Mini Normal 1843 - Endgame

[Hoopla]

Can you post a list of your reads from town --> scum? Maybe even with scores if you're feeling friendly?

[I Am Innocent]

With that said, it looks like BBT is play for today. Hopefully we can L-1 a wagon and get a claim to assess before getting too close to the deadline.

I agree with this. My biggest pet peeve in mafia is the amount of D1's that wait until the last 48 hours to compromise, leaving little time to analyse a claim, and often reducing the town to chaotic scrambling if that wagon dissipates.

Really, the most interesting/alignment relevant things that happen on D1 occur post-claim, so lets get a move on. Maria, BBT, goodmorning, Innocent and Cloudkicker are wasting their votes and future time to analyse a claim/wagon as far as I'm concerned.

So based on this any interest to join cloud on intent on GI to get a claim so we can assess?

[Hoopla]

I'd rather lynch Jack, atm.

[TwoFace]

Grey, I have a question to ask you too. But I want to wait until Twoface asks his question.

Question Queue

• TwoFace
  
• Hoopla

What do you make of sotty's attempts to buddy victor? Also thoughta on Sotty doing a list of reads when he left victor off.

I'll read the rest later. Going to go early vote

[Jaack]

Okay lets get to the sotty stuff, and then we'll address more recent concerns.

Rask - Thanks for the meta input.

I think it might be better for us to continue this once BBT comes back and starts posting more. I'll put a pin in it for now.

Twoface being like antisocial and giving a "fuck you" vibe doesn't get any points but it's hard to judge it from style from an alt without meta available. Him not voting anyone despite seeming to have problems with people is kind of weird to me. Would think he'd vote victor or maybe cloud at this point given the things he said.

I didn't even notice he wasn't voting anymore. Town read downgraded.

I really don't care about the coin flip thing, I'm not taking it to mean he is letting the coin decide his vote expect maybe in the initial stages of the game. It's a quirk I'm fine with. The lack of a voting is more damaging than anything else, you should always be trying to work your vote as it's your strongest tool. Not only that but it provides info about were you stand at any given time, not to mention potential VCA's. It's day one Twoface, what are you waiting for, vote your top scum read and lets get going.

Was about to vote victor actually but his response makes me think town, and goodmorning's push on him has been weird.

Why were you about to vote victor? Cutting through GM's style I fnd myself agreeing with things she has posted (hoopla stuff, BBT stuff, maybe not so much Victor stuff)

Why don't you come and join me on BBT instead?

I know you kinda want to.

I'm not really interested in a Victor vote. His stuff on Twoface is mostly good and I haven't hated his responses to GM. If he addresses Hoopla's questions, that would be even better.

(Bolded added for emphasis)
This feels contradictory. Her case on BBT was a good part meta, but after Rask sort of argues against that (209), sotty wants to simultaneously drop discussion of BBT's meta while also getting Rask to vote?

Sotty eventually switches her vote over to TwoFace (311) until BBT comes back and its right back to that wagon(466).

But in that interim, she does very little to push on that TwoFace vote. In fact she even pushes him to vote BBT in 334. The push on TwoFace looks kind of like a placeholder until BBT returns, because sotty is aware that camping on a non-entity doesn't look good.

Overall, I just feel there's a strange fixation early on that seems unnatural. But now that the BBT/GreyIce wagon has come to pass, sotty seems to be no longer concerned with too much with pushing it.

Other than that ordeal and the stuff from the early game that I've already covered, most of sotty's posts are in the meh range. It's enough where I continue to be comfortable with my vote.

----
Moving right along, I want to wrap-up my little dialogue with Maria earlier.

I had downgraded my read of her as I had said in 641.

I felt there was a easy to see scum-narritive there. She made a weak initial push on me, one of the inactives. After I kind of shut that down and she failed to get any traction she moved away, but after interest in me organically sprung up she was back to voting me. It felt more like she was scum who had me as one of her own designated scumreads than town actually convinced I was scum.

But with Maria kind of pushing back on most of the others' reasons for scumreading me (656) I do feel better about her.

[goodmorning]

ftr genuinely trying to infuriate someone is a huge scumtell imo

because it's a really anti-town action but you can pretend it's not your fault

Dam I must be the most scummy person ever in your eyes then cause I find that fun

If you were better at it I might, but you were aiming for Toffee and didn't even make fun of Everton so???

@hoopla: ah, the jokes are back again hmk

Lets be honest, was there any other appropriate reaction to your comment about me that essentially boiled down to

"too townie to be town"

(the rare, but charming companion piece to

"too scummy to be scum"

)?

Being responsible and reasonable isn't necessarily a Town thing though.

--

I could vote IAI today if that wagon becomes a thing.

Like, "he voted someone other than the most popular of his SRs, thus Scum plus buddy!"
But if Grey had voted Jaack instead of Victor I bet it would be, "he has other SRs but voted the popular one, he is Scum!"

--

Also Jaack still going with all this Sotty stuff makes me think he's more likely to be Town because that's a hell of a brick wall for Scum to throw themselves at.

[I Am Innocent]

If I hadn't already said Face was Town then 542 would have convinced me.

It seems that part of my feelings for goodmorning were caused by skimming. Posts like #112 do have solid content buried within the fluff, but that's not immediately obvious when skimming.

Protip: In posts that have some grammatically correct sentences and some non grammatically correct sentences, the correct ones are more likely to be important, and the incorrect ones are more likely to be entertaining.

In posts that have none, I was too tired for grammar, probably.

--

Between the two wagons, I prefer Sotty.

I don't have a huge problem with either wagon

nor with us suddenly being in some way constrained to them alone. I'd like to see more from Toffee before I commit to anything though.

So GM, how did you go from not having "a huge problem with either wagon" to chainsawing me for pushing that wagon:

I could vote IAI today if that wagon becomes a thing.

Like, "he voted someone other than the most popular of his SRs, thus Scum plus buddy!"
But if Grey had voted Jaack instead of Victor I bet it would be, "he has other SRs but voted the popular one, he is Scum!"

Yeah that is a strange 180 from someone you thought might be scum, to say I'm scum for falsely pushing him regardless of what actions he did.

Also noted the poor town read of Jack later in that same post. Grey/Jack/GM?

[I Am Innocent]

Can you post a list of your reads from town --> scum? Maybe even with scores if you're feeling friendly?

Just from the catchup, for instance ur unvote/contradiction from an earlier stance where you don't like to wait until deadline to get claims would have been a negative point:

Town: Cloud, Hoopla, BlackVoid, Victor, Sotty
Null/Town Lean: Rask, TwoFace, Michel, Maria
Null Scum: GoodMorning
Scum: GreyIce, Jaack

3 of the town reads dropped strong town tells (including yourself), both scum read dropped a early game scum tells in addition to poor posts. Good Morning to did not have one positive post either. BBT was the only of my scum reads to have a good post, and it was for his early vote on the Rask wagon since I saw something there early on. Of course Rask has since been more townie, so that one post doesn't offset the number of bad posts/scum tell that slot dropped.

[TwoFace]

Also Jaack still going with all this Sotty stuff makes me think he's more likely to be Town because that's a hell of a brick wall for Scum to throw themselves at.

why would sotty be a brick wall? twice they were the largest vote getter and twice votes went elsewhere. logic suggests sotty is scum and everyone else is a counter.

[Sotty7]

I missed a lot over night. Fridays are my busy day at work so I'll check in tonight with substance

[mhsmith0]

Due to site outage deadline will be extended by a day

Day one deadline is Thursday November 3, 8 AM PST. (expired on 2016-11-03 08:00:00)

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch!

[GreyICE]

This has been a good hustle by Grey so far. He's really doing his slot proud, but I'm still not sold on Victor scum, sooooo I'm just gonna chill on the Jack wagon for a while...

You casting shade on me while saying stuff like this is not a good look for you Hoopla.

[GreyICE]

Grey, I have a question to ask you too. But I want to wait until Twoface asks his question.

Question Queue

• TwoFace
  
• Hoopla

What do you make of sotty's attempts to buddy victor? Also thoughta on Sotty doing a list of reads when he left victor off.

I'll read the rest later. Going to go early vote

I think it's a little odd, but I think it's also similar to how you might react if someone was voting a town read of yours. If Sotty is scum, then I'd say it points towards Victor town, since she'd have had to have made a conscious decision to support his towniness, and then left him off her reads list after specifically deciding how to treat her buddy? If it was most other players I'd dismiss the possibility out of hand, but Sotty might think to do that. Regardless, I think that the more likely explanation is the simple one. Sotty is town, she thought of some town reads off her head when she was asked, she didn't think of victor.

As for the buddying... I honestly don't see it. Buddying is like "oh you're such a strong player" only not quite that transparent. She says she thinks Victor is town. I mean that's not exactly buddying, I might think someone is town but think their posts are shit (see: ClownFucker)

[GreyICE]

IAI's fake vigor is as hilarious as it is pathetic. "I run this town!" He's using it to disguise the fact he doesn't want to give any reads. It's fake aggression from a player that's very well aware he has earned a vigging and desperately wants to avoid that.

As for the Michael Sableheart, you're watching my thoughts immediately after I replace in versus my thoughts after I read over more and think about it. But I guess when you have nothing, you have to cling to every little scrap.

[mhsmith0]

MichelSableheart has requested replacement.

[GreyICE]

...

[MariaR]

Can you post a list of your reads from town --> scum? Maybe even with scores if you're feeling friendly?

Just from the catchup, for instance ur unvote/contradiction from an earlier stance where you don't like to wait until deadline to get claims would have been a negative point:

Town: Cloud, Hoopla, BlackVoid, Victor, Sotty
Null/Town Lean: Rask, TwoFace, Michel, Maria
Null Scum: GoodMorning
Scum: GreyIce, Jaack

3 of the town reads dropped strong town tells (including yourself), both scum read dropped a early game scum tells in addition to poor posts. Good Morning to did not have one positive post either. BBT was the only of my scum reads to have a good post, and it was for his early vote on the Rask wagon since I saw something there early on. Of course Rask has since been more townie, so that one post doesn't offset the number of bad posts/scum tell that slot dropped.

I saw victor and black in the town slot and stopped reading

[Hoopla]

Alright, I think it's my turn to ask Grey a question. It's private though, so please nobody else read it:

Spoiler: secret question

What's your starsign?

[mhsmith0]

Votecount 1.11

GreyICE (5)

Sotty7 , MichelSableheart , BlackVoid , VictorDeAngelo , I Am Innocent , L-2

Jaack (1)

Hoopla ,

MichelSableheart (1)

CloudKicker ,

VictorDeAngelo (2)

goodmorning , GreyICE ,

Sotty7 (3)

Jaack , Raskolnikov , TwoFace ,

Not Voting (1)

MariaR ,

Day one deadline is Thursday November 3, 8 AM PST. (expired on 2016-11-03 08:00:00)

With 13 alive, it's 7 to lynch!

[/size]

[MariaR]

When tf did I unvote jaack-oh yeah
VOTE: Jaack

[BlackVoid]

@Hoopla, I've been thinking about this game during the downtime and am going back and forth on you. I'd love it if you can help me understand your recent play.

As far as I can tell, you are townreading Michel, and Sotty7, maybe me and Victor. You are scumreading GM, TwoFace, and Jaack. Sotty7 has been consistently pushed as a counterwagon to the BBT-slot by your scumreads. So, how are you saying that the BBT/GreyICE wagon is going through without resistance when all your scumreads are either on the Sotty7 counterwagon or said that they would join it?

You also said having time to assess a claim is good. But to get claims, you need to put someone at L-1 with intent to hammer. If you unvote because you are afraid of a hammer, you won't get claims so I found that counterproductive because you'd be delaying a claim from someone that the majority including you agreed was a good wagon.

[VictorDeAngelo]

Can you post a list of your reads from town --> scum? Maybe even with scores if you're feeling friendly?

Just from the catchup, for instance ur unvote/contradiction from an earlier stance where you don't like to wait until deadline to get claims would have been a negative point:

Town: Cloud, Hoopla, BlackVoid, Victor, Sotty
Null/Town Lean: Rask, TwoFace, Michel, Maria
Null Scum: GoodMorning
Scum: GreyIce, Jaack

3 of the town reads dropped strong town tells (including yourself), both scum read dropped a early game scum tells in addition to poor posts. Good Morning to did not have one positive post either. BBT was the only of my scum reads to have a good post, and it was for his early vote on the Rask wagon since I saw something there early on. Of course Rask has since been more townie, so that one post doesn't offset the number of bad posts/scum tell that slot dropped.

I saw victor and black in the town slot and stopped reading

So you disagree on two reads and discount the whole list?
What do you think about the fact that his two strongest scumreads are GreyIce and Jack who you also want to lynch today?

[MariaR]

Can you post a list of your reads from town --> scum? Maybe even with scores if you're feeling friendly?

Just from the catchup, for instance ur unvote/contradiction from an earlier stance where you don't like to wait until deadline to get claims would have been a negative point:

Town: Cloud, Hoopla, BlackVoid, Victor, Sotty
Null/Town Lean: Rask, TwoFace, Michel, Maria
Null Scum: GoodMorning
Scum: GreyIce, Jaack

3 of the town reads dropped strong town tells (including yourself), both scum read dropped a early game scum tells in addition to poor posts. Good Morning to did not have one positive post either. BBT was the only of my scum reads to have a good post, and it was for his early vote on the Rask wagon since I saw something there early on. Of course Rask has since been more townie, so that one post doesn't offset the number of bad posts/scum tell that slot dropped.

I saw victor and black in the town slot and stopped reading

So you disagree on two reads and discount the whole list?
What do you think about the fact that his two strongest scumreads are GreyIce and Jack who you also want to lynch today?

What type of question is THIS I think that's great? gr8 he's still very wrong.
I feel like you only commented on this because you were 1 of the 2 reads in question.

[VictorDeAngelo]

So you disagree on two reads and discount the whole list?
What do you think about the fact that his two strongest scumreads are GreyIce and Jack who you also want to lynch today?

What type of question is THIS I think that's great? gr8 he's still very wrong.
I feel like you only commented on this because you were 1 of the 2 reads in question.[/quote]

Then why dismiss the list so abruptly?

[VictorDeAngelo]

EBWODP

So you disagree on two reads and discount the whole list?
What do you think about the fact that his two strongest scumreads are GreyIce and Jack who you also want to lynch today?

What type of question is THIS I think that's great? gr8 he's still very wrong.
I feel like you only commented on this because you were 1 of the 2 reads in question.

Then why dismiss the list so abruptly?