Mini 1830 - Game Over

[gerryoat]

Victor you said you TR grendel's activity. but when I said the same thing about grendel, you said that it wasn't a good enough reason.

[gerryoat]

see, victor, the reason I think you're scum is because of all the contradictions about you. All the things you're saying I'm scummy for, I have given as responses to you. Yet you're saying the exact same thing I am. Yes, it's ok to be wrong about a read. But when you're pushing on a person for having the same reads on you. And then blame them for making YOU unvote, that's the reason people are thinking you're mafia.

[House]

gamma, one thing. If you scumread house, why are you trying to plead to him as if you know he's town?? Also being so willing to give into what he wants, just gives off the wrong vibes.

Hold your course and watch the magic happen.

[House]

gamma, one thing. If you scumread house, why are you trying to plead to him as if you know he's town?? Also being so willing to give into what he wants, just gives off the wrong vibes.

Gerry, look at yesterday.

I've proven that I can strongarm lynches people don't want.

I think that explains a lot.

[VictorDeAngelo]

I preferred a Square World lynch, it was a mistake. But I don't see how that makes me buddies with eager.

hahahahaha

It's funny cause this is his

EXACT

case on me. Yet, when I said that to him, he still said I was maf

You are skipping a lot of other stuff to try and oversimplify my case on you.

Victor you said you TR grendel's activity. but when I said the same thing about grendel, you said that it wasn't a good enough reason.

When did this happen?

see, victor, the reason I think you're scum is because of all the contradictions about you. All the things you're saying I'm scummy for, I have given as responses to you. Yet you're saying the exact same thing I am. Yes, it's ok to be wrong about a read. But when you're pushing on a person for having the same reads on you. And then blame them for making YOU unvote, that's the reason people are thinking you're mafia.

I'm not accusing of not responding at all, but I'll point out you haven't responded to everything. There is a difference. Your responses do not look good.

However, the more you misrepresent me for having the same reads as you the worse it looks. You've repeated tried to overstate this as if our read lists are identical. In fact the only scumread we agree on was square. I suspected you because the whole way you moved me off snake felt off.

Ironically enough, at the start of the day it wasn't even that strong a scumread. I looked through your ISO and saw someone on the peripheral whose interactions with snake made him a viable buddy. Your terrible reactions to my vote is really what convinced me your scum.

gamma, one thing. If you scumread house, why are you trying to plead to him as if you know he's town?? Also being so willing to give into what he wants, just gives off the wrong vibes.

Gerry, look at yesterday.

I've proven that I can strongarm lynches people don't want.

I think that explains a lot.

Before you get too cocky, weren't most people scumreading snake yesterday?

[House]

Before you get too cocky, weren't most people scumreading snake yesterday?

Nope.

I strongarmed his lynch with less than 24 hours on the clock, skipper.

[House]

And I don't believe in "too dumb for scum", so you might as well drop that ploy and try outsmarting me.

[VictorDeAngelo]

Before you get too cocky, weren't most people scumreading snake yesterday?

Nope.

I strongarmed his lynch with less than 24 hours on the clock, skipper.

I could look back and check. To be Frank, I kinda don't care enough to argue this point. You can have all the credit you want for the snake lynch.

And I don't believe in "too dumb for scum", so you might as well drop that ploy and try outsmarting me.

If you end up being scum, I'll give you a lot of credit post game. You had me fooled at the end of yesterday, and I'll be kicking myself post game.

If you're town, then god knows. I don't understand where you get that I'm trying to play dumb.

But I have no interest in playing games with you. You think I'm scum, make the fucking case already. Don't sheep Gerry, don't sheep Gamma,

show me why you think I'm scum.

Otherwise what else do you expect. Nothing Gamma says makes me scum. Nothing Gerry says makes me scum. The worse part is that I think both of those are likelier to be scum than you but every other post from you has been crap recently.

So come House, you want this lynch, you clearly have the time to post, stop trumping and start bringing something tangible to the table.

[Manuel87]

Spoiler:

(by the way, 1290 was a reaction test. I expected you to double down on your suspicions of me if you were town and accuse me of forcing a false dichotomy... You fail the test.
But by all means, continue your assault!)

I thought the same thing. That if he was town he'd actually scumread you more for that. But, he kinda looked like he was trying to worm himself out of a lynch and then vote the opposite person rather than himself.

So that makes three of us.
Gamma do you think House is scum or town now? i cant follow anymore.
VOTE: Gamma Emerald
for now i still think we lynch Gamma.

But even though i think you are scum you have one valid point in your case against Victor with the unvote on Eager.
@Victor: Why did you scumread House and Eager yesterday? Did you think there was a possibility that both of them are scum?

[Gamma Emerald]

I said before: while some of the things House has said do not sit well with me, I've decided to give him a pass because his play has been screaming town otherwise.

[VictorDeAngelo]

@Victor: Why did you scumread House and Eager yesterday? Did you think there was a possibility that both of them are scum?

Both reads were independent on one another. House's scumread was mostly based on Rhahz play. Rhahz seemed reluctant to either form reads or scumhunt as much I would expect a townie too. Eager's scumread was based a number of things, but originally I scumread him because his Gamma read felt off and his reaction to my vote on him was bad.

As for whether they could both be scum, I don't worry about teams Day 1. My three top reads of Square/House/EagerSnake were unlikely to be scum together but all had enough points against to be good day 1 lynches. During the day I did consider the possibility that House could be trying to distance himself from Snake to compensate for Rhahz's hard townread, but by the end of the Day I had abandoned the idea that House and Eager were buddies.

[Grendel]

Hmm... it looks like a lot of people started coming to the same conclusions I had a couple of days ago while rereading.

I don't know If I feel happy that people are seeing the game the way I am, or salty that I didn't get to lead people to the same conclusion.

I guess I'll never be vocal enough to be the leader. :/

Hold on-

[Gamma Emerald]

Yeah but you were vocal in NPBR dude.

[Gamma Emerald]

Also, how is the catch-up altogether?

[Grendel]

Also, how is the catch-up altogether?

I'm formatting it right now with spoilers.

Yeah but you were vocal in NPBR dude.

But I didn't get to lead a lynch on scum. I also died super early.

[Gamma Emerald]

Well yeah but you were a good leader.

[Grendel]

Spoiler: Gerryoat

My first thoughts on Gerryoat were not liking the start of his play this game. In particular how he refuses to consider anything before the fifth page as helpful in finding peoples alignments. He went on the restate this when I posted my analysis, (47 and 109). Then when I pointed out that me pulling reads out of what he called “nullness” would in fact be reason to suspect me. (167) He didn’t disagree, he even said that somebody posting in-depth reads using the first three pages of a mafia game is suspect, but he avoided calling me scummy for it. Instead he opted to stay on Rhazhbash because he was, “much worse”.

He then goes on to town read me while giving little back bone as to why. I later asked for more elaboration to this and his response was that he town read me because of what I had done up to that point. He does this without actually saying what I done that is townie. His town read on me is vague. Keeping me as his top town read most of D1 without directly saying what about me is town, (and no I’m not counting the” everything about you is town” thing), making that read look really contrived. It wasn’t until his read list at post 679 that he said it was mainly that my scum hunting looked genuine.

… BUT

I actually didn’t find his suspsions of Square to be bad though. Gerry could definite have been pushing that wagon with town intentions. Square read’s were riddled with contradictions. Which many people see as scummy, and can be scummy. (828 & 888). His scum read on victor today looks good too.

Looking into other games Gerry had played on site I think that he is likely town here. Looking at Machiavellian mafia I saw that Gerry is crazy good at distancing his scum buddies. TO the point that it looked like he was getting into a personal affront with his scum buddy Maria. The back an forth between Gerry and Victor at the start of the day look way too weak to be scum Gerry, and Victor. Gerry also doesn’t make sense with Gamma’s buddying yesterday. With Gerry not matching either proposed scum team I’d say he is town.

Spoiler: House

House: I wasn’t sure how I felt about widely scum read, lynch baity, Rhazhbash.

House looks pretty town. He is much more… crass in his interactions with people as town then as scum. Some of his interactions with Eager and Gamma look a lot like how House reacts to being scum read as town. Though I will admit that I'm operating off a small sample size, and I'm frankly nervous about trying to meta him like ever.

Also his reads are lining up a lot like mine are.

Spoiler: VictorDeAngelo

Glancing through Victor’s interactions with Eager yesterday-- Victor looks… like he is pulling Scum Theater with Eager. I mean he pushes Eager off and on throughout most of D1 then leaves the snake wagon for Square. If Victor is scum it would also explain why he would see his scum buddy making suspect posts way back at day start where others see derpy town, or non-AI derp play, given Victor would be in an informed position.

I also think that his would vote list in post 900 is bad in that none of those players have scum team chemistry together. Meanwhile he kept layers he seems to think is scummy on his “Not today” list, first one comes to mind is Gerry, but he didn’t seem to like Manuel much either looking back at (340).

Him blaming Gerry for the rivaling square wagon when Victor himself said he would prefer a Square lynch over Snake doesn’t make me feel any better about this slot. Why was Victor so happy to be on a wagon started by somebody he said was, “gives next to nothing on his scum reads… someone trying to not rock the boat.” (post 900 about Gerry). Also Why is Victor trying to shift blame away from himself? As town I typically acknowledge once I realize I made a bad choice instead of projecting my decisions onto another player. :/

Side note, I don’t think Victor and CCC would be scum together. Looking at 1086 Victor lays a town read at CCC’s feet right after CCC names him off as probscum. That plus the defenses of CCC earlier this game looks a bit like Victor is hoping to garner CCC’s trust. Which he wouldn’t need to do if they were both scum.

Can’t help but feel like this guy has been flying under my radar this game. He is actually a whole lot scummier then I originally thought.

Spoiler: Manuel

I think that Manuel is town. Aside from Eager’s push on Manuel, Manuel is also voting probscum Gamma. Meaning that Manuel would be casuelly tossing both buddies under the bus as scum. Manuel really doesn’t seem like the kind of scum player to pull those kind of shenanigans.
Pretty cut and dry.

Spoiler: Gamma

I’ve already said enough about Gamma honestly. His play this game has not been reflective of how he played as town. And the few things I expected town!Gamma to do, lots of early game nitpicking with other players, Gamma flexing town frustration, and Gamma trying his darnest to sort me early came out too weak, and/or too late. All and all I really don't see Gamma being town.

Spoiler: CCC

CCC is okay I guess. My gut really wants to town read him... but logically speak CCC has been pretty null. I guess if Victor is scum CCC would be good for town.

Spoiler: Hunteress

I haven’t been thrilled with her play thus far this game as she really hasn’t said much that stood out to me. But Huntress was among the first on the eager snake’s wagon, and stuck by Manuel at EoD. So I’m not inclined to think she is a scum lord, there are others that make much more sense as scum with eager.... well at least currently.

I meant to check her previous scum games to see how she buses, but didn't get around to it.

Spoiler: Jester

IDk about Jester. He has really fallen off the radar. And his last posts at 1262, and 1267 don’t tell me anything

Basically looking at:

Manuel, House, Gerry

CCC, Huntress, Jester,

Victor, Gamma

And my preferred lynch order would probably be starting at Gamma and working my way to Jester. Huntress could be a maybe depending on certain variables.

[Grendel]

Well yeah but you were a good leader.

-Help I have no idea how to accept praise-
thanks...

You never did post a reads list did you?

You should do that.

[House]

Spoiler:

(by the way, 1290 was a reaction test. I expected you to double down on your suspicions of me if you were town and accuse me of forcing a false dichotomy... You fail the test.
But by all means, continue your assault!)

I thought the same thing. That if he was town he'd actually scumread you more for that. But, he kinda looked like he was trying to worm himself out of a lynch and then vote the opposite person rather than himself.

So that makes three of us.
Gamma do you think House is scum or town now? i cant follow anymore.
VOTE: Gamma Emerald
for now i still think we lynch Gamma.

But even though i think you are scum you have one valid point in your case against Victor with the unvote on Eager.
@Victor: Why did you scumread House and Eager yesterday? Did you think there was a possibility that both of them are scum?

Gamma is town. Do try to keep up.

If you doubt me now, you will be a believer when Vic flips.

Follow the crowd, we're going to a magic show.

[CCC]

I can't be sure cuz I can't investigate. I'm feeling CCC or Victor though.

Where did the Victor scumread REALLY come from? Don't point at your failed reaction test. That post was reachy and bad.

Also, where did your suspicion of me go?

The scumread came from a re-ISO, which is how I almost always re-evaluate my reads. I still find some of your posts suspicious, but I'm giving you a pass. Half botd, half trusting your play.

What's "botd"?

[House]

Looking at 1086 Victor lays a town read at CCC’s feet right after CCC names him off as probscum.

That's textbook scum play dude.

[House]

I can't be sure cuz I can't investigate. I'm feeling CCC or Victor though.

Where did the Victor scumread REALLY come from? Don't point at your failed reaction test. That post was reachy and bad.

Also, where did your suspicion of me go?

The scumread came from a re-ISO, which is how I almost always re-evaluate my reads. I still find some of your posts suspicious, but I'm giving you a pass. Half botd, half trusting your play.

What's "botd"?

I googled it when he posted that, lol.

Benefit of the doubt would be my guess.

[House]

Everyone, remember when you were so convinced Manuel was scum and I was saying he was town and to lynch this other guy instead?

Remember what happened?

Let's do that again.

Gamma is town. Lynch Victor instead.

[CCC]

What's "botd"?

I googled it when he posted that, lol.

Benefit of the doubt would be my guess.

That makes sense, thanks.

[CCC]

Everyone, remember when you were so convinced Manuel was scum and I was saying he was town and to lynch this other guy instead?

Remember what happened?

Let's do that again.

Gamma is town. Lynch Victor instead.

Earlier you said that you know Gamma is scum. What happened to your scumread on him?