TwoFace, who I am convinced is town.
A lynch on Creeps would be considered a policy lynch because most people on the wagon wouldn't be scumreading him, and my main leverage point was that he's useless to town as he is and difficult to read for all of us.
The town motivation is to not lynch somebody I've townread, and to instead lynch somebody I'm not sure about.
Sure, I recognize it was a botched attempt and pretty hamfisted in the way I put it, but at the time I was desperate not to lynch town.

As I said in 614, I'd prefer a lynch on Misa or a wagon on TB over policy lynching, and I reference that in the post that you're scrutinizing.

And as a final clarification to why I think Creeps would be a policy lynch:
Creeps is acting incredibly scummy seemingly on purpose. This makes him incredibly hard to read, and a liability later in the game as I said in post 340 in reply to Copper.

Most of this becomes a stupid idea if I know that Creeps has soft claimed. I think it's silly to imply that I suggested this as scum knowing that Creeps has softclaimed to try and nab the role. That would be very stupid. So the only options left are HS is Town and either knew Creeps' softclaim or didn't know Creeps' softclaim, or HS is scum and didn't know Creeps' softclaim.
I know I'm town, but it's up to you to decide.

@Mort's post 761
"649 is TF claiming vig!?!? says potentially scum!HS. scum!TF if you're claiming vig you won't die!"
TF has implied he'll vig me tonight (if I'm reading the situation correctly). If this is the truth and TF is scum, then D2 I will be alive and TF will be alive.
scumTF claiming vig would be horrible for scumHS, because then scumHS would have to explain why they're still alive every single day with a supposed vigTF aiming at him, and if one of them is lynched from that then the other is immediately incredibly suspicious and must be lynched. Therefore it would be scumHS' highest priority to stop TF from claiming vig and ending his life if he does, which doesn't make sense because I unvote shortly after when I'm informed that TF is being replaced.
I think TF and my interaction is at the very least NAI considering that this post confirms that my problem was with TwoFace, not the slot. Which I'm fairly sure most people should have picked up by now.

[MortFeld]

You're still not explaining something though HS. I get why Creeps is a policy lynch. I get that you didn't want to lynch TwoFace. How is a Creeps policy lynch a reasonable alternative rather than just not voting TwoFace and expressing your opposition to the TF policy lynch? People weren't trying to policy lynch anyone, they were trying to policy lynch TwoFace. How on earth does saying "Creeps is a better PL!" make sense? Nobody was having an issue with Creeps at that point.

[Human Sequencer]

Sure, I recognize it was a botched attempt and pretty hamfisted in the way I put it, but at the time I was desperate not to lynch town.

Creeps is a better PL because we didn't know his alignment, and we thought TF was green.

I suppose I could have just said 'I don't want to policy lynch TF because I read him as town', and I did do that, but I was under the impression that it wouldn't have swayed town's perspective in the slightest, so instead I posted what I logically saw as a better alternative.

[MortFeld]

Uh... ok. It's incredibly odd, you have to see how it doesn't make sense to me and why nobody considered voting Creeps. Anyway my vote stays on you until we hear from TB, Road, and the nearly completely mute Lohik/Nero slot.

[MortFeld]

To be clear, it's more than incredibly odd, you've given a town motivation but that town motivation is completely illogical and the scum motivations make way more sense.

[Human Sequencer]

Of course it doesn't make sense to you, we're two different people with different mindsets.

What I said is still the truth, though.

How is the town motivation illogical, and what scum motivation makes more sense?

[Drone]

VOTE: HS
When discussing policy lynching, it's important to understand that it's not something that you normally do, nor want to do. The policy wagon I started, came out of my inability to keep up with the game, without attacking TF for not game related problems.
I'll expose myself and admit I was the one to ask to force replace TF as I don't think that the game should be impacted by one's behaviour.

But the thing that I cannot process is HS's will to move the wagon to Creeps.
HS was aware that most players view Creeps as an obvtown lynchbait, too-obvious-scum-to-be-scum.
While it was TF who remained a bigger question in terms of alignment and towny play.

[Human Sequencer]

I don't think obvtown lynchbait was the general consensus, at the very least it's not how I read Creeps at all.
TF on the other hand I read as very town, and assumed others did too. His towny play sure was nonexistent, though, I'll give yo that.

[Drone]

It's good we didn't lynch TF. HS planned to distance and go "I told you!" to earn town points.
And I think they know TF's alignment, same for Creeps. Basically a bus attempt, painted ml.

[Drone]

How did you come to this assumption? If you're scum, which I start to believe you are, you should at least make sure you're in synch with the leading towns.

You obviously don't do that, and you're not as loud as Creeps or TF for that to be taken as emotional towny play.

[Drone]

Painted PL ** [815]

[Human Sequencer]

It wasn't an emotional towny play. It was a logical, thought out play.

In post 816, you just gave a valid reason as to why I could be town. I don't even really know who the leading towns are. I assumed it was me, but that's probably just because of my massive egocentrism.

If I'm lynched today let it be known that I very strongly townread TF, strongly townread Uzi and Mort and that my main suspects at this time are ThinkBig and Misa's slot.

[Drone]

I'll let you know I agree with your reads on Uzi.
I'm implying you're going against the common reads in the a fishy manner.
I never said that going against the common reads and self isolation is town indicative, only if emotional.

[MortFeld]

Drone what would you identify as the most common TRs and SRs? Curious because I feel we're pretty across the board.

[Drone]

It's different, depends on the circumstances.
I believe scum!HS found isolation very convenient in this very game and I can't blame them.
Just look back how aggressively they reacted when they believed I defended them.

[Human Sequencer]

Except for the fact that I fell right in line with most of Copper's beliefs before he replaced out.
I've been accused of sheeping, and now I'm being accused of being isolationist.

[MortFeld]

I'm not seeing what you're seeing Drone, an analysis of HS' reads compared to the flow of the game over time might help? Or maybe I have to do the legwork here?

[Nero Cain]

I woke up this morning and my throat was sore and I wasn't worried about it but by the time I got back from lunch I had felt even worse. So I've just been resting today. I don't think/hope I'm not coming down with anything but I just wanted to let ppl know whats going on.