STEVEN UNIVERSE 2 - GAME OVER

[mastin2]

This strongly suggests that if Creature is scum Xkfyku is not scum.

Not happening because you are wrong, Creature is not scum.

Snarky is voting not town.

This is you making a false assumption, off of farside being scum.

farside isn't flipping scum.

I guarantee you.
Your whole damn analysis falls apart, because EVERYTHING.
Literally

everything

.
You are writing.
Is relying on that one. fucking. read. Which I guarantee you is wrong.
Not for any role-reasons.
But because farside just isn't scum here no matter how much I want her to be.
The more and more people push her as scum, and the more they present 'reasons' for it, the less and less I'm inclined to actually follow them, because the less and less I see them making anything I'd even consider passable as a point.

Meanwhile Snarky and Creature are voting scum. The first two voters on a scum wagon when there

must

be a town wagon for them to choose.

Yeah!
Exactly!
We had two large wagons, on town players,

driven by town players

.
SnarkySnowman had NO incentive to vote there.
He had EVERY incentive to vote SirCakez as a distancing vote, because his vote was harmless.
What did he do the MOMENT SirCakez got traction?

He hopped off the wagon.

Dual iso SnarkySnowman, and Varsoon. Literally the

moment

SirCakez gets a wagon, he switches onto farside.

Snarky has moved back to Farside, who by her own confession is not town.

Any "not town" that is not groupscum can, and SHOULD, be counted as town for the purposes of VCA. This is really fucking basic logic. I don't give a damn if farside's town or third party. As long as she's not groupscum--and she's not--she counts as town for VCA.

Farside is distancing from Cakey here, since she never went back when he was under the threat of lynch.

You say this of farside, but ignore it for SnarkySnowman. SnarkySnowman jumped on when it was safe. farside's vote was the THIRD on SirCakez.

She turned it into a wagon

.

The distancing vote was, therefore, SnarkySnowman. NOT farside.

All of your VCA is using those assumptions.
You've had pre-existing scumreads on Creature, Skybird, and farside basically the whole game, with a scumread on RR existing on-and-off.

Snarky votes SirCakez back, but Creature never does. A Farside wagon emerges after the wagon on SirCakez is destined to be lynched.

And, if you're paying attention...you'd note Snarky hopes on the wagon in prime bussing range...hops

off

the wagon onto farside (seriously, iso him and the mod!), then when that fails, comes back on. It's almost like he was trying to get a COUNTERWAGON going or something to SAVE SirCakez.

[Titus]

This strongly suggests that if Creature is scum Xkfyku is not scum.

Not happening because you are wrong, Creature is not scum.

Snarky is voting not town.

This is you making a false assumption, off of farside being scum.

farside isn't flipping scum.

I guarantee you.
Your whole damn analysis falls apart, because EVERYTHING.
Literally

everything

.
You are writing.
Is relying on that one. fucking. read. Which I guarantee you is wrong.
Not for any role-reasons.
But because farside just isn't scum here no matter how much I want her to be.
The more and more people push her as scum, and the more they present 'reasons' for it, the less and less I'm inclined to actually follow them, because the less and less I see them making anything I'd even consider passable as a point.

Meanwhile Snarky and Creature are voting scum. The first two voters on a scum wagon when there

must

be a town wagon for them to choose.

Yeah!
Exactly!
We had two large wagons, on town players,

driven by town players

.
SnarkySnowman had NO incentive to vote there.
He had EVERY incentive to vote SirCakez as a distancing vote, because his vote was harmless.
What did he do the MOMENT SirCakez got traction?

He hopped off the wagon.

Dual iso SnarkySnowman, and Varsoon. Literally the

moment

SirCakez gets a wagon, he switches onto farside.

Snarky has moved back to Farside, who by her own confession is not town.

Any "not town" that is not groupscum can, and SHOULD, be counted as town for the purposes of VCA. This is really fucking basic logic. I don't give a damn if farside's town or third party. As long as she's not groupscum--and she's not--she counts as town for VCA.

Farside is distancing from Cakey here, since she never went back when he was under the threat of lynch.

You say this of farside, but ignore it for SnarkySnowman. SnarkySnowman jumped on when it was safe. farside's vote was the THIRD on SirCakez.

She turned it into a wagon

.

The distancing vote was, therefore, SnarkySnowman. NOT farside.

All of your VCA is using those assumptions.
You've had pre-existing scumreads on Creature, Skybird, and farside basically the whole game, with a scumread on RR existing on-and-off.

Snarky votes SirCakez back, but Creature never does. A Farside wagon emerges after the wagon on SirCakez is destined to be lynched.

And, if you're paying attention...you'd note Snarky hopes on the wagon in prime bussing range...hops

off

the wagon onto farside (seriously, iso him and the mod!), then when that fails, comes back on. It's almost like he was trying to get a COUNTERWAGON going or something to SAVE SirCakez.

Mastina, the more people tell you you're wrong, the less you're inclined to engage. That reeks to me that you're the one who is confbiasing. Your whole view seems to depend on Farside as town. That wall you asked those questions with, it's like SirCakez times 10.

My view on Snarky doesn't depend on Farside being scum, she just is. What would you seriously consider a point on Mastina if lying, obstruction, and not full claiming are not good enough?

[mastin2]

If DGB was scum, why would the scumteam feel confident enough to mass no vote?

It's almost like people are forgetting that we have a traitor in the game.
That, or they are forgetting how traitors work.

DGB's not confscum, you're right. DGB's got a chance of being town. She's got a much higher chance of being scum. The main question isn't "town or scum?", it's "groupscum or traitor?". With the outside possibility of being town.

Why's he first on the scene when town are starting to perk their ears to the rambles of cakescum.
And never around to sift through solving the textual forest that is this game with the rest of us.

Basically, this.

SnarkySnowman was the first to vote SirCakez...but immediately backed out of that when it was just beginning to look like it was actually a possible lynch.

SnarkySnowman jumped back on the wagon as the tenth voter, immediately after Reasonably Rational.
Again, optimum bussing position.

These are post trying to create a connection to a player they know is scum.
Snarky votes, then unvote cakez when the wagon starts going. Then jumps on when the wagon is full steam.

Also this.

He tried to Strongarm a lynch away from RR and NC onto Farside though. At sometime, you give up and go to the acceptable second.

Yes, which...
...There is absolutely no consequences to if all the players in question are town!

I think RR, Creature, Farside, Skybird, Shadow. Thoughts?

You'd be

lucky

to find one scum in there.

LUCKY.

Especially since, as

mathematically proven by the Beach event

, half those names

cannot

be scum.
RR, Skybird, and farside were all top voters. There could be one scum in the top voters, yes. There cannot be three. It is a physical impossibility. Furthermore! Furthermore, for farside to be scum, both RR and Skybird MUST be town no matter what because I don't care HOW big the scumteam is, they don't have enough votes to pull off faking farside's town vote AND faking a second vote.

You're not connecting the dots, Titus.

[mastin2]

Mastin have you ever actually played with Snarky?

Looking things up, I don't think so (if I did, probably as a hydra), but it doesn't matter. Lurky, low-content, borderline-village-idiots are NOT unreadable. There's town ways of them pushing, and scum ways of them pushing, and SnarkySnowman is in the scum way. This is not some objective, universal standard I'm using. This is a standard specific to his profile as a player. Same way as my read on farside is not an objective universal standard; it's based specifically on her profile, and what I know of her.

I might not know much about SnarkySnowman. But I know enough about him to know what is, and is not, a sign of town. Takes one to know one, you could say. Been a lurker village idiot, know how lurker village idiots think.

Titus has made very good points in regards to how he voted.

...Which rely entirely on farside being scum. And I do mean. ENTIRELY.

The policy lynch being pushed right now is the lynch on farside. Not the lynch on SnarkySnowman.

[mastin2]

even if Farside is town and lying about being 3p for some reason, he didn't need to beg for Farside votes. He could have compromised or lurked.

For the compromising: why?
Why?

I ask.
Why would he need to?

Assume RR town.
Assume Not Chara town.
Both of those are good assumptions.
SirCakez wasn't on either of those wagons, now, was he?
The closest we have to a

possible

scum name on there is DGB, and she's more likely to be a traitor than she is to be groupscum.

If SirCakez, scum, felt no incentive to be on either of the lead wagons...
...Why would SnarkySnowman, as scum, feel any differently?

He wouldn't. Rather the opposite: he'd have that same motivation to stay off and do his own thing.

As for the lurking...

Did you READ his iso?
That's exactly what he did!

[Almost50]

@Mastina:

Perhaps you missed it, but I specifically requested you stop clearing people w/o providing evidence. You can repeat yourself about Creature not being town a hundred timws, and it still won't change my stance a single inch. Creature is my top scum read.

You can also defend farside all you wish, but her anti-town behaviour is better dealt with now than later.

The same could be said about Firebringer, albeit to a lesser degree.

Finally, I could compromise on DGB 'though I essentially agree the traitor is of less priority at this time, but they could still be recalled to the main team anytime, so there's that.

If you want me to vote outside these 4, I'm afraid "I assure you.. " and "I'm confident.." won't do. You'd need to both provide a convincing case on someone else AND convince me these 4 are not scum.. analytically.

[Not Chara]

well, good news, Almost. c=
Snarky is scum regardless of those other reads.
DGB could be the traitor. i would lynch there too.

[mastin2]

I am trying to reach out to Mastina as I strongly feel she is wrong and dividing the town.

Then don't piss me off by lynching farside!

I'm not wrong here.

GOD I wish I was.

I want to be wrong, I really, really do.
You have no clue how much it'd be easier, so fucking much easier, if farside was scum. To have the shitfest finally end with it revealed that the main person causing our woes was against us for damn good reason.
It'd also be just so damn simple for me to let her die. It'd be pathetically easy. All I'd have to do is stop defending her.

Not.
even.
cast.
a.
vote.

Just stop defending her, and she'd die.

But, dammit.
I'm

not

wrong.

I really, really do wish I was. That it was this easy, this simple, that farside would just be scum and all our woes, all our troubles, would be over because things would just play out like a fucking fairy tale. The person who is obviously the bad girl gets killed, the heroes go on to fight another day, triumphant.

So tempting

.
To just let it happen, and show you that, yes, I was right.

But goddammit.
I can't let that go.

Farside won't flip scum.
And ANY piece of analysis assuming she will is going to similarly be worthless.

[Titus]

even if Farside is town and lying about being 3p for some reason, he didn't need to beg for Farside votes. He could have compromised or lurked.

For the compromising: why?
Why?

I ask.
Why would he need to?

Assume RR town.
Assume Not Chara town.
Both of those are good assumptions.
SirCakez wasn't on either of those wagons, now, was he?
The closest we have to a

possible

scum name on there is DGB, and she's more likely to be a traitor than she is to be groupscum.

If SirCakez, scum, felt no incentive to be on either of the lead wagons...
...Why would SnarkySnowman, as scum, feel any differently?

He wouldn't. Rather the opposite: he'd have that same motivation to stay off and do his own thing.

As for the lurking...

Did you READ his iso?
That's exactly what he did!

And you are clearly not following through.

Snarky has zero motivation to bus, and that's what you're trying to convince me of. Not going to happen. If town is do inept, scum are not as likely to suddenly wake up and bus themselves. They distance and demolish as Farside did.

You're supposing each scum act at the exact same time to do the exact same thing. Some distance yo discredit a growing wagon.

That's even supposing Farside town.

You're also overestimating what the beach event proves. No slot is clear but we know certain slots cannot be scum together.

Farside needs two silent voters.
Rr needs one.
Three silent voters total.

So yeah, all three cannot be group scum, am I rallying against RR like I am Farside? No. Farside could very well be evil 3p, then all of those work.

I am fully aware of what is and is not possible for group scum. When I say scum, I mean "not with town".

Farside is always going to be on that list until she ends the shit fest by being protown.

Farside is copying the exact TACTICS scum used.

[mastin2]

Like ... I personally find it basically not believable that Varsoon went and read that monstrous game and pulled out my fake claims and turned it into a role, or that he just happened to make exactly that role.

Well, while farside was in that game (though she replaced out, maybe before you had publicly claimed--that'd be important! If she didn't see the claim she couldn't have known it), she

also

knows that there are no less than FOUR people (Skybird, you, me, and TWIE) who are familiar with that game. In other words: she would know it would never ever EVER creep past our watchful eyes.

Especially

neither yours nor mine.

In other words: she wouldn't invent that as a fakeclaim.
And, we know that V's safeclaims are just as good as real roles.
Ergo, if farside didn't bullshit her claim, it was either her real role, or a fakeclaim given to her by Varsoon.
In either case, this point is not one I see as valid, for exactly that reason.

farside wouldn't claim something she absolutely KNEW would get her lynched.
If it wasn't her, it was Varsoon.
So deal with it.

I think an honest Farside would have engaged and bent over backwards to work with us.

An honest, reasonable farside is a fucking SCUM farside.

[mastin2]

Listen, I get that she called you scum and you kind read as taking offense but it also reads fake. Vote snarky or vote Dbg, hell vote me, but that argument isn't going to solve anything.

Pretty much, yeah!

[mastin2]

The people who allied with yume seem to have polar opinions on farside. This is pretty weird and I'm trying to figure out what's going on here, stop calling this fishing

Oh hey, a kraskaesque post worth pointing out!

Okay, so this is pretty much textbook scum middlemanning. What's the term I used for this before?
Ah, yes.
Peacekeeping.

This is a scum peacekeeper.

Remember how I said Titus was a town peacekeeper? I described it way back near the very beginning of D2.
In that wall, 3381, I describe what a scum peacekeeper is.

And this?

THIS is the scum counterpart.

[farside22]

yes we agree, farside could go with kraska/fb if they want

This is where I'm going.
Rr: if all I was going to do was get into an alliance and blow it up for points, i'd done it with sky and nc.

Farside, if you want there to be ANY chance you don't die tomorrow, we need you to claim details about this point thing.

How many you have.
How many you gain from lynch attempts.
How many you gain from being targeted.
How many you gain from dissolving alliances.
How many you need in order to achieve your win con.
How rhe extra voting thing works/what it costs you in points.

The reason why we can't trust you to not blow up an alliance is the fact that we don't know how far away from your win con you are now. Maybe the extra points weren't worth it then, but they're worth it now because you'll achieve your win con.

-Cerb

Ill respond but I'm betting money you'll call be a liar.
Currently 14 points
I get 2 points for lynch attempts
1 point gained for each player that targets me with an action.
I gain 1 point for every person in the alliance that I dissolved.
Need 20 points total.
Each extra vote cost me one KP. So example 3 votes means 3kp.
I do have a few things I gained points from that I haven't claimed.

[mastin2]

Mastin and moi having polar opinions on farside should have made people inclined to ask wtf is going on

Like.
Town peacekeeping: recognizing the issue, trying to resolve it, and give direction to it.
Scum peacekeeping: pointing the issue out and doing fuckall to solve it.

Tell me which of the above this peacekeeping post is?

[mastin2]

mastin, we can lynch Snarky after farside uses her ability. fair?

I don't see what it'd accomplish, but I'm not opposed.
It just proves what we already know, like I said.

[Titus]

Mastin and moi having polar opinions on farside should have made people inclined to ask wtf is going on

Like.
Town peacekeeping: recognizing the issue, trying to resolve it, and give direction to it.
Scum peacekeeping: pointing the issue out and doing fuckall to solve it.

Tell me which of the above this peacekeeping post is?

The town version. People need to be talking about this to help reach a resolution. Sometimes players don't have all the answers.

A scum peacekeeper just tells everyone to play nice and see it the other way. Kraska wants to get to the bottom of this here and know why.

I rarely back off from my beliefs about slips but I think I was wrong before.

[mastin2]

It's really getting to me that each of you has her own "couple of players" she insists on being Town for no apparent reason.

Maybe, just maybe, that's because I have damn good reason to be saying these things!

(This post, by the way? Town peacekeeper. He tries to dissolve the conflict and give input. Contrast kraskaesque.)

WHY?

~Reasons~ best left unsaid.
That's not a play-based read.

[Titus]

Wow

Welp, I am undecided, if farside22 can't win with scum, they can't turn against us.

This is scum peacekeeping Mastina.

[mastin2]

[quote="In post 8089, Varsoon"

Farside22 (LYNCH?):

Titus

,

SnarkySnowman

,

MagnaofIllusion

, TheWayItEnds,

DrippingGoofball

,

Skybird

,

Yume

,

Xkfyu

,

Not Chara

,

McMenno

,

Kraskaeaque

,

Almost50

DrippingGoofball (3):

Shiro

, Thefuzzylogic99,

Creature

SnarkySnowman (3):

mastin2

,

grapes

,

Farside22

Kraskaesque (1):

Shadow_Step

Shadow_Step (1):

Firebringer

Not Voting (2):

Reasonably Rational,

randomidget

[/quote] Justsayin'.

[mastin2]

Also,
VOTE: SnarkySnowman.

[mastin2]

Farside22 (LYNCH?):

Titus

,

SnarkySnowman

,

MagnaofIllusion

, TheWayItEnds,

DrippingGoofball

,

Skybird

,

Yume

,

Xkfyu

,

Not Chara

,

McMenno

,

Kraskaeaque

,

Almost50

DrippingGoofball (3):

Shiro

, Thefuzzylogic99,

Creature

SnarkySnowman (3):

mastin2

,

grapes

,

Farside22

Kraskaesque (1):

Shadow_Step

Shadow_Step (1):

Firebringer

Not Voting (2):

Reasonably Rational,

randomidget

Justsayin'.

Fixed.

[farside22]

Mastin and moi having polar opinions on farside should have made people inclined to ask wtf is going on

Like.
Town peacekeeping: recognizing the issue, trying to resolve it, and give direction to it.
Scum peacekeeping: pointing the issue out and doing fuckall to solve it.

Tell me which of the above this peacekeeping post is?

The town version. People need to be talking about this to help reach a resolution. Sometimes players don't have all the answers.

A scum peacekeeper just tells everyone to play nice and see it the other way. Kraska wants to get to the bottom of this here and know why.

I rarely back off from my beliefs about slips but I think I was wrong before.

I actually agree with Titus read of kraska.

What do you call a player that is scum that keeps the antagonism going and going with wild encouragement?
I call it moi but wondered if there was a name for it.

[mastin2]

Hi mastin, farside lynch already happened and is tomorrow's battle to fight, your proposed lynch is being propelled forward, please look at the alliances situation and figure out where you're going to fit in.

It was suggested ages ago that I do McMenno-Not Chara.
I am not opposed to that.
But I am under the impression that combo is no longer viable.

However.
I've made it clear in no uncertain terms who my scumreads are.
I will reject any alliance that has kraska, DGB, randomidget, or SnarkySnowman as a part of it.
Literally any other names I'll accept.

[DrippingGoofball]

Guys from my interactions in the PT with professional lurksack TWIE I'm going to say he's scum

[DrippingGoofball]

It's been like pulling teeth