STEVEN UNIVERSE 2 - GAME OVER

[Reasonably Rational]

Oh, my previous point regarding balance only applies if a theoretical gem but not town victory would end the game. If the game would continue, but the gems are removed or something, there would obviously need to be balance of some sort(unless as a side effect of attaining their goals, x scum are killed or something).

-Cerb

[Yume]

Um, if we go by flavor alone, then we would have to remove Bismuth as well....

That's not the case though. And yes, you have my word alone, so take it or leave it.

[Yume]

And yes, I suspect there is a scum among us, but I decided to trust in the rest, at least until such is made apparent.

[Reasonably Rational]

Well sure. Valid point.

When did you tell Titus about Peridot, and WHY did you tell the thread? Titus seemed completely unaware of the second 3p possibility when I first broached the subject.

-Cerb

[Almost50]

Yume, YOU ROCK!

VOTE: farside

Can you do it again??

[Yume]

No, I can't vote twice.

[Yume]

@RR Just because.

[Reasonably Rational]

And when?

-Cerb

[Yume]

When it happened.

[Almost50]

No, I can't vote twice.

ROTFL.

What I meant was YOU ROCK for voting farside again. The "Can you do it again?" though was directed at her. I was asking farside if she could escape the lynch twice in a row.

[Yume]

Funny, because.....I am a rock.

[Titus]

VOTE: Snarky

A promise is a promise.

Tomorrow, when Snarky flips town, we lynch Farside.

[Not Chara]

VOTE: snarky

[grapes]

VOTE: Snarky

[Reasonably Rational]

Logical Alliance:	Titus	Reasonably Rational	Shiro	Baking Cookies that melt your heart.
Stephen's Angels:	Yume	Magna of Illusion	Almost50	Preventing the illusion of complacency when almost there.
X marks the random spot	Xfkyu	Shadow_Step	randomidget*	Taking shadowy steps to win
Not Charring Alive*	Not Chara	McMenno	grapes	Titus's recommended alliance of win.
Shooting for the Sky*	Skybird	Creature	FuzzyLogic	Experimenting with interesting combinations
Assembling the Truth Squad*	Mastin2	Firebringer	Kraskaesque	Progressing forward without teeth.
The remainders*	Snarky	DGB	twie	Creating a unified position

Everything with a * is my recommendation.

How accurate is this? We want DGB+TWIE to continue their alliance tomorrow, assuming a snarky lynch here? We don't want farside allied with anyone, right?

Why is mastin with kraska? She doesn't want her buff to be shared with scum reads, and she's scumreading kraska.

Random, do you object?
NC/McMenno/grapes, you all agreed right? I believe I saw that?
Skybird/Creature/Fuzzy?

-Cerb

[McMenno]

yes we agree, farside could go with kraska/fb if they want

[Reasonably Rational]

Well we don't want to give farside "points" if we can avoid it, which means we don't want her to be in any alliance, unless it's one that would somehow hobble her.


-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

@Varsoon: Please clarify how season finale alliances will work. Do all members involved need to submit the other two members names? If one of the members doesn't, does that mean no alliance will form?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Can we please keep snarky away from halfway to lynch until we're 100% the alliances are worked out? I'm pretty sure everyone involved has to be in accord, so I don't want peoples alliances to get fucked up because one member didn't understand what they had to do.

-Cerb

[farside22]

yes we agree, farside could go with kraska/fb if they want

This is where I'm going.
Rr: if all I was going to do was get into an alliance and blow it up for points, i'd done it with sky and nc.

[Almost50]

@Varsoon: Please clarify how season finale alliances will work. Do all members involved need to submit the other two members names? If one of the members doesn't, does that mean no alliance will form?

-Cerb

I've already asked this and got an answer, but it was relative to a certain hypothetical situation. I think it'd be better to let Varsoon explain the general procedure.

[Reasonably Rational]

yes we agree, farside could go with kraska/fb if they want

This is where I'm going.
Rr: if all I was going to do was get into an alliance and blow it up for points, i'd done it with sky and nc.

Farside, if you want there to be ANY chance you don't die tomorrow, we need you to claim details about this point thing.

How many you have.
How many you gain from lynch attempts.
How many you gain from being targeted.
How many you gain from dissolving alliances.
How many you need in order to achieve your win con.
How rhe extra voting thing works/what it costs you in points.

The reason why we can't trust you to not blow up an alliance is the fact that we don't know how far away from your win con you are now. Maybe the extra points weren't worth it then, but they're worth it now because you'll achieve your win con.

-Cerb

[mastin2]

By the way, yes, this is in fact the reason I've been so busy. (Art is hard.) And was what I was waiting eagerly for, and have been, all week. (Actually, since last Friday. I wanted October 1st to be October 8th. Creating mastina was one goal I had, but releasing that was the other.)

you're defending Farside when the Only thing pointing as town is how much of an ass she is.

There's SEVERAL reasons for farside to be town.
One, meta. This isn't her scumgame. These are all examples of her towngame. Active, stubborn. Repetitive, inefficient, blunt.
This shows her as scum. Lurks, reasonable, clear, efficient, and eloquent.

Two, analysis surrounding her. She isn't being treated like scum are.
Three, mindset.
I've been messing around all day in MD, so I'll just steal a quote from Vi.

More than anything else,

Mafia is a game of understanding people.

Not everyone with a given alignment will react the same way under certain circumstances. However, if you truly understand what goes on behind someone's eyeballs, you can figure out when and whether they're acting out of character. In other words, you believe in the supremacy of meta and will shrug off so-called "textbook scummy behavior" in favor of your insights into why people act the way they do.

You're looking at farside's viewpoint from the purely objective point of her actions being scummy.

But you're ignoring the why behind them.

And the why shows no scum motive, whatsoever. There's tons of scummy moves. There's tons of anti-town plays. Yes! I get it. She looks bad. But is she actually scum? What has she done that, actively, looks like it is meant to further her scum agenda? There's no plan behind her actions. There may be malevolence! There may be bitter hostilities! But where is the attempt to actively push a scum agenda? Nothing you've presented has given me an inkling of that.

None of her pushes make any iota of sense coming from scum. None of her actions make sense coming from scum, either. Her ability being loud means she can't deny being responsible for your failed action, but as scum, it'd make sense to claim the ascetic and get a free pass from any action whatsoever for the entire game. As scum, it'd make sense to claim the ascetic at the time people were asking for it. As scum, it would make sense for her to, thanks to not claiming, lie and said she blocked you.

This wouldn't have been an unreasonable stance to take! You weren't confirmed town at the time the block action would be submitted. So she could hide behind that, and claim she was scumreading you thus blocked you. She did not. She claimed it was an ascetic, the one thing that would make her look WORSE.

She has gone about things in an infuriatingly frustrating way. I get that. I want her to be scum, too, because the game's easier if she is.
But she's not. Pure and simple. A lynch on her isn't a scum lynch. It'd be a policy lynch. And I don't care what personality I have, policy lynching is something I will NEVER tolerate. (Mathblade was not policy, contrary to their claims.)

Also, let me ask you this.

What does a farside townflip tell us?

That she was being truthful about what she said?

We already know that! We've observed it first-hand. Everything she's said so far has been true, and she has absolutely no reason to lie as any alignment.

Farside is a shiny.
A really damn ANNOYING shiny.
The biggest fucking shiny ever, even larger than Firebringer could ever hope to be. (And you do see him deliberately trying.)
But a shiny that just so happens to be town.

Farside has, consistently, shown a mindset that is deliberately note helpful. Farside has, consistently, shown a mindset that is deliberately antagonistic. Farside has, consistently, deliberately been fighting you at every turn. You use that as evidence she's scum. But I submit it as the final proof she's town, because let me ask you this:

Do you honestly think farside, as scum, thinks she can control the game?
Do you honestly think farside, as scum, thinks that by engaging you with this level of consistency and hostility, she will save the rest of her scumteam?
Do you honestly think farside, as scum, deliberately sacrifices her own life?
Do you honestly believe farside, as scum, is spamming just for the sake of a smokescreen?

Because the answer for farside to be scum must be 'yes' on ALL of those, and for me, every single one of them, I scream NO.

Farside has been toxic to the game.
I get that.

But farside won't flip scum.

I think Kraska is the one providing content out of Kraska v shadow step. I don't get how you see shadow going why me and deflecting as townish.

You're gonna need to back that kraska point up, because I saw not a lick of deflection from Shadow. He perfectly answered everything that was brought to him, and if you're not satisfied, I can show it. He handled that interaction magnificently.

[DrippingGoofball]

We want DGB+TWIE to continue their alliance tomorrow

I can ally only once

[Reasonably Rational]

Hi mastin, farside lynch already happened and is tomorrow's battle to fight, your proposed lynch is being propelled forward, please look at the alliances situation and figure out where you're going to fit in.
-Cerb

Pedit: good to know DGB. So that whole bit needs to be reworked then.