Mini 1830 - Game Over

[Grendel]

Snake I need to ask. What experience with Mafia do you have aside from EM?

Do you mind if I ask you your experience Rhazh?

Your play thus far reflects somebody who carries lots of ethos.

[CCC]

Do you ever read other games? There are garnteed to be games were scum was hung D1 for legitimate reasons.

I haven't seen any where scum was hung D1. I expect to find that, of newbie games (with two scum out of nine players), less than two in nine games have scum lynched on day one. (If the lynches were random, it would be two in nine, but by and large scum will usually try to get town lynched, and on day one I expect that to skew the ratio against Town).

I guess I am pessimistic about day one. Later days, when there's some decent info to work with, I consider far more useful.

[CCC]

In my previous post, I suggested that VictorDeAngelo and Gamma Emerald were pinging as very slightly scum. To that list I will now add GreenNope and Square World; the first for being completely absent, and the second for providing extremely short posts with no reasons for his votes. From these four, I will elect to park my vote (for the moment) on:

VOTE: Square World

How much scummier is Box World compared to Pokémon Remake Emerald, and Old Man Victor?

Also, stop self-metaing at the drop of a hat.

Insignificantly scummier. I have no significant reads at all.

Also, what do you mean by "self-metaing"?

[Manuel87]

@The_Jester: What are your thoughts on Grendel so far?
@Grendel: When you made your read on eagerSnake in 102 was that considering him being your buddy or was that a serious read on his play?

[RhazhBash]

Snake I need to ask. What experience with Mafia do you have aside from EM?

Do you mind if I ask you your experience Rhazh?

Your play thus far reflects somebody who carries lots of ethos.

Lots of off site experience. Around 18 games on my main site not including ones I replaced/flaked out of early. I don't play on this site much though. I've been playing Mafia for around a year now.

[VictorDeAngelo]

Do you ever read other games? There are garnteed to be games were scum was hung D1 for legitimate reasons.

I haven't seen any where scum was hung D1. I expect to find that, of newbie games (with two scum out of nine players), less than two in nine games have scum lynched on day one. (If the lynches were random, it would be two in nine, but by and large scum will usually try to get town lynched, and on day one I expect that to skew the ratio against Town).

I guess I am pessimistic about day one. Later days, when there's some decent info to work with, I consider far more useful.

It happens:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=60961

I'm sure there's more. That said games aren't won on day 1. What's important on day 1 is getting that everyone contributes to that all important first lynch. It doesn't have to be well informed (as town's don't have a lot of info) but it in itself provides info in later days.

If we get a scumflip today that's great. But if we get a townflip, oh well. You can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs. As long as players were some actively involved in said flips (i.e. who pushed, who defended etc) we can move forward.

However if we all sit around saying, day 1 is random, everything is null etc then we don't have anything to work off on Day 2. In fact I'd say that we simply quickly scum we no real discussion it would put us in a worse position that if we had a long day of arguments and competing wagons which resulted in a townflip.

[Gamma Emerald]

Yo, I'm currently reading postgame stuff for another game, so don't expect me to post for a while.

[Gamma Emerald]

Okay I'm finished with the other stuff now.

[gerryoat]

Wtf is up with all this meta?? Literally everyone has just been talking about meta for the last 2 pages. Focus on this game

[Gamma Emerald]

My Reads-
Town:

VictorDiAngelo

- His posting style is pretty refreshing, and after looking over his ISO, that comment about statements holding up isn’t that bad.

Grendel

- As said before, he doesn’t do this as scum, but he’s only been scum once on both sites he plays on, so I may be way off base here. I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt.

Manuel87

- He seems to be playing honestly.

Gerryoat

- He has been a voice of reason so far for this game.
Scum:

RhazhBash

- hasn’t really posted anything of substance other than 135, I feel.

CCC

- I mentioned the part about him being consistent on scumteam size as well, but here’s the interesting part: he attacked me for my comments about it. Got anything to say for yourself, bud?

EagerSnake

- He seems to be deflecting what people say quite a bit.
Null:

TheJester

- I’ve seen a mixture of Eager’s deflecting and Gerry’s being the voice of reason in this one.
Insufficient Participation:

GreenNope

- hasn’t posted once.

SquareWorld

- only posted twice, and they were small.

With all of this in mind, I think I know who I want to vote for.
VOTE: CCC

[Grendel]

@Grendel: When you made your read on eagerSnake in 102 was that considering him being your buddy or was that a serious read on his play?

I'm town reading him for humoring me.

Later today I'll reassess his slot, but he is town for now.

I wish he would be more interactive with me tho. Otherwise half this thing has been a waste of time.

Do you like/dislike anything else in 102?

[Grendel]

Also, what do you mean by "self-metaing"?

In the post right after 121 you referenced how you math in other games. And I think you did it a couple other times this game to. By "it" I mean you have said, "Well I do that all the time so its not AI" in response to accusations. I don't like that because it doesn't refute the argument so much as it lampshades it. Lamp shading a problem doesn't make it go away. Saying you do something as either alignment doesn't make you town.

[Grendel]

@GerryOat

Grendel, I'll say it again, i don't see how you get all those reads in 3 pages of pretty much nullness.

If I got reads from nothing but "nullness" then that should be a reason to suspect me right?

If it is for you then push me. This game needs more clashing.

No response?

[Grendel]

Gerryoat

- He has been a voice of reason so far for this game.

Would like to know why you feel that way. I really don't see how he has been particularly insightful.

So far Gerry did:
-Greeted other ppl he knew from EM.
-Insisted all reads formed before page 4 are garbage.
-set up spec.
- Questioned one, (Rashbash), count em'

one

person's vote.

I'm not seeing anything productive from his Iso. Gerry is null at best. :/

[Gamma Emerald]

Okay.
Null - Gerry (seems reasonable, but hasn't really added much yet.)

I mainly said that because he diffused everyone's getting up in arms about your reads.

[Grendel]

You are avoiding conflict with me.

Why?

[Gamma Emerald]

I realized you had a point.

[gerryoat]

@GerryOat

Grendel, I'll say it again, i don't see how you get all those reads in 3 pages of pretty much nullness.

If I got reads from nothing but "nullness" then that should be a reason to suspect me right?

If it is for you then push me. This game needs more clashing.

No response?

sorry, I missed this somehow. Yes, I understand that you can get reads that way, but you have to look at it from my point of view. Some guy just randomly puts out a list of reads only 3 pages into with only "reactionary" votes. It just doesn't seem legit and seems like they are trying to look townie, instead of actually worried about getting the reads correctly. Which is why I'm just weary of it right now. I never said I hard scumread you or anything for it, which is why my vote stays where it is.

[gerryoat]

Okay.
Null - Gerry (seems reasonable, but hasn't really added much yet.)

I mainly said that because he diffused everyone's getting up in arms about your reads.

I like how that's all it takes for you to change your read on me. But, I actually agree with him. I was actually going to ask you why you TR me, cause I haven't done anything so far that would warrant a townread so far.

[gerryoat]

I kinda like Grendel trying to get "conflict" in the game, which in a sense is how you get reads more. So I do slightly tr that from him. But his actions and his words are a bit off right now. He says this game needs more conflict, but he already laid out a list of reads. Why does he keep saying this game needs more conflict when he already has a list of reads 3 pages in.

[Grendel]

You are avoiding conflict with me.

Why?

idk man, I just feel like you've been tip toeing around me most this game. Your also not trying to fight my scum read on you. I just don't expect this passiveness from you if you were town. Yet... you are in a lot of games... so I can't really tell if your too stretched to bother. eeeehhhhh-

Going off you read list your proposing a RhazbashxCCCxSnake scum team. Is their any chemistry between them going off their posts this game?

I kinda like Grendel trying to get "conflict" in the game, which in a sense is how you get reads more. So I do slightly tr that from him. But his actions and his words are a bit off right now. He says this game needs more conflict, but he already laid out a list of reads. Why does he keep saying this game needs more conflict when he already has a list of reads 3 pages in.

That list of reads doesn't include you, Rhazh, Square, Victor, or soon to be replaced Green Nope. I still have more ppl to sort lol. And even then people I put I my reads can be subject to change.

How are your reads doing? You can leave out the nulls. Give me your towns and scums.

[Gamma Emerald]

You are avoiding conflict with me.

Why?

idk man, I just feel like you've been tip toeing around me most this game. Your also not trying to fight my scum read on you. I just don't expect this passiveness from you if you were town. Yet... you are in a lot of games... so I can't really tell if your too stretched to bother. eeeehhhhh-

I am kinda stretched, but I'm also putting precedence in games I feel are more pressing. This one is kinda on the low end, but it's not on the bottom.

[qoute]Going off you read list your proposing a RhazbashxCCCxSnake scum team. Is their any chemistry between them going off their posts this game?.[/quote]
Not sure about RhazhBash, but both Eager and CCC attacked me for my attempt at setup spec.

[Gamma Emerald]

Looking over RhazhBash's ISO again, I found something that I feel could be distancing between RhazhBash and EagerSnake, with an attempt to attack me as well.

[Grendel]

Yeah, if I'm the one leading the "activity overview" then the game

is really moving slow

imo

Usually my post count is just below the average. But this game I've been consistently topping everybody's post count.

Anyway

Not sure about RhazhBash, but both Eager and CCC attacked me for my attempt at setup spec.

That is interesting. I'll have to look into that later.

My eyes glazed over originally when Snake brought up set up spec, and I didn't pay much attention to that desscusion. D1 set up spec is not a good use of time, plus I find it kinda dull.

I did like when Snake talked about hypothetical scum team forming. Now that's fun.

Looking over RhazhBash's ISO again, I found something that I feel could be distancing between RhazhBash and EagerSnake, with an attempt to attack me as well.

Quote and explain pls

[Gamma Emerald]

The page 3 stuff between Snake and Gamma is 100% fluff. I don't see how Victor can be scumreading snake for it either. Regardless I don't see it as alignment indicative.

Also a huge pet peeve of mine is when people waste too much time on setup spec. Setup spec won't win Town the game, so quit it and start posting some real content.

Grendel, this is what I was talking about. It's a strange way to distance, to be sure, but it kinda looks like distancing. And I do acknowledge that he mentioned me too, but that could have been an attack on me, or an attempt to group me in with Eager.