In post 174, Nero Cain wrote:knight can you explain your scum reads and the iron town read?
I can explain, but first, this was in no particular order (I don't know if there is a particular order or something). This was also created after reading everything before my read list (169).
Now to get into Iron town read and scum reads. Although some of his posts up until 169 were a bit... questionable, to me, he seems like the kind of player that is trying to pressure other players into creating content/ slipping up and giving something away that himself or others can work with. I will toss some examples below but remember this is in my eyes, so obviously your opinion will probably be different.
Evidence for Ironstove
Spoiler:
1. 60 I saw this as trying to get a reaction out of possible scum partners or anyone that might give up some info about role (maybe not who knows).
2. 61 as well as 60 he is letting his (possible) role be known for future reference. Possibly trying to see if anyone else had a reason to or not to lynch right then and there. "Well, maybe not an hour, but by the time I get back which might be a whiles." Giving some people time to either dispute this while also keeping pressure on Alpaca.
3. 69 Penguin might have been scum partner here, so his tactic from above worked (or that was just penguin not wanting to RVS lynch someone 3 pages in). 73 Also, again, pressuring/ questioning penguin for possible alignment or slip up in any way.
4. 117, 118, 120, 122, 124 (these was part of the questionable posts I mentioned above) This could still be him trying to get a reaction.
5. 128 Again pushing a reaction from arona.
6. 162, 163 legitimate arguments, lol.
7. 166 Again questioning for a legitimate reason, trying to get something out of Nero.
This was more or less why I think Iron is town and what I think his play style is. For all I know he is scum and this will reinforce his town read, but for now, I believe him to be town just trying to make scum slip up early. This might also give good reference for future if people start contradicting themselves.
TLDR of Iron town read
I think his play style is the type to push others into releasing info about themselves which can be read to give possible insight on their alignment. This is also why I think he is town (above is mostly evidence supporting my belief)
Evidence for Cmitc1
Spoiler:
Alright, now we get into scum reads. I am going to order this from least to most posts because that's how I want to do it rn. I'll start with Cmitc1
Up until the point of my read list Cmitc hadn't really said anything with good substance to it, and the accusations/ RVS stuff (53) seemed to pretty much be just that (although he changed his vote like 3 times 29, 53, 83{seemed to scare him off of the wagon?} which again maybe just RVS things, but that was about half way through page 3 so idk), what got me to read him as scum were the posts from LMK 84, 87, 91 and Iron 162. These had concrete reasoning and at the time were good evidence agaisnt one of the few people being scum read.
TLDR of Cmitc1 scum read
Up until 169 he had weak evidnece and posts leading me to and others to believe he had something going on behind the scenes.
Evidence for Aronagrundy
Spoiler:
Next up is Aronagrundy. Arona's first vote in RVS (7) was Cmitc. Normally this wouldn't mean shit and still probably doesn't, however, if they were scum than they could be trying to disociate from each other right off the bat. Again, this could literally just be a random vote, but it could also be more then that (Illuminati confirmed). Now onto more concrete evidence, cuz I'm all about that.
1. 52 Arona votes me because "We need to get out of rvs somehow" but the post he quoted was me questioning Nero who, again, if they were all scum would make getting out of rvs a cover up for lynch the person questioning my scum partner. Also since this was still in RVS he could get away with it no questions asked.
2. 79 He also seems to be very ancy to lynch people as soon as possible, also possibly switching his vote from me to avoid suspicion later on.
3. 101 Still not sure wtf "It stood out to me so I pursued that weird feeling" means or why you would do it, but it seems like kind of a weird thing to do. Anyways, he mentions that Nero's joke wagon on Alpaca was with legit reasoning and should be taken seriously (Which btw I still don't agree with Nero's reasoning but whatever, I'll get back to that later). Again if they were scum partners they would try to back up eachothers arguments, even if they might not be the most legit.
4. 103 I guess this is an alright reason, but there are better reasons to lead a lynch wagon on someone.
5. 109 Protecting Nero
6. 114 Trying to say Nero's reason was serious, still don't think so, but this could again be trying to protect Nero or himself to get some heat off of him.
7. 127 Playing dumb?
8. 130 Iron saw what I did and now Arona is trying to defend himself while Nero is backing Arona up.
9. 140 Trying to validate Cmitc dropping his vote and then trying to turn on him to (possibly) dissociate Himself from Cmitc.
10. 145 Penguin possible target?
11. 149 Penguin sees Arona as scum as well
12. 151 Trying to play it off as a joke
TLDR of Aronagrundy scum read
Seems overly protective of Nero and Cmitc (possible scum partners) and is a little to obvious about it.
Evidence for Nerocain
Spoiler:
Alright friendos finally we have the person inquiring my read list (which is fine and I actually had fun writing this) Nerocain. From RVS Nero had a random vote against Alpaca (no issues) and other people for no reason hoped on the lynch train (fuck it right?). Although you have all read this, his reasons for pushing Alpaca so hard are kind of iffy (77) and had little to no reinforcability.
1. 31, 33, 34 In 31 "sheep me" is telling Cmitc (possible scum partner) to join him on the early game lynch so there are less townies to deal with later. In the others he just wants to get rid of Alpaca (sticking to RVS vote?)
2. 47 forgets he already mentioned his poor reasons and trys to turn it on me
3. 93 Trying to make it look like Iron is defending Alpaca in a scummy way even though he "gut voted" a serious train and was sticking with it like he knew Alpaca was an opposing alignment (what I mean by this is that Nero could be scum and Alpaca town or for some reason Nero knows that Alpaca is scum and he is town. Although idk how that would be possible).
4. 111 Gut read shouldn't be a reason to push someone like you already know their alignment.
5. 150 I personally think LmK's post om Cmtic is way more valid than a couple of "gut reads" because there was actual evidence.
6. 160 Protecting Cmitc while also pointing out a weak lead on him being scum as to make him seem like they aren't partners.
7. 166, 167 This would help the argument that Iron's play style is pushing for information. Also penguin unvoted and that makes it kind of hard to hammer if you still need one person...
TLDR of Nerocain scum read
He is playing like he already knows everyones alignments which would make sense if he were scum. He pushes with illegitimate reasons and trys to cover it up by calling other people out for defending.
In post 194, ironstove wrote:You really said I'm posting hollow statements as the guy who told everyone to sheep his vote on RVS then proceeds to continue tunneling someone for what reasons? A shitty avatar? I initially thought you surely have to either be shitty rxn testing me/alpaca but now I think you're being serious. Are you seriously asking me why Alpaca is not a good lynch? How about you explain to me why he's a good lynch?
^
is how I feel about that post.
Like lets take a look at what you've done. You threatened to hammer without any reason and then when PP unvotes you are like "oh well no reason we should lynch this now!" Like what? That doesn't even make a lick of sense.
My vote and continued pressure on Alpaca had nothing to do with an avatar.
In post 197, Saru wrote:Alpaca is either playing stupid or really is just stupid. Same goes for iron. One is probably scum though, in my experience. I'll let time tell which one it is.
If you think one of them is scum why are you not voting one of them?
Like how can anyone townread Iron at this point? That Whole "I'm going to hammer>>>>oh there's no reason for me to vote him now is just really scummy and whenever he's asked about it he gets defensive and dodges.
Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
In post 159, ironstove wrote:This guy still seriously thinks that alpaca is a good lynch.
What has Alpalca done that's so townie that I should move on and let him coast?
We put him at L-1 I was going to hammer and flip him belly up, but the wagon was broken. We got plenty of information of off that RVS on him, so there is no point tunneling in him, if he's scum we can save him for later, now it's time to lynch arun.
Knight, do you honestly think I was scumreading Alpaca over his avatar?
Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
Oh my, I got votes on me for not posting much.
And it's going to get worse because I'll be like this until Friday!
Anyway, I got few questions about who I wanted to vote and why.
A lot of them wasn't because I was scurmeading them, but rather because I just hated their posts.
I'll save myself time naming them because they have been already discussed plenty and at this point.
Ya know, penguin, iron, knight, etc. (Yeah, I see you facepalming there. I know. I know.)
, wont join you on that wagon yet, but I'll join you if the case develops further
Knight why do you town read this guy if you think my logic for voting for Alpaca is so silly.
Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
In post 93, Nero Cain wrote:I also did not like this post much. If he's town then this was unnecessary WIFOM. Part of me thinks that as scum he wouldn't say something that paints a big ole' target on him but the timming of this was also strange FMPOV. This is about the time that the Alpaca wagon started to get somewhat serious and I had felt that his vote switch to Karnos was so he could bandwagon someone that was not him.
I
kinda
have a different view on iron's post, but I think it's probably best not to comment.
I thought about that too but meh, I consider it pretty bad play and town really should never ever do it.
Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
In post 262, Tracer wrote:Fun to note that #104 sounded like penguin jumped in a hurry.
Do explain. Jumped on what exactly?
Oh, and your thoughts on karnos?
It was pretty obvious what you said there just wasn't true and I believe that you wouldn't have said that yourself if you actually took a bit of time reading Nero's post. Hence I think you rushed that one.
Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
