Mini Normal 1839 - Game Over!

[Tracer]

Other than that, my points still stand.

[PenguinPower]

Get back to me when you have a karnos read. Thx.

[Tracer]

I'll see you tomorrow then, because I gotta head out now for my late night shift.
Cya!

[Knighty Knight]

Knight, do you honestly think I was scumreading Alpaca over his avatar?

Is this the only thing you can say after being accused of scummy behaviour, not a single person thinks you are voting Alpaca because of his avatar, that is obviously a joke and you would have to be really stupid to believe that. So do us all a favour and stop saying "do you honestly think I was scumreading Alpaca over his avatar?"

[Nero Cain]

I have a gut scumread on you and I wanted to see how you reacted under pressure.

Lulz. Dude started the wagon and followed it with he hated the avatar. You're so serious.

continue tunneling someone for what reasons? A shitty avatar?

2. 47 forgets he already mentioned his poor reasons and trys to turn it on me

the only "reason" I mentioned here was that I, jokingly, scum read him for his avatar. Wich you apparently took it as serious. lol

and I think there is atleast one post where Alpaca whines about me scum reading for his avatar so yea, I'm not "pretending"

[aronagrundy]

It's not opportunistic voting if it only puts you at 3-4 votes and it takes 7 votes to hammer.......... Please stop using that word, it's tilting me.

Scum isn't just looking for opportunities to lynch, they're looking for opportunities to appear town while not actually contributing to the town.

And what do you think of karnos?

That is an open question to everyone.

His posts imply that he's read the thread thoroughly, but he hasn't really followed through with any of his questions. Which makes it seem like he's staying on the sidelines on purpose.

[aronagrundy]

Evidence for Aronagrundy

Next up is Aronagrundy. Arona's first vote in RVS (7) was Cmitc. Normally this wouldn't mean shit and still probably doesn't, however, if they were scum than they could be trying to disociate from each other right off the bat. Again, this could literally just be a random vote, but it could also be more then that (Illuminati confirmed). Now onto more concrete evidence, cuz I'm all about that.
1. 52 Arona votes me because "We need to get out of rvs somehow" but the post he quoted was me questioning Nero who, again, if they were all scum would make getting out of rvs a cover up for lynch the person questioning my scum partner. Also since this was still in RVS he could get away with it no questions asked.
2. 79 He also seems to be very ancy to lynch people as soon as possible, also possibly switching his vote from me to avoid suspicion later on.
3. 101 Still not sure wtf "It stood out to me so I pursued that weird feeling" means or why you would do it, but it seems like kind of a weird thing to do. Anyways, he mentions that Nero's joke wagon on Alpaca was with legit reasoning and should be taken seriously (Which btw I still don't agree with Nero's reasoning but whatever, I'll get back to that later). Again if they were scum partners they would try to back up eachothers arguments, even if they might not be the most legit.
4. 103 I guess this is an alright reason, but there are better reasons to lead a lynch wagon on someone.
5. 109 Protecting Nero
6. 114 Trying to say Nero's reason was serious, still don't think so, but this could again be trying to protect Nero or himself to get some heat off of him.
7. 127 Playing dumb?
8. 130 Iron saw what I did and now Arona is trying to defend himself while Nero is backing Arona up.

9. 140 Trying to validate Cmitc dropping his vote and then trying to turn on him to (possibly) dissociate Himself from Cmitc.

10. 145 Penguin possible target?
11. 149 Penguin sees Arona as scum as well
12. 151 Trying to play it off as a joke

TLDR of Aronagrundy scum read

Seems overly protective of Nero and Cmitc

(possible scum partners) and is a little to obvious about it.

(removed spoiler tags)

The bolded parts contradict each other. How am I being "overly protective" of cmitc if I'm also turning on him? Also, this post seems to be covering everything before you posted your reads list. Have your reads changed at all?

[LmkGuy]

Alright so looks like iron will actually make a lot of sense when he wants to .

I'm actually a bit concerned about Knighty Knight now. His first 9 posts were pretty null/useless and for the most part, post 91 was decent, but mostly a rehash of what people have already said. I can see this post coming from town, but also from scum trying to appear town...

[Nero Cain]

Alright so looks like iron will actually make a lot of sense when he wants to

What is he saying that makes sense?

[Nero Cain]

I feel like your scumread on me and town read on Iron are pretty reachy.

1. 31, 33, 34 In 31 "sheep me" is telling Cmitc (possible scum partner) to join him on the early game lynch so there are less townies to deal with later. In the others he just wants to get rid of Alpaca (sticking to RVS vote?)

I mean Alpaca's vote switch seemed pretty uneeded and his reasoning in 32 seems pretty fake. I mean you are basically calling Alpaca town here but there's no way that you know Alpaca is town unless you are scum. Isn't that what you are accusing me of? So you are scum by your own standards? Also the whole me getting Cmit to sheep me b/c we are buddies seems pretty silly. I also had Tracer sheep me so why am I scum with Cmti but not Tracer?

2. 47 forgets he already mentioned his poor reasons and trys to turn it on me

good thing I didn't. Gut reactions are like the only thing to push early game and even in the late game players still have gut reactions. Also two of your town reads have said the understood where I was coming from. While you don't

have

to agree with your town reads both Stove and LmkGuy have more experience than you unless you are an alt claiming that you are new. But if my gut read was unpush worthy what was push worthy?

3. 93 Trying to make it look like Iron is defending Alpaca in a scummy way even though he "gut voted" a serious train and was sticking with it like he knew Alpaca was an opposing alignment (what I mean by this is that Nero could be scum and Alpaca town or for some reason Nero knows that Alpaca is scum and he is town. Although idk how that would be possible).

How is this any different than you having scumreads on ppl that defended me/I defended them? Why do you think town would post something like that?

4. 111 Gut read shouldn't be a reason to push someone like you already know their alignment.

You know. Unless there's a mechanical guilty or a flatout scumclaim or something all pushes are essentially gut. There was also a ton more than just my gut reaction to his early posts. I didn't like his switch to Karnos for F all reason, he didn't seem like his town meta and lack of reaction to getting wagoned.

7. 166, 167 This would help the argument that Iron's play style is pushing for information. Also penguin unvoted and that makes it kind of hard to hammer if you still need one person...

This is prob the biggest problem. I don't really see Iron "pushing for information" or anything like that. I don't even know what that is...I think. You mean like a reaction test? I also think you are missing the point here. Yes he couldn't hammer b/c of PP's unvote but that doesn't explain why he's so against the wagon after offering lukewarm support. I mean your interpretation here is that he's doing things for information so he threatened to hammer to get a reaction out of players but I just don't really agree. His 166 is basically a dodge.

[Nero Cain]

I think his play looks a little different

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=68000

and

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=67705

but I think I know what Tracer is getting at so I'd maybe be ok with letting him live a day or 2.

[ironstove]

Oh my, I got votes on me for not posting much.
And it's going to get worse because I'll be like this until Friday!

Anyway, I got few questions about who I wanted to vote and why.
A lot of them wasn't because I was scurmeading them, but rather because I just hated their posts.

I'll save myself time naming them because they have been already discussed plenty and at this point.
Ya know, penguin, iron, knight, etc. (Yeah, I see you facepalming there. I know. I know.)

SCUM DETECTED, LYNCH TRACER ASAP.

People, the post above me is a generic strategy of lazy/afk scum 101... Please gather your votes and remove the scum tracer out of the game. Thank you.

[ironstove]

Ok, so I want someone lynched in the {Nero, Arun, Tracer, Saru} subset.

[Nero Cain]

but you could say the same about Knight and Alpaca so why is hers scummier?

[ironstove]

Hey Nero, you're mafia aren't you?

[Nero Cain]

no

[ironstove]

It seems like you're making deep concerted efforts to throw off my algorithm by intentionally leaving the 'no' uncapitalized.

I will hunt you and your partners down, for now I will let you live and take out your weaker partner Tracer.

[Nero Cain]

lol

I think you are Alpaca buddy and thats why you "threatened" to hammer and then when the wagon didn't look like it was going to go through you were all "WE SHOULDN'T BE VOTING THIS GUY!"

[Knighty Knight]

I feel like your scumread on me and town read on Iron are pretty reachy.

Spoiler:

1. 31, 33, 34 In 31 "sheep me" is telling Cmitc (possible scum partner) to join him on the early game lynch so there are less townies to deal with later. In the others he just wants to get rid of Alpaca (sticking to RVS vote?)

I mean Alpaca's vote switch seemed pretty uneeded and his reasoning in 32 seems pretty fake. I mean you are basically calling Alpaca town here but there's no way that you know Alpaca is town unless you are scum. Isn't that what you are accusing me of? So you are scum by your own standards? Also the whole me getting Cmit to sheep me b/c we are buddies seems pretty silly. I also had Tracer sheep me so why am I scum with Cmti but not Tracer?

2. 47 forgets he already mentioned his poor reasons and trys to turn it on me

good thing I didn't. Gut reactions are like the only thing to push early game and even in the late game players still have gut reactions. Also two of your town reads have said the understood where I was coming from. While you don't

have

to agree with your town reads both Stove and LmkGuy have more experience than you unless you are an alt claiming that you are new. But if my gut read was unpush worthy what was push worthy?

3. 93 Trying to make it look like Iron is defending Alpaca in a scummy way even though he "gut voted" a serious train and was sticking with it like he knew Alpaca was an opposing alignment (what I mean by this is that Nero could be scum and Alpaca town or for some reason Nero knows that Alpaca is scum and he is town. Although idk how that would be possible).

How is this any different than you having scumreads on ppl that defended me/I defended them? Why do you think town would post something like that?

4. 111 Gut read shouldn't be a reason to push someone like you already know their alignment.

You know. Unless there's a mechanical guilty or a flatout scumclaim or something all pushes are essentially gut. There was also a ton more than just my gut reaction to his early posts. I didn't like his switch to Karnos for F all reason, he didn't seem like his town meta and lack of reaction to getting wagoned.

7. 166, 167 This would help the argument that Iron's play style is pushing for information. Also penguin unvoted and that makes it kind of hard to hammer if you still need one person...

This is prob the biggest problem. I don't really see Iron "pushing for information" or anything like that. I don't even know what that is...I think. You mean like a reaction test? I also think you are missing the point here. Yes he couldn't hammer b/c of PP's unvote but that doesn't explain why he's so against the wagon after offering lukewarm support. I mean your interpretation here is that he's doing things for information so he threatened to hammer to get a reaction out of players but I just don't really agree. His 166 is basically a dodge.

You asked for my reasons and I put a disclaimer saying that some probably wouldn't agree with them, that was my interpretation based off of what was said leading up to my read list. As for 284 I am not very experienced so I thought I would pull out some conspiracy shit and see what people thought of it. My wall of text was partially responding to your request to explain, partially to spark some conversation, and partially to get my thoughts out in text. As for how Iron plays, that was my interpretation of it, I haven't played with him in any other games so idk how he plays, this was honestly a stretch, but I thought maybe it was possible. Also idk if this is a coincidence, but you, Arona, and Cmitc have posts that conected very conveniently as I said in my post.

[Knighty Knight]

Idk why the text is yellow... ^

[Knighty Knight]

282 those were my opinions, not sure how those could be read as scummy... I was taking other people's reasoning and meshing it with mine to create reasons that more people might understand

[Knighty Knight]

@Aronagrundy
281 You seemd to protect him, but then realise you might have been to obvious, which is where you try to distance yourself from him (sorry if it wasn't very clear, I wrote that in a long go recently after I had woken up) also That post based off of posts before my read list, so after I read these a little more indepth I will probably post about my new thoughts.

[malpascp]

Whoa wtf is going on. So much to catch on already.

V/LA huge workload for the next 3 days, might be able to come here once a day but not sure

[Nero Cain]

@knight

I think his play looks a little different

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=68000

and

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=67705

^
town games. read em and compare them to his play here.

[karnos]

And what do you think of karnos?

That is an open question to everyone.

I'm pretty sure he is town.