http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Mhsmith0
Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
Life is simply unfair, don't you think?
In post 1239, goodmorning wrote:On the other hand, Grey was townreading me pretty hard, so I don't know that Scum-me would have wanted him dead.
Grey was also hard town reading me.
Just a heads up that I start a training course at work tomorrow which means I won't be able to post in the day anymore. I'll still be around in the evenings.
In post 1248, BlackVoid wrote:Hate to interrupt but I haven't posted for more than a day so here are my token busywork questions to make it look like I'm doing something:
@GM, how do you feel about the idea of lynching Sotty7?
Besides IAI, who do you suspect and who are your townreads?
interestingly, you will find the answers to these questions in my iso
In post 1256, goodmorning wrote:interestingly, you will find the answers to these questions in my iso
Actually I read your ISO before I asked. I have a vague idea of some of your reads. I'm asking because I want you to commit to clear positions and so I can get an idea of which read is stronger than the other.
You said D1 that you were scumreading BBT but didn't want to forget Victor, but then decided that you liked the Sotty7 wagon more than BBT and said you'll move there. Then you stayed on Victor and never brought up Sotty7 again. It's all a bit confusing and I'd like some clarity going forward.
In post 1195, goodmorning wrote:hey creature, what do you think of rask accusing me of not backing up a tr on grey when i did it
in a post he's obviously read
No, you really didn't say much about him. You said a fair bit about what other people said about him, but your comments on greyice alignment were pretty weak and had very little analysis. Talking about him was very far down the list for you, given he was the biggest talking point for a huge part of the day.
Okay so. People still fail to see what I'm getting at, I haven't seen that much focus here. Breakdown.
Earlyday
Midday
Lateday
In post 1194, goodmorning wrote:NOBODY WAS ON THE FENCE. I'm convinced he's Scum and reading his posts was making the game extremely unfun for me, so yeah, I stopped. I said all I had to say and nobody who wanted Grey lynched bought it, so there was no point wasting my breath repeating myself.
Nope. There were several people, twoface, I think creature, myself (though I leaned grey it wasn't much). Twoface "whatever but I'll hammer if he's l-1" is a pretty obvious sign.
People were making their minds up towards deadline because it was necessary because it was deadline, there was a ton of opportunity in the days coming up to that point, and the wagon getting to l-2 (with twoface "I'll hammer if l-1") proved it.
Statements like this and "well he was my scumread so naturally I stopped reading his posts or commenting on him" are just so over the top ridiculous that I can't see them coming from town.
In post 1144, goodmorning wrote:I don't like you equating tunneling with towniness. Tunneling is a mildly scummy behaviour.
If you care about something you don't ignore it. This is a false dilemma you're creating; the game is not black-and-white where you either say nothing or tunnel.
AGAIN, I'M NOT GOING TO WASTE MY BREATH REPEATING MYSELF.
IF I SAY IT IN CAPS WILL YOU COMPREHEND IT THIS TIME?
TUNNELING IS A SCUMMY BEHAVIOUR! I DON'T LIKE YOU EQUATING TUNNELING WITH TOWNINESS!
~That's not my point though. I have points X Y Z
[ignores X Y Z] WOW, DON'T MAKE ME REPEAT MYSELF!
Sorry but vague statements aren't actually real answers, even passive aggressive ones with caps lock.
If I townread someone I try to avoid their lynch. If I scumread someone I try to lynch them, or at least I don't talk about other things. Or at least, you'd be a little upset, if your townread is being mislynched by to of your scumreads, you'd say more than a little squeak I'd hope. I think basic assumptions about something like this are almost universal, even the newest player will still "care" about his reads a little, even the worst I don't think are just apathetic when they see everything going in a bad direction for them. I'd hope so at least.
In post 1183, Raskolnikov wrote:It's not trollweirdscum, he had scum motivation for his actions. He wanted to cast doubt on people for mislynching greyice and definitely used that (IAI), and even though out of his victor read he couldn't "support" the wagon, he wanted greyice gone anyways as an experienced player so he didn't comment. His ISO is pure casting doubt on people with barely any push or commitment behind it, read what his focus was around the mid/end of yesterday.
This is a stretch. If GM wanted Grey gone she would have voted him. There was plenty of time for her to switch and she had been scum read BBT at the start of the game.
A bit of a simplification here.
If you want to cast shade on people for being on a wagon you don't switch to that same wagon yourself. My point was there wasn't much reason for scum-gm to push victor over greyice, as though greyice did townread gm he was still a potentially threatening player to scum overall; my point was there were reasons scum gm would be happy to have that happen as well. Casting doubt and have grey go through was better than the scum-alternative choice for gm, is my point; assuming victor town if he had been lynched instead it wouldn't have been as easy for goodmorning I think, not having it go through means she didn't have to change any stance. Not to mention that outright scumreading/pushing greyice would have potentially put gm in the firing line of him or others and invited people to ask questions there. I can see the point that she maybe could have just kept a minor scumread on greyice with BBT's play as reasoning, but I don't think it's by any means that simple. For starters, other scum on the greyice wagon would incentivise gm to have held this stance as an alternative.
Tired, will look at sotty and hoopla cases tomorrow. Not as interesting, no smoking guns just thorough could-be-scum mediocrity if I remember. Need to get stances from cloud too.
The vote on IAI is the same sort of lazy vote parking as she did with me.
She talked a little bit about IAI yesterday (mostly sheeping Grey's calls for a vigging him) but never really levied any particularly good reason for him being scum.
Today she votes him in 1144, giving no reasons for the vote (yet in the same post she spent two paragraphs defending herself). Let's see what she's said about IAI in her other posts today:
So she's all alone on the IAI wagon and yet once again she's doing nothing. No case, no attempt to interact with IAI, no attempt to move anyone else onto the wagon. It's classic lazy scum voting.
First of all, kudos to GreyICE for replacing into a probably doomed slot and putting a ton of effort into providing analysis for the town -- I think if I were around late in the day that effortposting might have been enough to sway me and I'll review your reads later. Some anti-kudos for the predictable name calling and blame-the-other-guy spazzing out, but whatevs.
Personally, I find the mason claim highly likely to be true. I'm very curious about those who claim scum do this all the time, because I rarely see it... at least not in mini normals where balance can be judged upon massclaim. Two mason fakeclaims will stick out like a sore thumb in a sea of PR claims if they are indeed fake. The most likely situation is we have two masons and one other good PR or two masons and two weak to middling roles. There's pretty much never two masons in a town with three or four other PR's, so we can easily tell later in the game if the mason claim is fake. So, everyone should just drop it until massclaim occurs... which we'll be doing the Day before mylo/lylo.
Anyway, while I'm catching up, I see there is a goodmorning wagon and how could I not take that opportunity? I still think there was a scum involved in that nonsensical argument that Victor/me/goodmorning/TwoFace had yesterday. She almost certainly isn't a mason too which is bonus points in my eyes for avoiding accidentally wagoning the other mason.
In post 1264, VictorDeAngelo wrote:The vote on IAI is the same sort of lazy vote parking as she did with me.
I agree with this also. When the two major wagons of yesterday have turned out to be town (assuming the mason claim is true), I find her vote-parking yesterday when no scum was under pressure quite suspicious. Scum tend to stick with votes more often when their position (and their buddies) are secure, as there's little motivation to alter the game-state, put yourself in the limelight and take risks moving attention elsewhere. Her IAI vote today is an extension of this pattern as it's another relatively safe vote that can't really be challenged.
I might iso dive some people after school but seriously i realize that i shouldve took notes from the start. About sottys wagon, i just think that i am going to rereand grey and find why did she tr her then move from there
In post 1256, goodmorning wrote:interestingly, you will find the answers to these questions in my iso
Actually I read your ISO before I asked. I have a vague idea of some of your reads. I'm asking because I want you to commit to clear positions and so I can get an idea of which read is stronger than the other.
You said D1 that you were scumreading BBT but didn't want to forget Victor, but then decided that you liked the Sotty7 wagon more than BBT and said you'll move there. Then you stayed on Victor and never brought up Sotty7 again. It's all a bit confusing and I'd like some clarity going forward.
That looks to me like you read the first ~10-15 and skimmed the rest. I'll go through when I get home and do some nice quoting for you though.
In post 1259, Raskolnikov wrote:Statements like this and "well he was my scumread so naturally I stopped reading his posts or commenting on him" are just so over the top ridiculous that I can't see them coming from town.
See, this is the foundation of your entire scumread on me, and it's not a good one.
Scum don't act ridiculous.
Granted, I have a higher ridiculous baseline than most people, but come on.
In post 1262, Raskolnikov wrote:If you want to cast shade on people for being on a wagon you don't switch to that same wagon yourself.
this would be a great point if i was doing that
if.
In post 1263, Raskolnikov wrote:Tired, will look at sotty and hoopla cases tomorrow. Not as interesting,
no smoking guns just thorough could-be-scum mediocrity if I remember
.
And you wonder why I've not talked much about Sotty. Or was that BV wondering that?
In post 1266, Hoopla wrote:First of all, kudos to GreyICE for replacing into a probably doomed slot and putting a ton of effort into providing analysis for the town -- I think if I were around late in the day that effortposting might have been enough to sway me and I'll review your reads later.
um.
Vote: Hoopla
Personally, I find the mason claim highly likely to be true. I'm very curious about those who claim scum do this all the time, because I rarely see it... at least not in mini normals where balance can be judged upon massclaim. Two mason fakeclaims will stick out like a sore thumb in a sea of PR claims if they are indeed fake. The most likely situation is we have two masons and one other good PR or two masons and two weak to middling roles. There's pretty much never two masons in a town with three or four other PR's, so we can easily tell later in the game if the mason claim is fake. So, everyone should just drop it until massclaim occurs... which we'll be doing the Day before mylo/lylo.
A. We don't have 2, we have 1. Scum doesn't have to all FC together.
B. Historically, # of roles in Normals has been decreasing. We could very well have few enough PRs that a couple Masons wouldn't look that weird. And Scum has a vague idea how night-strong Town is - their # and roles have to balance.
Personally, I find the mason claim highly likely to be true. I'm very curious about those who claim scum do this all the time, because I rarely see it... at least not in mini normals where balance can be judged upon massclaim. Two mason fakeclaims will stick out like a sore thumb in a sea of PR claims if they are indeed fake. The most likely situation is we have two masons and one other good PR or two masons and two weak to middling roles. There's pretty much never two masons in a town with three or four other PR's, so we can easily tell later in the game if the mason claim is fake. So, everyone should just drop it until massclaim occurs... which we'll be doing the Day before mylo/lylo.
A. We don't have 2, we have 1. Scum doesn't have to all FC together.
B. Historically, # of roles in Normals has been decreasing. We could very well have few enough PRs that a couple Masons wouldn't look that weird. And Scum has a vague idea how night-strong Town is - their # and roles have to balance.
In post 1270, goodmorning wrote:hat looks to me like you read the first ~10-15 and skimmed the rest. I'll go through when I get home and do some nice quoting for you though.
I don't care for quotes. I want to see where you are at now. Just telling me what your reads are would be nice.
It's not that you haven't posted your reads. It's that I don't know which reads are stronger than others. I want to see
Relative is a silly word to use. If I haven't talked about them, I have no read, or a valid reason not to mention a strong read. If I've talked about them, they're strong enough for me to mention. If I've talked about them a lot, they're stronger. If I've voteparked on them, they're the strongest.
Alright, I'm bored, I'll take pity:
Strong Town: Raskolnikov, BlackVoid, MariaR
Weak Town: Jaack, CloudKicker
Scum: Hoopla, VictorDeAngelo, I Am Innocent, Sotty7
idek: Creature
Scum are in No Particular Order but note where my vote currently is. That Hoopla post was the single scummiest thing to come from anyone this entire game.
but seriously i realize that i shouldve took notes from the start. About sottys wagon, i just think that i am going to rereand grey and find why did she tr her then move from there